SexoutRapist v1.04 (10/13/2012)

[srayesmanll]

Please, let me know how it is interfering with gameplay. My understanding was the Karma in FONV was practically worthless EXCEPT for possibly the game ending. Factions base their reaction to individuals based on reputation only, Karma does not play into faction the ratings at all. Karma may be used in certain dialogs, but frankly the only one I've found so far (through game play and prior to adding the Karma hit in SOR) wasn't even in the vanilla game, it was in a sexout mod. I will take a look through the vanilla game to see if can see where Karma might affect more. Other mods that use Karma are not of my concern (I can't check every mod in existence ).

 

I have taken a look at the various Karma values (check out the chart here: http://mycheats.1up.com/view/section/3170857/30107/fallout_new_vegas/pc). Now I realize that I haven't actually stated the Karma hit value in the OP, so here it is: 1. You get larger Karma hit stealing than you do raping someone . You would have to perform 100 rapes on non-Enthralled victims to cancel out killing 1 evil creature/NPC. For my own testing, with the Karma hit added, I raped just about everyone in GS 6-10 times each (not the Doc, just can't do it to him ). I then travel to Primm and raped a few there several times each. I then left Primm walked towards the State Patrol station going to the Mojave outpost, where I sniper-killed the 2 convicts you see near the station, which gives you positive Karma. I also sniper-killed the 2 Jackals next to the station. I checked my Karma level at that point and guess what? It said Good, which is a Karma value of 250+.

 

I really don't think the Karma hit is a detrimental as you think. Now, FO3 was different can of beans (pinto of, course ). FO3 relied on Karma ratings for a hell of a lot. But again, everything I've seen on Karma in FONV ends with basically a big fat "eh". If you have specific examples, please let me know. And again, I'll take a look at the vanilla game through the GECK and see what kind of things Karma does affect. I am against removing it completely, but there may be more situational settings where getting the Karma hit can be avoided (I refuse to make is a simple as Good/Evil, raping an Evil character is just as bad as raping a Good one). Also remember that with the newest version, raping Enthralled followers and NPCs does not give you a Karma hit.

 

[EDIT] The one example I could find for sure was that supposedly Cass will leave you if your Karma falls into the Evil range (-250 to -749) and you talk to her "too often" while evil. What the hell is "too often"?[/EDIT]

[zippy57]

Personally, I like the karma hit. But I would like it better if any time the player is flagged as a rapist they get a karma hit, not just when using this mod. That would probably require it to be added to Sexout itself, though. It would also be nice if you could gain bad rep for it (I can't find a function to get if the player is part of a faction that's tied to a reputation, but I wonder if script-killing the NPC on the player's behalf and then resurrecting them would work).

 

There's no gray area with rape like there is with taking owned items. If you do bad things in the game then you should be punished by the game's internal morality meter, such as it is.

[srayesmanll]

I just got home from work and took a gander through GECK at Karma and I could only find (so far) 3 instances where Karma is even checked. This is in the vanilla game, no DLC (there may be more in DLC):

 

1) End of the game.

2) Cass. If you hit the evil mark, she will leave forever. She does give you warnings prior to reach that stage.

3) RL3. I have no fucking clue who RL3 is (probably one of the EdE variations). If you are evil, he will not join you.

 

So far, that's it.

 

zippy57: Totally agree that it should be in the main sexout. Rape is an evil act regardless of victim and the Karma hit should be inflicted. What I don't understand about any of the question from an RPG perspective is this:

 

1) If you are playing a good/neutral character, why are you raping? I could see it as you are basically good but cannot control your urges, therefore you rape, get a karma hit, and feel bad about what you've done. You do other good things in the world to try to make up for it (get Good Karma). You are fighting a constant battle to stop yourself. So in this case, the Karma hit is a good reminder that you shouldn't be doing that. This is actually how I play this one out with my characters when I'm not testing the mod.

