CBBE / BodySlide and Outfit Studio

[ousnius]

Ousnious,

 

I know you and Cal are working on meshes so I wanted to run something by you to see if you are aware of it and if so, does it have any impact on getting the new body to look right with heads in game.

 

As you know, the SSE CK produces facegeom NIFs automatically when saving the plugin.  You can also create the NIFs the old fashioned way, by manually pressing <ctrl-F4>, which has the added benefit of always placing the NIF files in the correct folder.  I noticed a couple weeks ago that in most cases, there is a difference in NIF file size, depending on which method was used to create the NIF.

 

Long story short, facegeom NIFs that get automatically created when saving the plugin are unreliable and should not be used.  They can contain errors, including pointing to the wrong textures.  These errors don't occur when saving with <ctrl-F4>.

 

I still don't know why the heads are a slightly lighter shade than the bodies (not really noticeable in bright sunlight).  This takes place whether the head was made with the new CK or is a NIF from the old game with tangents updated.  Heck, it takes place in vanilla SSE with no mods installed.

 

I guess I'm wondering if Cal is going to have to replace the head mesh, too.

 

The head and body textures match up if you use custom textures for both, which CBBE came with in the old Skyrim.

So no need to replace the head mesh (that doesn't work anyway, because all the NPCs).

[migal130]

 

The head and body textures match up if you use custom textures for both, which CBBE came with in the old Skyrim.

So no need to replace the head mesh (that doesn't work anyway, because all the NPCs).

 

 

Is there something special that needs to be done to the custom textures?  My Oldrim textures don't match up in SSE, neither do any of the other Oldrim texture sets I've tried, nor vanilla.  Although, Facetint/Facegeom files created with the new CK (BSDynamicTriShapes) exhibit the issue differently than Old CK-derived facetint/facegeoms (NiTriShapes) used in SSE.  The new ones don't show the problem as much as the skin tones darken.  Old ones are the opposite, the darker the skin tone, the worse it gets.

 

I'll summarize by rephrasing:  Has Cal had to slightly darken her new head texture for SSE compared to the old CBBE texture set?

[ousnius]

 

 

The head and body textures match up if you use custom textures for both, which CBBE came with in the old Skyrim.

So no need to replace the head mesh (that doesn't work anyway, because all the NPCs).

 

I'll summarize by rephrasing:  Has Cal had to slightly darken her new head texture for SSE compared to the old CBBE texture set?

 

I don't think she's touched head textures yet. The ones for the CBBE in the old Skyrim weren't hers either.

Not getting any seams with custom body/head textures here, and haven't seen any on a lot of character screenshots either.

[migal130]

 

 

 

The head and body textures match up if you use custom textures for both, which CBBE came with in the old Skyrim.

So no need to replace the head mesh (that doesn't work anyway, because all the NPCs).

 

I'll summarize by rephrasing:  Has Cal had to slightly darken her new head texture for SSE compared to the old CBBE texture set?

 

I don't think she's touched head textures yet. The ones for the CBBE in the old Skyrim weren't hers either.

Not getting any seams with custom body/head textures here, and haven't seen any on a lot of character screenshots either.

 

 

This is my Leah from BBLS.  She's been completely remade in the new CK, so her head is BSDynamicTriShapes.  She's wearing the same textures I used in Oldrim, which are my own mish-mash of Navatsea, Bella and a few other textures with seam areas copied from one to the other in Photoshop and then blended.  In the old game, the texture is seamless.  Not in SSE and it's this way for all my characters for which I haven't yet slightly darkened their tint mask.  Actually, it's this way for all characters in my game, no matter the sex, vanilla or otherwsie.  You responded to another one of my threads that began with a screenshot of a vanilla toon in unmodded Skyrim, exhibiting the same problem, albeit, possibly worse/more harsh.

 

 

As you can see, it's not real harsh.  The body essentially looks dirtier than the neck.  If you don't mind my asking, what kind of video card are you running?

[ousnius]

20161203090535_1.jpg

 

As you can see, it's not real harsh.  The body essentially looks dirtier than the neck.  If you don't mind my asking, what kind of video card are you running?

 

NVIDIA (MSI) GeForce GTX 980, but that's most likely irrelevant.

Does it happen only for NPCs or the player character too? If it's only NPCs, then I don't know, it must be some bug with the engine or tint masks.

[BringtheNoise]

Oh Ousnius will we get separate nails for the hands and feet.

 

I know we had finger nail tips in the uunp hands and full nails in the feet.

 

I'm thinking if we can do those with an alpha channel, and maybe a separate texture path for the colors (then maybe a racemenu plug to change tint and what not once skse64 is out).... Just think about all the open finger glove mods that would need to be tweaked to work with nails (and open toe shoes or heels).

