Status of FO4 scene? Almost dead?

[Love Space]

 

 

I said that before, don't know if was in this topic, but whatever....

Bethesda grown, and them their games are not so special anymore, is business, Bethesda.net broke the community in many many ways...

The game itself is not so mod friendly, check ENB for example, Boris cannot make a lot of stuff in ENB because bethesda remove the keys that he use and he don't want to put this keys again because the game updates everytime, and we can talk about HDT etc... but what makes a huge magic in skyrim was ENB.

So... i think fo4 is a good game, but will take time to be a AMAZING game, and i bet that next year bethesda will release a new game, the new IP they said, just hope this new game don't divide our community more.

Fallout New Orleans? lol

And it just isn't mod friendly because bethesda is not yet done for updates, can we give them a break? the game just camed out and is fresh, not a year yet but the community continues bashes the game. Once everything is done on Bethesda side, modding will be friendly then. But can we wait for atleast the game been out a year to start bashing bethesda?

 

 

Not New Orleans, this is just a rumor, and i don't think is for real, at least not for now, but a new ip.

 

I cannot stop bashing Bethesda... Because nothing works... The site is crap, the bethesda.net is HUGE crap, the game is cool i can say a lot of good stuff about FO4, but they release patch that need patch, they said a LOT of stuff that would be done for FO4, and nothing is done, remember when they said that every update will bring new stuff to the game like they do in skyrim? PS4 mods, this was a really bad joke, they would lissen to the community to see what DLC they would do, most of people say "more mission, no more workshops please" what we get? And them nukaworld, the name emerge for the first time before fo4 was release, this to not mention that beta crap program, that EVERYONE could get the game before any one who buy it.

 

Sorry, FO4 is cool, i like it, would still buy it, will play it for some time, but bethesda... i just cannot see something good in there...

 

 

Fallout 4 mods not happening on PS4 are by sony's agreement and they did not allow Fallout 4 mods, they wanted no part of their consoles having mods for FO4, not bethesda's fault. As quoted "According to Bethesda, Sony will not “approve user mods the way they should work.” Because of this, mod support for Fallout 4 or Skyrim Special Edition won’t be available until Sony can “offer proper mod support for PS4."

 

I would not say FO4 modding is dead, but rather on hold.

trying to mod a game that is being updated constantly can mess up a project. (Racemenu mod has to be updated each time bethesda annouces a update.)

Creation Kit is still beta and and astrocious to make any big project from what I've read.

Even the Author of "ARES" said without the CK being finished, that the race mod wouldn't be a cake walk to do.

When everything is done, I'm sure the modding will be alive.

Unless we want constant retexture mods or some stats editting for guns, I'd say anything big is on hold. Not dead.

 

I think you're right there.

 

I'm certainly waiting for SKSE for fallout 4 to fill in all the programming gaps that we take for granted in Skyrim. I have already tried to build similar mods to the ones I've done for Skyrim and the functions required simply don't exist in Fallout 4 yet and, of course, we do not yet have SexLab style framework to plug into for adult mods.

 

As soon as everything coding wise is up to the same level as Skyrim then I think a lot of people will transition across, I'm certainly chomping at the bit ready to go!

 

I agree! I hope to make actual custom animation like new gun aiming animation and a custom land with quests but the way I have read how difficult and impossible to do anything like that, I just left the idea on hold. Saying the modding scene is dead is a strong word, not a lot can be done at the moment.

My favourite map mod for skyrim was "Aethersuite" I am hoping to make some sort of city like Aethersuite concept. Somewhere in Beijing China maybe with quest?

[xdeath]

 

I think what some are trying to say, is 4 years ago today Skyrims modding scene met and exceeded what was achieved in Fallout: NV, Fallout 3, and Oblivions modding scenes.

Not only has Fallout 4's scene failed to come even close to Skyrims scene, but it can't even compare to New Vegas, F3 or Oblivion's mod scenes.

 

Bethesda is almost entirely to blame for it, too. They delayed the release of the GECK to develop their own shitty mod platform. Their post release support has been less than satisfactory. Probably some other reasons as well...

 

No matter, it will come. It will be late, but it will be here for sure.

 

I think your so wrong! Please try to consider how old Fallout 4 is! Today on Nexus - Skyrim = 49,531 mods, Oblivion = 28,033 mods, FNV = 17,454 mods, Fallout 4 = 14,779 mods.

 

I think you need to reread my post. I've bolded and changed to red the key point you missed. "4 years ago today" means October 3, 2012 or, at the date I originally posted, October 2, 2012. So, that means that on October 2nd 2012, almost a year into Skyrims release(it was released November 11, 2011), Skyrim had achieved more than previous titles ever did. Although, that is subjective.

