Lich Evilynn

[Sarge Misfit]

Hiya, Evilynn

 

Just wanted to say thanks for the credit

Wanted to keep helping, but friend/housemate/landlord is dealing with cancer and I've been taking care of things while he's dealing with his health.

 

[Evilynn]

1 hour ago, mabuse786 said:

I really enjoy your idea but I have to say, there should be some more possible player interactions and much more bondage in it. Currently there is no bondage at all and no torture devices. Also, due to the lack of interaction for the player, it feels a bit like a movie. Which is also nice to experience but I am asking myself, was this your intention?

 

Excellent story and ideas you have. Thinking of your background story, I can only say, I find your way of thinking quite appealing. Great work!

 

The lack of bondage / torture devices in the current mod is happening because you just arrived at her lair, and all of her old gear is gone.

 

If the Sara sequence worked correctly for you, then later in the dialog Evilynn is happy to learn she is a leatherworker, and comments about her making a new whip and some leather straps for Evilynn to use on her.

 

You will have quests to fetch new victims with the correct skills to make more "toys" for Evilynn. Blacksmith, Furniture Maker, etc.... Zap has so many wonderful animations / devices I want to use, but I can't use them until the proper victims are picked up.

 

Evilynn will send the player / victims out to fetch the ore/wood/leather that will be used to torture / humiliate them. 

 

 

EDIT:

The bug you mention sounds like the "falling through the world" bug. I had that happen on one saved game (and the start location made no difference) If it happens again, look up and see if you are leaving a "trail" of magic glowing effects in the sky. Just to be sure.

 

The issue of Sara stopping at the door will probably need logs to figure out. If you want me to look into it I will need you to turn on debug logging in the Lich Evilynn menu and attach the resulting script to a post / PM. The only thing coming to mind is if you didnt do a clean install, but instead tried to copy over a previous version of Lich Evilynn + a saved game with the previous version.

[Evilynn]

5 minutes ago, Sarge Misfit said:

Hiya, Evilynn

 

Just wanted to say thanks for the credit

Wanted to keep helping, but friend/housemate/landlord is dealing with cancer and I've been taking care of things while he's dealing with his health.

 

No problem at all, you have already been a great help and more than earned my thanks!

[EinarrTheRed]

May well have misread it as it was late when I did the play thru, but I was fairly sure that was the end of the partner part which was the only path that seemed interesting to me (wasn't in the mood to be Dudley Doright and I'm never in the mood to play the victim). 

 

I'm still not sure how much in the way of ideas I can offer, at least not til I get a better feel for your story line.  But, I suspect we might have some similar thinking on some things.

Spoiler

Part of why I got so intrigued is because reading the very well developed back story and set up you have turned out to be strikingly similar to a project I've been working on here an there for awhile.  In my case my project was to create a player home that could be obtained at the end of a quest line.  The idea I had and had started construction was the player would come across a very old ruin, so old that no one remembers what it used to be.  It's rumored to be haunted but those were just stories... right... like dragons... oh wait... rut roh!  My villain was going to be, and I kid you not, an evil disembodied female necromancer who likes to kidnap women as playthings and to feed on their life energies in order to regain her strength and eventually her physical form.  Dastardly minds think alike?  So the player would then discover the plot, track down missing women, find a way into the ruins (helped by the ghost of a little girl who once lived there long ago and knows a secret way in and who's family was trapped inside centuries ago and some of their spirits might still be there), defeat the evil chick (or maybe not... again, some parallel ideas me thinks) and then be able to purchase the property, hire an architect and rebuild the ancient manor house into a fine estate and player home.  But, being a builder rather than a coder I started building the locations with only an outline of the general plot.  Then I saw your mod the other day and did a double take, had myself a chuckle and figured I HAD to at least give it a try.

 

One thing I was pondering today is how you might handle Evilynn reacting differently to a player depending on the character's level and achievements.  Say the Dragonborn is still low level, hasn't finished any other quest lines.  In that cause the default reaction would be for her to look at the Dragonborn as just a pawn, one with a lot of potential but still too weak to be anything but a pawn.

 

On the other hand, it could be a Malgrynn type, level 109, Alduin is dead, Miraak is dead, Serana and all the other vampires are dead (yeah, I killed her, and I'm NOT sorry for it! ), he's got the full Bend Will shout (mind control magic Evilynn likely doesn't have and wouldn't fully understand, something that would probably both intrigue and frighten her), Arch-mage, can conjure all sorts of things, Master of Thieves, slayer of the Dark Brotherhood, guy Astrid kidnapped and that did NOT work out well for her... you get the idea.  This is not a guy (or a gal if a female character) to be trifled with. Evilynn doesn't strike me as a dummy, so I think she'd be more cautious in her dealings with such a person.  She'd want to appear in control but that might actually be more bluff than reality, and she doesn't want to make an enemy out of the very person she's going to need to get her body back and regain her strength.  Plus, they could be a very powerful ally.   That could set up quite the Machiavellian power struggle between the player and Evilynn, played out over time with a lot of subtlety.

 

In particular I thought about that Bend Will shout, that's some powerful mojo.  Look at what Miraak was able to do with it.  What if, a character who had that might actually be very resistant to Evilynn's control.  She has to bend much of her strength and focus to control the character even for brief periods.  But of course she's not going to let on to that and will try to hide that fact.  But as events play out the player might have chance to notice and then later exploit that weakness to gain their freedom or even turn the tables.  And the plot thickens.

 

So basically certain skills, shouts, or quest stages (achievements) would be set as conditions which would trigger alternate dialogs and possibly quest branches.

 

Course that's all complicated, which happens to be my specialty.  Practicality... well... nobody's perfect.   But maybe in all that rambling you'll find some useful nuggets.

 

Anyway, I'll think on it and will be watching how the mod develops and maybe I can come up with more useful (and practical) ideas in the future.

[Evilynn]

9 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Part of why I got so intrigued is because reading the very well developed back story

Are you talking about the background story on the download page, or my short story: The history of Evilynn: Tia’tha's Story - The Beginning?

 

EDIT:

As for the suggestions, the complexity worries me a lot less than the fact that it's creating content that users will, at best, only see part of...

 

Lets say I'm adding 10 quests. Each giving about 10 minutes of playtime...

 

I can either make 10 title/achievement so that the average user gets 0 - 50 minutes of playtime, or add 10 "standard" quests to the mod, and the average user gets 100 minutes of playtime. The choice is a no brainer (at least at this stage of development)

 

At this point I'm thinking of just adding some "idle" dialog for Evilynn/Victims to comment on achievements.

 

I can see lots of fun conversations for the PC to overhear or join in...

 

Partner Version:

NPC Victim: Even if we could escape Mistress Evilynn, we wouldn't stay free for long. We would be hunted down and brought back for punishment by Master Dragon, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood!

 

Victim Version

NPC Victim 1: Did you know Mistress Evilynn even captured the Arch-mage?

NPC Victim 2: But how? The Arch-mage is so powerful!

NPC Victim 1: I don't know how she captured her, but Dolly is the Arch-mage.

 

It could actually add a lot to the "feel" for both paths... The only problem is that I'd need a LOT of conversations like these... I don't want them to be  the next "i took an arrow in the knee"!

[EinarrTheRed]

The one on the download page, had not seen this other link but as I'm sitting here taking a break to eat some dinner looks like I've got some reading to enjoy with it. 

[mabuse786]

2 hours ago, Evilynn said:

 

The lack of bondage / torture devices in the current mod is happening because you just arrived at her lair, and all of her old gear is gone.

