Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[hungvipbcsok]

52 minutes ago, serranna said:

 

If anything code is removed in relation to this I humbly request not removing the ability to learn how to craft keys. I have multiple characters and use various settings in conjunction with DCL depending on the character. One of my playstyles involves having a 0% chance to find common keys in the world, and the only way she is able to get keys is to mine iron and make them herself. I would have to pretty much scrap that entire playstyle if the ability to make keys was removed. At the very least I wouldn't object to the idea of moving that feature over to DCL.

I think there are still a dozen of way to get keys. In DCL you can exchange your DD items for key in Dollmaker and the Inn (somehow I forgot the name). Also in the Inn you can buy the key pack that contains random key. 

If you have others DD shop mod like Laura, Pink, you can buy keys from them.

Some others mod can also give you key like Devious Strike, Deviously Carriage, S.L.U.T.S,...

Some mod let you remove items by another mean like Devious Strike, Unforgiving Device, PB's Devious Guard,...

 

I think your playstyle of having 0% chance to find common key in the world is not really depending on the crafting key system. If you have DCL only, the best method to get key is farm for DD items and sell them to Dollmaker or the Inn for gold, level up speechcraft and buy key pack in the Inn. I find that selling DD items level up my speech pretty quick. Once you have decent gold and speech skill, you can buy the spellbook from dollmaker and use it on the common female guard on the hold. Then you can bring them to the slave merchant at riverwood inn or talk to them and loot their valuables and let them go. That way you get even more gold easily that you can buy key pack with.

 

And the best things about key pack, is they cannot be lost if you trigger DCL trap or anything that try to remove keys from you.

[naaitsab]

1 hour ago, serranna said:

 

If anything code is removed in relation to this I humbly request not removing the ability to learn how to craft keys. I have multiple characters and use various settings in conjunction with DCL depending on the character. One of my playstyles involves having a 0% chance to find common keys in the world, and the only way she is able to get keys is to mine iron and make them herself. I would have to pretty much scrap that entire playstyle if the ability to make keys was removed. At the very least I wouldn't object to the idea of moving that feature over to DCL.

It won't. The crafting perk(s) is linked to the Chastity Book which is located inside the Integration ESM. Deviants only places a copy in the forbidden book case.

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, serranna said:

 

If anything code is removed in relation to this I humbly request not removing the ability to learn how to craft keys. I have multiple characters and use various settings in conjunction with DCL depending on the character. One of my playstyles involves having a 0% chance to find common keys in the world, and the only way she is able to get keys is to mine iron and make them herself. I would have to pretty much scrap that entire playstyle if the ability to make keys was removed. At the very least I wouldn't object to the idea of moving that feature over to DCL.

 

This one got a major airing some time ago and, given the vocal support for the feature, I'm pretty sure that @Kimy committed to keeping the key crafting etc available in the mod

 

Sure, you could maybe add them via cconsole, but it would really kill a lot of gameplay options, including asset, follower and quest management

[serranna]

4 hours ago, hungvipbcsok said:

I think there are still a dozen of way to get keys. In DCL you can exchange your DD items for key in Dollmaker and the Inn (somehow I forgot the name). Also in the Inn you can buy the key pack that contains random key. 

If you have others DD shop mod like Laura, Pink, you can buy keys from them.

Some others mod can also give you key like Devious Strike, Deviously Carriage, S.L.U.T.S,...

Some mod let you remove items by another mean like Devious Strike, Unforgiving Device, PB's Devious Guard,...

 

I think your playstyle of having 0% chance to find common key in the world is not really depending on the crafting key system. If you have DCL only, the best method to get key is farm for DD items and sell them to Dollmaker or the Inn for gold, level up speechcraft and buy key pack in the Inn. I find that selling DD items level up my speech pretty quick. Once you have decent gold and speech skill, you can buy the spellbook from dollmaker and use it on the common female guard on the hold. Then you can bring them to the slave merchant at riverwood inn or talk to them and loot their valuables and let them go. That way you get even more gold easily that you can buy key pack with.

 

And the best things about key pack, is they cannot be lost if you trigger DCL trap or anything that try to remove keys from you.

 

I'm not going to spend a lot of time getting into detail about how I play, but with the settings I'm referencing, loose restraints are super rare to find in searchable containers, so the only restraints you're really getting are the ones you need a key to unlock, and money is hard to keep for various other reasons so buying expensive keys from Laura is not exactly easy to do.

I'm well aware of ways to get keys and I purposefully made it difficult to obtain them from others means.

