HDT SMP for SSE?

[Tooneyman23]

5 hours ago, PhoenixTheSage said:

Well, I don't mean *everyone* because it depends on how they ask...many people don't really ask

HDT Equipment would be badass btw, but I don't know Papyrus, just C#/C++.

I know it would be badass.

 

Wait.... You know C++ and C#? I'm slowly learning C# for Unity. I'm really enjoying the experience. Doesn't enhanced camera and immersive first person view require C++? I remember looking at Meh321 files for IFPV and a few of them were C++? Question do you know how to compile a Dll?

[PhoenixTheSage]

54 minutes ago, Tooneyman23 said:

I know it would be badass.

 

Wait.... You know C++ and C#? I'm slowly learning C# for Unity. I'm really enjoying the experience. Doesn't enhanced camera and immersive first person view require C++? I remember looking at Meh321 files for IFPV and a few of them were C++? Question do you know how to compile a Dll?

I do...Was his source even open? I thought it wasn't.

[Vyxenne]

4 hours ago, Tooneyman23 said:

I remember looking at Meh321 files for IFPV and a few of them were C++?

It would be the height of awesomeness to have IFPV in SSE!

 

Also, I learned something about SMP last night that I thought I would share. I have the following declarations in my UUNP.xml:

 

 

I read that someone had changed "per-triangle-shape" to "per-vertex-shape" and gotten a significant increase in fps. So I did that, and I did indeed get about a 5-fps increase (from 45 to 50 in the Riften Market wearing HDT hair, earrings, amulet and body) so I felt all smug.

 

However, about an hour later, I belatedly noticed that my hair (KS Sky 188 Pony Tail SMP) kept clipping into my back. With a growing sense of foreboding, I changed it back to per-triangle-shape, and voilà! Hair-to-body collisions restored.

 

TL; DR: It's easy to get a performance boost by reducing SMP functionality.   Stick with per-triangle-shape.

[Tooneyman23]

7 hours ago, PhoenixTheSage said:

I do...Was his source even open? I thought it wasn't.

Really?.. Would you be willing to teach me, or send me a tutorial which would go about the process. I've tried compiling his code before, but I'm not sure all the calls are correct and may need to be adjust a little bit to make sure his mod gets setup properly. 

 

Meh321's source code is fully open for us to view for IFPV. Under the file section of his mod. He's got the source code setting and waiting to be compiled. I don't mind learning how to compile it, but I would have no idea where to start adding all the files together. I don't know if you'd like to view it, but here is the file section for times sake.

[Tooneyman23]

3 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

It would be the height of awesomeness to have IFPV in SSE!

 

Also, I learned something about SMP last night that I thought I would share. I have the following declarations in my UUNP.xml:

 

 

I read that someone had changed "per-triangle-shape" to "per-vertex-shape" and gotten a significant increase in fps. So I did that, and I did indeed get about a 5-fps increase (from 45 to 50 in the Riften Market wearing HDT hair, earrings, amulet and body) so I felt all smug.

 

However, about an hour later, I belatedly noticed that my hair (KS Sky 188 Pony Tail SMP) kept clipping into my back. With a growing sense of foreboding, I changed it back to per-triangle-shape, and voilà! Hair-to-body collisions restored.

 

TL; DR: It's easy to get a performance boost by reducing SMP functionality.   Stick with per-triangle-shape.

Oh, I completely agree with this. The vertex doesn't read the body setup very well. I think it's only good for special setups. I think I might be using vertex with HDT Equipment, but I'll only use it for certain ones like swords, axes, and maces on the side. I think anything on the back I'll have to use Triangle instead to keep it from clipping for the body. I'm already getting myself ready for a virtual ground and maybe a bodyshape if the back doesn't work out well. 

[PhoenixTheSage]

9 minutes ago, Tooneyman23 said:

Really?.. Would you be willing to teach me, or send me a tutorial which would go about the process. I've tried compiling his code before, but I'm not sure all the calls are correct and may need to be adjust a little bit to make sure his mod gets setup properly. 

 

Meh321's source code is fully open for us to view for IFPV. Under the file section of his mod. He's got the source code setting and waiting to be compiled. I don't mind learning how to compile it, but I would have no idea where to start adding all the files together. I don't know if you'd like to view it, but here is the file section for times sake.

