Ideas on roleplay ideas without main storyline & settlements?

[NNS10]

One of the big problems with FO4 is how the main storyline is tightly related to a lot of other major quest lines (e.g. 3/4 of the factions). There are still a lot of places I haven't gotten to (mostly the southern part of the map), but it didn't seem like there was much to do outside of the main story and faction quests, aside from pretty boring radiant quests that you could occasionally get from settlers (and I don't want to play with settlements either).

 

For people that have been playing this longer than me, what roleplay ideas are possible in FO4, if we try to avoid the main storyline and the settlement system?

 

 

[spoonsinger]

Collecting children's toys and placing them in a purpose built 'nursery' in a settlement. Ideally you have to play this as a mousy neurotic women who doesn't find their son.

[Veladarius]

Exploring and finding all of the sad stories and scenes of peoples last moments, a lot of it is pretty grim. I have found scenes where someone hung themselves (skeleton still hanging there), another that shot themselves in the head, person with a toaster in the bathtub. The other is finding all of the teddy bears set up in scenes, those are the one bit of humor in the game. I mainly like to collect all the power armor strewn across the Commonwealth and having a mod that lets me make the armor parts for them means I get a nice collection of them. Stealing them from some of the locations while the bandits / gunners are not using it can be challenge at times. I use the Personal Vertibird mod so I don't have to walk all the way back home with it either.

[phillout]

I played FO4 for a couple of months, and I'm already out of ideas. The problem is exactly the one you've described - everything is tied into the MQ, and faction exists only for the purpose of participating in the MQ. I also tried playing a raider of Nuka World, just to realize that I was supposed to play for Minutemen first and then turn my settlements to raiders (you can't set up an outpost in place without settlers). And TBF baby-sitting raiders is as exciting and RP-rich as baby-sitting settlers. I've also installed the mod I liked so much in Skyrim - Interesting NPCs - for FO4, just to discover that it has nothing to do with the Skyrim version. Maybe it would become more interesting at some point, but it starts as a bunch of "go there - kill that" quests. which is disappointing. It seems no matter what you're planning to do, the game railroads you into MQ where you play a role of Nate or Nora looking for their son. Unless you're okay with endlessly running around looting ruins and killing stuff.

 

On 2/23/2018 at 1:57 AM, Veladarius said:

Exploring and finding all of the sad stories and scenes of peoples last moments

...is not a role-play, sorry.

 

Role-play is, essentially, writing your own story. Not reading the stories. 

[Guest]

I liked the raider DLC so much (Sorry, I just LOVE playing as the bad guys) that I constructed my entire headcanon around my character being a raider, and just ignored the main questline lol

[phillout]

20 hours ago, Norraya said:

I liked the raider DLC so much (Sorry, I just LOVE playing as the bad guys) that I constructed my entire headcanon around my character being a raider, and just ignored the main questline lol

First, raider storyline is still centered around building settlements, just of a different type. 

 

Second, I've tried playing a raider character too - I didn't bother building settlements, like any of them (except my own base at Red Rocket) until I started Nuka World. Only to discover that 1) I can't establish raider outposts at settlements that aren't populated (like Starline Drive-In or my own base at Red Rocket), I need to bully someone in order to establish an outpost (FFS, really?) 2) I can't improve vassal settlements to increase their population and production. I'm under impression that the DLC is supposed to be started only after completing the Minutemen quests. The idea that I have to build settlements first and then turn on everyone and start raiding them sounds really weird to me, to put it mildly.

 

And third, it felt pointless. No matter how many outposts you establish, it doesn't change anything. You can't use Raiders faction to finish the game, for example - you still have to work with one of the main factions. So what you do? Join BoS? Join the-best-friends-of-synth SJWs? Or maybe you go back to Preston, like "Oh, dude, I know I pissed you off, but let's work together, okay?". Which one of those defines a "bad guy"?