 

Any idea on the poly count we are going to see, and how many sliders will be included in the base package.

 

Oh yeah... if we do get NiOverride's in SKSE 64 will you being doing the esp to allow for slider adjustment inside racemenu (again all waiting on skse64).

[migal130]

 

NVIDIA (MSI) GeForce GTX 980, but that's most likely irrelevant.

Does it happen only for NPCs or the player character too? If it's only NPCs, then I don't know, it must be some bug with the engine or tint masks.

 

 

Also happening with my male player character.  Not as obvious on males, but it's there.  Mostly noticeable on the sides under certain lighting conditions.

 

It could be the tint masks, but not based on the numbers.  In the plugin, tint Layer Index 24 (skin tone) has RGB values that exactly match the tint map's border region RGB values.  If the problem has to do with the way the new CK creates face tints, it's that the CK should be creating tints that are a little darker than the values set in the CK.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Ousnious.  To be honest, I was just hoping you or Cal had already dealt with and figured this stuff out.

[ousnius]

Oh Ousnius will we get separate nails for the hands and feet.

 

I know we had finger nail tips in the uunp hands and full nails in the feet.

 

I'm thinking if we can do those with an alpha channel, and maybe a separate texture path for the colors (then maybe a racemenu plug to change tint and what not once skse64 is out).... Just think about all the open finger glove mods that would need to be tweaked to work with nails (and open toe shoes or heels).

 

Any idea on the poly count we are going to see, and how many sliders will be included in the base package.

 

Oh yeah... if we do get NiOverride's in SKSE 64 will you being doing the esp to allow for slider adjustment inside racemenu (again all waiting on skse64).

 

In-game morphs will very likely not be possible in the SSE engine, it's missing a key component that was used in SK and FO4.

This isn't a final conclusion though, just the first investigations by Expired.

 

Separate shapes for finger nails aren't required.

They can simply be separate equippable items, like HumanNature66's finger nail mods for Skyrim and FO4 do it (with or without replacing the hand mesh).

[Uno]

(I'm ready to build the body in-game on the old Skyrim, and export that to the new one lol)

[ousnius]

BodySlide and Outfit Studio will be able to render normal maps and specular maps in the future.
I've implemented it, only needs to be fine tuned now.
 
No Lighting:
http://i.imgur.com/rxo39ZA.png (copy link to new tab)
 
Lighting:
http://i.imgur.com/WZOZhcM.png (copy link to new tab)
 

(I'm ready to build the body in-game on the old Skyrim, and export that to the new one lol)

 
You can't export in-game bodies though. And old CBBE presets also don't work on the new CBBE.

 

About CBBE - no progress to be shown yet, but we're constantly working on it.

The normal map generator thing will take some work, then fine tuning and outfits.

[Uno]

@Ousnius, You party pooper

Nah, rebuild from scratch means more fun. I just pray for a good amount of sliders! if it involves derrieres, the better.

 

 

 

[DustinMock]

BodySlide and Outfit Studio will be able to render normal maps and specular maps in the future.

I've implemented it, only needs to be fine tuned now.

 

No Lighting:

http://i.imgur.com/rxo39ZA.png (copy link to new tab)

 

Lighting:

http://i.imgur.com/WZOZhcM.png (copy link to new tab)

 

(I'm ready to build the body in-game on the old Skyrim, and export that to the new one lol)

 

You can't export in-game bodies though. And old CBBE presets also don't work on the new CBBE.

 

About CBBE - no progress to be shown yet, but we're constantly working on it.

The normal map generator thing will take some work, then fine tuning and outfits.

screw the outfits, even an incompetent slob like me can build the outfits with the awesome tools y'all provide.  Make the player base do that for ya

[Sybian]

 

BodySlide and Outfit Studio will be able to render normal maps and specular maps in the future.

I've implemented it, only needs to be fine tuned now.

 

No Lighting:

http://i.imgur.com/rxo39ZA.png (copy link to new tab)

 

Lighting:

http://i.imgur.com/WZOZhcM.png (copy link to new tab)

 

(I'm ready to build the body in-game on the old Skyrim, and export that to the new one lol)

 

You can't export in-game bodies though. And old CBBE presets also don't work on the new CBBE.

 

About CBBE - no progress to be shown yet, but we're constantly working on it.

The normal map generator thing will take some work, then fine tuning and outfits.

screw the outfits, even an incompetent slob like me can build the outfits with the awesome tools y'all provide.  Make the player base do that for ya

 

 

 

True. Think long term, if you can up the quality only the best outfits will be brought up to the new level. 

