Windows 10 Anniversary Update...

[kepler78]

and everyone this is why im staying with windows 7 why fix something that doesn't need fixing

 

The problem is that W7's memory and hardware management is very... slow compared to W10. I use both of them in Pro editions, and that's the point. To get you an example, with my 190+ mods on Skyrim, I'm about 59.9/60FPS constant on Skyrim. On W7, it's more... up and down ! Even with Super Street Fight 4, W10 show 299 FPS constant. W7 is floating beetween 270 and 290.

 

So, maybe 7 is better for graphic and memory allocations on DX9, but for the rest, it's too old and starts to be up to dated.

 

(Edit : And my skyrim is heavily scripted (Devious Devices, ZAZ, Bathing, Campfire, Dual Sheath and a lot of big mods. My Skyrim files folder is about to... 50GB at least XD)

 

Anyway, still no Win10 update showing up over here. No one I know IRL got it until now. Seems we'll have to wait again.

Maybe the update was for thoose who choose the insider's preview Updates, it could explain why he got the update and why we don't.

[Jazzman]

Makes me wonder why we'd never ever give away our grass-fed Argentine beef to customers for free, no matter where they might be, and we've seen a few yippee ki-yay anniversaries already. Doing so sounds utterly stupid to me from the producer's point of view, making the product look worthless - the opposite of commercial, unless... there's something seriously wrong with our beef (which would make it worthless on the international markets anyway).

 

Think different! Bill Gates ain't Santa Claus.

[Comrade Isbariya]

 

and everyone this is why im staying with windows 7 why fix something that doesn't need fixing

 

The problem is that W7's memory and hardware management is very... slow compared to W10. I use both of them in Pro editions, and that's the point. To get you an example, with my 190+ mods on Skyrim, I'm about 59.9/60FPS constant on Skyrim. On W7, it's more... up and down ! Even with Super Street Fight 4, W10 show 299 FPS constant. W7 is floating beetween 270 and 290.

 

So, maybe 7 is better for graphic and memory allocations on DX9, but for the rest, it's too old and starts to be up to dated.

 

(Edit : And my skyrim is heavily scripted (Devious Devices, ZAZ, Bathing, Campfire, Dual Sheath and a lot of big mods. My Skyrim files folder is about to... 50GB at least XD)

 

Anyway, still no Win10 update showing up over here. No one I know IRL got it until now. Seems we'll have to wait again.

Maybe the update was for thoose who choose the insider's preview Updates, it could explain why he got the update and why we don't.

 

 

And if it would show 3000FPS, the human eye can't see any difference anyway.  

Everything more than 30FPS is just being proud of numbers. 

 

The funny thing is: I'm running Win7 and Win10 on the same machine on 2 HDDs, and there are 3 games I run on both versions of Windows, they have their own installations. For me there is no difference in FPS at all. It just feels like they're running a lot smoother on Win7. 

 

It may be another thing for DX10/11/12 games, but I don't have any games that would run on DX10 and above other than DMC4, but that's not currently installed on Win7 as I'm not playing it that much anyway. 

[Jazzman]

And if it would show 3000FPS, the human eye can't see any difference anyway.  

Everything more than 30FPS is just being proud of numbers. 

True dat. This is because humans simply don't see in frames per second but in motion per time unit, simply to avoid stuttering reception at both a too low and a too high frame rate which inevitably leads to headache. No motion forces us to focus on parts of the watched scene, some, not all books of a large book shelf whose edges get blurred for us, for example. Same edge blurring occurs when our eye tries to follow the moves of a fast object like a gazelle. That defines us as predators btw and explains why herd animals stick to the flowing herd which makes it difficult for predators to focus on an individual. Usually they attack into the blue and choose their prey during the run. Lions could tell a tale. What FPS rate might be best for us to watch is hard to say. Movies still show up with stutter-free 24 FPS by good reasons (no blurring effect) and if they'd get reduced to 8 FPS or increased to 120 FPS the viewer would high probably feel utterly queer after an hour or two, a devastating effect for the sales. So, beyond 30 FPS the 'mine shows twice as many FPS than yours' is most likely just another useless 'penis competition'.

