Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[naaitsab]

55 minutes ago, chaimhewast said:

I thought it was more that Roggvir (the person doing the conversion) had IRL obligations and couldn't finish it in time for 5.2's release.

As far as I can recall it was shelved because Kimy only wants to implement it in DD if it's a drop-in replacement for FNIS. Which it is not as it also requires code changes. And I don't think there is an easy way to make it compatible with both systems. Also I believe one of the statements was not wanting to support 2 animation systems. Which is kinda understandable. The compromise was for Rogg to supply it as a separate mod but I haven't followed on the progress of that.

 

At the time the entire DAR-drama from the author over not making a AE version and refusing to share the code, did not help it like at all. I still think DAR is not a viable FNIS replacement until Bethesda stops messing around with the exe of Skyrim or the code goes open-source so other modders can update it in the future. Until then it's too volatile for my taste. Especially with another DLC shitfest probably happening soon with the 'Marketplace' repo of Skyrim.

[krzp]

5 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

That has been discussed and is intended in a future update. As far as I understood, (I'm no modder, just a casual user) DAR isn't as stable as you'd wish over on SE.

Might be that using DAR breaks downward compatibility for old, no longer supported mods. Should be in the thread some pages around the last update.

I've been using DAR since last year, and haven't found any problems with it. Moved on to OAR not that long ago, the soon to be released open-source DAR upgrade, again no problems - and I am on SE. All it does is replace the movement animations, which were previously replaced by FNIS Alternating Animations, but does it via SKSE plugin, and does it super fast - so no mods should be incompatible with that? If any other mod wants to override the movements, FNIS/Nemesis takes priority over DAR anyways.

 

I'm a casual user myself, but I'm trying to try to move the DAR/OAR thing forward in Roggvirs, hopefully, temporary absence, so I'm troubleshooting the combat implementation which has some problems for FNIS users.  

 

59 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

At the time the entire DAR-drama from the author over not making a AE version and refusing to share the code, did not help it like at all.

Hopefully, the upcoming OAR release from the author of TDM and Precision helps, that man is a skyrim coding wizard, i think. ?

[krzp]

And, I mean, don't take it from me, see what the person who created DD's combat implementation had to say about that:

Quote

As far as I'm concerned, DAR makes FNIS AA completely redundant. I cannot imagine a single reason to retain the archaic FNIS implementation of the same thing, but significantly worse.

So I'm a little puzzled. Why do you want to keep FNIS AA as an option? Unless I'm missing something, all that such a legacy option would do is inflate the FOMOD installation process and give users a bad choice they shouldn't even consider now that DAR has completely superseded it.

Is there anything I could do to help erase all traces of FNIS AA from DD and put those embarrassing past mistakes behind me so we could all pretend it never happened? ^^

 

Quote

If after testing this, you are still not convinced that FNIS AA has been rendered completely and utterly redundant, I rest my case. Obviously FNIS itself is still used for active animations, such as Sexlab doing its thing, but it should no longer be ALLOWED to replace vanilla behaviours like running, combat, idles, etc. For that, I think DAR is the superior solution, which requires only minimal input from the modder, and absolutely none from the user, while putting no humanly measurable strain on performance.

 

link and link

 

If that's not a convincing argument - I don't know what is.

[naaitsab]

6 minutes ago, krzzp said:

And, I mean, don't take it from me, see what the person who created DD's combat implementation had to say about that:

 

 

link and link

 

If that's not a convincing argument - I don't know what is.

Well technically it might be superior, but support wise it's way-way worse. So proclaiming it's the end all be all solution whilst ignoring this issue entirely is a bit bluntly. As long as it's not open-sourced it's not a suitable successor to FNIS in the games current state. As the author, which seems to be 1 person has clearly shown their attitude towards the modding scene is "less then ideal". And it being fully depended on updates when Bethesda decides to update the game out of nowhere. 

 

Maybe when Starfield launches they can finally leave Skyrim alone so we can fully switch to nice things like DAR without having to worry about updates breaking most of our mods. But until then I can fully understand the reasoning to stick to FNIS as the official tool. Of course a mod for DD to add support for DAR would still be nice. Which in the future could be merged if everything calms down and settles. Or perhaps one of the "competing" solutions in the make after the debacle might prove to function even better like being less reliant on exe changes.

[Taki17]

Since DD5.2 was released, I have collected several more things to fix, and there being some major issues with devices among them, I bring you another edition of Small DD Fixes, to be merged into the main repository.

