Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[kurotatsu]

7 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

By the way, after about 30 hours of a playthrough with DCL I didn't ever get restrictive boots (the none-pony variant which is more than thigh high, which is my favorite). Could it be that they bugged out of the leveled lists in the beta versions of DD and cannot appear at random (or maybe they are simply too "far" in the leveled lists and DCL thinks the list is shorter?

 

Turned off everything else and after some time got them. I guess it was infamous RNG for you

[Kimy]

8 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

By the way, after about 30 hours of a playthrough with DCL I didn't ever get restrictive boots (the none-pony variant which is more than thigh high, which is my favorite). Could it be that they bugged out of the leveled lists in the beta versions of DD and cannot appear at random (or maybe they are simply too "far" in the leveled lists and DCL thinks the list is shorter?

 

I am not aware of anything being wrong with DCL's drop system, but I can have a look at it.

[circuit]

3 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

@Kimy Is it possible to add the vanilla Dremora race to the armor Add-On entries? I don't want to do that myself again with each update...

Instead of editing the main file in the mean time, you could make an add-on mod that changes things like BRRF does; then you'd only have to add in new items, an not re-do everything whenever a new version comes out.

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

@Kimy Is it possible to add the vanilla Dremora race to the armor Add-On entries? I don't want to do that myself again with each update...

 

After all these years DD has been out, I had no idea it not being added there was a problem? oO

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, nameless701 said:

What I would like to see is the help function for arm binders etc like in DCUR.

 

...Possibly also a standallone version of the DCUR-Prison...

 

Standalone versions of any DCL features are not planned and extremely unlikely to happen. DCL's components are very highly integrated and depend on each other. It would be a lot of work to rip one of them out and make it standalone. I don't see the point, either. Most of DCL's features can be switched off if people don't like them, so they can use only the desired ones.

[Pfiffy]

7 minutes ago, Kimy said:

 

After all these years DD has been out, I had no idea it not being added there was a problem? oO

Well, You do it once foe each and every Armor-addon entrie and then only for the new stuff... I have to do it each and every time again and again for all...(for AE I have to do it also for the Golden Saints and the Dark Seducers...) Is there any easy way of doing this?

[Pfiffy]

19 minutes ago, circuit said:

Instead of editing the main file in the mean time, you could make an add-on mod that changes things like BRRF does; then you'd only have to add in new items, an not re-do everything whenever a new version comes out.

Sure, but this only works if you don't have any conflicting patches overwriting each other...

[Kimy]

20 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Well, You do it once foe each and every Armor-addon entrie and then only for the new stuff... I have to do it each and every time again and again for all...(for AE I have to do it also for the Golden Saints and the Dark Seducers...) Is there any easy way of doing this?

 

No, I don't understand why this race has to be tagged in the first place. In all these years if me maintaining DD, that's the first time I am getting told it to be a problem. Is this an SE/AE thing?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Kimy

[Pfiffy]

9 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

No, I don't understand why this race has to be tagged in the first place. In all these years if me maintaining DD, that's the first time I am getting told it to be a problem. Is this an SE/AE thing?

No... It is a Paradise Halls thing. If it was about AE I would also ask for the Golden Saints and the Dark Seducers... 

[naaitsab]

I would suggest making a script for Tes5Edit to automate the adding of the record. Don't think the FW should be edited for 1 specific mod/usecase as all other mods that rely on DD with own devices will also need to make the changes to stay in sync.

[Pfiffy]

4 hours ago, naaitsab said:

I would suggest making a script for Tes5Edit to automate the adding of the record. Don't think the FW should be edited for 1 specific mod/usecase as all other mods that rely on DD with own devices will also need to make the changes to stay in sync.

Mods that rely on DD usually deal with the Armor entries, not with the armor add-on entries. And the Dremoras are a vanilla Race using the default Body. (In the vanilla game there are only male Dremoras, so it might be easier to just edit the DD for him.esp.)  

[Roggvir]

Considering the fact that Dremora is a vanilla game's humanoid race, which is really just a dark elf, only with a different skine tone and weird voice, it is an oversight.
It makes sense for it to be supported out of the box.

