theposhmudcrab Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Can minor/lesser Daedra go independent? leave their Daedric realm and prince and do whatever they want? Imagine a Dremora, Dark Seducer or Golden Saint that decides one day to go adventure and stop working for their Daedric prince, can something like this happen?
Slorm Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 It depends on what you're asking. If you mean lore wise, then I don't see any reason why not as Daadra are representative of the forces of Chaos so I'm sure some of the lesser ones might "freelance" so to speak if they can escape or be summoned from their realm in Oblivion. If you mean mods, I don't know of any myself but a search on nexus but yield some results
theposhmudcrab Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Slorm said: It depends on what you're asking. If you mean lore wise, then I don't see any reason why not as Daadra are representative of the forces of Chaos so I'm sure some of the lesser ones might "freelance" so to speak if they can escape or be summoned from their realm in Oblivion. I was asking lore wise. I saw a whole bunch of mods that make humanoid Daedra playable, and wondered how lore friendly would it be to role play as one that simply decided to leave their realm and do his/her own thing. I was also thinking about the possibility of a lore friendly Daedra companion that went independent, looking to explore the world beyond their home-realm.
chaimhewast Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Velehk Sain might be a good reference - a pirate captain Dremora. Aside from the events of ESO, he seems pretty independent.
mercplatypus Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Quite a few varieties of Daedra are not bound to any Daedric Prince.
Lodakai Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Imagination has no bounds. A vampire follower of Stendar that summons fire atronachs is possible given the right backstory =p
Ernest Lemmingway Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 Daedra aren't necessarily bound to any given Daedric Prince. Some serve one or the other because their natures mesh well or because they dwell in the same plane in Oblivion and are recruited by the resident Prince. Others are free agents doing whatever they want. So, yes, playable daedric race mods are lore-friendly. There's also no real consensus on what types of daedra officially do/do not exist. If it can be imagined, chances are it or something like it exists somewhere in TES.
arpaschad Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 a companion question to "freelance daedra" above: if some daedra can go their own way and do stuff like being a pirate captain or whatever that means they can procreate as well?...but we don't see any half daedra-mer or daedra-human kids... might be nice if the ES universe can have their own version of D&Ds Tieflings... also we talked about minor Daedra...but are there minor Aedra? inb4 Elder Scrolls turns into another Diablo clone...lol...
Ernest Lemmingway Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 50 minutes ago, arpaschad said: if some daedra can go their own way and do stuff like being a pirate captain or whatever that means they can procreate as well?...but we don't see any half daedra-mer or daedra-human kids... might be nice if the ES universe can have their own version of D&Ds Tieflings... also we talked about minor Daedra...but are there minor Aedra? Again, there's no official answer either way. It could be there are half-daedra or those descended from daedra out there. They've just never appeared as "official" monsters or characters in any of the games. There might be mods and I'm pretty sure fan fiction has a few but I've never really looked. The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages has the best collection of information. No, there are no minor Aedra. The original Eight Divines are the only real Aedra ever mentioned, aside from some crystalline statues of creatures called "Earthbones" in screens of what looks like ESO on the wiki and references in in-game books like The Annotated Annuad.
ppp Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 The biggest problem is Daedra are not able to travel to Mundus without being summoned. Martin Septim's sacrifice restored and strengthened the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion. Except for Sanguine, apparently. (Spoilers for a quest in Skyrim). Supposedly the Daedra are incapable of reproducing, even though some appear as distinctly male or female, so I'm not sure how lore-friendly the half-daedra idea is. IIRC, Vivec claims otherwise in one of his sermons in Morrowind, but he's an unreliable narrator at best. The creation story is fairly complex. As I understand it, the Earthbones are Aedra that could not or would not maintain individuality when Mundus was created and effectively became the physical laws. Alteration is the magic of convincing them to make exceptions for you. Other Aedra are said to have become the living things of the world, so in a way, all playable characters are Aedra, albeit much changed from their original forms. The Altmer believe Mundus is a prison and some are actively seeking to reclaim what they see as their stolen divinity, whatever the cost. (I'm pretty sure at least some of that was written by an author named Michael Kirkbride, who was responsible for much/most of Morrowind's more trippy lore. He's no longer with Bethesda, but some of his work is still being referenced, so his other stuff is of questionable, but possible, canonicity.)