[Invictusblade]

well there are more than a few quest mods on nexus such as Fusion City Rising, Outcasts And Remnants, Maxwell's World. personally i consider this game as a spreadsheet game with breaking the games with mods and then getting them to work

[phillout]

3 hours ago, Invictaxe said:

well there are more than a few quest mods on nexus such as Fusion City Rising, Outcasts And Remnants, Maxwell's World. personally i consider this game as a spreadsheet game with breaking the games with mods and then getting them to work

So how much RP value those mods add? Fusion City Rising is a corridor shooter (at least it was for all those 6 or more levels I got through before I got bored and quit), and getting it tied into the Railroad HQ.... why? Maxwell's World is a horror survival mod. 

 

Quest mods are not RP mods. Quest mods add more content to be consumed. A RP mod would be the one, for example, to allow you to RP the Institute scientist w/o touching the MQ. Or RP a BoS soldier w/o touching the main quest and not just run endless radiant quests for the recon team. Or RP Nick's partner, another detective, w/o touching the MQ. The game, as an RPG is supposed to do, should react in some way to your choices and either punish you or reward you in the process. 

[NNS10]

4 hours ago, phillout said:

So how much RP value those mods add? Fusion City Rising is a corridor shooter (at least it was for all those 6 or more levels I got through before I got bored and quit), and getting it tied into the Railroad HQ.... why? Maxwell's World is a horror survival mod. 

 

Quest mods are not RP mods. Quest mods add more content to be consumed. A RP mod would be the one, for example, to allow you to RP the Institute scientist w/o touching the MQ. Or RP a BoS soldier w/o touching the main quest and not just run endless radiant quests for the recon team. Or RP Nick's partner, another detective, w/o touching the MQ. The game, as an RPG is supposed to do, should react in some way to your choices and either punish you or reward you in the process. 

Well said. Content is one thing but roleplay freedom is another. I'm not even looking for a reactive world (even Skyrim was lacking there). I just want to be able to play FO4 without being forced to do the main quest or faction quests. The problem is FO4 ties all the content into the MQ and faction quests.

 

I think that's why quest mods were mentioned earlier (more content). Unfortunately those are also very specific. Not interested in Maxwell's world since it's a horror mod. As for Fusion City Rising... initially I was a bit optimistic since it was a large new worldspace that could potentially have some roleplay potential. Unfortunately it turned out to be pretty restrictive. Just to access the city, you need to do a quest. And to get the quest, you have to join the Railroad faction to access the quest giving NPC.

[phillout]

I think I've got an idea of working RP. Talking about Nick inspired me to check. And yes, it is possible to make it work. You need at least two mods - Start Me Up (alternate start) and Enter The Brotherhood  - the latter is here to essentially stop Prydwen from spawning.

 

You can start anywhere (even near Diamond City), but I'd still recommend starting near Red Rocket for Dogmeat and a good home with all vanilla crafting - and level 10 to boot, since you aren't doing any start routine, you don't get initial XP from Minutemen etc, and you don't want to be facing Triggermen at level 3-4. I use Underground Railroad to travel fast between discovered key points. so its location is not an issue (Diamond City's station is near the entrance). Now you can go to Diamond City, Valentine's agency, talk to Ellie and get hired to save her boss. After Nick returns, he asks you a weird question "tell me everything" and - that is - your first case is on the table behind his chair. 

 

Now the main part of the RP element - you can either choose to stay away from the MQ at all and just go for the cases, but I'd still go and finish the Kellogg's chase. Reason is - Nick won't be available as a companion otherwise and Far Harbor won't start. So the back story of your character would be someone who has some history with Kellogg - maybe he killed someone who was dear to you, or maybe you're an NCR ranger chasing him all the way from the West. That's why Nick says you're his only enemy left alive. To start Kellogg's chase, go back to the Vault (maybe Nick tipped you on a location to check), find a body and a holotape - and listen to it. Report to Nick, and then you finish chasing your arch-enemy. Start Me Up, fortunately, changes the dialogs if you don't start at the vault, so no mention of Shaun or you being a parent anywhere.

 

Now you've got Nick as a companion - you still get the scene at his office with him and Piper, but you may just take him with you and don't go to GN (but if you dismiss Nick, I guess he goes there and to get him back you have to go all that "memories" BS). You've got cases and Far Harbor is available too. 

