Status of FO4 scene? Almost dead?

[skeletor]

I always seen mods as, modders created that "mod" for themselves first and as a goodwill they shared it with public. Maybe Im just not with the times anymore.  I dont mind modders getting paid for them. But there is so much stuff that can happen with that setup. As others have mentioned. Look at the console stuff thievery. Why would Bethesda spend resources on something that they're not gonna profit in large? By maintaining and policing who stole what mod and so on.

 

Lets say each mod costs $1 for skyrim. Some people have 1000 (maybe I dont really know) mods installed for that game. Hell even 100 mods would end up costing $100. Well fuck that.

 

 

 

 

[ilostmysn1210]

 

 

I'm not forking over money for a mod.  Hell, I think the concept of DLC is complete and utter bullshit.  It only encourages companies to release an incomplete game and go "Oh, we'll put this in the DLC".  

 

 

You never have to pay for a mod or DLC. You also don't get to play with it. Paid mods do not encourage companies to release incomplete games. For-Profit companies will create 75% of a game, release it and then subsequently charge $30 for each 5% as DLC, because users pay for it. It's as simple as that. If you don't like it then don't buy the game.

 

DLC aside, if a mod changes the game for the better and you enjoyed many hours of it then paying a few dollars shouldn't be a problem. 

 

The whole steam paid mods thing would be fine but there will always be thieves, people with skill looking for a quick buck and genuine modders asking for payment. I remember some asshole charging $10 for a mesh/texture addition and they were stolen assets. A donation system is always a better way to go because in the end a user will retrieve what they want. (Dirty pirates)

 

• As a professional modder: I would want to be paid for the time and effort I place in mods. I would charge nothing for small mods and I would charge $2 to $5 on other projects. At the same time I would use a donation system and heavily suggest donations in order to spread the mods popularity.
• As an enthusiast: I wouldn't care to much as I would be building a portfolio or just messing around, but I would definitely add a donation button if I could because why not? They aren't force to pay for it and someone will appreciate me by giving me a buck or two. 
• As an end user: I wouldn't use a mod if it made me pay for it until I saw reviews and decided it would be okay. This is why most big name mods ask YouTubers to review it or wait for some well known person to do it for them. If a donation button exists and i liked the mod, I would throw them a few bucks.

In the end, modding a game is for entertainment. Some people pay for it and others want it for free. Shoot for what you want and move on.

[A She-Wolf]

 

Hell, I think the concept of DLC is complete and utter bullshit.  It only encourages companies to release an incomplete game and go "Oh, we'll put this in the DLC".  

 

 

 

Totally this. I think you guys have gone waaaay off topic in this thread with this discussion. It has nothing at all to do with what the mod community looks like right now. 

 

 

 

Beth and Steam tried to tell modders they could get paid for their work. And a portion of that pay went straight to them. That's what it was about. The modders that went with this had it all wrong and were screwing themselves from all sides; and the ones who are still modding despite that understand they made a mistake. I guess no mention of direct donations and patreons should be here(you know, the right way to fully support mod makers).

 

A lot of assets that go into new mods are shared from many things. And you shouldn't expect to get paid for labor that isn't your own, even(especially) when companies like Bethesda, nVidia and Steam think they can. But you can make something very nice for yourself, and share it with everyone else. Which is how most modders see it.

 

Lover's Lab wouldn't exist if this community didn't like sharing. If mods were real life resources, then you guys would still be arguing the pros and cons of capitalism in a flourishing communist utopia. 

 

 

[parrotheada1a]

Let me add something here. Payware content isn't new. I used to be active with both flight simulator and train simulator. Both of these have huge communities, same as we do here. There are people out there who made stuff for free and that's how it started. Good, bad or whatever it's what was there. Then companies and individuals got the idea to charge for their content once Microsoft changed their EULA. It got to the point where most of the better add ons are payware and wholly accepted by the community.

[smudge78]

Point is, people, stupidly, thought for some unknown reason that all the mods Skyrim had, breakthroughs, etc, automatically = FO4 would have instantaneously. And because some folks weren't fapping to sextec a week after FO4's release nor a week after the CK's release, threads like these get started.

 

There are some great mods for FO4 currently that I'd wager give Skyrims mods( in the same time frame ) a run for their money. No, there are no sex mods( actual functioning sex mods not alpha proof of concept shit ) but that in no way = FO4 mod scene dying. Get a grip folks.

[TNG]

I don't see a reason as to why steam (or anything else) doesn't go for a donation system instead. While most users might be against paying for mods (or simply aren't mentally prepared for such a change yet), there are still a lot of people out there that would be willing to donate a few bucks for a mod they really like. It most probably wouldn't sum up to the same amount as forced paying, it still would give them a little bit of additional income and reason to continue their work.