 

If the Sara sequence worked correctly for you, then later in the dialog Evilynn is happy to learn she is a leatherworker, and comments about her making a new whip and some leather straps for Evilynn to use on her.

 

You will have quests to fetch new victims with the correct skills to make more "toys" for Evilynn. Blacksmith, Furniture Maker, etc.... Zap has so many wonderful animations / devices I want to use, but I can't use them until the proper victims are picked up.

 

Evilynn will send the player / victims out to fetch the ore/wood/leather that will be used to torture / humiliate them. 

 

 

EDIT:

The bug you mention sounds like the "falling through the world" bug. I had that happen on one saved game (and the start location made no difference) If it happens again, look up and see if you are leaving a "trail" of magic glowing effects in the sky. Just to be sure.

 

The issue of Sara stopping at the door will probably need logs to figure out. If you want me to look into it I will need you to turn on debug logging in the Lich Evilynn menu and attach the resulting script to a post / PM. The only thing coming to mind is if you didnt do a clean install, but instead tried to copy over a previous version of Lich Evilynn + a saved game with the previous version.

Oh, thank you and I understand. So, the cinematic impression, I currently have, is also wrong, because you plan the missions to happen after the prologue and the story currently goes until the end of the prologue. WOW, this is just amazing and a huge project!!! I am impressed, this will be an amazing mod.

 

The bug is somehow the 'falling through the world' bug, but I was not falling. The PC was darkened and was moving slightly up and down in a rhythmic fashion. I have Maria Eden installed and tried to take off clothes, which worked but then I had a black 'block', extending from my characters body to the top. This happened only once and did not happen again, up to now. As I wrote, I stayed in Saarthal, waited there and the scripts about the renaming kicked in and I was transported to outside of Ivarstead. Everything nice.

 

I loaded then a game, I saved after the paralysis of Sara and turned on debugging. I couldn't find the log files - where are they located? Docs, Story, found something but not the log files.

I do not see any strapons in the game, it seems some animations are missing - sexlab stage x but nothing on my screen, only Arrok lesbian worked. The story ended again with Sara and PC not moving forward in the entrance area but I could advance the scene by MCM and going to the last item, I think 'torture Sara'.

This might be not a problem with your mod, I have 235 active mods and the problem may lie in the number of these mods and what they do. I did a clean install via NMM 0.63.19 and uninstalled 0.12 and then installed 0.16.

Just for your information and please keep up your excellent work. I really enjoy it! Thank you!

 

[Evilynn]

@mabuse786 Go here for logging information: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/73823-what-is-a-papyrus-log/

 

 

[Question for Everyone]

How is the light level in the intro and the lair? So many mods and ENB's adjust it that I can never know... Also, in the lair, try different light settings in the Lich Evilynn menu under lair.

 

I hope "Main Room Lights: Center" one works well... It should brightly light the center area.

[valcon767]

On 3/25/2018 at 10:43 PM, Evilynn said:

v0.1.6 is out!

Some bug fixes/refactoring of existing quests

Complete rewrite of everything in the lair, and changes to the look of the lair.

Victim path now has reached a good stopping point, and I'm going starting on the partner path now.

See the file page for instructions on making tears work.

The current version adds a couple (unchecked) "story" sexlab animations. If you already have all sexlab animations slots filled, then you will need to remove something and then restore it after finishing the mod. They are disabled because they are not intended to run outside the story. The scenes that run them manages scripting, stages, and dialog. Without that management they don't work correctly.

 

Let me know what you think, and feel free to offer constructive criticism!

 

Some specific points I know I want feedback on:

1. New look of the first area and the lair. Like the darker feel?
2. The new [Emotion] I have in dialog and text (after you reach the lair - does it help?)
3. Wolves should be completely fixed, but let me know if they still attack! (If they do attack, I want to know when, and if they attacked you or a follower)
4. If your sexlab animations are full please let me know.. I want to know how much of a problem this is. I have a few options for fixing it, but it takes time away from other changes I'd rather do

 

feedback on 0.1.6 test run 

ran it total of 5 times (no follower at any time), Victim path only

 

1 - i like it, and yes it is darker but fitting (to me at least), additional note - the ability to adjust the lighting works very well.  the area selected (in the MCM) ends

     up brightly lit, and with which area being adjustable (thru the MCM) it will allow individual players to more fine tune it to personal preferences.

 

2 - i find it helpful.  this is something i would leave in until 2 things are both completed:  Mod is out of Beta, and you have actual voice actors (not a text to speech).

 

3 - wolves: runs 1 and 4 had no wolves show up at all, runs 2, 3, and 5 did have wolves show up, but i was not attacked at all

 

4 - my Sexlab animations are not (quite) full (i have worked hard to lower how many i am using), so far no problems, if mine fill up and/or i run into a problem due

     to the mod adding more i will post then.

 

i did have a CTD during the Lair sequences.  both were at the exact same point (after she paralyzes Bunny, then during her the last line of her speech before she

takes Bunny's clothes).  as i do get random CTD during the first 30 minutes of play (which this was) i discounted the first one totally, it happened again on run 2,

then never again.  i had not turned logging on in the MCM during the play, and i think it was due to another mod trying to run a check at the exact wrong time

(probable due to how many other mods i have running), i will try it again in a couple more days (with logging on) and if it happens again i will post (with the log).

 

the Lair is smaller (good thing) than it was before making it much easier to navigate, and is more fitting for a Lich (which should be able to magically change stuff

when she wants anyway).  the darker feel of it also is more fitting (imho) for the mod.  

 

after the completion of the current content i was able to actually leave the Lair and go back into Skyrim and return without any problems (left and returned to the 

Lair).  

 

tested the skip to this part of the quest part of the MCM, and it worked fine (victim path only).  

 

during the final portion of the current content i did find the neverending crying (of Bunny) a bit distracting (and slightly annoying) while EvilLynn was talking.

it made hearing what EvilLynn was saying harder (just had to pay more attention to actually understand her).  it did stop at the end of their "talk".

personal suggestion would be after EvilLynn starts talking to Bunny during the very last part of current content she could tell Bunny to knock off the crying, and

Bunny would either stop the crying (or possibly stop and start again {when EvilLynn tells her plans for sister} during the conversation).

other suggestion could be to just lower the volume of Bunny's crying, which would make EvilLynn easier to hear and (hopefully) also convey Bunny's

sense of hopelessness.

 

a possible point to have EvilLynn equip a collar on Dolly could be when Dolly walks up to the throne to sit down (have her stop at the chest to get it possibly), 

then equip it before she sits down (if you want her wearing a collar that early that is).

 

overall it is well done so far and i am looking forward to more as you make it.

 

i did not retest the Partner path at all (as it has no new content yet).

 

hope the feedback is useful

 

[EinarrTheRed]

11 hours ago, Evilynn said:

Are you talking about the background story on the download page, or my short story: The history of Evilynn: Tia’tha's Story - The Beginning?

 

EDIT:

As for the suggestions, the complexity worries me a lot less than the fact that it's creating content that users will, at best, only see part of...

 

Lets say I'm adding 10 quests. Each giving about 10 minutes of playtime...

 

I can either make 10 title/achievement so that the average user gets 0 - 50 minutes of playtime, or add 10 "standard" quests to the mod, and the average user gets 100 minutes of playtime. The choice is a no brainer (at least at this stage of development)

 

At this point I'm thinking of just adding some "idle" dialog for Evilynn/Victims to comment on achievements.

 

I can see lots of fun conversations for the PC to overhear or join in...