 

Also, it's important to understand Quantity does not equate to Quality. Citing numbers without context doesn't help.

[RustyXXL]

 

 

I think you need to reread my post. I've bolded and changed to red the key point you missed. "4 years ago today" means October 3, 2012 or, at the date I originally posted, October 2, 2012. So, that means that on October 2nd 2012, almost a year into Skyrims release(it was released November 11, 2011), Skyrim had achieved more than previous titles ever did. Although, that is subjective.

 

Also, it's important to understand Quantity does not equate to Quality. Citing numbers without context doesn't help.

 

 

Additionally there is no way to adequatly compare the number of mods after a year into the development to another game.

If you compare the numbers of mods Skyrim has today with the number of mods FO4 has today, you ignore the time that has passed. If you compare the number of FO4 mods today with the number of Skyrim mods 4 years ago you ignore any development and shifting in the number of modders etc. In general if you compare FO4 with Skyrim you forget that there is a number who don't like SciFi (Well, more SciFantasy in the case of FO4, but whatever ^^) vs a number of people that don't like fantasy and those numbers don't neccessarily match each other.

In short, you can tailor these numbers to reoresent whatever argument you want to prove.

 

Still I do agree that Bethesda did some mistakes, but I still don't see FO4 abandoned by modders. There still are new mods coming out, and there still are some big projects in the works, and everything else only time will tell.

[garg]

 

 

 

I think you need to reread my post. I've bolded and changed to red the key point you missed. "4 years ago today" means October 3, 2012 or, at the date I originally posted, October 2, 2012. So, that means that on October 2nd 2012, almost a year into Skyrims release(it was released November 11, 2011), Skyrim had achieved more than previous titles ever did. Although, that is subjective.

 

Also, it's important to understand Quantity does not equate to Quality. Citing numbers without context doesn't help.

 

 

Additionally there is no way to adequatly compare the number of mods after a year into the development to another game.

If you compare the numbers of mods Skyrim has today with the number of mods FO4 has today, you ignore the time that has passed. If you compare the number of FO4 mods today with the number of Skyrim mods 4 years ago you ignore any development and shifting in the number of modders etc. In general if you compare FO4 with Skyrim you forget that there is a number who don't like SciFi (Well, more SciFantasy in the case of FO4, but whatever ^^) vs a number of people that don't like fantasy and those numbers don't neccessarily match each other.

In short, you can tailor these numbers to reoresent whatever argument you want to prove.

 

Still I do agree that Bethesda did some mistakes, but I still don't see FO4 abandoned by modders. There still are new mods coming out, and there still are some big projects in the works, and everything else only time will tell.

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. Please read my post again! It's a comparison of total mods at the present. I don't have exact figures but IMHO Fallout 4 is achieving the same if not better popularity as Skyrim did in its first year, regardless of quality of mods!

Also while I'm  having a rant, the people whining about the lack of tools what is with that? Bethesda never gave us anything bar the Creation Kit and a couple of other minor tools with Skyrim, the rest came from third party developers!

[Guest]

 

Also while I'm  having a rant, the people whining about the lack of tools what is with that? Bethesda never gave us anything bar the Creation Kit and a couple of other minor tools with Skyrim, the rest came from third party developers!

 

 

Yes, we have the creation kit but it is severely limited without an SKSE equivalent to allow complex events to be scripted. Without that we simply cannot produce mods to the same level as the ones in Skyrim.

 

This then has a knock on effect as frameworks (such as SexLab) cannot be produced which means modders can't plug into existing systems.

 

It will get there eventually, but currently I feel completely stuck as I cannot replicate my Skyrim mods in Fallout 4 yet.

[xdeath]

 

I think you misunderstood me. Please read my post again! It's a comparison of total mods at the present. I don't have exact figures but IMHO Fallout 4 is achieving the same if not better popularity as Skyrim did in its first year, regardless of quality of mods!

Also while I'm  having a rant, the people whining about the lack of tools what is with that? Bethesda never gave us anything bar the Creation Kit and a couple of other minor tools with Skyrim, the rest came from third party developers!

 

Honestly, I don't understand how you are not seeing it. The modding community isn't dead, as this thread title suggests. I didn't say that, I don't believe that. But it is kind of a late bloom, so to speak. It's only beginning to pick up now.

As for the "lack of tools" it has to do with the GECK being released even later than the creation kit. 3rd party devs couldn't do anything until it's initial release.

 

 

 

Additionally there is no way to adequatly compare the number of mods after a year into the development to another game.