Well, besides the fact that I myself am a student, I'm also not good at explaining things. You'd probably be better served by going over various tutorials and examples online.

 

Compiling different projects can vary wildly. If the person who setup their project hasn't documented things (dunno about Meh321 yet) it can potentially be a nightmare even for experienced people to figure out. Anyway, if you know how to use Visual Studio and have the solution setup properly (again, depends on the project and its documentation), building the library shouldn't be very hard.

[Tooneyman23]

45 minutes ago, PhoenixTheSage said:

Well, besides the fact that I myself am a student, I'm also not good at explaining things. You'd probably be better served by going over various tutorials and examples online.

 

Compiling different projects can vary wildly. If the person who setup their project hasn't documented things (dunno about Meh321 yet) it can potentially be a nightmare even for experienced people to figure out. Anyway, if you know how to use Visual Studio and have the solution setup properly (again, depends on the project and its documentation), building the library shouldn't be very hard.

I'm seeing how his setup is with the source code. It's a nightmare for sure, but I'll keep looking at it. I'm going to have to learn this stuff anyway so I might as well get started. I've figured out how to compile it, but it's got to be setup in the right folder applications which is going to take a long time. I see why people have issues creating dll with their codes. When I went to compile it I ran into 44 errors alone. =P However, I keep playing with it. 

 

For now back to converting HDT Equipment. IF anyone else wants to take a crack at a nightmare.. The code is there. But from the looks of it. Nobody seems to want to actually try... or just don't have the skills to do it. =P

[cminnow]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:23 AM, TheWilloughbian said:

Hey guys. I'm hoping I could ask a favour. I'm not really up to speed on the latest goings on with SMP and I'm feeling poorly equipped to offer support for the SMP Cape conversion I uploaded. I have it working in my game, but I'm still running the old version. I was wondering if someone would be willing to update the XML for the latest version of SMP and maybe help trouble shoot. Thanks.

I'm running the newest version and your old XMLs seem to work okay. There is still the strange problem where it can bunch up but it's easily corrected by turning or re-equipping.

 

Here's mine that works fine for females with no bunching but it may clip on fat characters. cloak.xml

[TheWilloughbian]

2 hours ago, cminnow said:

I'm running the newest version and your old XMLs seem to work okay. There is still the strange problem where it can bunch up but it's easily corrected by turning or re-equipping.

 

Here's mine that works fine for females with no bunching but it may clip on fat characters. cloak.xml

thank you.

[Yoxgg04]

Lately ive been getting CTD when starting a new game or doing load save when i went through all of my mods it indicated that my smp mods were the reason why could someone help me ?

[doisitrey]

12 hours ago, Yoxgg04 said:

Lately ive been getting CTD when starting a new game or doing load save when i went through all of my mods it indicated that my smp mods were the reason why could someone help me ?

 Disable it and try it without it to be 100% sure the CTD is caused by SMP. You could also provide us with your mod list, also, do you any Oldrim mods? did you convert them to SE?

The only bug I've been experienced with SMP is the FPS  where my fps drop to 0.1, but never a CTD by it.

[PhoenixTheSage]

6 hours ago, doisitrey said:

 Disable it and try it without it to be 100% sure the CTD is caused by SMP. You could also provide us with your mod list, also, do you any Oldrim mods? did you convert them to SE?

The only bug I've been experienced with SMP is the FPS  where my fps drop to 0.1, but never a CTD by it.

Even then, I've noticed loading into a new cell fixes the FPS problem with the SMP item causing it. Just in my testing with SMP cloaks of skyrim.

[Vyxenne]

24 minutes ago, PhoenixTheSage said:

Even then, I've noticed loading into a new cell fixes the FPS problem with the SMP item causing it. Just in my testing with SMP cloaks of skyrim.

Also unequipping then re-equipping the SMP item fixes it without the need to change cells. This is spectacularly quick and easy if you have lots of outfits in hotkeyed SkyUI Equipment Groups and/or AH Hotkeys EquipSets. I have 26 hotkeyed outfits so when I get the SMP chugging I just hit a different outfit hotkey, then switch back if I want to.