 

1 hour ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

This one got a major airing some time ago and, given the vocal support for the feature, I'm pretty sure that @Kimy committed to keeping the key crafting etc available in the mod

 

Sure, you could maybe add them via cconsole, but it would really kill a lot of gameplay options, including asset, follower and quest management

 

yes I had contributed to that discussion, but you never know if anyone changed their mind about something so I just wanted to reiterate my desire not to have it removed since we were starting to get close to the discussion.

[thedarkone1234]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:14 AM, Kimy said:

 

The more reports like this I am seeing, the more I wonder about the role DCL is playing in these problems. At this point I really would love getting some logs/reports of scenes NOT triggered by DCL.

 

Took me a while but here you go. The end of this log should show how a hentai draugur (From the mod hentai creatures that comes bundled with MNC, which is the main supplier of any non-human animations) attempts rape via his own mod's mechanics, and it gets switched to a human animation.

 

Player is still wearing the slave set as in my previous post. And this kind of animation switch never happens when not wearing DD

 

Papyrus.0.log

 

Hope this helps narrow it down (and I also hope the fact I quitted the game in the middle of the animation doesn't omit anything imporant, because as far as I understand it, the important stuff all happen before the animation is selected)

[UnEvenSteven]

Ah crap, I worked on some stuff again. No worries Kimy, nothing crazy this time so you can breathe a sigh of relief. 

 

How do users here feel about the hoods? They needed some work and didn't even cover red and white versions. The mesh themselves needed some touch-ups in NifSkope. I also re-mapped the UV's to use the hobble dress textures just so they match other devices better. Lastly added a collar with a lock as the description clearly states the hood has a lockable collar.

 

The hoods will now hide collars, gags and blindfolds to help prevent clipping though this will seem odd with the Restrictive Collar. 

 

Black Ebonite Hood:

Spoiler

 

A result of mapping the hoods to use the hobble dress texture, there's now some visible stitching. Like it or not?

Spoiler

 

White Leather:

Spoiler

 

Red Ebonite:

Spoiler

 

Encased (just to be safe):

Spoiler

 

 

Would anyone care if the Execution Hood model was replaced by these versions? Right now it's the Black Ebonite Hood in the Framework. The Black Leather Hood uses the mesh shown in the pictures above. 

[Kimy]

@UnEvenSteven: Love the new models. Including the stitching!

[Kimy]

6 hours ago, serranna said:

yes I had contributed to that discussion, but you never know if anyone changed their mind about something so I just wanted to reiterate my desire not to have it removed since we were starting to get close to the discussion.

 

Don't panic! I have no plans to remove key crafting.

[Kimy]

5 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

 

Hope this helps narrow it down (and I also hope the fact I quitted the game in the middle of the animation doesn't omit anything imporant, because as far as I understand it, the important stuff all happen before the animation is selected)

 

Thank you! I will analyze this and see if I can find out what's going on there....

[DonQuiWho]

5 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

Don't panic! I have no plans to remove key crafting.

 

Thanks @Kimy   That's good to know

 

Now, pretty please, for those of us who play with PAHE/HSH/AYGAS, any chance of expanding DD crafting to maybe include some of the basic DD restrictive cuffs etc and the more esoteric items found in the weird and wonderful DD restraint catalogue?  I so want to be able to sell Camilla Valerius to either Sven or Faendal as appropriate, all nicely gift wrapped in a pink straightjacket, locked red leather fashion high heels, and wearing that fabulous heavyweight gag, the one with the plug that the buyer can remove when he feels the urge  ?

 

 

[CaptainJ03]

12 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

How do users here feel about the hoods?

Really nice to see red and white hoods - but for my fetish, I really don't like what you did around the neck. When my PC is encased in rubber/ ebonite, I would like to see a very smooth form, but now the neck looks as if she's wearing a shawl. I for my part don't care about the lock, but would rather prefer a smooth neck part (and still be able to wear all kinds of collars, even though there's no working leash in Skyrim)

[thedarkone1234]

12 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Really nice to see red and white hoods - but for my fetish, I really don't like what you did around the neck. When my PC is encased in rubber/ ebonite, I would like to see a very smooth form, but now the neck looks as if she's wearing a shawl. I for my part don't care about the lock, but would rather prefer a smooth neck part (and still be able to wear all kinds of collars, even though there's no working leash in Skyrim)

 

I am not sure if it's the exact same thing I am thinking, but I second that. My issue is specifically with any "loose" leather below the collar, because it seems it might not work well with any bodyslide that alters the shoulders (it would either clip or hang in the air in such cases. It is a bit visible in the 1st picture of white leather and 1st picture of red leather)

 

Obviously still an amazing improvement compared to the current rubber hood.