 

2) If you are playing a bad character, who gives a flying fuck what your Karma is. You're bloody evil. Revel in it. The RP idea to try to maintain good karma would only be to try to hide your evil nature. But Cass will eventually see right through it

[NepoznatiNN]

Ouch , didn't expected so much fuzz about my suggestion . It was just about possibility that if you ever make MCM support you can add way to open/close karma hit.

 

Seems you're right , in New Vegas karma is not playing big role , possible because they are not really good factions , NCR is only marginally better than Legion (they are fascist occupiers , look for example Cassandra Moore - she is bloodthirsty witch and in game she is tagged as neutral).

BTW , i didn't know about Cass wanting you to have good karma , i did thinked before that she is only care about your reputation with NCR .

 

Thing is that people mostly using mods after finishing vanilla game - adding missions , enemies , want to see characters in new clothes or sex situations or using SIMS-like mods (as Real Time Settlers) , or just want best possible end and for such Perfectionist you can add possibility to remove karma penality in MCM , but is not big deal even if you do not .

It was just suggestion.

 

BTW , i do not see this mods as real rape , it is just role playing with little sex .

It is like being in some Sex Club where you can have romantic relationship , but can have (or be victim of) some BDSM or faked rape relationship too

(like as in your mod when you say to , for example Veronica , I want to see you playing with yourself , and she is like Ouch , OK , i will , please don't hurt me)

 

 

 

 

On the other hand if you see it , as zippy57 did say , as an real rape , than they should be penalty for playing character and NPC-s too such :

 

- same example with Veronica in your mod - I want to see you playing with yourself - OK i will , please don't hurt me (but i will in first opportunity permanently run away from you , because you are rapist)

 

- or in Brutal Rapers , when for example Doc rape your follower , he is not anymore good Goodspring citizen , he must be tagged as member of Rapist faction

 

- if this is real rape than it should be possibility to say to some wannabe rapist something such : OK , i'm level 30 , stronger than Terminator , have Nuclear bomb in my hands , and you are cripple , level 1 with cracked stick , you will not rape me (you can kill him later , but you can not stop rape before) .

 

That's my opinion , i don't see it as real rape , just role playing .

 

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

 

 

Edit :

I can think about , possible , future , mod in Sexout that will have karma question important :

- for example in possible future mod that add Talon Company & Regulators to New Vegas - each with his Facilities - if you have good karma Talons will enslave you / make you prostitute ... , if you have bad karma Regulators will catch you and put you in some Correction Facility where you will be (gray area) raped .

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

[srayesmanll]

"BTW , i do not see this mods as real rape , it is just role playing with little sex .

It is like being in some Sex Club where you can have romantic relationship , but can have (or be victim of) some BDSM or faked rape relationship too"

 

I can understand what you are driving at. The problem for me is immersion in an RPG. I am the courier character (just for grins sake I'll call him Samson). Samson is a courier for the Mojave Express and has just healed up from wounds. He is wandering around GS. He meets Sunny in the saloon. He gets lessons from her on shooting, kills some geckos, kills some more geckos, and saves a female settlers life. She thanks him and walks away. He then stalks her (crouching down) and then jumps her and anally rapes her. Then he goes to Sunny and orally rapes her at gunpoint. Now in the immersed world of the game, there was no agreed upon safe word, no discussion beforehand as to what was acceptable and what was not. Samson forced himself onto 2 different woman without their consent. "real" rape. Now if you step out of the character and view this as a player, you can say that it's like a sex/bdsm club or rape fantasy. But from an RPG immersion standpoint, it's rape.

 

One thing not commented on is the Enthrallment stuff I added. The idea is that at a certain point, the victim begins to become attached to their rapist. Once enthralled, the "rape" becomes more of a "faked rape relationship", like you mentioned above. It's still rape in that it's forced rough sex, but the victim is now wanting that kind of sex. That's why the Karma hit is removed when "raping" an enthralled victim. The psychology of this is of course fairly flawed. Probably completely flawed. And the fact the followers don't permanently run away after being raped is not very logical. But then, you would never have any followers . Now also with this idea of enthralled NPCs, there is the possibility of a raped NPC becoming a hater. I have not fleshed out the hater, but they will fuck up the life of the PC somehow.