 

 

[NNS10]

12 hours ago, phillout said:

I think I've got an idea of working RP. Talking about Nick inspired me to check. And yes, it is possible to make it work. You need at least two mods - Start Me Up (alternate start) and Enter The Brotherhood  - the latter is here to essentially stop Prydwen from spawning.

 

You can start anywhere (even near Diamond City), but I'd still recommend starting near Red Rocket for Dogmeat and a good home with all vanilla crafting - and level 10 to boot, since you aren't doing any start routine, you don't get initial XP from Minutemen etc, and you don't want to be facing Triggermen at level 3-4. I use Underground Railroad to travel fast between discovered key points. so its location is not an issue (Diamond City's station is near the entrance). Now you can go to Diamond City, Valentine's agency, talk to Ellie and get hired to save her boss. After Nick returns, he asks you a weird question "tell me everything" and - that is - your first case is on the table behind his chair. 

 

Now the main part of the RP element - you can either choose to stay away from the MQ at all and just go for the cases, but I'd still go and finish the Kellogg's chase. Reason is - Nick won't be available as a companion otherwise and Far Harbor won't start. So the back story of your character would be someone who has some history with Kellogg - maybe he killed someone who was dear to you, or maybe you're an NCR ranger chasing him all the way from the West. That's why Nick says you're his only enemy left alive. To start Kellogg's chase, go back to the Vault (maybe Nick tipped you on a location to check), find a body and a holotape - and listen to it. Report to Nick, and then you finish chasing your arch-enemy. Start Me Up, fortunately, changes the dialogs if you don't start at the vault, so no mention of Shaun or you being a parent anywhere.

 

Now you've got Nick as a companion - you still get the scene at his office with him and Piper, but you may just take him with you and don't go to GN (but if you dismiss Nick, I guess he goes there and to get him back you have to go all that "memories" BS). You've got cases and Far Harbor is available too. 

 

 

I thought the cases are finite.

 

Since we're sharing mods, I found Public Works Maintenance (Main Quest Shortcut) to be really useful. If you want to get into the Institute really quickly without having to trudge through all the main quest stuff, that mod basically condenses all the required main quest triggers into one area. All of Kellog's stuff (the intercom and the fight) occurs in a room within the Public Works Maintenance area. There's also a courser there (to satisfy the courser hunt quest). After you defeat them, there is a radio that plays the Prydwen entrance sequence. Bam, that takes you to the end of Act 2. No need to talk to go through Nick's stuff, no need to lockpick into Kellog's apartment in Diamond City, no need to follow dogmeat across the Commonwealth to sniff out Kellog's whereabouts, no need to do that super long maze in Fort Hagen, no memory den crap, and no chasing a courser.

[phillout]

6 hours ago, nanashi50 said:

I thought the cases are finite.

 

Since we're sharing mods, I found Public Works Maintenance (Main Quest Shortcut) to be really useful. If you want to get into the Institute really quickly without having to trudge through all the main quest stuff, that mod basically condenses all the required main quest triggers into one area. All of Kellog's stuff (the intercom and the fight) occurs in a room within the Public Works Maintenance area. There's also a courser there (to satisfy the courser hunt quest). After you defeat them, there is a radio that plays the Prydwen entrance sequence. Bam, that takes you to the end of Act 2. No need to talk to go through Nick's stuff, no need to lockpick into Kellog's apartment in Diamond City, no need to follow dogmeat across the Commonwealth to sniff out Kellog's whereabouts, no need to do that super long maze in Fort Hagen, no memory den crap, and no chasing a courser.

Of course, they are finite. The only way of making an infinite number of quests is providing a player with randomly generated radiant quests. I'd say, the bigger problem with them is that it's just too few of them. A couple of them, in fact - if you don't count Far Harbor. But there is also Covenant, and some other side quests that fit the role of a detective quite well. Any RP story will be finite. Just as any book or story.