 

In this contribution is contained:

• All collarless slave harnesses had the wrong interaction message assigned to them, thus making them unable to be removed with keys. This has been corrected by assigning the proper message to all of them.
• Included a missing ground model mesh for the transparent long gloves
• Added some missing beds to the bed formlist. Now the player cannot be soft locked in places like the Whiterun jail if they are jailed while wearing hand restraints, cannot pick the lock and were prevented from serving the sentence due to interaction with the prison bed being disabled.
• Leveled list maintenance: added missing leveled lists for bondage mittens and pet suits, subdivided the corsets leveled list into regular corsets and chastity corsets (and open- and closed variants of the latter)
• Consolidated the names of straitjackets, as the same item types were sometimes being tagged as "Open" and sometimes as "Topless"
• Rephrased active effect descriptions of several DD magic effects to sound consistent with base game magic effect descriptions
• Expanded the zadPlugScript a bit, by preventing plugs from being equipped or removed with bound hands, and a messagebox informing you of this. This is now consistent with how no other device is being able to be equipped/unequipped with bound hands, all the while making plugs just a touch more devious.

small_DD_fixes_for_5-2.7z

Edited May 20, 2023 by Taki17

[Murphiee]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:01 PM, naaitsab said:

You need to define the function differently.

 

On every game load you need to re-register the events to start with. Otherwise they can get unloaded in the save. So using a script attached to the playerref alias using the on save load is the preferred way to go. Then define the events with their own custom name.

 

Do you happen to know a mod which has this implementation proper, my brain feels like mush and i think it would be easier if i could learn from an example.

Mainly the attach script to playerref and on save load part.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Murphiee

[chaimhewast]

1 hour ago, naaitsab said:

As long as it's not open-sourced it's not a suitable successor to FNIS in the games current state

That was the reason why Ershin started work on Open Animation Replacer. I can't see the full post because I'm not a patron, but there was a release post for what sounds like a release candidate 5 days ago.

[krzp]

4 hours ago, naaitsab said:

As long as it's not open-sourced it's not a suitable successor

Somebody already created an open-sourced version, iirc.

https://github.com/noxsidereum/dargh

 

Plus, with Open Animation Replacer on the horizon, it's about to get even more interesting.

[naaitsab]

12 hours ago, Murphiee said:

Do you happen to know a mod which has this implementation proper, my brain feels like mush and i think it would be easier if i could learn from an example.

Mainly the attach script to playerref and on save load part.

You can look on my redux version of Sacrefical Spriggans https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/16972-sacrificial-spriggan-redux

Specifically the scriptfile "Spriggan_PlayerScr.psc"

 

11 hours ago, chaimhewast said:

That was the reason why Ershin started work on Open Animation Replacer. I can't see the full post because I'm not a patron, but there was a release post for what sounds like a release candidate 5 days ago.

 

9 hours ago, krzzp said:

Somebody already created an open-sourced version, iirc.

https://github.com/noxsidereum/dargh

 

Plus, with Open Animation Replacer on the horizon, it's about to get even more interesting.

If that project comes to life and works as intended it could be a good candidate. Their butthurt attitude has kickstarted these open source projects so it's quite funny to see it bounce back and cutting them in the nose  I think this usecase makes quite a strong point in a requirement for source files if you want to upload a exe-dependent mod to the Nexus. Combined with a clear policy on abandonware on these types of mods. And sharing source files does not automatically neglects any credits/copyright which for some reason is a persistent myth around the subject.

 

I still can't get my head around why you would put, I presume a lot of time and effort into something and then acting like this when AE comes around. I can fully understand they don't want to update it. But at least release it to others who do want to do that so the players can continue to use it, and not get stuck on a old version and require to do all kind of tricks with old file copies resulting in some kind of janky setup.

[Murphiee]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:40 AM, naaitsab said:

You can look on my redux version of Sacrefical Spriggans https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/16972-sacrificial-spriggan-redux

Specifically the scriptfile "Spriggan_PlayerScr.psc"

Got it working, Thank you.

[Kimy]

On 5/20/2023 at 8:47 AM, naaitsab said:

As far as I can recall it was shelved because Kimy only wants to implement it in DD if it's a drop-in replacement for FNIS. Which it is not as it also requires code changes. And I don't think there is an easy way to make it compatible with both systems. Also I believe one of the statements was not wanting to support 2 animation systems. Which is kinda understandable. The compromise was for Rogg to supply it as a separate mod but I haven't followed on the progress of that.

 

At the time the entire DAR-drama from the author over not making a AE version and refusing to share the code, did not help it like at all. I still think DAR is not a viable FNIS replacement until Bethesda stops messing around with the exe of Skyrim or the code goes open-source so other modders can update it in the future. Until then it's too volatile for my taste. Especially with another DLC shitfest probably happening soon with the 'Marketplace' repo of Skyrim.

 

I have no problem with the DAR patch requiring some code changes. From how I understand it, I do not expect the patch to need to make changes to more than one source file. I would just make the installer overwrite the FNIS implementation with the DAR one, if people select DAR during installation. That's not an issue. I am not ready to fully replace FNIS with DAR at this time though, so that's where the "drop-in replacement" requirement came from.