Which makes me think of the Afflicted - are they supported?

If not, they should be too, because from technical perspective, like dremoras and dark elves, afflicted are nords, just with a different skin and very "special" throw up ability

 

There is no technical challenge, you already have ALL the data you need, the races are ALL in vanilla game.

It doesn't make sense not to support any of these "redundant" vanilla game's races out of the box.

 

It really is the same as if ignorig bretons, while supporting nords and imperials and whatnot, and saying "oh, but FW shouldn't be edited for that 1 or 2 specific mod/usecases where you run into some bretons in the magic college or something".

That doesn't seem like a sound argument to me.

[Roggvir]

5 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

(In the vanilla game there are only male Dremoras, so it might be easier to just edit the DD for him.esp.)

I wish you wouldn't mention that.

I am working on a mod where i do have female dremoras based on the vanilla game race, and now thanks to you, they will lack the DD support for ever ?

(unless i make a patch for DD, creating a new source of possible incompatibilities and conflicts for other people to deal with )

[naaitsab]

4 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Mods that rely on DD usually deal with the Armor entries, not with the armor add-on entries. And the Dremoras are a vanilla Race using the default Body. (In the vanilla game there are only male Dremoras, so it might be easier to just edit the DD for him.esp.)  

Well guess you gave your own answer why it's not there  DD was designed for female races/characters from the beginning. As there are no female Dremoras ingame there is/was no need to tag it. And mods using custom textured devices do use their own AA's.

[Kimy]

13 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

No... It is a Paradise Halls thing. If it was about AE I would also ask for the Golden Saints and the Dark Seducers... 

 

I had no idea Paradise Halls had DD support. I always thought it was a ZAP-only mod...

 

Aaaanyway, I have no problem with it being added to the framework, even if only one mod really profits from it. I can't see any harmful effects from doing so. The one thing I'd ask for though, is somebody having a stake in it contribute the addition. It's quite some work and I'd rather put my limited time into features useful to a broad selection of content mods.

[Pfiffy]

12 minutes ago, Kimy said:

 

I had no idea Paradise Halls had DD support. I always thought it was a ZAP-only mod...

It has a patch for DD now, so that the wearing of Devices account to the training... Nice Stuff. 

 

12 minutes ago, Kimy said:

 

Aaaanyway, I have no problem with it being added to the framework, even if only one mod really profits from it. I can't see any harmful effects from doing so. The one thing I'd ask for though, is somebody having a stake in it contribute the addition. It's quite some work and I'd rather put my limited time into features useful to a broad selection of content mods.

OK, I have to go through the ESM's and then edit the DD for him again, I think. Therefor I need the most recent version, even if it is a beta and some time...After that only the new content needs to be checked by you. 

[Pfiffy]

7 hours ago, Roggvir said:

I wish you wouldn't mention that.

I am working on a mod where i do have female dremoras based on the vanilla game race, and now thanks to you, they will lack the DD support for ever ?

(unless i make a patch for DD, creating a new source of possible incompatibilities and conflicts for other people to deal with )

You would have stumbled over this in the same way that I did... But there must be an easier way of doing it, because I have some other custom races which didn't make any problems.   

[Code Serpent]

2 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

You would have stumbled over this in the same way that I did... But there must be an easier way of doing it, because I have some other custom races which didn't make any problems.   

The reason for this is most custom race mods utilize 'Armor Copying', where all armoraddon forms treat one race as another. You can see this with the vanilla Vampire races. The HighElfVampire race has the HighElf race set as the race to copy armor meshes from. If custom races didn't do this, they would have the same issue you're having, where no non-vanilla armor would be wearable by the custom race, so they just all use Imperials or Bretons as their 'Armor Race'. Honestly, it would be much much easier for you to crack open the creation kit, and set the Dremora's 'Armor Race' to Dark Elves or something in a personal patch.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Code Serpent

[zarantha]

@Kimy

 

Alright, I've been away for a while due to laptop repairs so I missed a beta, but I'm back for this new one.

 

I don't see it in the changelogs for beta 5 and 6, but I'd like to make sure. We're done messing with the bodyslides right? The new outfits are just recolors and not actual new nifs?