[PhoenixTheSage]

1 hour ago, Vyxenne said:

Also unequipping then re-equipping the SMP item fixes it without the need to change cells. This is spectacularly quick and easy if you have lots of outfits in hotkeyed SkyUI Equipment Groups and/or AH Hotkeys EquipSets. I have 26 hotkeyed outfits so when I get the SMP chugging I just hit a different outfit hotkey, then switch back if I want to.

Yes, but that's not really practical when NPC's may also be wearing SMP items that are currently causing the issue :3

Hopefully HDT will improve/fix it, because it's pretty clearly a bug.

[Vyxenne]

3 hours ago, PhoenixTheSage said:

4 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Also unequipping then re-equipping the SMP item fixes it without the need to change cells. This is spectacularly quick and easy if you have lots of outfits in hotkeyed SkyUI Equipment Groups and/or AH Hotkeys EquipSets. I have 26 hotkeyed outfits so when I get the SMP chugging I just hit a different outfit hotkey, then switch back if I want to.

Yes, but that's not really practical when NPC's may also be wearing SMP items that are currently causing the issue :3

Hopefully HDT will improve/fix it, because it's pretty clearly a bug.

Aha! Well, I didn't think of the NPC issue, mostly because my clunky old i5 GTX970 DDR3 machine doesn't allow me to give SMP items to NPCs. Thanks for setting me straight. Maybe some day this insane Bitcoin Mining craze will finally implode and the rest of us will be able to upgrade GFX adapters.

[Zaknea]

 

On 6/3/2018 at 10:52 AM, Vyxenne said:

It would be the height of awesomeness to have IFPV in SSE!

 

Also, I learned something about SMP last night that I thought I would share. I have the following declarations in my UUNP.xml:

 

 

I read that someone had changed "per-triangle-shape" to "per-vertex-shape" and gotten a significant increase in fps. So I did that, and I did indeed get about a 5-fps increase (from 45 to 50 in the Riften Market wearing HDT hair, earrings, amulet and body) so I felt all smug.

 

However, about an hour later, I belatedly noticed that my hair (KS Sky 188 Pony Tail SMP) kept clipping into my back. With a growing sense of foreboding, I changed it back to per-triangle-shape, and voilà! Hair-to-body collisions restored.

 

TL; DR: It's easy to get a performance boost by reducing SMP functionality.   Stick with per-triangle-shape.

There is a problem with this.  Is your PC the only physics enabled object with the 5 fps drop?  Start throwing physics items on other NPCs and you'll be unplayable before you know it.  This happened a lot with me when I first started converting things over to SMP.

 

If you're getting a lot of clipping it could just be the vertex count on your meshes.  I use 0 margin and 0.2 prenetration on my collision body.  I can typically get zero clipping with a margin of 0.7, sometimes even 0.4 on most meshes, depending on how many vertexes SMP has to work with.  The overhead that triangle shape causes is astronomical.  100 triangle shapes has the potential to be more performance hungry than over 10,000 vertexes, simply because you have a single point for a vertex for SMP to calculate, where a triangle has pretty much an infinite amount of points within it, if that makes sense.  HDT has even said she won't support triangle shapes anymore because of this.

 

NOW, in your example.  Using triangle shapes for a kinematic shape that doesn't have physics is just fine because those triangles aren't physically moving.

 

So I suppose you're good =P

 

Been a while by the way, XD.  Might finally be time to update everything... Only 12 outfits away from being completely done converting to new CBBE then just need to go back and put SMP on Tera armors and a few others and I'll be done completely.  Up to 2500 pieces....lol

[Zaknea]

On 6/3/2018 at 8:03 PM, cminnow said:

I'm running the newest version and your old XMLs seem to work okay. There is still the strange problem where it can bunch up but it's easily corrected by turning or re-equipping.

 

Here's mine that works fine for females with no bunching but it may clip on fat characters. cloak.xml

The bunching up problem I have found typically occurs when there is an issue with the inertia values on the physics bones.  This can also be caused if, say, there's a bunch of regular bones still attached to those vertices. 

 

For example, let's say you have one vertex that you want to have physics on, to make it simple.  If it has the thigh bone, the calf bone, the pelvis bone, and the physics bone attached to it, it's going to be pulling in all 4 of those different directions at the same time.  The best thing I found to do is gradually eliminate the kinematic bones towards where your physics mesh starts but don't completely get rid of it, just keep it light.  If you keep them all on, you can see some pretty strange things happen, like random vertices jetting out where they should be a smooth transition.  I pretty much exclusively just use bodyslide to adjust these.