 

Partner Version:

NPC Victim: Even if we could escape Mistress Evilynn, we wouldn't stay free for long. We would be hunted down and brought back for punishment by Master Dragon, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood!

 

Victim Version

NPC Victim 1: Did you know Mistress Evilynn even captured the Arch-mage?

NPC Victim 2: But how? The Arch-mage is so powerful!

NPC Victim 1: I don't know how she captured her, but Dolly is the Arch-mage.

 

It could actually add a lot to the "feel" for both paths... The only problem is that I'd need a LOT of conversations like these... I don't want them to be  the next "i took an arrow in the knee"!

First the story, read it, enjoyed it (and then I took a nap LOL)!  I'll share my thoughts on it elsewhere but there are a few things relevant here.

 

I think we both have in common a love of story and good dialog.  Something that is often lacking (especially for a us poor male dominant characters!  I blame sexism!  just teasing).  From reading your story I don't think coming up with dialog is going to be a problem for you and once I have a better feel for your story line where I can get in the right frame of mind I can probably help with that some.  I'm wondering how Evilynn's personality has evolved since those early beginnings, I'll share some thoughts about that later in an email.

 

On creating quests and things.  You're right, you might add quests that only add a small amount of extra play experience in a single play thru, some of that content might not even be triggered in a particular play thru and thus totally missed.  But the other side of that is repeat play value.  You might play thru this time and do quests 1,2, 4, 5, 8 and 9; while missing quests 3, 6, 7, and 10... but next time you (or someone else) plays they make a different choice and maybe they see more of those quest or better, they see some of those instead of some of the others.  Branching paths have higher replay value, they're kind of like those "Let me choose" adventure books that you can read thru 20 times and get a somewhat different story each time.  Its more work but higher replay value, whether that's worth it to you is up to you to decided.  If you go that route what I would do if it were me approaching the problem is story board it out, write out a rough description of one path thru the story and then figure out where and how it might branch, weave back in and so forth.  Then when it comes to quest building, build that one path first and once its done and working and play tested, start adding in that planned branching material.  Adding it in should be easier because it was planned in advance, and it will fit seamlessly for the same reason rather than feeling like something tacked on later.  Again, up to you.

 

Okay, next thought I'm going to put in a spoiler because 99% of the people reading this won't give a damn, but you might find some of it useful...

Spoiler

Part of what you're dealing where, and also part of what is frustrating me is what we used to call "shoehorning".  That's a old term from back in the glory days of table top Dungeons & Dragons (along with killer DMs, but that's another issue).  What it referred to was DMs who just didn't have a creative thought in their heads.  They'd run a "canned" (published) adventure and the only thing they could do was follow the script.  If the adventure said the players were supposed to go to Cave X to find the big clue so they could go find the bad guy, then by god the players MUST go to cave X.  If the players were really paying attention and had figured out where the bad guys was without the clue, the DM would stubbornly try to push them to go to cave X anyway, because... because... that's what the adventure says is next so... shoehorning.  It was frustrating for players because it meant their cleverness, choices, etc ultimately didn't matter... it was follow the script or... follow the script.

 

In computer games I see a lot of the same.  Only its often MUCH worse.  Example, I was playing X: Rebirth and I got to this point where the mission was the player is supposed do included having marines on their ship, participate in a big battle where they must fly up to an enemy ship, disable it and then send the marines to board it.  Except the mission description was so poorly done it wasn't clear what exactly you were supposed to do, the scripting was horrible (they said you're supposed to board a freighter, the target ship is actually a destroyer... so my first play thru I boarded the wrong ship ).  To compensate, they patched the mission and made it so nothing you did mattered... including doing nothing.  You can literally show up for that mission with no marines on board your ship, never fire a shot, never go near the battle and it still plays out like watching a movie.  You still get credit, you even get the ship which somehow magically gets boarded anyway, and you even get praised for doing it... though you did nothing.  Nothing you do matters which can leave a player wonder why they bothered at all, what's the point?

 

That latter part hits on the core of something else we've been discussing... that player actions should matter.  That's what wanting an NPC dialog to recognize titles is really about.  We want to feel a sense that our actions in game make a difference, that our choices in play matter.  Otherwise its just being shoehorned into a script where it plays out the same no matter what and all you really need do is show up for your participation trophy.  But, that means writing branching quests that have to do two difficult things, a) allow player choice and b) and this is the tougher part, anticipate some of those choices or at least offer choices that are appealing enough the player doesn't feel shoehorned even if they actually are.

 

To that end, I'll throw out one of my favorite pet peeve encounters as an example, Astrid in the Abandoned Shack.  In the years I've played Skyrim only once have ever joined the Dark Brotherhood, every other time in every other play thru that encounter ends the same... Astrid dies... violently, badly, and often being utterly humiliated in as many ways as I can creatively come up with.  Why?  Shoehorning, bad planning, and me playing in character (which means there's only one way that's going to end). 

 

It was bad planning because its silly on its precept.  You have this supposed scary boogieman in the form of the Dark brotherhood who have been clumsily trying to assassinate the character for weeks, or even months (in one play thru I took so much time getting around to see the Arentino boy the assassination attempts went on for more than a game year).  Next you have Astrid who can somehow magically kidnap the character from a crowded inn, even if you have a couple followers with you and no matter how powerful you are; and somehow this wee lass can haul a fully armed character in heavy armorout to a shack in the middle of a swamp in the middle of nowhere more than a days travel from where the character was and do it in one night!   Is she related to Santa???  Does she have a magic sleigh and eight tiny chaurus?  So the suspension of disbelief is getting stretched thin already.  But then, for the coup de grace she leaves said character fully armed and armored, never riffles through his pockets or notices the 38 assassination orders with her signature, never considers that maybe... just maybe... her would be apprentice might carry a slight grudge about that... and instead she lounges on top of a bookcase smugly doing her best catwoman impression.  No, I can't imagine how that could possibly go wrong for her...   So much for a believable NPC or story line.

 

Que NPC monolog

Interruptus unrelenting shoutus

Astrid gets slammed into the wall and drops to the floor staggering to get up.

Two Dremora lords appear and begin wailing away.  "I HONOR MY LORD BY DESTROYING YOU!"

Character cast Heal Other on her keeping her alive and prolonging the agony in between laughing at her.

Use Telekinetic Grip to toss her about or hold her like a human pinata for the Dremora lords while the beat the crap out of her (custom spell, basically I took the Vampiric Grip power and turned it into an Expert Alteration spell, wonderful for dealing with those smug archers up on a wall... c'mere asshole! *urk!*   WARNING:  Spell does not work on Dragons, Giants, Mammoths or annoying small children.)

Finally ram Dawnbreaker through her chest, killing her.

Still not done, strip corpse, stuff assassination letters in corpse.  Animate corpse as Dead Thrall

March Dead Thrall Astrid to Dragon's bridge, meet the Commander

Report death of Astrid

Spinning backhand sword strike, behead Dead Thrall Astrid

Present head to Commander.

 

Yes, Malgrynn is an asshole, and Evilynn might be his soulmate.

 

So how would I have written that encounter differently to avoid that predictable reaction from a player?

 

No kidnapping of the player for starters

Instead maybe I kidnap a follower (if possible detect the most used follower or current follower and kidnap them, point being try to use a method that is likely to pick one the player may have some emotional attachment too)

ELSE, Send another clumsy assassin only this time leave clues to the Abandoned shack on the assassin (I really prefer this method because players less often see this one coming)

THEN, let players own curiosity or desire to recover a follower march them straight where you want them of their own volition.