 

I am not privy to whatever seems to be going on behind the DAR scenes there, though. I am not following its development.

[krzp]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

I have no problem with the DAR patch requiring some code changes. From how I understand it, I do not expect the patch to need to make changes to more than one source file. I would just make the installer overwrite the FNIS implementation with the DAR one, if people select DAR during installation. That's not an issue. I am not ready to fully replace FNIS with DAR at this time though, so that's where the "drop-in replacement" requirement came from.

I can prepare a folder structure, similar to what DD does with it's regular install, but for DAR - but this will increase the download size for about 30-40 megabytes, because the animations for DAR have different names (without the abc* prefixes), so I can't reuse the existing folder structure, if I correctly understand how the FOMOD thingie works.

 

If that's ok, I'll start working towards this, as we are sort of beta-testing the drop-in thing right now. ?

 

And, yeah, it's going to modify one script and it's psc source, three .hkx, and three .txt files.

 

[merryMalfunctioning]

1 hour ago, krzp said:

I can prepare a folder structure, similar to what DD does with it's regular install, but for DAR - but this will increase the download size for about 30-40 megabytes, because the animations for DAR have different names (without the abc* prefixes), so I can't reuse the existing folder structure, if I correctly understand how the FOMOD thingie works.

 

If that's ok, I'll start working towards this, as we are sort of beta-testing the drop-in thing right now. ?

 

And, yeah, it's going to modify one script and it's psc source, three .hkx, and three .txt files.

 

 

You might consider holding out until OAR is released, because it's going to have a lot more features than DAR -- including things like giving names to the animation subfolders, controlling whether animations are interruptible, more sophisticated conditions, a GUI editor for configuration files, etc. And it's going to be released pretty soon.

[Hex Bolt]

Doesn't OAR only support SE/AE/VR?  Perhaps someone who's subscribed to Ersh's Patreon can answer, but a Reddit post from 5 month ago says "Compatible with SE, AE, AE 1.6.640+, and VR. Only tested on SE."  Since DD is developed on LE, use of OAR would be a problem unless Ersh intends to backport it when the public release is ready.

[krzp]

1 hour ago, markdf said:

You might consider holding out until OAR is released, because it's going to have a lot more features than DAR -- including things like giving names to the animation subfolders, controlling whether animations are interruptible, more sophisticated conditions, a GUI editor for configuration files, etc. And it's going to be released pretty soon.

While I'm all for it, as OAR seems like a much better and more flexible solution, and by the time DD gets an official DAR update it'll probably be out in public, we are trying to increase compatibility. And OAR is fully compatible with DAR, but not the other way around.

 

So, i'd stick with DAR for the time being for maximum compatibility, and then we'll see how quickly comes the mass OAR adoption.

The conversion to OAR can be done relatively quickly (in fact, someone already did that!)

[krzp]

53 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Doesn't OAR only support SE/AE/VR?  Perhaps someone who's subscribed to Ersh's Patreon can answer, but a Reddit post from 5 month ago says "Compatible with SE, AE, AE 1.6.640+, and VR. Only tested on SE."  Since DD is developed on LE, use of OAR would be a problem unless Ersh intends to backport it when the public release is ready.

Yup, that's what it says there too.

 

I don't think he will backport it, though, this is what Precision's Nexus page has to say about LE:
 

Spoiler

Legendary Edition version?

I'm sorry, but no. Special Edition's engine is much more stable and frameworks like CommonLibSSE allow much easier implementation of advanced plugins. It's really time to move on. However, feel free to try porting the mod to LE if you're up to the challenge. I'd rather spend my time on something else than supporting an outdated version of the game.

 

[ihatemykite]

On 5/20/2023 at 1:23 PM, 1947421196 said:

 

OK now I have found the mt_idle.hkx. As you suggested that abcx_mt_turnleftxx.hkx are not working that well, I'm going to use default standing idle animation as you did. 

Then I searched the whole DD5.2 and DD to DAR folders, didn't find any "npc_turnxxxxxxx" files, only "sneak_npcturnxxxxxxxx". 

After carefully read your second last post, I assume the whole process is like this:

1. Create another folder called male next to female folder, and copy all the animations to it (folder by folder?)
2. Find "mt_idle.hkx", make 8 copies, name them "npc_turnxxxxxxx" as your post, then put them into each folder (xxx001-xxx300?)
3. In using DD_DAR case, should I just put them in DD_DAR folder, or in both DD and DD-DAR folder?

The npc_turnxxx animations doesn't exist,. That is why you have to add them. Just copy the animations I mentioned and rename them to npc_turnxxxx.

[chaimhewast]

9 hours ago, krzp said:

And, yeah, it's going to modify one script and it's psc source, three .hkx, and three .txt files.