 

The first time I did this was on Aradia's Dancer meshes.  I have amazing movement with no bunching, virtually no clipping, and it doesn't ever even get stuck even when making aggressive 180 turns in succession.  Now the painful part is that I need to go back and do 75% of the meshes I've already done to make them better XD.

 

Edit: Disclaimer though...If you just want a part of your mesh to lightly wobble, completely keep the other bones on it or it'll move pretty fucked up lol.  The reason I like bodyslide so much is if you add a bone it'll take away from the other bones since SSE has a 4 bone limit per vertex.  It works pretty damn good 99% of the time, and the other 1% is typically when I get sloppy.

[Yoxgg04]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:41 AM, doisitrey said:

 Disable it and try it without it to be 100% sure the CTD is caused by SMP. You could also provide us with your mod list, also, do you any Oldrim mods? did you convert them to SE?

The only bug I've been experienced with SMP is the FPS  where my fps drop to 0.1, but never a CTD by it.

Skyrim se will run if i disable the HDT high heel mod i downloaded from 9damao but as soon as i go to save in some cases i get an instant CTD here is my load order.

LoadOrder.txt

[doisitrey]

3 hours ago, Yoxgg04 said:

Skyrim se will run if i disable the HDT high heel mod i downloaded from 9damao but as soon as i go to save in some cases i get an instant CTD here is my load order.

LoadOrder.txt

After a quick look on your mod list, you have few of mods that you shouldn't use with other mods because their not compatible with each other. Also you have a lot of Oldrim mods, did you convert them to SE?

 

ELFX - Weathers and Vivid Weathers don't work together, you should use only one

Wet And Cold - while I like this mod, you shouldn't use it in any playthrough that you plan to use Sexlab mods, WetAndCold its still script heavy and will cause a lot of issue to many other mods, you should get rid of it.

BeeingFemale and Fertility mod, they similar mods and as such you should only use one of them

Havok Breast Physic - I dont have this, but why use it if you wish to use HDT SMP?

Schlongs of Skyrim - if you use this, keep in mind that you need to use XPMSSE 4.20, lates version its not supported, also you need to use SKSE 2.0.6 and not the latest one 2.0.7.

 

Now I'll name 2 mods that for me caused CTD and I had to disable them, and without them my game is stable, I barely seen any CTD since I disabled them.

• Sexlife - while I did convert them properly to SE, from time to time would still cause CTD

• BeeingFemale - sadly I love this mod, but after I disable it, my CTD dropped about 90%, that's crazy I know

 

 

You should try to disable the mods I mentioned above and test an see if you still have so many CTD. While I'd recommend you start with a new game, you can still use a mid game save if you clean it, but before you clean the save file, you still need to go in-game and disable BeeingFemale from MCM menu, then save again, and only then remove the mod (also remember to use FNIS and Wrye Bash)

 

To clean a save file you can use Fallrim Tools - Script cleaner and more, you can grab it from Nexus

how to use Fallrim Tools:

1 - run ReSaver, then File > Open,  after select and open the save file you wish to clean

2 - from top select Cleaner and run  'Remove unattached instances'  +  'Remove undefined elements'  +  'Reset Havok'

3 - File > save... and thats it, you can close the program

a quick note, you should clean a save when you're inside a small cell, like a house or a cave, don't do it while outdoors.

 

You can also just clean the save file and try to load your save without disabling any mods, it may work, but later you will still get CTD if you don't disable the mod that caused the CTD in first place.

 

[Vyxenne]

3 hours ago, Zaknea said:

NOW, in your example.  Using triangle shapes for a kinematic shape that doesn't have physics is just fine because those triangles aren't physically moving. So I suppose you're good =P

I was following right along until you said this. The declarations I posted were all for my body ("UUNP"), which is definitely "physically moving." Not only is the body animating in 12 different directions at once, but 5 bones within the UUNP shape are physics-enabled- Breast L & R, Butt L & R and Belly. So your statement that my triangle declaration is OK because the triangles aren't "physically moving" leaves me babbling incoherently and wandering off in search of a drink...