 

IF PLAYER doesn't go, kill follower or just do nothing, start timer, after X time, repeat.

OR Release follower, follower returns with warning, plot thickens, start timer, repeat after X time.

IF after 3 attempts the player still doesn't go to the shack, end quest line.  (Sometimes the player really just doesn't want to do something, why force them, why shoehorn them into a quest they don't want to do?  Is this about letting the player have fun their way, or forcing them to play how the game designer wanted?  That's a question I'd LOVE to put to Bethesda.)

 

Okay, so now for the part where you may hate me... I'm gonna pick apart a few things with your starting quest.

 

The soul gem on the table... how'd it get there?  I mean, if anyone touches this thing (and apparently others have) how'd it get there in the first place?  Since its basically a trap, and in such an obvious place with so many curious mages around... well... by the time the player finds it there probably wouldn't be a mage left in the college of Winterhold.  Not to mention the random curious troll, wolf, giant, etc.  What happened to the previous victims, Evilynn is a disembodied ghost trapped in the gem... if she killed them where are their corpses, if she mind controlled them... why didn't I get a quest about the curious problem of the mind controlled mages at the College?   And what about magic resistance, I mean, 25% just for being a Breton, stack on more for enchanted gear and I'm at the max of 80%, don't I get a saving throw?   Needs to be less obvious, maybe some clues somewhere and the player goes looking for one thing and finds a trap instead (ah... sweet curiosity...)  Umm... Lynn... put down the hammer.... k... 

 

Next there's the dream sequence.  Want to know just how paranoid I am?  Character wakes up, promptly goes into crouch, silent cast (perk) invisibility.  Reaver comes in, I watch him quietly staying out of his way.  His back turned I quietly cast Detect Undead... nothing.  Detect life, bingo.   Yes I actually did that.  Sneak up, back stab, he goes down.  Right back to invisibility, hide, wait to see if anyone was alerted... all's quiet.  Search body.  Take stuff.  Open door.  Notice seam (cause I'm examining EVERYTHING, gee does that candle holder turn to open a secret passage... nope, what about that one... nope, does this wall section move... nope... and so on).   See girl and another Reaver.  Get in concealed position.  Detect undead, Detect Life... check... kill guard.  No apparent exits, well that's suspicious... Notice naked girl in hood, nice tits (yes, I am a guy! LOL)... crop... que evil grin (Malgrynn... get it? ).
 

(Rod Serling voice) Now consider, if you will, how much it might have screwed with a paranoid player if these NPCs hadn't registered to either a Detect Undead or Detect Life spell... merely allowing the player's own paranoia do the rest.

 

The thing is 95% of players would never notice that... but for that small percentage like me who will invariably screw up everything else you carefully planned, the irony is something that simple will screw with us more than the best laid trap you can design.  An that's not a bad thing.

 

PS: That would also be a wonderful and subtle clue that it was a dream sequence.

 

Anyway, humor aside, just some food for thought.

 

So, pardon the wall of text and the goofy characterizations and humor, what can I say, I'm a writer and my favorite daedra is Sheograth (an not just cause he's a fellow Irishman, its cause he really gets me, usually right between the fourth and fifth rib.  Ha!).  But something tells me you can appreciate that and the twisted sense of humor.

 

 

Oh an the lighting, I don't run an ENB, just the memory patch.  For me the dream sequence was actually very well lit.  If I were to suggest anything there, maybe add in more of a fog or something, or borrow the lighting from Nightcaller Temple (Dawnstar daedric quest) to create a lil bit of a more dreamy surreal atmosphere and give the player another subtle clue as to what's really going on.  Another one could be the garden / dream sequence with Sanguine, lighting there was very nice and atmospheric.  It could stand being a bit dimmer perhaps.  Maybe even some atmospheric sound effects, just to kinda screw with the player a lil to cue them in that things aren't what they seem and they're about to get twisted.

 

EDIT TO ADD:  Almost forgot, another daedric quest that could figure significantly in your quest line is Azura's Star, especially if the player went the black star route.  Nelacar might even be someone who could give the player some useful info or just help frame what the player is up against (think of it this way, the only prior artifact in the game capable of holding a soul is a Daedric artifact and Evilynn was talented enough to craft something comparable... that's what the player is up against).  Depending on how you want to allow the story to play out, Nelacar might even be able to help the player turn the tables on Evilynn in a similar way as happened with Malen Varen.

 

Okay, enough rambling for one post.  I'm gonna go and re-install and try the Dudley Doright approach and see what happens... just for you... cause I likes what you're trying do.  So there.

[Evilynn]

3 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Part of what you're dealing where, and also part of what is frustrating me is what we used to call "shoehorning".  That's a old term from back in the glory days of table top Dungeons & Dragons (along with killer DMs, but that's another issue).  What it referred to was DMs who just didn't have a creative thought in their heads.  They'd run a "canned" (published) adventure and the only thing they could do was follow the script.  If the adventure said the players were supposed to go to Cave X to find the big clue so they could go find the bad guy, then by god the players MUST go to cave X.  If the players were really paying attention and had figured out where the bad guys was without the clue, the DM would stubbornly try to push them to go to cave X anyway, because... because... that's what the adventure says is next so... shoehorning.  It was frustrating for players because it meant their cleverness, choices, etc ultimately didn't matter... it was follow the script or... follow the script.

 

In computer games I see a lot of the same.  Only its often MUCH worse.  Example, I was playing X: Rebirth and I got to this point where the mission was the player is supposed do included having marines on their ship, participate in a big battle where they must fly up to an enemy ship, disable it and then send the marines to board it.  Except the mission description was so poorly done it wasn't clear what exactly you were supposed to do, the scripting was horrible (they said you're supposed to board a freighter, the target ship is actually a destroyer... so my first play thru I boarded the wrong ship ).  To compensate, they patched the mission and made it so nothing you did mattered... including doing nothing.  You can literally show up for that mission with no marines on board your ship, never fire a shot, never go near the battle and it still plays out like watching a movie.  You still get credit, you even get the ship which somehow magically gets boarded anyway, and you even get praised for doing it... though you did nothing.  Nothing you do matters which can leave a player wonder why they bothered at all, what's the point?

 

That latter part hits on the core of something else we've been discussing... that player actions should matter.  That's what wanting an NPC dialog to recognize titles is really about.  We want to feel a sense that our actions in game make a difference, that our choices in play matter.  Otherwise its just being shoehorned into a script where it plays out the same no matter what and all you really need do is show up for your participation trophy.  But, that means writing branching quests that have to do two difficult things, a) allow player choice and b) and this is the tougher part, anticipate some of those choices or at least offer choices that are appealing enough the player doesn't feel shoehorned even if they actually are.

 

To that end, I'll throw out one of my favorite pet peeve encounters as an example, Astrid in the Abandoned Shack.  In the years I've played Skyrim only once have ever joined the Dark Brotherhood, every other time in every other play thru that encounter ends the same... Astrid dies... violently, badly, and often being utterly humiliated in as many ways as I can creatively come up with.  Why?  Shoehorning, bad planning, and me playing in character (which means there's only one way that's going to end). 