[Ches]

I've been having a bit of trouble with 4.1.3 - I get a fatal error and CTD when attempting to build certain outfits. The only commonality I can find between crashing incidents is that some of the problematic meshes use NiTriStrips rather than NiTriShapes. I don't recall having this issue with earlier versions of BodySlide, but is there some way to fix it? I've searched around for solutions, but I seem to be the only one with this particular problem so maybe it's on my end.

 

Also, are you open to suggestions for new sliders?

 

I would love to see an integrated mons pubis slider for UUNP. The default body shapes all have relatively flat pubic mounds, but in real life they vary widely in size and can be pretty prominent on some women.

 

 

 

 

I think it's a woefully underappreciated part of the anatomy.

 

Thanks for all the effort you've put into maintaining this amazing program, by the way, and your dedication to the modding community in general. Skyrim would be a lot less interesting without the contributions of you and other modders.

[ousnius]

I've been having a bit of trouble with 4.1.3 - I get a fatal error and CTD when attempting to build certain outfits. The only commonality I can find between crashing incidents is that some of the problematic meshes use NiTriStrips rather than NiTriShapes. I don't recall having this issue with earlier versions of BodySlide, but is there some way to fix it? I've searched around for solutions, but I seem to be the only one with this particular problem so maybe it's on my end.

 

That's fixed for the next version.

There's already a groin slider.

[Ches]

There is? For UUNP? I've never seen it among the list of sliders.

[Andy14]

I've been having a bit of trouble with 4.1.3 - I get a fatal error and CTD when attempting to build certain outfits. The only commonality I can find between crashing incidents is that some of the problematic meshes use NiTriStrips rather than NiTriShapes. I don't recall having this issue with earlier versions of BodySlide, but is there some way to fix it? I've searched around for solutions, but I seem to be the only one with this particular problem so maybe it's on my end.

 

Also, are you open to suggestions for new sliders?

 

I would love to see an integrated mons pubis slider for UUNP. The default body shapes all have relatively flat pubic mounds, but in real life they vary widely in size and can be pretty prominent on some women.

 

 

115653453.jpg1195401784.jpg1651577026.jpgbody004_y.jpgImage_6.jpgNDS_0334.jpgtumblr_lzvxhySioi1qbmhkxo1_1280.jpgftop.ru_61027.jpg

 

 

I think it's a woefully underappreciated part of the anatomy.

 

Thanks for all the effort you've put into maintaining this amazing program, by the way, and your dedication to the modding community in general. Skyrim would be a lot less interesting without the contributions of you and other modders.

 

 

Aha - now I know what new slider you need.

As ousnius said, there is already a slider "Groin".

In combination with "TummyTuck" you can safely create the desired result.

 

Just by the way - but perhaps exactly what you are looking for:

In BodySlide, values of more than 100% and even negative values are possible - just use the keyboard instead of Mouse.

[ousnius]

There is? For UUNP? I've never seen it among the list of sliders.

 

It only exists for the old and new CBBE, because it wouldn't have worked properly for all the different body shapes of UUNP.

[Andy14]

@ousnius (cell war einfacher zu schreiben )

 

Outfitstudio in general - a question:

Is there a way to rename the Refrerence Shape, and the sliders still work?

[Ches]

 

 

I've been having a bit of trouble with 4.1.3 - I get a fatal error and CTD when attempting to build certain outfits. The only commonality I can find between crashing incidents is that some of the problematic meshes use NiTriStrips rather than NiTriShapes. I don't recall having this issue with earlier versions of BodySlide, but is there some way to fix it? I've searched around for solutions, but I seem to be the only one with this particular problem so maybe it's on my end.

 

Also, are you open to suggestions for new sliders?

 

I would love to see an integrated mons pubis slider for UUNP. The default body shapes all have relatively flat pubic mounds, but in real life they vary widely in size and can be pretty prominent on some women.

 

 

115653453.jpg1195401784.jpg1651577026.jpgbody004_y.jpgImage_6.jpgNDS_0334.jpgtumblr_lzvxhySioi1qbmhkxo1_1280.jpgftop.ru_61027.jpg

 

 

I think it's a woefully underappreciated part of the anatomy.

 

Thanks for all the effort you've put into maintaining this amazing program, by the way, and your dedication to the modding community in general. Skyrim would be a lot less interesting without the contributions of you and other modders.

 

 

 

Aha - now I know what new slider you need.

As ousnius said, there is already a slider "Groin".

In combination with "TummyTuck" you can safely create the desired result.