 

Perhaps this will help you visualize how my UUNP shape "physically moves:"

Spoiler

 

 

The entire point of my post was to report that I can't get x-to-body collisions (x = SMP Pony Tail in this particular case) using vertex declarations. If you know of a way to get collisions without using triangles I would love to hear about it.

[Yoxgg04]

1 hour ago, doisitrey said:

After a quick look on your mod list, you have few of mods that you shouldn't use with other mods because their not compatible with each other. Also you have a lot of Oldrim mods, did you convert them to SE?

 

ELFX - Weathers and Vivid Weathers don't work together, you should use only one

Wet And Cold - while I like this mod, you shouldn't use it in any playthrough that you plan to use Sexlab mods, WetAndCold its still script heavy and will cause a lot of issue to many other mods, you should get rid of it.

BeeingFemale and Fertility mod, they similar mods and as such you should only use one of them

Havok Breast Physic - I dont have this, but why use it if you wish to use HDT SMP?

Schlongs of Skyrim - if you use this, keep in mind that you need to use XPMSSE 4.20, lates version its not supported, also you need to use SKSE 2.0.6 and not the latest one 2.0.7.

 

Now I'll name 2 mods that for me caused CTD and I had to disable them, and without them my game is stable, I barely seen any CTD since I disabled them.

• Sexlife - while I did convert them properly to SE, from time to time would still cause CTD

• BeeingFemale - sadly I love this mod, but after I disable it, my CTD dropped about 90%, that's crazy I know

 

 

You should try to disable the mods I mentioned above and test an see if you still have so many CTD. While I'd recommend you start with a new game, you can still use a mid game save if you clean it, but before you clean the save file, you still need to go in-game and disable BeeingFemale from MCM menu, then save again, and only then remove the mod (also remember to use FNIS and Wrye Bash)

 

To clean a save file you can use Fallrim Tools - Script cleaner and more, you can grab it from Nexus

how to use Fallrim Tools:

1 - run ReSaver, then File > Open,  after select and open the save file you wish to clean

2 - from top select Cleaner and run  'Remove unattached instances'  +  'Remove undefined elements'  +  'Reset Havok'

3 - File > save... and thats it, you can close the program

a quick note, you should clean a save when you're inside a small cell, like a house or a cave, don't do it while outdoors.

 

You can also just clean the save file and try to load your save without disabling any mods, it may work, but later you will still get CTD if you don't disable the mod that caused the CTD in first place.

 

ill start by saying im truly grateful for you taking your time to help me, ive disabled everything youve suggested and that may have been the answer to previous issues i was having, ive been able to run SMP 1.5.39 without issues up until recently, when trying to revert to the previous i find that i have to convert many of the mods im using to that version such as Racemenu and few other mods from the sse conversion thread here https://www.loverslab.com/topic/94228-sse-conversion-tracking-may-31-1194/?page=46 and i also follow the regular skyrim special edition mod page here https://www.loverslab.com/files/category/163-skyrim-special-edition/. My game loads up to the main screen but its is then when i click on New or Continue that i experience a CTD. Heres my Load Order after modifying mod organizer lve ran Fnis, Wrye, and Loot as well.

 

LoadOrder2.txt

[blueballbob]

Checked over on the https://www.vectorplexus.com site but couldn't find anything so I thought I ask here.

 

There any XMLs for the SAM Body that work with collisions at all?  Got SAM Lite for SSE with the HDT BBB, but it's got no collisions.

 

There a way to make the SAM 'schlong' collide with the HDT bodies for females here?  There's plenty of SoS guides but couldn't find anything related to SAM (which basically is replacing SoS)

[doisitrey]

1 hour ago, Yoxgg04 said:

ill start by saying im truly grateful for you taking your time to help me, ive disabled everything youve suggested and that may have been the answer to previous issues i was having, ive been able to run SMP 1.5.39 without issues up until recently, when trying to revert to the previous i find that i have to convert many of the mods im using to that version such as Racemenu and few other mods from the sse conversion thread here https://www.loverslab.com/topic/94228-sse-conversion-tracking-may-31-1194/?page=46 and i also follow the regular skyrim special edition mod page here https://www.loverslab.com/files/category/163-skyrim-special-edition/. My game loads up to the main screen but its is then when i click on New or Continue that i experience a CTD. Heres my Load Order after modifying mod organizer lve ran Fnis, Wrye, and Loot as well.