 

It was bad planning because its silly on its precept.  You have this supposed scary boogieman in the form of the Dark brotherhood who have been clumsily trying to assassinate the character for weeks, or even months (in one play thru I took so much time getting around to see the Arentino boy the assassination attempts went on for more than a game year).  Next you have Astrid who can somehow magically kidnap the character from a crowded inn, even if you have a couple followers with you and no matter how powerful you are; and somehow this wee lass can haul a fully armed character in heavy armorout to a shack in the middle of a swamp in the middle of nowhere more than a days travel from where the character was and do it in one night!   Is she related to Santa???  Does she have a magic sleigh and eight tiny chaurus?  So the suspension of disbelief is getting stretched thin already.  But then, for the coup de grace she leaves said character fully armed and armored, never riffles through his pockets or notices the 38 assassination orders with her signature, never considers that maybe... just maybe... her would be apprentice might carry a slight grudge about that... and instead she lounges on top of a bookcase smugly doing her best catwoman impression.  No, I can't imagine how that could possibly go wrong for her...   So much for a believable NPC or story line.

 

Que NPC monolog

Interruptus unrelenting shoutus

Astrid gets slammed into the wall and drops to the floor staggering to get up.

Two Dremora lords appear and begin wailing away.  "I HONOR MY LORD BY DESTROYING YOU!"

Character cast Heal Other on her keeping her alive and prolonging the agony in between laughing at her.

Use Telekinetic Grip to toss her about or hold her like a human pinata for the Dremora lords while the beat the crap out of her (custom spell, basically I took the Vampiric Grip power and turned it into an Expert Alteration spell, wonderful for dealing with those smug archers up on a wall... c'mere asshole! *urk!*   WARNING:  Spell does not work on Dragons, Giants, Mammoths or annoying small children.)

Finally ram Dawnbreaker through her chest, killing her.

Still not done, strip corpse, stuff assassination letters in corpse.  Animate corpse as Dead Thrall

March Dead Thrall Astrid to Dragon's bridge, meet the Commander

Report death of Astrid

Spinning backhand sword strike, behead Dead Thrall Astrid

Present head to Commander.

 

Yes, Malgrynn is an asshole, and Evilynn might be his soulmate.

 

So how would I have written that encounter differently to avoid that predictable reaction from a player?

 

No kidnapping of the player for starters

Instead maybe I kidnap a follower (if possible detect the most used follower or current follower and kidnap them, point being try to use a method that is likely to pick one the player may have some emotional attachment too)

ELSE, Send another clumsy assassin only this time leave clues to the Abandoned shack on the assassin (I really prefer this method because players less often see this one coming)

THEN, let players own curiosity or desire to recover a follower march them straight where you want them of their own volition.

 

IF PLAYER doesn't go, kill follower or just do nothing, start timer, after X time, repeat.

OR Release follower, follower returns with warning, plot thickens, start timer, repeat after X time.

IF after 3 attempts the player still doesn't go to the shack, end quest line.  (Sometimes the player really just doesn't want to do something, why force them, why shoehorn them into a quest they don't want to do?  Is this about letting the player have fun their way, or forcing them to play how the game designer wanted?  That's a question I'd LOVE to put to Bethesda.)

 

Okay, so now for the part where you may hate me... I'm gonna pick apart a few things with your starting quest.

 

The soul gem on the table... how'd it get there?  I mean, if anyone touches this thing (and apparently others have) how'd it get there in the first place?  Since its basically a trap, and in such an obvious place with so many curious mages around... well... by the time the player finds it there probably wouldn't be a mage left in the college of Winterhold.  Not to mention the random curious troll, wolf, giant, etc.  What happened to the previous victims, Evilynn is a disembodied ghost trapped in the gem... if she killed them where are their corpses, if she mind controlled them... why didn't I get a quest about the curious problem of the mind controlled mages at the College?   And what about magic resistance, I mean, 25% just for being a Breton, stack on more for enchanted gear and I'm at the max of 80%, don't I get a saving throw?   Needs to be less obvious, maybe some clues somewhere and the player goes looking for one thing and finds a trap instead (ah... sweet curiosity...)  Umm... Lynn... put down the hammer.... k... 

 

Next there's the dream sequence.  Want to know just how paranoid I am?  Character wakes up, promptly goes into crouch, silent cast (perk) invisibility.  Reaver comes in, I watch him quietly staying out of his way.  His back turned I quietly cast Detect Undead... nothing.  Detect life, bingo.   Yes I actually did that.  Sneak up, back stab, he goes down.  Right back to invisibility, hide, wait to see if anyone was alerted... all's quiet.  Search body.  Take stuff.  Open door.  Notice seam (cause I'm examining EVERYTHING, gee does that candle holder turn to open a secret passage... nope, what about that one... nope, does this wall section move... nope... and so on).   See girl and another Reaver.  Get in concealed position.  Detect undead, Detect Life... check... kill guard.  No apparent exits, well that's suspicious... Notice naked girl in hood, nice tits (yes, I am a guy! LOL)... crop... que evil grin (Malgrynn... get it? ).
 

(Rod Serling voice) Now consider, if you will, how much it might have screwed with a paranoid player if these NPCs hadn't registered to either a Detect Undead or Detect Life spell... merely allowing the player's own paranoia do the rest.

 

The thing is 95% of players would never notice that... but for that small percentage like me who will invariably screw up everything else you carefully planned, the irony is something that simple will screw with us more than the best laid trap you can design.  An that's not a bad thing.

 

PS: That would also be a wonderful and subtle clue that it was a dream sequence.

 

Anyway, humor aside, just some food for thought.

 

So, pardon the wall of text and the goofy characterizations and humor, what can I say, I'm a writer and my favorite daedra is Sheograth (an not just cause he's a fellow Irishman, its cause he really gets me, usually right between the fourth and fifth rib.  Ha!).  But something tells me you can appreciate that and the twisted sense of humor.

I'm gonna go and re-install and try the Dudley Doright approach and see what happens... just for you... cause I likes what you're trying do.  So there.

Just a quick "on the way to work" response

..

 

Speaking of railroading! The victim path starts off as a pure railroad... But it's a delibrate one

 

A second quick note: Evilynn's "trap" isn't waiting for the first person to touch it. It's waiting on the first person with a large amount of "soul fire" to touch it, and that's the player. It sounds like I need to make that clearer.

 

The original version of the mod had her soul gem hidden inside Saarthal, but people had a hard time finding it. I moved it out and placed it in plain view on a table in an early update.

[Krynn]

So I find the speech perfect, because other mods could look something off!
Personally, I do not like the rest so much,..
Of course, it's a story, but well...
You yourself have no action as a player.

Bunny is already called Bunny at the campfire in this monologue and so on..
From time to time you should have this already, otherwise I can also watch a video from youtube of skyrim.
The animations in the dungeon at the end do not work for me at all.
dda, ddx, ddi, and of course, as always, up to date!
After almost 4 months without an update, I hoped for something more, so far were you already in the reason.
But as I said, it's just my personal opinion!!!

PS: The lights in the dungeon look very good, the rest is rather boring and lacks many furniture.

PPS: Also a few devices on the characters would be interesting, there are now ~ 1000s of them.

 

 

 

 

[Evilynn]

38 minutes ago, Krynn said:

Bunny is already called Bunny at the campfire in this monologue and so on.

 

From time to time you should have this already, otherwise I can also watch a video from youtube of skyrim.

The animations in the dungeon at the end do not work for me at all.

PPS: Also a few devices on the characters would be interesting, there are now ~ 1000s of them.

 

Bunny should be called Sara everywhere before the rename (except in the console) where did you see bunny?

 

I do realize the first part is like a movie, but you have reached the end of the "constant movie". Except for specific scenes and punishments for disobedience.

 

Did I really fail to mention RUN FNIS?? *Face Palm* Sorry about that. You may need to run fnis, and you need two open sexlab animation slots. Long term I plan on having internal animation slots so the open sexlab slots are not required.

