Yiffy Age of Skyrim

[NightroModzz]

 

@Bad Dog & Blaze69.....

Already replied in the PM, but I'll post it here as well just in case: XNormal doesn't seem to have a polycount limit per-se, which would mean the only limit is the one imposed by your own rig's specs (CPU and RAM).

 

The only post on that matter I could find said that on a PC with 4GB of RAM, XNormal was able to handle a ZBrush exported OBJ file with around 30 million polys just fine, so 2 million should not be a problem at all.

 

Sounds great! Thanks! Maybe I should update the tail too.

[Deadly Kitten]

 

 

@Bad Dog & Blaze69.....

Already replied in the PM, but I'll post it here as well just in case: XNormal doesn't seem to have a polycount limit per-se, which would mean the only limit is the one imposed by your own rig's specs (CPU and RAM).

 

The only post on that matter I could find said that on a PC with 4GB of RAM, XNormal was able to handle a ZBrush exported OBJ file with around 30 million polys just fine, so 2 million should not be a problem at all.

 

Sounds great! Thanks! Maybe I should update the tail too.

 

Wish we had better animations than the broompole tail in skyrim. The HDT tails act wonky half the time, in my experience. FFXIV had awesome tail animations, but I can't bring myself to play that long, due to the rather grindy endgame. That, and I can't quite afford a subscription right now.

[Bad Dog]

He swims! He sits! He sneaks!

 

  

 

.... he doesn't quite know what to do with his feet when he sits and his paws sometimes punch through the landscape, but what's a modder to do. The stand and sneak animations don't have the paws exactly on a level.

 

I'm worrying I'll have to handle sitting crosslegged and laying down and so forth as their own cases. But that's doable.

[NightroModzz]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish we had better animations than the broompole tail in skyrim. The HDT tails act wonky half the time, in my experience. FFXIV had awesome tail animations, but I can't bring myself to play that long, due to the rather grindy endgame. That, and I can't quite afford a subscription right now.

 

When I said tails, I was only referring to normal maps. But yes, tail animations as well as a custom digi skeleton and digi animations are on my to-do list. However, they are not 100% for sure projects. They are for sure for a UE4 project, but there is a chance that it might not happen for Skyrim. For now, I am only messing with meshes/models.

[Deadly Kitten]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wish we had better animations than the broompole tail in skyrim. The HDT tails act wonky half the time, in my experience. FFXIV had awesome tail animations, but I can't bring myself to play that long, due to the rather grindy endgame. That, and I can't quite afford a subscription right now.

 

When I said tails, I was only referring to normal maps. But yes, tail animations as well as a custom digi skeleton and digi animations are on my to-do list. However, they are not 100% for sure projects. They are for sure for a UE4 project, but there is a chance that it might not happen for Skyrim. For now, I am only messing with meshes/models.

 

 

Any changes at all would be an improvement over vanilla, for the most part. Even the slim possibility that you make animations for Skyrim is more than I'd have hoped for.

[NightroModzz]

Here are some pics of the High (really high) poly cheetah head mesh. It's at 51.6 million polygons lol! So going by what Blaze69 mentioned, 8gb of ram should be able to handle it in xNormal. Hopefully it looks better with textures, because Zbrush adds a lot of reflection. Or I can try making fur detail less small in some areas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voldearag]

Damn, Nightro.  Please continue making stuff.  I didn't realize there could be real texture detail.  Assuming many months or a year goes by, and your Khajiit have been finished up nicely and you're still interested in building for Skyrim, is it possible you're going to sculpt Argonian heads and bodies too?

[NightroModzz]

Damn, Nightro.  Please continue making stuff.  I didn't realize there could be real texture detail.  Assuming many months or a year goes by, and your Khajiit have been finished up nicely and you're still interested in building for Skyrim, is it possible you're going to sculpt Argonian heads and bodies too?

I personally think Argonians are fine with good existing textures/normal maps. However, I do have a dragon race planned that will be morphed from Argonian heads. I may do a Khajiit dragon hybrid as well. Also, I have the Yu Yu Hakusho Leviathan race planned soon. Minus the ears and tail, it's not a furry.

 

BTW, mesh detail, not texture detail. Any mesh detail can only be seen in the normal maps over the low poly version.