 

As far as Brutal Rapers goes, I have a lot of issues with that mod (it makes no sense to me that a follower can get raped and you as a player just stand around waiting for the rapist to finish so you can get back to what you were doing, and don't get me started on combat rape...) but I don't fault the mod for not tracking and tagging NPCs as rapists. Think of the paperwork . And frankly, what would it do with them gamewise? Make them wear a scarlet "R"? No, BR does what it does (makes the PC and NPCs victims, and get raped by creatures) and that's all.

 

So again, as a human player, you can justify the rape act as role-playing between to characters. But immersed in the character, non-consent is rape and a Karma hit.

 

By the way, I think what touched me off was the first line: "Karma hit was unnecessarily , it interfering with vanilla game play". Getting told something like "you're fucking up the game" without facts just kind of annoys me. Sorry if I came off as being pissed off at you. As far as what you mentioned about Talon or Regulators, in the Crime & Punishment section, I actually touched on something like that (having bounty hunters come after the rapist, hired by one of the victims). Not based on Karma, just hired to put an end to your evil deeds .

[zippy57]

If it were a consensual "rape role-play" between the player character and the NPC, then it wouldn't actually be rape. So you wouldn't flag it as rape because you wouldn't want to increase the player's stat counters in that regard.

[srayesmanll]

If it were a consensual "rape role-play" between the player character and the NPC' date=' then it wouldn't actually be rape. So you wouldn't flag it as rape because you wouldn't want to increase the player's stat counters in that regard.

[/quote']

 

Currently "rape" on an enthralled NPC will not get the Karma hit. Problem is I want the sounds to be the rape sounds to simulate rough sex (may not be officially rape, but it is still forced/angry sex). So it will still be a rape on the stat line. Do the stats actually affect anything in sexoutNG/SCR? Maybe need an NX variable to use rough sounds but not be considered rape? Oh, prideslayer...

[NepoznatiNN]

I'm sorry (i really apologize), it was not meant as "you're fucking up the game" , it was more like "it will permanent change my character" .

 

It was about fact that you can loose karma on many more places in Sexout like in Tryout where Epstein is neutral??? character , if you steal key from him to save yourself and followers from rape and forced prostitution you loose karma (if you kill him and cut his body to pieces that's OK)

Or you loose intelligence when become pregnant (or was it only if you are horny ?).

...

 

In Brutal Rapers i do not like possibility of loosing equipment , and author added way to disable that , that was what i asked you .

 

I like way your mod goes (even more now that you explained Enthrallment better) , you mentioned somewhere possibility of even raped/enthrallmented NPC-s become some kind of sex slave .

 

With your mod , and few other we will get a lot of options . ( for example if someone expand episode from Sewer Slave , we can have way to make Jet Whores out of NPC-s , but probably to become one too)

 

 

Of course , nobody would like to see real rape or enslavement . Even in game we all have some kind of borders .

 

I for example can not go in Nipton without killing Vulpes Inculta (and rest of Legion soldiers there) . Never was , never will .

 

 

Sorry zippy57 , but i can not imagine situation where i say to my girlfriend something like : "I will consensual role-play faked rape you !!!"

That would destroy the mood .

 

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

[NepoznatiNN]

BTW , you mentioned about making some mod with bounty hunters that come after the rapist, hired by one of the victims .

 

I think you should add Talons or Regulators too , maybe even NCR hunters and Legion slavers too (but that way that you are not get faction penallity if you fight them) if you are in quests against them . Possibly for other factions too.

 

More factions > more quests > more gameplay .

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

[KingOwen]

 

As far as Brutal Rapers goes' date=' I have a lot of issues with that mod (it makes no sense to me that a follower can get raped and you as a player just stand around waiting for the rapist to finish so you can get back to what you were doing, and don't get me started on combat rape...)