 

As I mention above, Evilynn doesn't have the bondage gear/furniture yet. Her victims will build them for her. Bunny is a leatherworker, next Evilynn needs a blacksmith then a woodworker/furniture maker.

 

As more and more victims are added, more options will open up until many devices and many pieces of gear are available.

 

The player/victims will be sent on quests for supplies as well. 

 

"Go hunt some wolves, and bring back the leather. Bunny will create a whip for me to beat you with."

 

"Blacksmith, build a giblet in this room over the firepit. Come get me when you finish so I can test it on you."

[Evilynn]

In order to fix the annoying problem of slave NPC's having dialog like "Please, no more, I'll do whatever you say!" Followed with "My friend, I want to be a merchant one day!" I'm forced to limit NPC victims to the ones added by this mod.

 

I'd like suggestions on how to fit that in the story/gameplay. Right now I'm leaning towards Evilynn giving quests for specific victims, and that's the only way to capture them. That's a little clunky (why wouldn't she want you to take some random sexy bandit as well)

 

A second idea that I like is for Evilynn to only choose the ancestors of the group that stopped her last time. "Yeah, your great-great-great-etc-great-grandfather/grandmother killed me, he is long dead, but I like to think his/her spirit is watching when I take his/her childrens-children-etc for my toys."

[Evilynn]

I've been thinking about it, and I think I'll stick to my original plan. Evilynn sends you on quests to capture victims for her lair, and you can't bring anyone but yourself - and victims she picks - into the lair...

 

However, I'll also have "general location" scenes for playing with other NPC characters outside the lair. 

 

If Evilynn likes you, perhapse you can also convince her to teach you the "Dreamscape" spell she uses in the first quest... And eventually learn to cast it on more than one person at the same time.

 

Dreamscape could take you to a location where you can play with your victim using any unlocked devices. Like they are in the lair.. but no idle chat and no dialogs (add a non-vocal way to issue orders) ... When you finish you return them to where they were with no memory of what you did to them. 

 

The more I think about it the more I like it...

 

You can take any victim, but advancing the story / changing the lair requires following Evilynn's victim choices and quests.

 

 

EDIT: Wow, I talk a lot  - but this is the place for it!

 

EDIT2: Also a "kidnap" with a paired "return with no memories" spell 

[mabuse786]

20 hours ago, Evilynn said:

@mabuse786 Go here for logging information: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/73823-what-is-a-papyrus-log/

 

 

[Question for Everyone]

How is the light level in the intro and the lair? So many mods and ENB's adjust it that I can never know... Also, in the lair, try different light settings in the Lich Evilynn menu under lair.

 

I hope "Main Room Lights: Center" one works well... It should brightly light the center area.

Ok you meant the papyrus log, not a mod specific log. This I know. Light is absolutely OK for my. Tried the MCM settings but didn't see any changes for now. Needs further investigation.

[mabuse786]

5 hours ago, Evilynn said:

Bunny should be called Sara everywhere before the rename (except in the console) where did you see bunny?

 

I

 

This happens during the campfire scene, where Sara has already the name Bunny - as Krynn already mentioned. I think this a minor glitch regarding a WIP and I could add some typos as well but I am not this nitpicking... So, I keep my mouth shut and may be come back to you, when you have reached 1.0 and give you some support with typos Or, I could offer you to take over Quality Assurance... Really, would do it and also change everything myself.

[mabuse786]

3 hours ago, Evilynn said:

I've been thinking about it, and I think I'll stick to my original plan. Evilynn sends you on quests to capture victims for her lair, and you can't bring anyone but yourself - and victims she picks - into the lair...

 

However, I'll also have "general location" scenes for playing with other NPC characters outside the lair. 

 

If Evilynn likes you, perhapse you can also convince her to teach you the "Dreamscape" spell she uses in the first quest... And eventually learn to cast it on more than one person at the same time.

 

Dreamscape could take you to a location where you can play with your victim using any unlocked devices. Like they are in the lair.. but no idle chat and no dialogs (add a non-vocal way to issue orders) ... When you finish you return them to where they were with no memory of what you did to them. 

 

The more I think about it the more I like it...

 

You can take any victim, but advancing the story / changing the lair requires following Evilynn's victim choices and quests.

 

 

EDIT: Wow, I talk a lot  - but this is the place for it!

 

EDIT2: Also a "kidnap" with a paired "return with no memories" spell 

Well write a lot about your thoughts, seems to be very fruitful. I like this approach above and the cinematic prologue. This fits to a 'victims' path, in my understanding. I also played the victims path with no opt out...

Works well for me but I am using more than 11000 animations with FNIS XXL 7.2 and I didn't check, but I guess, there is no free slot in Sexlab...

[EinarrTheRed]

8 hours ago, Evilynn said:

Just a quick "on the way to work" response

..

 

Speaking of railroading! The victim path starts off as a pure railroad... But it's a delibrate one

 

A second quick note: Evilynn's "trap" isn't waiting for the first person to touch it. It's waiting on the first person with a large amount of "soul fire" to touch it, and that's the player. It sounds like I need to make that clearer.

 

The original version of the mod had her soul gem hidden inside Saarthal, but people had a hard time finding it. I moved it out and placed it in plain view on a table in an early update.

For victims and people who want to play as victims that's probably okay, as its what the player wants.  Maybe that's why mods that cater to that are so prevalent, its a LOT easier to write that because the mod designer can just take away player choice and script stuff.

 

For players that want choice, railroading is less appealing.  That makes your job more challenging. 

 

In spare moments today I had an idea for the soul gem but given your remarks I'm not sure you'll find it useful.  Here it is though just in case you do...

Rather than a soul gem, see if someone can make you a custom circlet mesh (I could make the mesh but I've no way to get it into Skyrim, I've never taken the time to figure out going from Blender > Nifskope > Skyrim).  That becomes your new soul gem.

Set up a script that does two things.

• One, adds it to one loot chest randomly selected from a list (ala Meridia's Beacon) or just adds it to a root loot list so it could show up almost anywhere. 
• Second, what the script adds is a trick item that can look like an ordinary enchanted helm or circlet.  Its not until the player equips it that the illusion is dispelled and the circlet appears for what it is.  BAM... and its Rut Roh Shaggy time.
• For extra special deviousness, it affect anyone, player or NPC with => X Magicka.  Follower equips it and poof, they disappear and the circlet is left on the ground.  Player must now equip it to find their follower.  Start a scene with Evilynn and the bound and helpless follower and a proposal from Evilynn, help and your follower will remain... relatively... unharmed.  Resist, misbehave or betray her and your follower will suffer for it... allow me to demonstrate... And there I go making more work for you again.  Just an idea though.

 

Its devious, it fits what seems to be Evilynn's personality but it may not sit well with your players if they're in a rush to go find this thing, and there's the rub.  I guess you could do a MCM option for a "random start location" if you wanted.  There I go making more work for you again.

 

"Lynn, put your hands back on the keyboard, I'm going to make you do more coding, I don't expect you to remain still but you will put your hands back on the keyboard each time..."    (We'll call that my first bit of short fan fiction    emphasis on *fiction* )

 

3 hours ago, Evilynn said:

I've been thinking about it, and I think I'll stick to my original plan. Evilynn sends you on quests to capture victims for her lair, and you can't bring anyone but yourself - and victims she picks - into the lair...

 

However, I'll also have "general location" scenes for playing with other NPC characters outside the lair. 