 

On 5/27/2022 at 7:52 PM, UnEvenSteven said:

The hoods will now hide collars, gags and blindfolds to help prevent clipping though this will seem odd with the Restrictive Collar. 

 

 

Is there a new feature that hoods, gags and blindfolds can be used together? Because I am 90% sure it currently is impossible to wear a hood with either of the others, or wear either of the others with the hood. 

 

Would love such a feature either way. It makes so much sense. [And if this feature does exist, at least I can say for sure DCL will not attempt to equip gags with hoods or vise-versa]

[UnEvenSteven]

37 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

 

I am not sure if it's the exact same thing I am thinking, but I second that. My issue is specifically with any "loose" leather below the collar, because it seems it might not work well with any bodyslide that alters the shoulders (it would either clip or hang in the air in such cases. It is a bit visible in the 1st picture of white leather and 1st picture of red leather)

 

Obviously still an amazing improvement compared to the current rubber hood.

 

 

Aside from fixing some issues in NifSkope, re-mapping the UVs to use the Hobble Dress textures, editing some shader settings and adding the collar I didn't really do much more to the hoods. I just slightly inflated some parts of the hood so they don't clip with suit-type devices. No BodySlide is needed.

 

To make the hoods seamless would have required a major overhaul to the meshes and even more work to make sure other collars don't clip. In doing that collars would probably hover too far off the neck, you know damn good and well people would complain about that. Simply hiding collars was the compromise. I just don't have time for anything more.

 

 

37 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Is there a new feature that hoods, gags and blindfolds can be used together? Because I am 90% sure it currently is impossible to wear a hood with either of the others, or wear either of the others with the hood. 

 

Would love such a feature either way. It makes so much sense. [And if this feature does exist, at least I can say for sure DCL will not attempt to equip gags with hoods or vise-versa]

 

You can wear gags and blindfolds with hoods as long as they're worn first before the hood, they're blocked otherwise. Like some gags, hoods will prevent you from consuming food or liquids but don't prevent speech. However if you're wearing a ball gag underneath that hood then you'll be unable to speak.

 

Unfortunately you can remove both gags and blindfolds while still wearing the hood, neither aren't scripted to check for hoods when attempting to remove them.

[thedarkone1234]

2 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

 

Aside from fixing some issues in NifSkope, re-mapping the UVs to use the Hobble Dress textures, editing some shader settings and adding the collar I didn't really do much more to the hoods. I just slightly inflated some parts of the hood so they don't clip with suit-type devices. No BodySlide is needed.

 

To make the hoods seamless would have required a major overhaul to the meshes and even more work to make sure other collars don't clip. In doing that collars would probably hover too far off the neck, you know damn good and well people would complain about that. Simply hiding collars was the compromise. I just don't have time for anything more.

 

 

I am a complete ametour in these things but I do know seemlessness is a huge deal. This is not what I meant to ask for.

What I was refering to is the part of the leather that "sits loose on the shoulder" below the collar that comes with the hood, as in this image here:

 

Spoiler

 

And my question is if it won't clip with different bodytypes, and if it wouldn't be safer to have the hood end with the collar.

 

 

8 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

You can wear gags and blindfolds with hoods as long as they're worn first before the hood, they're blocked otherwise. Like some gags, hoods will prevent you from consuming food or liquids but don't prevent speech. However if you're wearing a ball gag underneath that hood then you'll be unable to speak.

 

Unfortunately you can remove both gags and blindfolds while still wearing the hood, neither aren't scripted to check for hoods when attempting to remove them.

 

In that case, either my DD (which is the latest beta) or DCL act oddly in that regard, because I 100% get gag-talk when wearing hoods without gags, and have never had hoods and gags at the same time before

 

[UnEvenSteven]

The hoods previously shown are ready to go, they've been tested and I have added them to LeveledLists so the new hood variants should appear randomly. I also did some similar work to the other hoods. These are the "Open Eyes, Open Face and Open" types. I don't really like these and would require a lot of work to fix clipping with gags and blindfolds. I don't even want to show screenshots of them.

 

I also worked on something else, the Face Masks. There was only a single version simply called "Face Mask". I wonder how many people knew this device even existed. While it appears to be a gag it was setup as a hood which it's clearly not. Did the necessary CK work so now the Face Masks function as a gag.