 

[/quote']

 

unless the entire game is now set in a world where rape is common place. Kinda like a hentai I read once where girls above 18 that weren't able to buy thier own freedom were sold into slavery. That's kinda the way I like to look at it, where this is kinda common place. I know it's pretty weak, but I enjoy looking at it like that (when I have BR turned on).

 

Your mod is excellent, btw. Really adds character to my bandit guy that doesn't give a F*ck about anyone. And oooo sunny, that poor girl. She gets the big one every time I change areas .

[zippy57]

srayesmanll: The stats don't really affect anything, but they're still there. I would suggest that, if you want rape sounds but not official rape, then you treat it as rape and then subtract one from the player raped others total and (if the karma hit ever becomes official in Sexout) restore the player's Karma by whatever the normal loss would be to make everything even.

 

NepoznatiNN: Penalties from stealing are from vanilla. I already acknowledged there's a gray area there the game doesn't take into account due to the way the feature is implemented. That fact is irrelevant in this situation. There is no gray area in rape. At all. Ever. I've noted in the past the general oddity regarding how violence is treated in regards to other forms of "explicit content". And you lose Intelligence when horny because (theoretically) you're busy thinking about having sex and that's distracting your mind from other things.

[KingOwen]

I have a legitimate question. In the area where it talks about you being able to enslave them if you have a mod, which mod were you thinking of? after I get done, they just run off, never giving me the option to make them mine forever.

[srayesmanll]

KingOwen: That's still an IIP (Idea In Progress - as opposed to a WIP [Work In Progress]). I need to research slavery in general. Sexout Slavery has several features, but the mod (as most Sexout mods) seems to geared toward a PC as victim, not like mine where PC is instigator. With slavery not being a part of the vanilla game (yes, the legion has it, but not available to general population), I have to look also at the slavery mods. I have used (and still use) Slavery Simple/Expand in my own games. I like how they modified the collars to be shock collars using an electronic leash for training/tracking slaves (a second application of the leash does produce the headboom like other collars, but I never use that feature). There is also Project Ultimatum. Never used it so I don't how they handled enslavement. Then there's cortex scrambler, which uses no shock collars at all, just nano-probes that make the NPC a slave. Never used it, and not a big fan of the idea. I would like to support all of the mods available, but if I can't, then it will be Slavery Simple/Expanded. But again, that feature is not currently present at all, just an idea. Enthrallment is actually a form of sexual slavery, in that the Enthralled NPC no longer contemplates escape when being raped by the PC (or a coerced follower) and will readily agree to rape another NPC (coercion).

 

Also, thanks for the positive note in a previous post. Usually all mod devs see in these posts is either "I have a bug..." or "Thanks, but..." It feels good to get just a positive note now and again. Unfortunately, I am just as guilty on the "I have a bug.../Thanks, but..." notes on mods. I need to go back and just thank some of the mod devs.

 

 

 

NepoznatiNN: The sex slave idea is going to be a small part of the next SOR quest I'm going to work on. It's going to be a precursor to "the Lair" mentioned in the OP. Basically a starter lair. The Enthrallment idea is also the start of the sex slave idea.

 

"Sorry zippy57 , but i can not imagine situation where i say to my girlfriend something like : "I will consensual role-play faked rape you !!!" That would destroy the mood ." - Yeah, but you better have that conversation prior to trying to perform any "role-play fake rape", or your girlfriend/significant other might see it as "real rape", and you'll end up in prison being "Bubba's Bitch", and the news report will show your picture with caption "but I was role-playing fake rape...". Then you'll really come to understand the concept of "lack of consent". And also learn the golden rule of prison: "When you drop the soap, your shower is over."

[srayesmanll]

srayesmanll: The stats don't really affect anything' date=' but they're still there. I would suggest that, if you want rape sounds but not official rape, then you treat it as rape and then subtract one from the player raped others total and (if the karma hit ever becomes official in Sexout) restore the player's Karma by whatever the normal loss would be to make everything even.