 

[boo]

That looks incredible. Guess I'll be shelving my custom khajiit textures for good.

[Bad Dog]

I got the toes up out of the ground on sitting:

 

 

There's still some weirdness with the knees though. It's like it's not doing a pure rotation and jamming the shins up somehow. So some tweaking still to do.

 

Big downside of this method is that *all* non-standing animations have to be fixed. SL will do the sex animations, and I've got meditate, lay on back, lay on side, and sit crosslegged fixed up. But if there are any others out there--including animations added by another mod--they have to be handled as special cases. I haven't checked the riding animations or 1st person camera.

 

But the posture is enough better I think it's worth it.

 

Meanwhile my rig is giving me fits. I got the "Creators Update" installed and got Skyrim running again by doing a clean reinstall. Now I can't get ENBoost working again--CTD on load. I think I've seen this before but this time I'm having a terrible time getting it fixed.

 

Maybe related, and this is the big problem, I can't get into Solitude or Whiterun--CTD every time. I've assumed it's not a real problem and I can fix it later, but it may be caused somehow by this skeleton work. So I'm going to have to take a little time to see if I can figure out what's going on.

[Blaze69]

I got the toes up out of the ground on sitting:

 

Sit2.jpg

Okay, looking good overall, but... Is it just me, or are the knees bent in a weird way? At least it looks like it from the pics. EDIT: Derp, you mentioned it in the post. Nevermind me, lol.

 

Meanwhile my rig is giving me fits. I got the "Creators Update" installed and got Skyrim running again by doing a clean reinstall. Now I can't get ENBoost working again--CTD on load. I think I've seen this before but this time I'm having a terrible time getting it fixed.

 

Maybe related, and this is the big problem, I can't get into Solitude or Whiterun--CTD every time. I've assumed it's not a real problem and I can fix it later, but it may be caused somehow by this skeleton work. So I'm going to have to take a little time to see if I can figure out what's going on.

Maybe try using the ENB injector instead of the wrapper. The only difference is that you have to run a small program before you actually launch the game, but it may allow you to use ENBoost properly. And that could make a huge difference.

 

Not so long ago I decided to go back to Oblivion for a while, and for some reason I couldn't get ENBoost to work either. Same issue as you, CTD when launching the game as long as the wrapper D3D9 dll was present in the game folder. Playing without it meant really frequent crashes, specially when doing random stuff like opening menus or pressing keys or whatever.

 

Decided to give the ENB injector a try, and lo and behold, it loaded just fine, and all of my crashes were gone (I mean, there were still plenty of CTDs, it is a Bethesda game after all; but not nearly as much as without ENBoost). I could still notice a slight slowdown whenever I did some of that random stuff from time to time, so if that slowdown was caused by ENBoost preventing the game from crashing and burning hard (as I suspect it was), then I know the game would have crashed a lot if I hadn't used ENBoost.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Blaze69

[27X]

Injector is much more stable, you'll probably also want crashfixes, and to make sure your using whichever physics mempatch and have data sync and data priority set for your system, these settings were made specifically for PE and SMP by Boris.

[NightroModzz]

@Bad Dog & Blaze69

 

Can one of you confirm that  my modified khajiit heads from Citrus has neck seem problems with UUNP? I'm wondering if I should edit those after new UVs are created so they can be set up with a _0 &_1 variant for sliders. That is a very problematic issue with female khajiit heads.

[Blaze69]

@Bad Dog & Blaze69

 

Can one of you confirm that  my modified khajiit heads from Citrus has neck seem problems with UUNP? I'm wondering if I should edit those after new UVs are created so they can be set up with a _0 &_1 variant for sliders. That is a very problematic issue with female khajiit heads.

Not really sure what you mean, AFAIK they don't have any kind of seams, or at least they aren't noticeable due to the extra fur layer. Vanilla Khajiit heads were never "seamless" to begin with, for that very reason: they didn't have a neck that matched the body in placement seamlessly because they had that layer instead. It may look a bit wonky (it does indeed), but it's as good as it gets due to that decision on Bethesda's part.