 

LoadOrder2.txt

Sadly you have a lot of mods I dont have, so I dont know if any of them could cause the CTD.

I see that you use Racemenu, do you have the " skee.dll  and hudextension.dll " plugins? on Githud people reported CTD since that mod its still in Alpha, if you have those 2 .dll, remove them and test (but keep in mind that Racemenu wont work anymore).

 

There are few more steps you can take, you can do what I did after my game start crashing, you can try and disable 5-10 mods at a time (make sure to disable mods that depend on the mods you disabled while checking), and test and see, if the CTD stop, enable them 1 by 1 till the game start CTD again. I did this, it took me 2 days to get the game almost perfect stable.

 

The other thing you can do is, on Mod Organizer you can go to Tools > Ini Files > Skyrim.ini  and at the buttom, under  Papyrus,  find  the fallowing lines  bEnableLogging / bEnableTrace / bLoadDebugInformation... all 3 should be  0, change them to 1  (e.g bEnableLogging=1). Doing this will create a debug .txt file where the game is located (Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition\Logs\Script) they will have the name Papyrus.0, Papyrus.1 etc.. open the most current one and scroll at the buttom, there you will see which mod caused the CTD (don't be afraid of the errors from the top, at the buttom is where the mod that caused CTD if found).  If you dont use Mod Organizer and you use NMM, you find the  Skyrim.ini file in (Documents\My Games\Skyrim Special Edition). Once you found out what caused the problem, remember to disable the debug, set those 3 lines back to 0, I forgot to do this, and I ended having the .txt file over 5gb each, my SSD was having a bad time opening it so I had to kill the process from  task manager

 

Almost forgot, did you make any changes to Skyrim.ini or  SkyrimPrefs.ini ? If you did it because some mods required this, make sure to check the mods page for any info or read comments, see if anyone reported CTD's, not always the values that the mod author have works for everyone.

 

[Zaknea]

12 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

I was following right along until you said this. The declarations I posted were all for my body ("UUNP"), which is definitely "physically moving." Not only is the body animating in 12 different directions at once, but 5 bones within the UUNP shape are physics-enabled- Breast L & R, Butt L & R and Belly. So your statement that my triangle declaration is OK because the triangles aren't "physically moving" leaves me babbling incoherently and wandering off in search of a drink...

 

Perhaps this will help you visualize how my UUNP shape "physically moves:"

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The entire point of my post was to report that I can't get x-to-body collisions (x = SMP Pony Tail in this particular case) using vertex declarations. If you know of a way to get collisions without using triangles I would love to hear about it.

Well, I guess you're right with the body bounce.  But the physics calculations on it are not as taxing as you have one bone causing all your movement.  My logic on this is completely theoretical and doesn't make full sense to me either, as I am no expert by any means, I've just experimented with hundreds of different meshes and triangle shapes for collision objects I have not noticed a hard line for performance issues on that.  Different story on physics objects.  I've also got this bad habit of rambling which typically makes things more complicated than they need to be XD

 

Can you send me nif and xml, I can look over and see if I see any reason why you're having trouble with collisions.  Triangle collision object and vertex physics object should have no problems with keeping your pony from getting stuck in your neck =P

[Vyxenne]

5 hours ago, Zaknea said:

Can you send me nif and xml, I can look over and see if I see any reason why you're having trouble with collisions.  Triangle collision object and vertex physics object should have no problems with keeping your pony from getting stuck in your neck =P

To be clear, using per-triangle-shape, I have great collisions between my pony tails and my back and neck, although when I'm running my elbows clip right through the swaying pony tail (or vice-versa.) It is only when I attempted to use per-vertex-shape in UUNP.xml that I lost hair-to-back collisions.

 

My body:

femalebody_1.nif

UUNP.xml

 

My favorite wig

KShair.nif

HDTHair.xml

 

My second-favorite wig

Sky208.nif

Sky208.xml

 

Thanks for looking at this! I would ❤️LOVE❤️ to find some way to use "per-vertex-shape" instead of triangles so I could give followers an HDT wig!