 

Spoiler

 

 

They're nothing amazing just an unused device that required similar work as the hoods and didn't have any color variants either. I created a new LeveledList for these face masks and added that to the list that contains all the other gags. So any mod that spawns random devices through these lists the face mask should appear where the other gags would.

 

Here's the file for testing and for merging by Kimy (if she wants):

HoodExpansion.7z

 

FOR KIMY: In case you haven't already done so the plugin also fixes the TextureSet issues for the new Black, Red, and White versions of belts, bras, collars and cuffs. They were using the gold textures. Couldn't help myself and also added "Open" versions of the new colored chastity belts.

[Kimy]

15 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

The hoods previously shown are ready to go, they've been tested and I have added them to LeveledLists so the new hood variants should appear randomly. I also did some similar work to the other hoods. These are the "Open Eyes, Open Face and Open" types. I don't really like these and would require a lot of work to fix clipping with gags and blindfolds. I don't even want to show screenshots of them.

 

I also worked on something else, the Face Masks. There was only a single version simply called "Face Mask". I wonder how many people knew this device even existed. While it appears to be a gag it was setup as a hood which it's clearly not. Did the necessary CK work so now the Face Masks function as a gag.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

They're nothing amazing just an unused device that required similar work as the hoods and didn't have any color variants either. I created a new LeveledList for these face masks and added that to the list that contains all the other gags. So any mod that spawns random devices through these lists the face mask should appear where the other gags would.

 

Here's the file for testing and for merging by Kimy (if she wants):

HoodExpansion.7z 5.15 MB · 0 downloads

 

FOR KIMY: In case you haven't already done so the plugin also fixes the TextureSet issues for the new Black, Red, and White versions of belts, bras, collars and cuffs. They were using the gold textures. Couldn't help myself and also added "Open" versions of the new colored chastity belts.

 

Fantastic! Thank you!

[naaitsab]

@UnEvenSteven I've posted some retextures some posts ago (DD Lustrous is the latest) if you want to colorcheck those feel free to do so. Especially the white and red can be a bit flaky to match with all ENB's around. So another pair of eyes can't hurt.

 

As for the slick hoods, how about an in-between with a lockable zipper? It keeps the smooth look of the default but "DD-ifies" it.

Edited May 28, 2022 by naaitsab

[UnEvenSteven]

4 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

 

I am a complete ametour in these things but I do know seemlessness is a huge deal. This is not what I meant to ask for.

What I was refering to is the part of the leather that "sits loose on the shoulder" below the collar that comes with the hood, as in this image here:

 

And my question is if it won't clip with different bodytypes, and if it wouldn't be safer to have the hood end with the collar.

 

 

The part that sits loose on the shoulder shouldn't clip with different body types. The original mesh did clip with the shoulders of a naked body so the hood had to be loosened up. This also helps with clipping with the various suits.

 

I made an attempt with having the hood end at the collar and when testing with other devices and collars there was nothing but clipping. Clipping, clipping and more clipping.  Oh, did I mention clipping?

 

If I was to make an attempt at fixing the clipping issues then the neck area of the hood would have to be increased in size to cover every collar, except restrictive because that'd be impossible, and suit to prevent clipping. At that point the neck area would hover very far from the your character's neck it would look horrible. The usual suspects would complain about that.

 

Alternatively I could decrease the size of the neck area and make it tight on the neck. However I would have to edit dozens of meshes from both CBBE and UUNP to make collars and suits fit properly with the decreased neck area size of the hoods. While doing this I'd have to make other devices aren't clipping horribly with each other now after editing so many. It's far more work then you, or others, think it will be.

 

Remember the hoods are largely unchanged aside from the extras I've done. The "extra-material-that-sits-loose-on-the-shoulder" was already part of the of the original mesh. 

 

I compromised because you can't have both the seamless look and little to no clipping, not without a fuck-ton of work. I felt having the hoods hide collars and increasing the size of the neck area to diminish clipping was the best and quickest solution.

 

 

4 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

 

In that case, either my DD (which is the latest beta) or DCL act oddly in that regard, because I 100% get gag-talk when wearing hoods without gags, and have never had hoods and gags at the same time before

 

 

 

That's what I meant when I said hoods don't prevent speech. Yes you still get "gag-talk" with hoods but you will always succeed when attempting to talk to an NPC. If however your character is also wearing a ball gag underneath the hood then you will not succeed in gag talk. Ball gags don't allow for speech.