Do you happen to know if that script in particular is one that you can safely swap out in an active game? I played around with OAR over the weekend and liked what I saw, but I'm dreading redoing all the configs that I set up beforehand.

[krzp]

3 hours ago, chaimhewast said:

Do you happen to know if that script in particular is one that you can safely swap out in an active game? I played around with OAR over the weekend and liked what I saw, but I'm dreading redoing all the configs that I set up beforehand.

I've swapped it out a few times after and it worked, but your mileage may vary, obviously ?

[chaimhewast]

53 minutes ago, krzp said:

I've swapped it out a few times after and it worked, but your mileage may vary, obviously ?

I'll give it a shot when I get the chance then. The configs would be the big loss, since I only had about a half hour's worth of actual playing in that save.

[naaitsab]

OAR is released, judging from the description it should be what is says on the tin and what most where waiting for. A fully open-source and 100% DAR-compatible successor. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/92109

 

It won't come to LE so this might be a small hickup. I guess it would result in a mod/addon for DD as it won't be possible to make it code compatible with both?

Edited June 2, 2023 by naaitsab

[kurotatsu]

If I'm understanding this correctly - DD can be made DAR-compatible, DAR exists for LE too. OAR is fully DAR-compatible, so if it works with DAR - it should work with OAR too, right?

[Mister X]

Heyho, small question: 

 

what's needed to be able to lock an actor in a contraption? No devices are worn at that moment and no scene is running. The only thing is that SetPlayerAIDriven() is true, is that a mistake?

 

That's the code I have right now to try and get a sex scene. The function that holds this snippet is called AFTER the end of a scene with the player, so they shouldn't be part of any scene anymore, right?

    Contrap = DDC.BobTheBuilder(DDC.zadc_Pillory2)
    TeleportIn.Play(Contrap)
    Utility.Wait(2.0)
    If DDC.LockActor(DD.PlayerRef, Contrap)
        If DDC.PlaySexScene(DD.PlayerRef, Urag)
            Self.RegisterForModEvent("PlayerTrack_End", "OnSLSceneEnd")
            return
        Else
            Debug.Trace("[Forbidden Tome] Couldn't start contraption sex!")
        EndIf
    Else
        Debug.Trace("[Forbidden Tome] Couldn't lock player in contraption!")
    EndIf

 

This snippet always just gives me the message "couldn't lock player in contraption".

 

And yes, I currently try to rebuild the ancient "Forbidden Tome" quest ^^

[naaitsab]

11 minutes ago, kurotatsu said:

If I'm understanding this correctly - DD can be made DAR-compatible, DAR exists for LE too. OAR is fully DAR-compatible, so if it works with DAR - it should work with OAR too, right?

It should, I'm not familiar if it works the to the same degree on LE so that is something to check. If it also fixes the laggy AA sets on LE it could be quite a no-brainer to get it adopted.

 

11 minutes ago, Mister X said:

Heyho, small question: 

 

what's needed to be able to lock an actor in a contraption? No devices are worn at that moment and no scene is running. The only thing is that SetPlayerAIDriven() is true, is that a mistake?

 

That's the code I have right now to try and get a sex scene. The function that holds this snippet is called AFTER the end of a scene with the player, so they shouldn't be part of any scene anymore, right?

    Contrap = DDC.BobTheBuilder(DDC.zadc_Pillory2)
    TeleportIn.Play(Contrap)
    Utility.Wait(2.0)
    If DDC.LockActor(DD.PlayerRef, Contrap)
        If DDC.PlaySexScene(DD.PlayerRef, Urag)
            Self.RegisterForModEvent("PlayerTrack_End", "OnSLSceneEnd")
            return
        Else
            Debug.Trace("[Forbidden Tome] Couldn't start contraption sex!")
        EndIf
    Else
        Debug.Trace("[Forbidden Tome] Couldn't lock player in contraption!")
    EndIf

 

This snippet always just gives me the message "couldn't lock player in contraption".

 

And yes, I currently try to rebuild the ancient "Forbidden Tome" quest ^^

 

I would remove the scene trigger from the lockactor portion. The latent processing of the engine is quite atrocious and with the number of things lockactor does it could glitch out. When the PC is locked into the furniture you could start the scene.

 

I also have made some progress in updating the original tome quest to DD5. DM about it?

[chaimhewast]

58 minutes ago, kurotatsu said:

If I'm understanding this correctly - DD can be made DAR-compatible, DAR exists for LE too. OAR is fully DAR-compatible, so if it works with DAR - it should work with OAR too, right?

I've been playing with OAR using krzp's DAR conversion, and it works perfectly fine. My only gripe is that OAR seems to not re-evaluate conditions if you're standing still, but your character will snap into the proper animation as soon as you start moving.