If you compare the numbers of mods Skyrim has today with the number of mods FO4 has today, you ignore the time that has passed. If you compare the number of FO4 mods today with the number of Skyrim mods 4 years ago you ignore any development and shifting in the number of modders etc. In general if you compare FO4 with Skyrim you forget that there is a number who don't like SciFi (Well, more SciFantasy in the case of FO4, but whatever ^^) vs a number of people that don't like fantasy and those numbers don't neccessarily match each other.

In short, you can tailor these numbers to reoresent whatever argument you want to prove.

 

Still I do agree that Bethesda did some mistakes, but I still don't see FO4 abandoned by modders. There still are new mods coming out, and there still are some big projects in the works, and everything else only time will tell.

 

The best thing I could come up with numbers wise is to compare the Unique Download counts on the Nexus, for similar mods.

I believe that is tied to accounts.

But then... that only has to do with what is popular with the userbase than it is to do with the overall state of the modding community, or the number of quality mods.

[Halstrom]

You also got to remember a lot of modders couldn't be bothered creating a Bethnet account to get the CK, it used to just be a Steam item and they are waiting for a finished steam release. CK is still being updated every few weeks.

To a lot of users who might become potential modders there are no easy to get legit tools. The CK is hidden in the bowels of Bethnet as far as they are concerned.

[RustyXXL]

The best thing I could come up with numbers wise is to compare the Unique Download counts on the Nexus, for similar mods.

I believe that is tied to accounts.

But then... that only has to do with what is popular with the userbase than it is to do with the overall state of the modding community, or the number of quality mods.

 

 

What's even worse is that, given you have a certain minimum quality and amount of content, you can ultimately influence the popularity of your mod to a certain degree. You need a certain amount of initial interest, that's true, but there are certain things you can do that greatly increase your chances of getting into the hot files, which will in turn greatly increase the exposure of your mod. I don't want to go into to much details here, but I'm pretty sure, that this has been done by some people in the past. But in turn that means, that even download counts, number of endorsements and hot/top files on the nexus are ultimately meaningless for any comparisons or measurements of popularity.

And just to add: I'm not saying the system nexus had is bad. It is better than a lot of other systems, and I wouldn't have a better. I'm just saying that it is exploitable, as pretty much every other system would be, if you figure out how, and I certainly don't have a better system.

 

[pipdude]

I think that a lack of F4SE is holding back the basic mods that then motivate people to make a bunch of dependent mods.

 

It also could be that many veteran modders put a lot of work into Skyrim mods. Re-making old mods for a new game isn't as interesting work as making a never before seen mod.

[Jazzman]

I think that a lack of F4SE is holding back the basic mods that then motivate people to make a bunch of dependent mods.

 

It also could be that many veteran modders put a lot of work into Skyrim mods. Re-making old mods for a new game isn't as interesting work as making a never before seen mod.

What 'basic mods' are you guys talking about, huh? Get the impression as if our beloved politicians ain't the only ones that worship a phantasmagoria. I for one play Bethesda games since 2002 and I'd not say that I miss anything in my FA4 game compared to earlier ones, and I'm in my fourth online year in Boston already...

[pipdude]

 

I think that a lack of F4SE is holding back the basic mods that then motivate people to make a bunch of dependent mods.

 

It also could be that many veteran modders put a lot of work into Skyrim mods. Re-making old mods for a new game isn't as interesting work as making a never before seen mod.

What 'basic mods' are you guys talking about, huh? Get the impression as if our beloved politicians ain't the only ones that worship a phantasmagoria. I for one play Bethesda games since 2002 and I'd not say that I miss anything in my FA4 game compared to earlier ones, and I'm in my fourth online year in Boston already...

 

 

Does your modded Skyrim build not include SKSE?

[Jazzman]

Does your modded Skyrim build not include SKSE?

No, probably because I build my char in the week of release, not months or years after. I'm pretty sure, however, that SKSE got first released before Xmas 2011, just a month after game release. Is thus the 'delay' or absence in case of FA4 a problem for your personal game experience? Well, for me it isn't, to be fair. The unprofessional high polygon crap in the Financial District that sucks FPS like a junkie is...

[pipdude]

 

Does your modded Skyrim build not include SKSE?

No, probably because I build my char in the week of release, not months or years after. I'm pretty sure, however, that SKSE got first released before Xmas 2011, just a month after game release. Is thus the 'delay' or absence in case of FA4 a problem for your personal game experience? Well, for me it isn't, to be fair. The unprofessional high polygon crap in the Financial District that sucks FPS like a junkie is...

 

 

I would estimate that 75% or more of the Skyrim mod community is using mods that rely on SKSE.

[Jazzman]

 

 

Does your modded Skyrim build not include SKSE?