Edited May 15, 2022 by zarantha

[thedarkone1234]

If the bodyslides are all done, what are the chances of DCL to get a hot-patch for replacing old models with new models (in particular the exhibitionist suit, the rubber suit and the slave suit [The 5 pieces that each demand several keys, like in Damsel in Distress]?

 

I mean, I never had complained about the old models but now they are by far inferior to what I get in random drops ?

 

And I am probably sure it would work without a new game and will take a lot less time than waiting for the next content version (which I am still very anticipating of course )

[circuit]

21 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

The reason for this is most custom race mods utilize 'Armor Copying', where all armoraddon forms treat one race as another. You can see this with the vanilla Vampire races. The HighElfVampire race has the HighElf race set as the race to copy armor meshes from. If custom races didn't do this, they would have the same issue you're having, where no non-vanilla armor would be wearable by the custom race, so they just all use Imperials or Bretons as their 'Armor Race'. Honestly, it would be much much easier for you to crack open the creation kit, and set the Dremora's 'Armor Race' to Dark Elves or something in a personal patch.

  Hide contents

 

Indeed.

An even easier way to solve the Dremora problem would be to simply alter the race file to use Dark Elf armor~.

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

If the bodyslides are all done, what are the chances of DCL to get a hot-patch for replacing old models with new models (in particular the exhibitionist suit, the rubber suit and the slave suit [The 5 pieces that each demand several keys, like in Damsel in Distress]?

 

I mean, I never had complained about the old models but now they are by far inferior to what I get in random drops ?

 

And I am probably sure it would work without a new game and will take a lot less time than waiting for the next content version (which I am still very anticipating of course )

 

When DD 5.2 is finalized, I will indeed work on a new DCL patch. Most devices dropped by DCL should automatically use the new DD ones, even the retextured ones. For some models that ship with DCL, there is no replacement in DD though.

[Pfiffy]

On 5/14/2022 at 11:02 PM, Code Serpent said:

The reason for this is most custom race mods utilize 'Armor Copying', where all armoraddon forms treat one race as another. You can see this with the vanilla Vampire races. The HighElfVampire race has the HighElf race set as the race to copy armor meshes from. If custom races didn't do this, they would have the same issue you're having, where no non-vanilla armor would be wearable by the custom race, so they just all use Imperials or Bretons as their 'Armor Race'. Honestly, it would be much much easier for you to crack open the creation kit, and set the Dremora's 'Armor Race' to Dark Elves or something in a personal patch.

  Hide contents

 

If it is that easy, it will save me a lot of work....I spend a week on messing around with the AE Golden saints, Daedra of Cold Harbor an the Daedric Museum of Artifacts. Now I have a lot of sexy powerful potential followers/slaves/playthings an they need some new clothes...

 

EDIT: Changing that for the deadra of cold harbor races wrecks the body tints....  

 

@KimyBTW: I'm missing some variants of the boots: red and white Pony play boots, and slave ballet heels heels.   

Edited May 15, 2022 by Pfiffy

[thedarkone1234]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

When DD 5.2 is finalized, I will indeed work on a new DCL patch. Most devices dropped by DCL should automatically use the new DD ones, even the retextured ones. For some models that ship with DCL, there is no replacement in DD though.

 

I was actually referring exactly to these unique items. The exhibitionist suit (which now looks like the old transparent suit) could use the same model as the new transparent suit. The damsel in distress set could use the new suit and hood models rather than the old ones, and so on. The only item which has nothing like it in appearance that I can think of, is "The veil", which is less of a big deal because it is only a blindfold. I just think it would be a shame that quest items that have regular "twins" will remain the only outdated models around as long as we can help it.

 

Or maybe this is exactly what you meant to say all along and I was just too dumb to understand you correctly XD

[zarantha]

DD SE 5.2 Beta 6 conversion

 

• Mega link: https://mega.nz/file/NX43RSxT#lQZx7C9ftiXPlVzzVn_HXYmt9P3WfXlq5hDUn2NNgp4
• Google Drive mirror: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1siWdCHdMsZD85VAChRlwVoE6Kp0xt39V/view?usp=sharing