 

Honestly it's a shame the 'Gag Talk" system was removed, or disabled, from the Framework. With all the different gags we have now it'd be great to see the system return in some fashion. Each type of gag would have a pre-configured chance of gag-talk to succeed, ranging from somewhat easy to mostly impossible. IIRC there were consequences if you failed at gag-talk, NPCs would take advantage of your characters or would tighten your bindings or something. That part wouldn't have to return, just the gag-talk success chances.

 

I imagine hoods and the face masks would be the easiest to succeed at since they'd only muffle your speech. Ring gags, and Panel gags without the plug would come next in increasing difficulty. Panel gags with the plug would come next and be fairly difficult to succeed gag-talk. Regular Ball gags would be quite difficult and have a low chance of succeeding, the Large Ball gags would be next to impossible.

[thedarkone1234]

22 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

That's what I meant when I said hoods don't prevent speech. Yes you still get "gag-talk" with hoods but you will always succeed when attempting to talk to an NPC. If however your character is also wearing a ball gag underneath the hood then you will not succeed in gag talk. Ball gags don't allow for speech.

 

Honestly it's a shame the 'Gag Talk" system was removed, or disabled, from the Framework. With all the different gags we have now it'd be great to see the system return in some fashion. Each type of gag would have a pre-configured chance of gag-talk to succeed, ranging from somewhat easy to mostly impossible. IIRC there were consequences if you failed at gag-talk, NPCs would take advantage of your characters or would tighten your bindings or something. That part wouldn't have to return, just the gag-talk success chances.

 

I imagine hoods and the face masks would be the easiest to succeed at since they'd only muffle your speech. Ring gags, and Panel gags without the plug would come next in increasing difficulty. Panel gags with the plug would come next and be fairly difficult to succeed gag-talk. Regular Ball gags would be quite difficult and have a low chance of succeeding, the Large Ball gags would be next to impossible.

 

Ah, I see. It probably is the DCL gag-talk system overwriting any differences between different gags.

 

 

Maybe the DCL gag-talk system should be moved into DD then. Most of the consequences of failure in DCL gagtalk are DD-dependant, aside from a few ones which are DCL-dependant (such as the slut collar or the belt of shame), and if the main thing was moved to DD, DCL could merely be adding to the "punishment pool" from DD (and other mods that would wish to add consequences to gag talk could do the same thing, and if all mods that do that use the MCM "weight system" like DCL often does, they could all play nicely together all sitting on the same framework)

 

Also it would make a little more room in the DCL MCM, since DD's MCM is not nearly as big and it doesn't have "size issues"

[qawsedrftg765]

@UnEvenSteven Impressive

Edited May 29, 2022 by qawsedrftg765

[Nathriel]

Heya all. I noticed a little bug when Nemesis is used instead (or on top) of FNIS. Now I don't know how much of a priority Nemesis compatibility is or whether you want to put a lot of time in that, but I'd thought I'd mention it regardless, because I hadn't seen anyone else mention this.

 

The issue is that when Nemesis is used and you wear an armbinder (or elbowbinder) and you go into attack mode and start walking, the arms pop out as seen in the screenshot below:

Spoiler

 

Do note that this is only when moving while in attack mode. Standing still, moving normally, etc all look as normal.

And unless I am forgetting something, it only seems to be happening to armbinders and elbowbinders. I tried it out with a straitjacket and the problem didn't occur there.

 

Also, the screenshot above was made using a test profile with just the bare essentials for DD.

 

Oh and one last thing, I am using SSE with 5.2 Beta 4.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Nathriel

[chaimhewast]

3 hours ago, Nathriel said:

Heya all. I noticed a little bug when Nemesis is used instead (or on top) of FNIS. Now I don't know how much of a priority Nemesis compatibility is or whether you want to put a lot of time in that, but I'd thought I'd mention it regardless, because I hadn't seen anyone else mention this.

Nemesis being incompatible is a known bug. To my knowledge, there's no plans of fixing it.

[Nathriel]

7 minutes ago, chaimhewast said:

Nemesis being incompatible is a known bug. To my knowledge, there's no plans of fixing it.

Fair enough.

That said, unless I am missing something, this seems to be the only thing not working right with Nemesis.

[circuit]

Seems to be a weird issue with some device names in this latest build.  It seems to just be these chastity harnesses.

enb 2022_05_29 14_49_08_07.bmp

[circuit]

On 5/27/2022 at 12:52 PM, UnEvenSteven said:

The hoods will now hide collars, gags and blindfolds to help prevent clipping though this will seem odd with the Restrictive Collar.

Hiding gags and blindfolds is a good idea, but I personally think hiding collars is a big miss-step, because that means you can have a hood and a restrictive collar showing together.