Ernest Lemmingway Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Daedra actually can travel to Mundus without being summoned. They need the aid of a Daedric Prince or an Oblivion Gate but it is possible. Not all the Gates were closed (or opened) by the Oblivion Crisis. That would mean half-daedra or daedra-descended were rarer than other races but that's par for the course with any race of supernatural origins. Then who's to say that these races don't already exist on some Plane of Oblivion or continents other than Tamriel? There are still established races that haven't been detailed beyond the in-game books. I remember reading somewhere about how daedra couldn't reproduce and their appearance was strictly cosmetic. Likely in Morrowind. But according to the wiki itself there are both male and female Auraks (Golden Saints). They were introduced in ESO so whether we should consider it canon to the offline series is debatable. As Lodakai said above, anything is possible with the right backstory. Not that Bethesda, or even Todd Howard, cares about maintaining the lore where it conflicts with their own ideas. Plus I'm the wrong person--and this is the wrong site--to discuss what's canon or not in any great detail. TES games from Morrowind on are modular in more than one sense.
Blaze69 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 On the topic of reproduction, there's a quest in Coldharbour in ESO where you have to, quote: "Rescue the hapless manservant from a beautiful Daedra". There are four notes written by that manservant (one, two, three, four) that specifically mention a Winged Twilight "making advances" and "wooing" him. Haven't played through the quest yet so I don't know if there is any specific dialogue, but the notes are there. Now since I'm pretty sure platonic love is not exactly the thing you would expect a Daedra to feel, I'd say that means she wants to have sex with him (just told in a PG-13 manner, because think of the children!). Which in turn would imply at least some Daedra can know about/be capable of that and even actively chase it. Now that doesn't mean they can actually reproduce, but it could hint towards it, since, y'know, that's the whole point of it. I also think I recall reading about some half-Daedra beings at some point, though the Daedra half actually comes from a Daedric Prince being one of the parents (IIRC they are called Demiprinces or something). So if I'm right about that, then mortal/daedra crossings are possible; not sure if your run-of-the-mill Dremora, Goldent Sain or Dark Seducer that decides to go their own way and run some shenanigans on Mundus would actually be able to produce offspring with mortals or it's limited to Princes or very powerful Daedra only, though. I like to think they can, but YMMV.
Nazzzgul666 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Uhh, not that much familiar withthe TES lore, but wasn't there some story about a daedra in Morrowind who got some offspring with mortals? One of the shrine quests i think, but it's been quite a while that i've played it... don't remember which one.
Neko91 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 My characters are half-Daedric so I've wrestled with these questions and how they came to be part Daedra. I've always used the simplest explanation which is that they had a Daedric father and human mother but lately I've been mulling over the theory that growing up in Oblivion is what altered them -- that the properties of the place itself is what changed them. (The player home I built for them is a pocket Oblivion, three desolate little islands set in an otherwordly sea -- it's kind of a Bermuda Triangle -- ships in Mundus find themselves surrounded by a strange fog and when the fog clears, they're stranded in this little piece of Oblivion.) I guess anything can be explained by magic (and Dwemer technology!) but I'd like my explanation to be somewhat logical (if not completely lore-friendly). And wondering if there's anything in Elder Scrolls lore that touches on places and their properties having an effect on mortals.