[Slammer64]

Nope, I got the update and I'm on the slow ring as they call it, I don't mess with "beta" software, even though this entire Win 10 thing feels like "beta"   But M$ has stated that some countries will receive the update later than others. Why? I don't know. It's like the Nov. update last year, lots of folks got it the day it came out, but I didn't see it in my update pipeline for almost a week.

[dreifast]

Thanks for the heads up, my machine has been working great, so for safety i went and activated differ updates, i'm in no hurry

[prinyo]

It seems not everybody is aware that MS incorporated some of the WIN10 snooping features into 7 and 8 recently...

 

Microsoft backports data slurp to Windows 7 and 8 via patches

 

Microsoft accused of adding spy features to Windows 7, 8

[arkane14]

It seems not everybody is aware that MS incorporated some of the WIN10 snooping features into 7 and 8 recently...

 

Microsoft backports data slurp to Windows 7 and 8 via patches

 

Microsoft accused of adding spy features to Windows 7, 8

they also had  information gathering in windows xp, probably not with as much capability. I believe cortona can be disabled, some of microsofts information gathering can be stopped in settings, do a search online for how.

[guk]

Everything more than 30FPS is just being proud of numbers.

Okay that was a scientifical statement at around... World War II ?

 

Motions in PC games are not fluid below 60fps. That's just a fact.

Moving objects on a 2D monitor in optimal viewing distance are perceived completely different than the real world, that's why they have to add motion blur to get closer to a natural viewing experience.

 

Most people with halfway good eyes can also tell the difference between 60 and 120fps, although that is no longer quantifiable. It's just that an fps drop from 120 to 60 during gameplay is quite unpleasant, while 30fps are stuttering and 20fps feel like "wading through mud".

 

 

 

Also can you stop writing in green? It's fucking annoying. Otherwise it's just a few clicks for the ignore list.

[tazdotnet]

wow all the tin foil hats comin out of the woodwork

[tazdotnet]

Maybe the update was for thoose who choose the insider's preview Updates, it could explain why he got the update and why we don't.

nope, it's a staggered rollout, insiders have had the build for a couple weeks

[bjornk]

 

It seems not everybody is aware that MS incorporated some of the WIN10 snooping features into 7 and 8 recently...

 

Microsoft backports data slurp to Windows 7 and 8 via patches

 

Microsoft accused of adding spy features to Windows 7, 8

they also had  information gathering in windows xp, probably not with as much capability. I believe cortona can be disabled, some of microsofts information gathering can be stopped in settings, do a search online for how.

 

Unlike Windows 10, they are not embedded in the OS and can be removed easily. If you don't install every goddamn patch without even reading what it actually does, you won't even need to do that.

[dreifast]

Even more "good news":

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vyifo/bug_windows_10_anniversary_update_tanked/

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-attack-can-steal-your-username-password-and-other-logins/

[pinky6225]

 

Everything more than 30FPS is just being proud of numbers.

Okay that was a scientifical statement at around... World War II ?

 

Motions in PC games are not fluid below 60fps. That's just a fact.

Moving objects on a 2D monitor in optimal viewing distance are perceived completely different than the real world, that's why they have to add motion blur to get closer to a natural viewing experience.

 

Most people with halfway good eyes can also tell the difference between 60 and 120fps, although that is no longer quantifiable. It's just that an fps drop from 120 to 60 during gameplay is quite unpleasant, while 30fps are stuttering and 20fps feel like "wading through mud".

 

 

 

Also can you stop writing in green? It's fucking annoying. Otherwise it's just a few clicks for the ignore list.

 

 

I'd also wonder why the steam VR test i did said you need to maintain 90+ FPS for a good VR experience what with the eye not being able to detect 60 odd of the frames (allegedly)

 

[bjornk]

With the UWP and everything, it seems to me that they are turning Windows into a platform under their complete control, something like PSN perhaps. I'm sure you can imagine what that implies, especially for the future of PC gaming.