 

Just by the way - but perhaps exactly what you are looking for:

In BodySlide, values of more than 100% and even negative values are possible - just use the keyboard instead of Mouse.

 

 

Yeah, as you've noted I've been hunting for the ability to augment the UUNP mons for a while.

 

I've played with the TummyTuck slider before, but it doesn't quite produce the desired result, and as Ousnius just explained, UUNP unfortunately lacks a dedicated groin slider. But thanks to your advice in the other thread, I might be able to achieve what I want using a custom slider. We'll see how that goes.

 

 

 

There is? For UUNP? I've never seen it among the list of sliders.

 

It only exists for the old and new CBBE, because it wouldn't have worked properly for all the different body shapes of UUNP.

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Andy14]

 

 

 

I've been having a bit of trouble with 4.1.3 - I get a fatal error and CTD when attempting to build certain outfits. The only commonality I can find between crashing incidents is that some of the problematic meshes use NiTriStrips rather than NiTriShapes. I don't recall having this issue with earlier versions of BodySlide, but is there some way to fix it? I've searched around for solutions, but I seem to be the only one with this particular problem so maybe it's on my end.

 

Also, are you open to suggestions for new sliders?

 

I would love to see an integrated mons pubis slider for UUNP. The default body shapes all have relatively flat pubic mounds, but in real life they vary widely in size and can be pretty prominent on some women.

 

 

115653453.jpg1195401784.jpg1651577026.jpgbody004_y.jpgImage_6.jpgNDS_0334.jpgtumblr_lzvxhySioi1qbmhkxo1_1280.jpgftop.ru_61027.jpg

 

 

I think it's a woefully underappreciated part of the anatomy.

 

Thanks for all the effort you've put into maintaining this amazing program, by the way, and your dedication to the modding community in general. Skyrim would be a lot less interesting without the contributions of you and other modders.

 

 

 

Aha - now I know what new slider you need.

As ousnius said, there is already a slider "Groin".

In combination with "TummyTuck" you can safely create the desired result.

 

Just by the way - but perhaps exactly what you are looking for:

In BodySlide, values of more than 100% and even negative values are possible - just use the keyboard instead of Mouse.

 

 

Yeah, as you've noted I've been hunting for the ability to augment the UUNP mons for a while.

 

I've played with the TummyTuck slider before, but it doesn't quite produce the desired result, and as Ousnius just explained, UUNP unfortunately lacks a dedicated groin slider. But thanks to your advice in the other thread, I might be able to achieve what I want using a custom slider. We'll see how that goes.

 

 

 

There is? For UUNP? I've never seen it among the list of sliders.

 

It only exists for the old and new CBBE, because it wouldn't have worked properly for all the different body shapes of UUNP.

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

I wish you good luck 

[Silvist]

 

 

The head and body textures match up if you use custom textures for both, which CBBE came with in the old Skyrim.

So no need to replace the head mesh (that doesn't work anyway, because all the NPCs).

 

 

Is there something special that needs to be done to the custom textures?  My Oldrim textures don't match up in SSE, neither do any of the other Oldrim texture sets I've tried, nor vanilla.  Although, Facetint/Facegeom files created with the new CK (BSDynamicTriShapes) exhibit the issue differently than Old CK-derived facetint/facegeoms (NiTriShapes) used in SSE.  The new ones don't show the problem as much as the skin tones darken.  Old ones are the opposite, the darker the skin tone, the worse it gets.

 

I'll summarize by rephrasing:  Has Cal had to slightly darken her new head texture for SSE compared to the old CBBE texture set?

 

 

Did you check vertex colors under the bsdynamictrishapes?  I would check that against the body to see if they have the same setting.  Also, are you using a custom head mesh or the vanilla head mesh?  If you are using the vanilla one, I'd extract it as well to check what it is defaulted to.

[ousnius]

Did you check vertex colors under the bsdynamictrishapes?  I would check that against the body to see if they have the same setting.  Also, are you using a custom head mesh or the vanilla head mesh?  If you are using the vanilla one, I'd extract it as well to check what it is defaulted to.

 

Just a note, you can't manually enable or disable vertex colors (or anything similar) in NifSkope anymore with BSTriShapes or BSDynamicTriShapes. If you do it, the other data sizes in the NIF aren't matching up anymore and will cause the game to immediately crash or load the NIF wrongly.

 

If you want to do it, you have to before it's converted to a BSTriShape.

[Silvist]

@Ousnius - Interesting.  I actually messed with vertex head colors with head meshes, and it did in fact cause a CTD.  Good to know that was the cause! Thanks

[masterofthantos]

is there an eta on the new cbbe (weather its a beta version for testing or the ful version?)