Lodakai Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 You were once a happy little chicken living in a happy little farm not far from Whiterun. Suddenly an odd fellow eating a cheese sandwich started walking by when he looked at you and started cackling hysterically. You cocked your little chicken head toward him and glowered menacingly with your left chicken eye, but he just stood there pointing at you and cackling rudely. Well he was much bigger than you so all you could do was just cluck at him nervously. It was then that you notice that the odd fellow was pointing not with his finger... but a weird stick. "Say CHEESE!" the rude man cackled... and before you knew it a light shot forth from within the stick and struck you square in your chicken beak. For no apparent reason, you noticed that somehow, you now had arms and legs encased in some kind of black and red metallic armor. "Well..." said the strange man, "I would stop and discuss your new predicament with you, but I have a lunch date with a dead man inside his head. TAH TAH!" And off he went, still cackling and eating his cheese sandwich. Thus you became a Daedra, or infused with one. Who knows... up until a moment ago, you were merely a chicken. Anything is possible.
Jexsam Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Daedra can't reproduce sexually, full stop. It just can't happen. Biological sex has no bearing on this. Sex is fun, it's part of the sphere of at least two Princes, and it doesn't have to lead to reproduction, so any mention of Daedra having sex can't be assumed to be indicative of the ability to reproduce. The only counter-example comes from the 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 14, and those things are so drenched in metaphor and language acrobatics that "sons and daughters of the union" could mean a whole host of things besides literal children. There's more than one way to skin a Khajiit, though. Sure, you can't just have a chick get pregnant by a Dremora the usual way. But what if, say, a magical mishap occurred that intertwined the soul of a mortal with the vestige of a Daedra? Soak this mixture in raw creatia, and you end up with something that is at least philosophically half-Daedra, I would assume. Or what if an infant is offered in some kind of ritual that binds the essence of a Daedra to its own? You could even invoke the old "transporter accident" trope and have a Mark and Recall spell fuse a wizard and their Daedra familiar into one being.
ppp Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I count three, Mephala (by the Dunmer), Molag Bal (rape), and Sanguine (general debauchery and hedonism). As for constructive suggestions: What if a Daedra is summoned, and a spell placed on them so they can't return to Oblivion, even in death? We know Daedra can be bound for a long duration, even if the player can't do it. It would take a one-of-a-kind spell, but it may be possible. A soul trap variant, perhaps. Maybe a leftover from the Ayleid Empire, since they used armies of Daedra (and Undead). The Thalmor are, among other things, attempting to recover the magic of the Ayleids. Maybe they had a hand in it. I know, I know, ESO is blasphemy, but the Souless Ones (Player Characters), grant a precedent for non-original souls animating a body. When a PC is knocked out/killed, another PC can use a filled Soul Gem to revive them. It doesn't have to be a Black Soul Gem, either. Daedra can be soul trapped. What happens if one places a Daedric soul into a moral body?
arpaschad Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 well until TE6 comes out this century (hopefully) all we can rely on are the UESP and various other sources that are established canon... of course Bugthesda can and will pull off a Disney and fuck everything up ala Star Wars lore-wise... besides, I doubt the lore department in "Todd's Chess Club" would focus on obscure lore like Daedras having a sex life or not thereof...they would focus more I think on trying to build lore around the bugs that will inevitably show up on TE6... "Um, why does that Breton have scaly green skin and four arms?" "Uhhh...it's...it's in the...LORE...yes!! they are Argonian, Human and Kevorkian hybrids!!" "WTF is a Kevorkian?" "it's a new race that we have developed..uhh for TE6!! yes... yes! they are apparently descended ffrom the uh...from the...Dwemer!! yes that's it!"