[Jazzman]

I'd also wonder why the steam VR test i did said you need to maintain 90+ FPS for a good VR experience what with the eye not being able to detect 60 odd of the frames (allegedly)

It's called third party product promotion. In other words, they get paid for the little service. Surprised? That's how it goes on planet Earth.

[coffeeink]

No issues here with the update. Still love the linux bash feature

[pinky6225]

 

I'd also wonder why the steam VR test i did said you need to maintain 90+ FPS for a good VR experience what with the eye not being able to detect 60 odd of the frames (allegedly)

It's called third party product promotion. In other words, they get paid for the little service. Surprised? That's how it goes on planet Earth.

 

 

uh huh so no actual attempt to provide this science of "human eye can only see 30 fps" just a tin foil hat theory its all a marketting scam

 

I've tried looking myself on google but i keep hitting web pages like "there is a common misconception in human thinking that our eyes can only interpret 30 Frames Per Second" which is kinda hindering my own research

 

[Jazzman]

 

 

I'd also wonder why the steam VR test i did said you need to maintain 90+ FPS for a good VR experience what with the eye not being able to detect 60 odd of the frames (allegedly)

It's called third party product promotion. In other words, they get paid for the little service. Surprised? That's how it goes on planet Earth.

 

 

uh huh so no actual attempt to provide this science of "human eye can only see 30 fps" just a tin foil hat theory its all a marketting scam

 

I've tried looking myself on google but i keep hitting web pages like "there is a common misconception in human thinking that our eyes can only interpret 30 Frames Per Second" which is kinda hindering my own research

 

Guess you guys are indeed running around with the mentioned tin foil hat /w antenna, receiving good techno news from above... to buy into literally any crap and repeat it in good parrot fashion. Well, that's fine by me 'cause it ain't my money that gets spent hand over fist just to feel good like a drug addict for a brief moment in time. Whateva, only dead fish swim with the stream, the proverb has it, but who should resurrect them and why? Every good man is free. Cha!

[prinyo]

With the UWP and everything, it seems to me that they are turning Windows into a platform under their complete control, something like PSN perhaps. I'm sure you can imagine what that implies, especially for the future of PC gaming.

 

 

 

Everything is possible :-)

 

M$ is desperately trying to copy Google, the problem is - it simply can't. People are willing to forgive Google everything, because in return they get quality software and services.

[RitualClarity]

Running 10 Pro on my "gaming" rig and 8.1 on my "work horse" rig.  Neither have had any issues..........well......except for that porn virus I caught..........          

 

Computer Coodies... (STDs) lol

 

[RitualClarity]

 

 

Everything more than 30FPS is just being proud of numbers.

Okay that was a scientifical statement at around... World War II ?

 

Motions in PC games are not fluid below 60fps. That's just a fact.

Moving objects on a 2D monitor in optimal viewing distance are perceived completely different than the real world, that's why they have to add motion blur to get closer to a natural viewing experience.

 

Most people with halfway good eyes can also tell the difference between 60 and 120fps, although that is no longer quantifiable. It's just that an fps drop from 120 to 60 during gameplay is quite unpleasant, while 30fps are stuttering and 20fps feel like "wading through mud".

 

 

 

Also can you stop writing in green? It's fucking annoying. Otherwise it's just a few clicks for the ignore list.

 

 

I'd also wonder why the steam VR test i did said you need to maintain 90+ FPS for a good VR experience what with the eye not being able to detect 60 odd of the frames (allegedly)

 

 

 

it might have to do with those that get motion sickness from VR. You need a very fast refresh to avoid that and make it "real" for them. You don't have that same experience between your eyes and monitor as you have other items around the moving objects on the monitor. It helps stabilize you. I get this myself (with my big black alien eyes ) and I have to tweak some of the settings of the games to get a better refresh rate or upgrade my hardware. Reason I am sticking with 1080p because now a decent graphic card can easily keep up with 40~60 frames (including minimize mircorstutter which is the most important aspect.)