 

The mod is surely nice, it's probably how it should have been from the beginning, IMO. But the problem with the Institute is that the only character that makes sense for the Institute is the one who is Shaun's parent - I've tried playing an alternative character with Start Me Up and was bombarded by signals how important, special etc I am, how glad they are to see me there from the beginning. And then you become the director not because you achieved something but because you are a relative of its current director. It's so stupid it hurts and is a big difference with the way Beth made factions in Skyrim (you start as a junior member and slowly rise all the way to the top). A very unfortunate one. 

 

edit: You simply can't have an epic play-though in-character in that game. I mean, in Skyrim you could start the game as a DB assassin, go through DB line, Thieves Guild line, even touch the one of College, complete the MQ, DG and DB - and all that while keeping character's consistency. 

[NNS10]

17 hours ago, phillout said:

The mod is surely nice, it's probably how it should have been from the beginning, IMO. But the problem with the Institute is that the only character that makes sense for the Institute is the one who is Shaun's parent - I've tried playing an alternative character with Start Me Up and was bombarded by signals how important, special etc I am, how glad they are to see me there from the beginning. And then you become the director not because you achieved something but because you are a relative of its current director. It's so stupid it hurts and is a big difference with the way Beth made factions in Skyrim (you start as a junior member and slowly rise all the way to the top). A very unfortunate one. 

 

edit: You simply can't have an epic play-though in-character in that game. I mean, in Skyrim you could start the game as a DB assassin, go through DB line, Thieves Guild line, even touch the one of College, complete the MQ, DG and DB - and all that while keeping character's consistency. 

Agreed. FO4 is fundamentally flawed and all mods can do is tweak around the corners to fix the questing issue.

[dagobaking]

On 4/8/2018 at 2:39 PM, nanashi50 said:

Well said. Content is one thing but roleplay freedom is another. I'm not even looking for a reactive world (even Skyrim was lacking there). I just want to be able to play FO4 without being forced to do the main quest or faction quests. The problem is FO4 ties all the content into the MQ and faction quests.

 

I'm wanting to understand your perspective better because I've had some ideas that I think are around this subject.

 

You write that content is not the issue for roleplaying. But, then you also write that the problem is not being able to access content without playing a certain role.

 

So, wouldn't that mean that content like new quests that you can do without doing the MQ would solve the issue?

 

It sounds like what you are saying is not that you want more role play ability. But, that you specifically want to roleplay certain content/characters from the MQ...?

[Kit Kitten]

Bethesda's Fallout games in general (both 3 and 4) seem closer to a JRPG in a few places, with a set protagonist (even if you can customize gender / appearance) and a set story that it pushes you along to follow. They try to create a story with some sort of emotional impact and depth (but fall short cause bad writing) and attach you to their version of the story with at most a basic "choose your own adventure" book level of alternate endings to what is essentially the same story.

 

That said, since the writing is pretty shit, I find myself more than capable of ignoring it and doing my own thing, exploring the waste, scavenging supplies, and building settlements (I love building though). What has helped me stay entertained and keep track of my own story has been a small simple mod I found a while back called Journal of the Sole Survivor - Personal Journal which lets me write journal entries as the name might imply. 

[NNS10]

23 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

You write that content is not the issue for roleplaying. But, then you also write that the problem is not being able to access content without playing a certain role.

 

So, wouldn't that mean that content like new quests that you can do without doing the MQ would solve the issue?

 

It sounds like what you are saying is not that you want more role play ability. But, that you specifically want to roleplay certain content/characters from the MQ...?

Opposite of that. The issue is most of the game's content requires being FORCED to play the role of Nora/Nate. There is no freedom to roleplay there. The player may be able to change the appearance and name of the character, but you're still playing the story of Nora/Nate.

 

17 hours ago, Buddy42 said:

Bethesda's Fallout games in general (both 3 and 4) seem closer to a JRPG in a few places, with a set protagonist (even if you can customize gender / appearance) and a set story that it pushes you along to follow.

Agreed, but the background of the character in the older games was less specific. It was more about the people around the character rather than the character itself, so there were less constraints.

 

In FO3, the Lone Wanderer's father disappears from the vault and the Lone Wanderer goes to investigate. Everyone has a father. Father disappears. None of that restricts much of the Lone Wanderer's traits. A lot of character can be left to the imagination and crafted through roleplay.