[/quote']

 

If the Karma hit gets added to sexoutNG itself, then the ability to set the sex act as "rough" (for lack of a better term) should be added as well. "Rough" would get the rape sounds, but would count as "sex" and not "rape" for the counters. Of course all of this would have to go through prideslayer (and the sexout community). I have a feeling that though logical, the Karma hit may not get put in since this only affect the PC as Rapist, and only 3 mods (currently) have this functionality: SORapist, RapeGame, and How About (when PC takes advantage of drunk females...) I think the Karma will be left up to the individual mods, not a general sexout feature.

[prideslayer]

The sound issue is being addressed in an upcoming release, perhaps in the next beta. I'll put the karma hit in at the same time. Loogie has already asked for more complex sound control, so I'll be doing it that way rather than via a 'rough' setting so to speak -- ability to selectively mute or change the sounds being played for each actor, via Actor(a,b,c)Snd or something like that.

 

I haven't fully fleshed it out yet as I need to consider how I'm also going to support different "sound packs" as well.

[srayesmanll]

The sound issue is being addressed in an upcoming release' date=' perhaps in the next beta. I'll put the karma hit in at the same time. Loogie has already asked for more complex sound control, so I'll be doing it that way rather than via a 'rough' setting so to speak -- ability to selectively mute or change the sounds being played for each actor, via Actor(a,b,c)Snd or something like that.

 

I haven't fully fleshed it out yet as I need to consider how I'm also going to support different "sound packs" as well.

[/quote']

 

Shiny... Question: I've noticed that male PC doesn't appear to have any audio during sex (rape or standard). No grunting or anything. Is that a bug, or just no male PC sex audio? Male PC does have audio when when the male PC is raped.

[prideslayer]

Hmm may just not be any, I haven't checked.

[NepoznatiNN]

I do use booth mods - Slavery Simple/Expand and Project Ultimatum .

 

I like Project Ultimatum even more , but this is because you have more content in it (you can scream on people to surrender to you or you can inject them with drogue , you can whistle to attract someone attention ...)

 

Recommended for you to see what man can do with slaves is also excellent mod : Slave Town - Its a slaves life (from nexus , seems that in few days is coming out 2nd part) .

 

If you want to be faithful to your mod , than you need to do something completely new .

Think about victims in your mod as a people with Stockholm syndrome or as Jet whores , or something between this two .

 

With Enthrallment they become used to BDSM sex and start enjoy in it , later also need it .

 

They are in love with your character and dependent on him/her for own sexual satisfaction ...

They do not need collar , they can have weapons (and will defend you even more than before) .

Their allegiance to your character is similarly as with dog/master allegiance - only thing you can not try to kill them or seriously injure them (cripple legs ...)

 

BTW you need to have regular (at least once every few days) BDSM or rape sex with them , otherwise it all can loose meaning to them .

 

Later if you want you can make regular slaves out of them with collar .

Then they will hate you (even when broken , although there is niot such thing as broken slave , just slave that didn't have chance to escape) and be afraid of you .

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

[jaam]

The sound issue is being addressed in an upcoming release' date=' perhaps in the next beta. I'll put the karma hit in at the same time. Loogie has already asked for more complex sound control, so I'll be doing it that way rather than via a 'rough' setting so to speak -- ability to selectively mute or change the sounds being played for each actor, via Actor(a,b,c)Snd or something like that.

 

I haven't fully fleshed it out yet as I need to consider how I'm also going to support different "sound packs" as well.

[/quote']

 

We can still have a global mute though, no ?

[srayesmanll]

I do use booth mods - Slavery Simple/Expand and Project Ultimatum .

 

I like Project Ultimatum even more ' date=' but this is because you have more content in it (you can scream on people to surrender to you or you can inject them with drogue , you can whistle to attract someone attention ...)

 

Recommended for you to see what man can do with slaves is also excellent mod : Slave Town - Its a slaves life (from nexus , seems that in few days is coming out 2nd part) .

 

If you want to be faithful to your mod , than you need to do something completely new .