 

I tried out a VR rig on a near min system and got disoriented and sick in a few minutes. . Need a really beefy rig to avoid that experience. Not going to take motion sickness pills to play a dam game

 

[aim4it]

In VR there are two offset images being rendered, that's why the frame rate has to be doubled.  That's how Stereoscopic works.

[prinyo]

Not sure if VR fits the topic of the thread, but in order to prevent some confusion...

 

Steam checks for 90 FPS because that's what Valve decided is best for VR experience and that's what their HTC Vive expects. In fact if you drop below 30 it starts to flicker. Oculus is more forgiving in this regard. However for the player it is better to not drop below 45 as this can cause real life sickness. 90fps is considered the minimum in order to avoid motion sickness. 

Before trying any VR (Vive) on a PC run the tool Steam provides. If you fall within the green zone there is no reason why your experience would be bad. Start with the tutorial and the Lab. Or one of the apps/games Steam lists as VR. They are built for this, they will run at 90fps and are completely safe and enjoyable.

After(!) you have done this you can try playing Skyrim or Fallout in VR. At the moment this is possible using Vorpx - app that you need to pay for and that "converts" nonVR games into VR experience. The problem with Vorpx is that it's default settings are quite hostile for novice users. The first 3 days after installing it and trying to play Skyrim I managed to stay in VR for about 10 minutes and then I got dizzy and I had headaches for hours after that. But after that I learned how to tweak it. I'm planning to start a mega-VR thread soon seeing that many people experience VR for the first time in a bad way. 

My point is - there is no reason why your VR experience should be bad (if the Steam tool puts your PC in the green). 

 

On the point of double rendering. Vorpx has an alternative to that. It has a fake3D mode that doesn't require the PC to render the game two times. It does still require the game to run at at least 45fps so it can insert it's own "fake" frames - the game itself is capped at 45fps but the headset receives a 90fps stream - hence no motion sickness. 

[pinky6225]

Not sure if VR fits the topic of the thread, but in order to prevent some confusion...

 

Steam checks for 90 FPS because that's what Valve decided is best for VR experience and that's what their HTC Vive expects. In fact if you drop below 30 it starts to flicker. Oculus is more forgiving in this regard. However for the player it is better to not drop below 45 as this can cause real life sickness. 90fps is considered the minimum in order to avoid motion sickness. 

Before trying any VR (Vive) on a PC run the tool Steam provides. If you fall within the green zone there is no reason why your experience would be bad. Start with the tutorial and the Lab. Or one of the apps/games Steam lists as VR. They are built for this, they will run at 90fps and are completely safe and enjoyable.

After(!) you have done this you can try playing Skyrim or Fallout in VR. At the moment this is possible using Vorpx - app that you need to pay for and that "converts" nonVR games into VR experience. The problem with Vorpx is that it's default settings are quite hostile for novice users. The first 3 days after installing it and trying to play Skyrim I managed to stay in VR for about 10 minutes and then I got dizzy and I had headaches for hours after that. But after that I learned how to tweak it. I'm planning to start a mega-VR thread soon seeing that many people experience VR for the first time in a bad way. 

My point is - there is no reason why your VR experience should be bad (if the Steam tool puts your PC in the green). 

 

On the point of double rendering. Vorpx has an alternative to that. It has a fake3D mode that doesn't require the PC to render the game two times. It does still require the game to run at at least 45fps so it can insert it's own "fake" frames - the game itself is capped at 45fps but the headset receives a 90fps stream - hence no motion sickness. 

 

You seem quite knowledge about this so maybe you can answer this, the assertion was that the human eye can not see above 30 fps (due to some study done ages ago that i can't find) so why would you get sick at 45 fps or require 90 fps if you aren't able to see 15 or 60 of those frames

 

I am genuinely curious as to where this 30 fps thing has come from, trying to find anything about it via google just results in lots of web pages calling it a myth