 

If Evilynn likes you, perhapse you can also convince her to teach you the "Dreamscape" spell she uses in the first quest... And eventually learn to cast it on more than one person at the same time.

 

Dreamscape could take you to a location where you can play with your victim using any unlocked devices. Like they are in the lair.. but no idle chat and no dialogs (add a non-vocal way to issue orders) ... When you finish you return them to where they were with no memory of what you did to them. 

 

The more I think about it the more I like it...

 

You can take any victim, but advancing the story / changing the lair requires following Evilynn's victim choices and quests.

 

 

EDIT: Wow, I talk a lot  - but this is the place for it!

 

EDIT2: Also a "kidnap" with a paired "return with no memories" spell 

Adding your own victims will likely save you a lot of headaches and potential conflicts.  Cause yeah, otherwise you'll have to come up with a way to disable their original Hellos dialog which might be possible but I'm not sure.  There are some other possible solutions but they all get increasingly complicated.  It will also save you having to deal with complaints when someone inevitably makes Maven Blackbriar or Jarl Elisif a victim and then realizes they've fubared their quest lines and want to know how to fix it cause they did it "accidentally". 

 

(WARNING:  Mod author is not responsible for fubared save games because you did something dumb.  To correct problem, reload from previous save and DON'T ENSLAVE MAIN NPCs.  Have a nice day.)

 

New spells are always fun and the dreamscape could be quite interesting.  I'll see your portable hole and raise you a portable player home and dungeon.

 

Note 1:  You don't talk a lot.  *I* talk a lot, you're an amateur.  Stick around kid, I'll learn ya a thing or three.  

 

Note 2:  Yet another spell, goody!  I haven't looked to see if you have anything like this but I'd thought about adding a few variations to the Illusion school like a "Beguile" spell, temporarily beguiles a NPC, they will follow you mindlessly until the spell wears off (maybe enable some of the vampire cattle dialogs, that sort of behavior during their follow package), they will not fight and if injured the spell is broken.  "Charm" more powerful version, the NPC will follow, injury no longer breaks the spell, affects higher level NPCs.  "Command" master level, NPC will follow you and even fight for you.  Could be very useful in your mod, or any mod that deals with kidnapping, enslavement, etc.

 

Note 3:  The thing about the Irish is not getting us to talk, its getting us to shut up.  

 

[Evilynn]

45 minutes ago, mabuse786 said:

This happens during the campfire scene, where Sara has already the name Bunny - as Krynn already mentioned. I think this a minor glitch regarding a WIP and I could add some typos as well but I am not this nitpicking... So, I keep my mouth shut and may be come back to you, when you have reached 1.0 and give you some support with typos

Good to know, I think I know whats causing it. Also, feel free to let me know about typos anytime

 

19 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Maybe that's why mods that cater to that are so prevalent, its a LOT easier to write that because the mod designer can just take away player choice and script stuff.

I'm tempted to argue with you about this, but that's just because we are talking about similar (but not the same) things.

 

It's much easier to create simple quest lines and don't give players choices (that's what your talking about ,and you are 100% correct!)

 

Skyrim is not designed to do "control the PC" railroading well, and it's actually much harder than just doing a quest for the player to do the same thing by themselves... (that's what I'm thinking about, and I'm 100% correct!)

 

So, I'll just agree with you now that I've gotten that off my chest!

 

 

20 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Its devious, it fits what seems to be Evilynn's personality but it may not sit well with your players if they're in a rush to go find this thing, and there's the rub.  I guess you could do a MCM option for a "random start location" if you wanted.  There I go making more work for you again.

I'll think about how to do this or something like it well, but it's not going to be soon (adding content is more important right now)

 

20 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Adding your own victims will likely save you a lot of headaches and potential conflicts.  Cause yeah, otherwise you'll have to come up with a way to disable their original Hellos dialog which might be possible but I'm not sure.  There are some other possible solutions but they all get increasingly complicated.  It will also save you having to deal with complaints when someone inevitably makes Maven Blackbriar or Jarl Elisif a victim and then realizes they've fubared their quest lines and want to know how to fix it cause they did it "accidentally". 

 

(WARNING:  Mod author is not responsible for fubared save games because you did something dumb.  To correct problem, reload from previous save and DON'T ENSLAVE MAIN NPCs.  Have a nice day.)

 

New spells are always fun and the dreamscape could be quite interesting.  I'll see your portable hole and raise you a portable player home and dungeon.

I really like the idea of the dreamscape / return because that can be done without causing problems in the saved game. It's impossible(basically) to turn off dialog from other sources. You can just add in new dialogue options... BUT, I *think* it's easy to turn off all dialogue for an actor, and if I'm right about that, then I can do this without a backbreaking amount of work.

 

 

[EinarrTheRed]

35 minutes ago, Evilynn said:

I'm tempted to argue with you about this, but that's just because we are talking about similar (but not the same) things.

 

It's much easier to create simple quest lines and don't give players choices (that's what your talking about ,and you are 100% correct!)

 

Skyrim is not designed to do "control the PC" railroading well, and it's actually much harder than just doing a quest for the player to do the same thing by themselves... (that's what I'm thinking about, and I'm 100% correct!)

 

So, I'll just agree with you now that I've gotten that off my chest!

 

And I agree with your second point, I've made a couple of attempts at scripting a scene... the results weren't pretty.  Then I watch CPU do it and I just sit here slack jawed and feeling stupid.  LOL

 

Quote

I'll think about how to do this or something like it well, but it's not going to be soon (adding content is more important right now)

Course, I'm just spit balling ideas here.  You pick an choose whatever is useful, its your mod.  I'm just trying to be helpful (in between being a bit silly )

 

Quote

I really like the idea of the dreamscape / return because that can be done without causing problems in the saved game. It's impossible(basically) to turn off dialog from other sources. You can just add in new dialogue options... BUT, I *think* it's easy to turn off all dialogue for an actor, and if I'm right about that, then I can do this without a backbreaking amount of work.

You might be able to use blocking dialog topics, but I haven't tried that with hello dialogs so I'm not really sure.  You could add a faction and then use that as a != condition to the original dialog quest (shared hello dialogs) but that means editing the original content which could cause conflicts with other mods and/or get overwritten.  So probably not any ideal solutions, least not any I can think of for just restricting certain dialogs without completely disabling them all.

 

You can definitely completely turn off the hello's, just go into whatever behavior packages you create and on the Flags tab leave 'Hellos to player' and 'Random conversations' unchecked an there will be no more "Hello.... yes?.... need something?  Yes?  What do you want?  Yes?   Yes?  Hi there.... need something?" Which makes me want to equip every NPC in the game with a ball gag... on general principle.    I still haven't had time to go back and try a different path with your mod so I'm just guessing at what you're trying to do, but hopefully that was helpful.

 

I think the dreamscape will be a popular idea, so +1 that.

[EinarrTheRed]

Finally had time to go back and play thru the victim side.  Took notes as I did, here they are unedited.

 

Spoiler

Lich Evilynn Test Play thru

 

• Freed girl, fade to black
• Loved the evil laugh
• Dream Sequence
• Freed the girl
• At some points I noted Evilynn's dialog did not have subtitles, not sure why since I have them turned on always.
• No problems with 3rd person camera, but then free cam for me is set to Num 9 so that may have avoided conflict.
• Dream Sequence Ended
• Got a blue glow, I'm sparkly!
• No quest update, that might be confusing for some players
• Went to college of Winterhold
• Dialog with invisible Evilynn on steps leading up.
• Slept in Arch-mages quarters, more dialog with Evilynn when I woke up.
• On the last line of dialog, the audio suddenly cut off without finishing and the quest updated.
• Character renamed
• Checked around college, no one knew anything.