 

In FONV, the Courier gets shot by someone but survives and then sets out to find and confront the shooter. Again, that leaves a lot about the character open-ended and free to be defined by the player during roleplay. Additionally, the game opens up a lot after that.

 

FO4 however is the complete opposite. A lot of key things about the character is defined. Player character (PC) is married. PC is an Army Vet (if male) or lawyer (if female). PC has a kid named Shaun. PC's spouse is murdered. PC's kid is kidnapped. The PC's backstory is essentially defined and there's not much left to the imagination that can be crafted by the player. Even if you try to pretend none of that happened (via the Start Me Up mod), the main quest is entirely tied to Nate/Nora's backstory. You rescue Nick Valentine because to get help finding the PC's son, Shaun. You track down Kellogg because he kidnapped Shaun and killed the PC's spouse. The PC expresses hatred toward Kellogg for that reason as well. After finding Shuan, the rest of the game is about either siding with the PC's son or not. And if you side with Shaun, the PC becomes the next director simply because the PC is Shaun's parent.

 

The entire main quest line is tied to the PC's backstory, which Bethesda also defined very clearly. Both aspects of that are a departure from prior FO games Bethesda made.

 

[phillout]

17 hours ago, Buddy42 said:

That said, since the writing is pretty shit, I find myself more than capable of ignoring it and doing my own thing, exploring the waste, scavenging supplies, and building settlements (I love building though). 

That's fine, but it's just not role-playing. At least not in a traditional western meaning of RP. 

 

I don't think anyone would argue the idea that the game can be enjoyable - at least to some people. I personally decided to remove the game from my HD, but that's my personal matter. What is not personal, I guess, is the notion that the game can not be classified as an RPG anymore. It's a good simulation game, with combat, building, etc. It's closer to Minecraft or, just as you mentioned, to jRPG (which is a totally different genre). The fact that people can imagine doing something or being someone while playing it doesn't make it an RPG - just as me imagining actually shooting stuff or flying planes while playing Civilization doesn't make it a first-person shooter or a flight simulator. It just doesn't have a proper game mechanics to be classified as one.

[dagobaking]

45 minutes ago, nanashi50 said:

Opposite of that. The issue is most of the game's content requires being FORCED to play the role of Nora/Nate. There is no freedom to roleplay there. The player may be able to change the appearance and name of the character, but you're still playing the story of Nora/Nate.

 

If you play added quests from mods, they can be content unrelated to Nora/Nate. The MQ can even be largely removed from the game like FROST.

[phillout]

2 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

If you play added quests from mods, they can be content unrelated to Nora/Nate. The MQ can even be largely removed from the game like FROST.

As if FROST is a role-playing overhaul.

 

You'd do  yourself a favor by reading the topic before commenting, it's not that long. The difference between quest mods, survival mods and role-playing has been explained here already.

[dagobaking]

2 hours ago, phillout said:

As if FROST is a role-playing overhaul.

 

You'd do  yourself a favor by reading the topic before commenting, it's not that long. The difference between quest mods, survival mods and role-playing has been explained here already.

 

That is a pretty rude way to put it. I don't think that I wrote anything to deserve that.

 

FROST does not need to be a role-playing overhaul in order to remove MQ content to free up more sensible RP scenarios.

[phillout]

6 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

That is a pretty rude way to put it. I don't think that I wrote anything to deserve that.

 

FROST does not need to be a role-playing overhaul in order to remove MQ content to free up more sensible RP scenarios.

If you reply to a topic without reading it - don't be complain about people being "ride" - or rather direct - to you. You do deserve this because you write about things already discussed here. You disrespect people by ignoring everything that was written and insisting on having everything explained to you personally yet again - why do you expect people behaving in a respectful manner?

[dagobaking]

6 hours ago, phillout said:

If you reply to a topic without reading it - don't be complain about people being "ride" - or rather direct - to you. You do deserve this because you write about things already discussed here. You disrespect people by ignoring everything that was written and insisting on having everything explained to you personally yet again - why do you expect people behaving in a respectful manner?

 

phillout needs to chillout.