No, probably because I build my char in the week of release, not months or years after. I'm pretty sure, however, that SKSE got first released before Xmas 2011, just a month after game release. Is thus the 'delay' or absence in case of FA4 a problem for your personal game experience? Well, for me it isn't, to be fair. The unprofessional high polygon crap in the Financial District that sucks FPS like a junkie is...

 

 

I would estimate that 75% or more of the Skyrim mod community is using mods that rely on SKSE.

 

Wanna impress me with majority behavior in the gaming scene (or elsewhere)? I always must giggle when I see ENB images, high-rated by 'indoctrinated' majorities despite the Martian color schemes used, doubtlessly an unconscious credit to Picasso and other Cubists. Look, most people can't even create a human face on the sliders and thus rely on later uploaded prefabs. Are they to blame? Of course not but that doesn't mean that this would be the only way... or the highway, right?

[Kimy]

As far as I go, the lack of F4SE is indeed holding me back. It's absolutely mindboggling how many basic API functions are missing in the vanilla API. Stuff that you really think is basic is just not there. So you are going to bump into walls constantly when trying to code things in FO4 that are super straightforward to do in SKSE-Skyrim.

[Halstrom]

Yep, so many basic things in scripting are so clunky and hard to do without a script extender we have to add 72 tokens to a player to represent 72% of something or cast a spell on them to label them ready for step 2 to happen. So easy to turn a simple mod into a lagfest too, by doing everything in convoluted workarounds.

FO4SE was released a month after the game too, but like SKSE at Xmas 2011 it was a really basic Alpha.

[Kimy]

FO4SE was released a month after the game too, but like SKSE at Xmas 2011 it was a really basic Alpha.

 

And there isn't even a API documentation around yet (at least I haven't found any), so you actually need to read the source to find out what's there.

 

[Halstrom]

 

FO4SE was released a month after the game too, but like SKSE at Xmas 2011 it was a really basic Alpha.

 

And there isn't even a API documentation around yet (at least I haven't found any), so you actually need to read the source to find out what's there.

 

Yep I haven't bothered installing it or any mods using it for that reason. From what I gather there's only 1 or 2 Papyrus commands so far anyway. I suspect they don't want too many people using it till FO4 stabilises anyway, maybe next Beth update if we are lucky.

[jaam]

Yep, so many basic things in scripting are so clunky and hard to do without a script extender we have to add 72 tokens to a player to represent 72% of something or cast a spell on them to label them ready for step 2 to happen. So easy to turn a simple mod into a lagfest too, by doing everything in convoluted workarounds.

FO4SE was released a month after the game too, but like SKSE at Xmas 2011 it was a really basic Alpha.

 

That's what actor value are for

[Halstrom]

That's what actor value are for

I didn't know that, are you saying we can define new actor values for NPC's?

Or just having a joke, you made me look and I can't find anything

[Kuroitsune]

 

I didn't know that, are you saying we can define new actor values for NPC's?

Or just having a joke, you made me look and I can't find anything

 

From what I understand no. You can add a new one to an NPC using a spell, and modify it that way, but only that NPC will have it. Like the paint jobs on Power Armor, each piece stacks the AV on the player and when it reaches x the effect kicks in. I haven't messed with it much but that's how I understand it.

[jaam]

No. You can add AV to any NPC, in fact to any REFR as you want. So if you can find the actor to add some tokens to its inventory you can just as well add, or more exactly modify the AV on that actor/ref. If you check the AV on a ref that never had it set or modified, you get the default value you specified when creating the AV Info form. That lets you create an "infinite" number of float variables on your refs. In fact using AV as percentage is in fact easy, just tick a checkbox in the AV Info form.

 

To create an AV Info, look under Miscellaneous or check the wiki. That is actually one of the few pages where the changes from Skyrim are properly documented.

 

 

 

[VonHelton]

October 24th is my birthday........I'd like to know I can bang Piper on my birthday!

 

[Halstrom]

October 24th is my birthday........I'd like to know I can bang Piper on my birthday!

 

You can.

[Jayce Dimmer]

No. You can add AV to any NPC, in fact to any REFR as you want. So if you can find the actor to add some tokens to its inventory you can just as well add, or more exactly modify the AV on that actor/ref. If you check the AV on a ref that never had it set or modified, you get the default value you specified when creating the AV Info form. That lets you create an "infinite" number of float variables on your refs. In fact using AV as percentage is in fact easy, just tick a checkbox in the AV Info form.

 

To create an AV Info, look under Miscellaneous or check the wiki. That is actually one of the few pages where the changes from Skyrim are properly documented.

 

And if you want to add it to every pre-existing NPC, FO4Edit's the king of that. Would only take around 8 lines of code, tops.