 

Personally, I think the reason as to why it ended up in such a shitstorm was mostly because it was too sudden. If the things you always had been getting for free without a second thought suddenly become a product you have to pay for, people will get angry about that. It doesn't even matter if it is justified or not.

 

 

I haven't been too much into the whole modding scene on either side (modder and user). But as far as I can see it, there aren't many ways to actually support a modder via donation or whatsoever. The only thing I know of is a not-easy-to-find donation system on Nexus, in which you either can donate premium membership, or directly to their paypal adress, IF they set it up. Either way, it is not exactly obvious that such a system is actually in place, so I would guess that not many people even consider doing so.

 

I think you're right there. The suddenness is what killed it. 

Here's my concerns when it comes to paid mods though. I don't trust people. People are opportunistic bastards.

Inherently good, but still opportunistic bastards. 

 

If you open a system where anyone can charge for mods, everyone will. Regardless of quality. And with mods there's no guarantee of quality. And if you can sell mods without oversight, you will get scams, thieves and cheats as we've seen with Steam Greenlight. I like the idea that Nexus uses with a donations button but that's still only a partial fix. It's not a guarantee that artists will be paid for their work. And it is WORK.

Also, while some mods do deserve to be paid content, paid status should come with certain requirements, like maybe guaranteed support to update the mod if the game gets updated. And if it's not updated, the mod loses it's "paid conent" status.

There's no doubt that some mods like "Climates of Tamriel" deserve to be paid content. But, that does come with a significant problem. Mods gain popularity slowly and mostly because they are FREE. 

The first release of the Skyrim "Climates" mod wasn't "paid content" worthy, but it sure as hell became that over time. 

Also, at this time there's no protections in place for stolen assets or code between mods. But what if I'm selling a mod that adds a survival system and someone else makes a mod that does the same thing? If it turns out they might have stolen a line or two of script from my mod, then they robbed me and I can sue. So how the hell is that handled? 

Steam won't investigate, they won't spend the time and effort to check every one of these. They'll probably just BanHammer the person I accuse. But then anyone who hated me could do the same to clean me off of the market as well. 

 

It's a simple concept that's very complicated in how it has to be implemented. 

What about a system where a modder has to apply for "paid content" status through Steam? The mod needs to meet some requirements first though. Maybe X number of endorsements, and/or mod has been uploaded for X amount of time, or something along those lines?

In that way a modder earns the right to sell his/her content as "Paid Content". And maybe that status carries over to the modder and not just the Mod? And if a mod that gets "paid status" via it's modder gets enough reports against it, it can loose that as "Paid Content" status until it earns it it self? 

[atrix]

I think having a good framework for paid mods would create a content wonderland; because many modders are professionals that currently mod in their spare time, and some of those people could make it their job.

 

I was cautiously excited when Bethesda first announced paid mods.  "Small studios will be able to make full size expansions without crazy legal contracts!" I thought.  Seeing tons of professional level content available as essentially "unofficial DLC" would have been pretty great.

 

Then everybody went nuts and the status quo was maintained...

[skeletor]

I think having a good framework for paid mods would create a content wonderland; because many modders are professionals that currently mod in their spare time, and some of those people could make it their job.

 

I was cautiously excited when Bethesda first announced paid mods.  "Small studios will be able to make full size expansions without crazy legal contracts!" I thought.  Seeing tons of professional level content available as essentially "unofficial DLC" would have been pretty great.

 

Then everybody went nuts and the status quo was maintained...

 

See that only works if you're only gonna download small amount of mods or mods that dont require other mods to function.

 

A lot mods out there go hand in hand. X mod requires Y mod which requires Z mod. With a paywall Modder of X. Will either have to make themselves the Y and Z mod. Or you have to pay for all three separately to different modders. But if modder of X creates everything. Then modders of Y and Z can say he/she stole my mod cause it looks way too similar. Just like TNG mentioned above.

 

Look at some of the Skyrim mods. To have one mod working the way its intended you need whole bunch of other mods. And those mods need other mods and so on. And if I need to pay for all those, how much money do I end up paying for just mods? And if I dont like it do I get my money back?

 

If I get my money back how does that work? Since its software I cant physically return it to prove I dont have it anymore. Who is gonna be in charge of all this legal process? Is betheseda or steam gonna do this for free? Hell no.