 

As for having _0 and _1 versions of the head, that's just not possible. The engine doesn't support slider data for head parts. You can include a special morph in the .tri file named "SkinnyMorph" and fit to the _0 body that will be applied when the character has less than 100 weight (and that's why a single head .nif fits all weights from 100 to 0), but that's as close as it gets.

[NightroModzz]

 

@Bad Dog & Blaze69

 

Can one of you confirm that  my modified khajiit heads from Citrus has neck seem problems with UUNP? I'm wondering if I should edit those after new UVs are created so they can be set up with a _0 &_1 variant for sliders. That is a very problematic issue with female khajiit heads.

Not really sure what you mean, AFAIK they don't have any kind of seams, or at least they aren't noticeable due to the extra fur layer. Vanilla Khajiit heads were never "seamless" to begin with, for that very reason: they didn't have a neck that matched the body in placement seamlessly because they had that layer instead. It may look a bit wonky (it does indeed), but it's as good as it gets due to that decision on Bethesda's part.

 

As for having _0 and _1 versions of the head, that's just not possible. The engine doesn't support slider data for head parts. You can include a special morph in the .tri file named "SkinnyMorph" and fit to the _0 body that will be applied when the character has less than 100 weight (and that's why a single head .nif fits all weights from 100 to 0), but that's as close as it gets.

 

So wouldn't the best course of action be to have both a _0 & _1 body as well as the head in the same project, then just stretch the back of the fur/neck down into the skin so it looks good on both? I could do that later if Bad Dog hasn't created new UVs for the female cheetah yet. Then I would need him to send me that.

 

BTW, already have a 0&1 body preset in my Leviathan project. Also got rid of the terrible seams on the hands. The feet as well, but isn't really noticeable in game. Overall it's looks good now as if it's just one mesh. Although, I have not fixed it for the _0 body parts yet.

[Blaze69]

So wouldn't the best course of action be to have both a _0 & _1 body as well as the head in the same project, then just stretch the back of the fur/neck down into the skin so it looks good on both? I could do that later if Bad Dog hasn't created new UVs for the female cheetah yet. Then I would need him to send me that.

I don't think "stretching the neck down into the skin" would look good.

 

With the heads as they are, the only change I would make would be to bring the fur layer closer to the body/neck. Make it "tighter", you could say. It's true it's a bit loose and it looks like it floats over the actual body and neck if you look at it from the sides or the back (the front looks good enough, though). But you have to keep the actual fur layer over the seam or else it just won't work.

 

So, if anything, the edit would be to fit the fur layer better to the body on the main head mesh, so it looks better and doesn't detatch too much from the body. By editing the base (_1) head mesh, the _0 version should be affected as well and be closer/look better, but if it still doesn't look good enough, I can apply my ".tri updating" process so you can export the corresponding _0 morph and manually tweak it as well to fit it better.

 

The other option would be to get rid of the fur layer altogether and fit the neck just like human and Argonian heads do. But I think this is not really an option; even if we get rid of the fur layer by scaling it down to microscopic size and placing it inside the head (to keep vertex count untouched), I think the actual neck mesh underneath doesn't fit the neck seam anyway, neither in placement nor in topology/vertex count (meshes matching in vertex count at a seam makes it easy to match them because you just have to place the corresponding vertices at the exact same coords). So chances are it would look bad.

 

Also the fur detail would have to be made 100% seamless across the neck; this may be possible for the diffuse (I could actually do that in Mudbox), but creating a seamless fur normal map would probably be a PITA. With the fur layer, on the other hand, you don't need for it to be seamless, you just need the textures to roughly match and the alpha channel to be properly done, which doesn't look perfect but does look good enough and is also easier to achieve.

 

BTW, already have a 0&1 body preset in my Leviathan project. Also got rid of the terrible seams on the hands. The feet as well, but isn't really noticeable in game. Overall it's looks good now as if it's just one mesh. Although, I have not fixed it for the _0 body parts yet.

 

What do you mean you got a preset? Are you talking about a specific Bodyslide/UUNP preset for the character/race, or something else?

Edited May 23, 2017 by Blaze69

[NightroModzz]

 

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What do you mean you got a preset? Are you talking about a specific Bodyslide/UUNP preset for the character/race, or something else?