    Suggestion, this could be an opportunity to build tension by letting an enterprising talk to Urag or others, maybe find some old records or a book and get a hint of who they're dealing with.  Could be used to build up the horror for victims, or give a better frame of reference for those playing a partner (when you get to that).

 

• On my way out, Evilynn moved in.
• Changed location, apparently I'm not the only one who likes to whistle... gave me a chuckle.
• At the campfire, Sara's name is Bunny
• Some of Evilynn's dialog was a bit long, the bit about describing searching the lair and so forth was more detailed than it needed to be.
• In the lair Sara is a regular Sherlock Holmes!  That's quite a lot of deducing.
• The lair seems too clean, no cobwebs or dirt or such, needs clutter.
• Sara mentions it doesn't match the description in some book, but at no point has she been given or read a book.

    Suggestion, as above, the player could be made to fetch a book, this could then be shown to Sara which would tidy up that bit.
    

• After paralyzing Sara, character went over to a chest and started to open it.  Suddenly stood up and turned around and then did nothing for a couple of minutes before dialog started up again.  Seemed odd and kind of broke the flow of the scene.
• Yup, animations are wonky with a male character  LOL
• After Bunny's escape attempt and some dialog I got an notification the content ended there.
• Noted that dialog options from other mods like Eager NPCs, TDF Prostitution, MME, etc. were available for Bunny and Evilynn.  So I was actually able to recruit Evilynn as a prostitute and then I made her a milk cow!  Its possible to use blocking dialog to prevent this, worth looking into I think for sake of immersion.
• Lighting seemed fine in the Lair, but I think it could be dressed up more with mage lights.  Maybe a dramatic moment when Evilynn / Dolly talking to Sara waves her hand and suddenly several mage lights flicker on, giving Sara her first clue she's about to get screwed (literally).
• The fountain in the second room, needs some splash effect on the water surface so you can tell there is water there.  Otherwise with Pure Water installed it looks like water just disappearing into the stone.  Or else use murky water or see if you can change the color of water (never actually tried doing that) to make it blue or purple or something interesting and visible (Pure Water makes it crystal clear).
• NPCs need KS Hair's and general "prettying up"
• Did not note any mesh or texture problems in the lair, everything seemed to fit together properly in the parts I saw (did not enable everything, probably should have but was short on time)

 

Okay, there you are.  Hope that's helpful.

[mabuse786]

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Finally had time to go back and play thru the victim side.  Took notes as I did, here they are unedited.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Lich Evilynn Test Play thru

 

• Freed girl, fade to black
• Loved the evil laugh
• Dream Sequence
• Freed the girl
• At some points I noted Evilynn's dialog did not have subtitles, not sure why since I have them turned on always.
• No problems with 3rd person camera, but then free cam for me is set to Num 9 so that may have avoided conflict.
• Dream Sequence Ended
• Got a blue glow, I'm sparkly!
• No quest update, that might be confusing for some players
• Went to college of Winterhold
• Dialog with invisible Evilynn on steps leading up.
• Slept in Arch-mages quarters, more dialog with Evilynn when I woke up.
• On the last line of dialog, the audio suddenly cut off without finishing and the quest updated.
• Character renamed
• Checked around college, no one knew anything.

    Suggestion, this could be an opportunity to build tension by letting an enterprising talk to Urag or others, maybe find some old records or a book and get a hint of who they're dealing with.  Could be used to build up the horror for victims, or give a better frame of reference for those playing a partner (when you get to that).

 

• On my way out, Evilynn moved in.
• Changed location, apparently I'm not the only one who likes to whistle... gave me a chuckle.
• At the campfire, Sara's name is Bunny
• Some of Evilynn's dialog was a bit long, the bit about describing searching the lair and so forth was more detailed than it needed to be.
• In the lair Sara is a regular Sherlock Holmes!  That's quite a lot of deducing.
• The lair seems too clean, no cobwebs or dirt or such, needs clutter.
• Sara mentions it doesn't match the description in some book, but at no point has she been given or read a book.

    Suggestion, as above, the player could be made to fetch a book, this could then be shown to Sara which would tidy up that bit.
    

• After paralyzing Sara, character went over to a chest and started to open it.  Suddenly stood up and turned around and then did nothing for a couple of minutes before dialog started up again.  Seemed odd and kind of broke the flow of the scene.
• Yup, animations are wonky with a male character  LOL
• After Bunny's escape attempt and some dialog I got an notification the content ended there.
• Noted that dialog options from other mods like Eager NPCs, TDF Prostitution, MME, etc. were available for Bunny and Evilynn.  So I was actually able to recruit Evilynn as a prostitute and then I made her a milk cow!  Its possible to use blocking dialog to prevent this, worth looking into I think for sake of immersion.
• Lighting seemed fine in the Lair, but I think it could be dressed up more with mage lights.  Maybe a dramatic moment when Evilynn / Dolly talking to Sara waves her hand and suddenly several mage lights flicker on, giving Sara her first clue she's about to get screwed (literally).
• The fountain in the second room, needs some splash effect on the water surface so you can tell there is water there.  Otherwise with Pure Water installed it looks like water just disappearing into the stone.  Or else use murky water or see if you can change the color of water (never actually tried doing that) to make it blue or purple or something interesting and visible (Pure Water makes it crystal clear).
• NPCs need KS Hair's and general "prettying up"
• Did not note any mesh or texture problems in the lair, everything seemed to fit together properly in the parts I saw (did not enable everything, probably should have but was short on time)

 

Okay, there you are.  Hope that's helpful.

I can confirm most of it except that I could not move on my own the whole time. The compass on top of the window showed several times but vanished in seconds.

Hope it helps.

[EinarrTheRed]

Back home and have a bit more time

 

Once Evilynn took over and moved to the lair, I didn't have control of my character's movement either until at the end when she talked about sending my character out to do tasks for her.  After that I could move about freely.

 

Looking at the lair in CK I spotted a couple problems. 

• At the entrance there are two empty triangles that need to be filled. 
• Also at the entrance, try to make the triangle used for the door link (the one that turns green) as large as possible.  This will help when entering with one or more NPCs following as they all try to "land" in that triangle.
• Where you have temporarily blocked off passages, you might want to consider using collision boxes and on the Primitives tab, set the collision layer to L_Navcut to temporarily cut the navmesh and prevent NPCs trying to walk thru walls.  I find that also works well with cage doors (add the box around the cage door, then use a script to disable it when the door opens and enable it again when the door closes).
• Once you know where you're going to locate furniture and so forth, you might consider using preferred pathing to help direct NPCs around some areas to avoid people bumping into furniture and so forth.  Right now with the space mostly empty and not having much idea how you intend to use it its hard to make any recommendations.

 

In the main room of the lair, in the left corner (left as you enter) there are two floor tiles on top of each other.

 

Kudo's on the use of occlusion planes 

 

Also nice to see someone else who likes to build big spaces

[Mrs_Knot]

my latest test was a bit odd, because I did the victim path and so on so forth, but then when Evilynn was describing the lair to Sara, the dialog cut off and jumped straight to the part when you have just entered the lair and the  "screwing up Sara" part should start, but I get the notification (if you can call it that) that says that I have reached the end of the content available...

 

If I'm not mistaken this last update (0.1.6), or at least the one that I got, goes further inte the victim path.

 

So I don't know if it glitched or that the option with cheats does not get that far