Jexsam Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 On 1/11/2018 at 6:04 AM, ppp said: I count three, Mephala (by the Dunmer), Molag Bal (rape), and Sanguine (general debauchery and hedonism). Shit, you're right. I am a bad lore nut. I mean, I did say "at least" but I should have known.
ppp Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Jexsam said: Shit, you're right. I am a bad lore nut. I mean, I did say "at least" but I should have known. You weren't wrong, exactly. I mean, Sheogorath may count too, if what the Court of Mania gets up to is any indication, but I don't think it's in his sphere officially. It occurs to me that reproduction as mortals understand it would be useless to Daedra, because of a difference in what happens after death. Daedra go to Oblivion and form a new body over time, emerging as themselves. Mortal souls go to various realms in Aetherius (Sovngarde is one of them) by default, but can go elsewhere, such as if they have made a deal with a Daedric Prince or have been soul trapped. For mortals, reproduction serves as the means of creating new bodies to be inhabited by souls. It is unclear if reincarnation is a thing. A quick search of UESP suggests the only mentions of reincarnation are unofficial documents. Regardless, a new mortal has no memories, and thus, even if reincarnated is not 'themselves'. Mortal souls have no other means of producing/acquiring a body.
Ernest Lemmingway Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 7:54 PM, arpaschad said: well until TE6 comes out this century (hopefully) all we can rely on are the UESP and various other sources that are established canon... of course Bugthesda can and will pull off a Disney and fuck everything up ala Star Wars lore-wise... Quoted for truth! I highly doubt "God" Howard and co. will ever address the idea of whether or not daedra can reproduce sexually or not. Without that it's impossible to say for certain whether or not it is possible or not canonically. Plus we're forgetting that people with daedric ancestry may not be borne of traditional sexual unions. It doesn't really stretch the imagination to think of mages trying to fuse mortal and daedric essences into one body simply to see if it could be done. Briarhearts and hagravens are two examples of this twisting of mortal form. As is the shape the Last Dwarf in Morrowind takes with his mechanical lower body and even the Corpus disease which was an artificial creation of Dagoth Ur and the Sixth House. This isn't to imply that daedric-mortal fusions would be successful. Simply that it's possible--even likely--that it's been tried before and is still being tried. Never underestimate the capacity for meddling and perversion in men and mer. Or Daedric Princes, for that matter.
arpaschad Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said: This isn't to imply that daedric-mortal fusions would be successful. Simply that it's possible--even likely--that it's been tried before and is still being tried. Never underestimate the capacity for meddling and perversion in men and mer. Or Daedric Princes, for that matter. Or rule34 "lore"... another question: let us assume that Daedra and mortals can reproduce with each other through traditional means or through other convulated magical means...what would be the offspring of this union called and what would they look like? more human or more Daedric? what are the perks of being a half-mortal/half-daedra kid? Daemer would be a good name for Daedric-Mer(elf) pairing...but what name would be given to DaedraXHuman bastards? Daeman? Daemons? lol...
Ernest Lemmingway Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 6 hours ago, arpaschad said: let us assume that Daedra and mortals can reproduce with each other through traditional means or through other convulated magical means...what would be the offspring of this union called and what would they look like? more human or more Daedric? what are the perks of being a half-mortal/half-daedra kid? Good questions. I kind of imagine the appearances are an amalgam of daedra and mortal heritage, with the daedric side indicating physical beauty or hideousness. The offspring of Dark Seducers might appear normal except for duskier skin than normal for the mortal parent's race while Golden Saint offspring would have gold-tinted skin, for example. As for the perks, that's definitely a function of their specific daedric ancestry. Each daedric race has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. ERRATA: In a previous post I mentioned how male Golden Saints were introduced in ESO. Turns out that's a mistake; they were in Shivering Isles first. Mea culpa. If it has to do with Oblivion I'm not likely to remember; I just didn't like that game as much as Morrowind and Skyrim.
ppp Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 According to (Notes on) Racial Phylogeny, mixed children primarily take after their mother. There have also been unsubstantiated reports Daedra producing offspring with humans and elves. (As always Bethesda likes to keep their options open.) http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Racial_Phylogeny No, no, you were right. Oblivion is at the end of the Third Era, ESO takes place in the Second. Clearly, male Golden Saints were first encountered in ESO.
Ernest Lemmingway Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 I meant in terms of when they first appeared in the games (2005 vs. 2014).
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