 

I'm just saying that I could match the fur layer to touch the body_0 mesh without it sinking in while still looking good on the body_1. Naturally it would be sunken in a bit with the body_1, but would also look good anywhere in between.

 

Yes, a UUNP Special body preset from bodyslide, optional, intended for the race, and edited in Zbrush to fix any seem issues. Also may be used to create clothing and armor around. I also don't see getting permission to use the body if I need to for reasons, plus a requirement.

 

EDIT: After looking at it going back and forth between the 0&1 body, there are areas that change very slightly where I could center the fur seams. Also, I think it might look a lot better to lessen the giant fur hump in the back a bit. Never did like how overly humpy it is. I will be making normal map meshes anyways, so is it that much of an issue?

[Blaze69]

I'm just saying that I could match the fur lay to touch the body_0 mesh without that one seeking in while still looking good on the body_1. Naturally it would be sunken in a bit with the body_1, but would also look good anywhere in between.

 

EDIT: After looking at it going back and forth between the 0&1 body, there are areas that change very slightly where I could center the fur seams. Also, I think it might look a lot better to lessen the giant fur hum in the back a bit. Never did like how overly humpy it is. I will be making normal map meshes anyways, so is it that much of an issue?

Oh, I think I get what you mean now. It's kind of similar to what I suggested myself. I thought you wanted the fur layer to actually sink into the body by a fair amount, which IMO would look bad. But you want to put it close to the body so that it "touches" it, while still leaving it over the body with the alpha effect to make it look like, well, a fur layer, right?

 

In that case, there is no need to fit both bodies at the same time, you can tweak them individually and specifically. You can tweak the _1 mesh for the _1 body, and then I do my .tri magic, send you the exported _0 morph as an OBJ, and then you fit that one to the _0 body. Send it back to me, I repack the .tri with the new _0 morph, and we're golden. Or at least that's the idea.

 

Yeah, I don't like that "fur hump" thing either. It's usually covered by the hair, but if you use a shaved/short hair style, it gets pretty jarring. So by all means fix that one as well. Should not cause any issues whatsoever.

 

But perhaps it will be better to wait for BadDog to be done with the UV edits before you touch the heads again.

 

Yes, a UUNP Special body preset from bodyslide, optional, intended for the race, and edited in Zbrush to fix any seem issues. Also may be used to create clothing and armor around. I also don't see getting permission to use the body if I need to for reasons, plus a requirement.

Did you save the preset (as an XML file)? Could you send it to me? Or the body meshes themselves as nifs or OBJs if you didn't save the preset file? I would like to check them out. Just curious on what body shape you came up with . 

 

[NightroModzz]

 

Did you save the preset (as an XML file)? Could you send it to me? Or the body meshes themselves as nifs or OBJs if you didn't save the preset file? I would like to check them out. Just curious on what body shape you came up with . 

 

I actually just browsed around Nexus and found the Bathsheba preset, used that as a base, then continued to edit the breast size, cleavage, nipples, and butt a bit. I didn't save the xml file, but the settings should be the same if I go back on it. I'd prefer to just send you the body_1 obj files so you can test out the seams. Do you need to have the body_0 or will your existing ones work out fine?

[Blaze69]

I actually just browsed around Nexus and found the Bathsheba preset, used that as a base, then continued to edit the breast size, cleavage, nipples, and butt a bit. I didn't save the xml file, but the settings should be the same if I go back on it. I'd prefer to just send you the body_1 obj files so you can test out the seams. Do you need to have the body_0 or will your existing ones work out fine?

Nah, no need to. Just wanted to check it out, that's all. So go ahead, the _1 one will do just fine.

 

Not really sure what seams you had to fix, though. All presets are 100% seamless across wrists and ankles as long as you build feet and hands with the exact same preset as well. The only seam could be between custom bodies and hands or feet that match the vanilla seam standards, but even then, most UUNP presets are fit to those already (except for bodies like 7B Bombshell or UNPBO, as I've mentioned before). Still, I will take a look at it.

[NightroModzz]

 

I actually just browsed around Nexus and found the Bathsheba preset, used that as a base, then continued to edit the breast size, cleavage, nipples, and butt a bit. I didn't save the xml file, but the settings should be the same if I go back on it. I'd prefer to just send you the body_1 obj files so you can test out the seams. Do you need to have the body_0 or will your existing ones work out fine?