Think about victims in your mod as a people with Stockholm syndrome or as Jet whores , or something between this two .

 

With Enthrallment they become used to BDSM sex and start enjoy in it , later also need it .

 

They are in love with your character and dependent on him/her for own sexual satisfaction ...

They do not need collar , they can have weapons (and will defend you even more than before) .

Their allegiance to your character is similarly as with dog/master allegiance - only thing you can not try to kill them or seriously injure them (cripple legs ...)

 

BTW you need to have regular (at least once every few days) BDSM or rape sex with them , otherwise it all can loose meaning to them .

 

Later if you want you can make regular slaves out of them with collar .

Then they will hate you (even when broken , although there is niot such thing as broken slave , just slave that didn't have chance to escape) and be afraid of you .

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

[/quote']

 

How the hell did you get into my house and read my planning notes ???!!!! I'm going to have to train those damn guard cats better to work in tandem as tripping hazards .

 

That actually is the direction I was heading with the next quest. The Enthrallment was the first link in the chain. I want to institute a kidnap/capture scenario in this quest, and some BDSM stuff using the zaz equipment (Pillory, etc). For the kidnap/capture stuff, I was looking into the slavery mods because they already existed. The problem I was seeing was that there are at least 3 slavery mods (4 with sexout slavery) that I would have to incorporate, or select 1 to use. I would probably use SS/E because it's the least invasive (doesn't add a lot of extra stuff that the player may not want). But I have some other ideas on capture/kidnap that don't relate to a slavery mod and would prefer to go that route.

 

I looked through the notes of slave town and I like the author's other mods: RogerIrrelevant - he did a mod called slave jail reloaded which I really liked. I stopped using it because you ended up a little overpowered when you complete it (you end up with Hunting Rifle (completely modded), Hunting (and all other available) shotguns, a .44 mag, etc all by level 2), so I stopped using it. I think he's going to incorporate the slave jail reloaded into slave town. Anyway, I haven't played the slave town mod, but everything I've read about it looks good.

[NepoznatiNN]

Slave Town - Its a slaves life is an expanded Slave Jail Reloaded with whole new town in his own map , with whorehouse and even his own Arena for slave fight . In the end you do not get slave jail as in Slave Jail Reloaded .

 

And what's best - it is Sexout friendly .

 

 

About your slavery system - some other suggestions :

 

Regular slave will , when you talk to them , say something like :

Yes master , anything you command (in sad voice or without emotions) .

 

 

 

Your kind will say : Yes master , how can i please you . Did i do something wrong , do i need to be punished ? (in cheerful voice)

 

They could from time to time do some miscarriage (don't know , maybe push you , steal 1 caps , anything small but wrong) to encourage punishment.

 

Cheers , NepoznatiNN

 

 

Edit : and they like to be mild humiliated - sort of like : Get naked and go to this people and tell to them that i'm your master ! (or such things)

 

Edit 2 : Dear God , i'm so perverse .

[srayesmanll]

There you go reading my damn notes again . There will be definitely more dialog changes (still getting a handle on some of the dialog issues - sunny gave me all sorts of fits just adding the damn coercion dialog).

 

 

"Edit 2 : Dear God , i'm so perverse ." - Welcome to sexout, my friend .

[prideslayer]

We can still have a global mute though' date=' no ?

[/quote']

 

I'm still figuring out how I want to implement it, but possibly yes. What context would you want to use it in? Do you mean as a player-controlled setting through MCM? That's the only place it makes sense to me.

 

Per-call muting will probably be done with something like actorA_sounds = N, where N is 0 for mute, 1 for normal, 2 for rapey, and so on. There will be a different system, controlled by the player, that determines just what sounds are played when the setting is 1, 2, etc.

[srayesmanll]

Oooohhh, I see some fun possibilities for per call muting (gags, etc). Shiny...

 

Hey, are there any muffled sound effects available for sexout or in the vanilla game (at work, can't currently check myself)?

[zippy57]

I also would have a use for muting the voices completely, though discussing the reason why would be a rather large spoiler.