 

Your premise is false. I did read the topic from top to bottom. Nothing that I wrote indicates that I did not or that I do not know what RP is.

 

Furthermore, you wrote:

 

Quote

The problem is exactly the one you've described - everything is tied into the MQ, and faction exists only for the purpose of participating in the MQ.

 

From the FROST page:

 

Quote

FROST is a hardcore total conversion mod set in the years following the Great War of 2077 that aims to eliminate all vanilla quests and NPCs to create a freeform survival experience.

 

In FROST, the goal is not to complete quests and join factions.

 

FROST directly addresses what you yourself said was "the" problem.

 

You have zero basis to give me any attitude. But, if it is that important to you to act like you have a PHD in RP and nobody can have different opinions about games, go right ahead! Rock on with that!

[phillout]

3 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

phillout needs to chillout.

 

FROST directly addresses what you yourself said was "the" problem.

 

You have zero basis to give me any attitude. But, if it is that important to you to act like you have a PHD in RP and nobody can have different opinions about games, go right ahead! Rock on with that!

Look, it's not a rocket science, something requiring PHD, and it's not hard to understand.

 

FROST removes the MQ, but you could ignore the MQ in the base game just the same. Problem is - neither of those make it an RPG. 

 

 

To be classified as RPG, the game needs to have some RP mechanics. You perform actions -and the game responds to them in a way RPG supposed to do. If a game doesn't have it - it's not RPG. 

 

If you ignore the MQ by removing it somehow  (there are many ways, FROST is just one of them) - the game stops responding to your character development and choices. Because there is nothing else in the game to respond to your RP actions. I'm not saying MQ has a lot of it, but still. The only thing I can think of is Nuka World - where you have a choice of siding with raiders (and go building settlements - sorry, "outposts" - for them), or side with traders and kill all raiders. Not much of a choice either. And killing raiders doesn't have any consequences either - you kill them and merchants still stand around on the market in collars. 

 

And what choices with consequences does FROST add?

[dagobaking]

1 hour ago, phillout said:

Look, it's not a rocket science, something requiring PHD, and it's not hard to understand.

 

FROST removes the MQ, but you could ignore the MQ in the base game just the same. Problem is - neither of those make it an RPG. 

 

 

To be classified as RPG, the game needs to have some RP mechanics. You perform actions -and the game responds to them in a way RPG supposed to do. If a game doesn't have it - it's not RPG. 

 

If you ignore the MQ by removing it somehow  (there are many ways, FROST is just one of them) - the game stops responding to your character development and choices. Because there is nothing else in the game to respond to your RP actions. I'm not saying MQ has a lot of it, but still. The only thing I can think of is Nuka World - where you have a choice of siding with raiders (and go building settlements - sorry, "outposts" - for them), or side with traders and kill all raiders. Not much of a choice either. And killing raiders doesn't have any consequences either - you kill them and merchants still stand around on the market in collars. 

 

And what choices with consequences does FROST add?

 

I think that you have a strong sense of what you want to get from an RPG. And that is ok. It just doesn't mean that any RPG that doesn't do it the way you like isn't an RPG.

 

As I pointed out earlier, there are many mods that add quests, different ways for the game to respond, changes to factions, etc. None of them related to the MQ. It may not be the RP experience you prefer. But, with the help of mods, it can be an RP experience very different than the vanilla game nonetheless.

 

[And FROST doesn't need to add choices in order for it to address the problem you pointed out: removing hooks into the MQ.]

[NNS10]

28 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

[And FROST doesn't need to add choices in order for it to address the problem you pointed out: removing hooks into the MQ.]

I'll be more constructive here and not argue about what mechanics an RPG needs have, because even Skyrim wasn't very reactive, so I'll take anything that gives more freedom in FO4.

 

But here is a serious question: what does FROSTFALL add? I understand it's hardcore survival and takes out the MQ, but what are you supposed to do? If it's just surviving, I can't say I'd get much enjoyment from that. And more importantly I can already play without touching the MQ via Start Me Up. The problem is (as mentioned in the first post), there isn't much left to do when you take out the MQ. Is FROSTFALL any different in that regard?