Nah, no need to. Just wanted to check it out, that's all. So go ahead, the _1 one will do just fine.

 

Not really sure what seams you had to fix, though. All presets are 100% seamless across wrists and ankles as long as you build feet and hands with the exact same preset as well. The only seam could be between custom bodies and hands or feet that match the vanilla seam standards, but even then, most UUNP presets are fit to those already (except for bodies like 7B Bombshell or UNPBO, as I've mentioned before). Still, I will take a look at it.

 

Nope, did the same preset. Feet are very close, but not seamless in Zbrush. I can zoom in a lot. the _0 hands and body are pretty close, but was not the case for the _1 counterpart. The issue with the hands is that there is an extra poly on some sides indented inwards which I am assuming is to get rid of possible seams when morphing, but creates an uneven effect on the texture which causes a seam like effect.

 

Any edits I did in BodySlide was in body part specific sliders. Not other body presets like UNP Fitness for example.

 

Also, since the meshes are already separate, any morphing in BodySlide is highly likely to create seams to some degree. It's a modding tool as well, not a professional application so it's not perfect.

 

EDIT:

This is the hand_0 mesh. You can see a small poly layer indented on the right. Again, the hand_1 was much worse.

 

 

 

 

Also, each body parts were slightly off the 0 xyz axis. One at 13, one at 16, and the other at 18.

[Bad Dog]

Not only do you want my UV layout but if you're going to muck with tris you want my fix to the surprise morph. I dunno what happened there but that was a mess and a PITA to fix.

 

I haven't loaded up Nitro's final version yet. I'll do that and get it sorted, then send along to you.

[Blaze69]

Nope, did the same preset. Feet are very close, but not seamless in Zbrush. I can zoom in a lot. the _0 hands and body are pretty close, but was not the case for the _1 counterpart. The issue with the hands is that there is an extra poly on all sides indented inwards which I am assuming is to get rid of possible seams when morphing, but creates an uneven effect on the texture which causes a seam like effect.

 

Any edits I did in BodySlide was in body part specific sliders. Not other body presets like UNP Fitness for example.

 

Also, since the meshes are already separate, any morphing in BodySlide is highly likely to create seams to some degree. It's a modding tool as well, not a professional application so it's not perfect.

 

EDIT:

This is the hand_0 mesh. You can see a small poly layer indented on the right. Again, the hand_1 was much worse.

 

 

 

Oh, that seam is caused by vertex count mismatch across the seam. You said it yourself, that extra vertex does not have an equivalent in the hand, so while it can be roughly matched to where the middle of the corresponding hand edge is, it will never be a 100% absolute atom-scale match because of it.

 

I guess you could go the extra mile and match it yourself manually, but it may be a little too much. Whatever you prefer.

 

Weird thing is, while the hands are roughly as hi-poly as the body itself and match in vertex distribution, seems like the vertices at the seam were left out of that process and keep the vanilla vertex count instead. I would expect hands and feet to have been built matching the body 100%, but then again, it could have caused issues or seams with non-UUNP meshes, specially from outfits and such, so I guess it was a matter of deciding which one to fit to, and they went for vanilla vertex count at the seam. Oh, well.

Not only do you want my UV layout but if you're going to muck with tris you want my fix to the surprise morph. I dunno what happened there but that was a mess and a PITA to fix.

 

I haven't loaded up Nitro's final version yet. I'll do that and get it sorted, then send along to you.

Sure. Send me the files and I'll see what I can do with them.

[NightroModzz]

 

 

 

I guess you could go the extra mile and match it yourself manually, but it may be a little too much. Whatever you prefer.

 

 

Lol, I already did it with the _1 body I just sent you. No seams in that one. 

[Tykune]

So I installed Yiffy Age of Skyrim and along with it, ApachiiSkyHair. So I then installed the YiffyAgeHairpatch, and now in load order (the right panel in MO) next to YiffyAgeHairPatch.esp, its stating 'Missing Masters - KS Hairdo's.esp' and I am not sure why.

 

EDIT: Apparently, the hair patch comes with a patch for KS Hairdo's, but the Yiffy Age of Skyrim mod doesn't use KS Hairdos as far as I know.