[Knaeggchen]

 

I don't see a reason as to why steam (or anything else) doesn't go for a donation system instead. While most users might be against paying for mods (or simply aren't mentally prepared for such a change yet), there are still a lot of people out there that would be willing to donate a few bucks for a mod they really like. It most probably wouldn't sum up to the same amount as forced paying, it still would give them a little bit of additional income and reason to continue their work.

 

Personally, I think the reason as to why it ended up in such a shitstorm was mostly because it was too sudden. If the things you always had been getting for free without a second thought suddenly become a product you have to pay for, people will get angry about that. It doesn't even matter if it is justified or not.

 

 

I haven't been too much into the whole modding scene on either side (modder and user). But as far as I can see it, there aren't many ways to actually support a modder via donation or whatsoever. The only thing I know of is a not-easy-to-find donation system on Nexus, in which you either can donate premium membership, or directly to their paypal adress, IF they set it up. Either way, it is not exactly obvious that such a system is actually in place, so I would guess that not many people even consider doing so.

 

I think you're right there. The suddenness is what killed it. 

Here's my concerns when it comes to paid mods though. I don't trust people. People are opportunistic bastards.

Inherently good, but still opportunistic bastards. 

 

If you open a system where anyone can charge for mods, everyone will. Regardless of quality. And with mods there's no guarantee of quality. And if you can sell mods without oversight, you will get scams, thieves and cheats as we've seen with Steam Greenlight. I like the idea that Nexus uses with a donations button but that's still only a partial fix. It's not a guarantee that artists will be paid for their work. And it is WORK.

Also, while some mods do deserve to be paid content, paid status should come with certain requirements, like maybe guaranteed support to update the mod if the game gets updated. And if it's not updated, the mod loses it's "paid conent" status.

There's no doubt that some mods like "Climates of Tamriel" deserve to be paid content. But, that does come with a significant problem. Mods gain popularity slowly and mostly because they are FREE. 

The first release of the Skyrim "Climates" mod wasn't "paid content" worthy, but it sure as hell became that over time. 

Also, at this time there's no protections in place for stolen assets or code between mods. But what if I'm selling a mod that adds a survival system and someone else makes a mod that does the same thing? If it turns out they might have stolen a line or two of script from my mod, then they robbed me and I can sue. So how the hell is that handled? 

Steam won't investigate, they won't spend the time and effort to check every one of these. They'll probably just BanHammer the person I accuse. But then anyone who hated me could do the same to clean me off of the market as well. 

 

It's a simple concept that's very complicated in how it has to be implemented. 

What about a system where a modder has to apply for "paid content" status through Steam? The mod needs to meet some requirements first though. Maybe X number of endorsements, and/or mod has been uploaded for X amount of time, or something along those lines?

In that way a modder earns the right to sell his/her content as "Paid Content". And maybe that status carries over to the modder and not just the Mod? And if a mod that gets "paid status" via it's modder gets enough reports against it, it can loose that as "Paid Content" status until it earns it it self? 

 

 

And therein lies the problem.

Most of your suggestions are based on the idea that the mod first needed to be released for free. I'll quote myself again:

 

If the things you always had been getting for free without a second thought suddenly become a product you have to pay for, people will get angry about that. It doesn't even matter if it is justified or not.

Example: Someone released a mod and it became popular fast. At first it was only a small thing, but due to the popularity the author decided to expand on it and it suddenly becomes a paid mod.

1. Problem: what happens to the current free version? Will it stay the same and be free, while having another standalone mod that will be a paid mod then? (2 versions)

Will the free version being upgraded and not attainable anymore?

 

2. Problem: Mods that are based of that work. Let's assume the mod in question is a framework, which many other mods are relying on. And it now becomes a paid mod. Will these mod only support the newest paid version (and thus forces their userbase to use a paid mod, even thought they themselves aren't), add support for both versions, or simply do ignore the newest version and stick with the old and free version?

 

Also, another problem with paid mods is compatibility and performance. On one hand, a paid product should somewhat be relyable and thus have an at least halfway decent performance and somewhat compatible with other mods. But how do you rate that performance and compatibility? On what basis?

There are reasons as to why companies do not offer support for modded games themselves, only vanilla versions. Because it's simply impossible to make sure performance and combatibility will be any good if you are running a ton of mods. You can't expect the company and/or the modder to take such a responsibility for each and every single mod out there and possible mod lists and load orders.

 

Speaking of compatibility...

A paid mod (at least in the way steam tried to use it) requires the user to pay for it before testing it. Well, no shit!, you are going to say, but that means they have the same problems with any such products: You can't properly test it before buying it.

How do you know the mod works the way you wish it would? What if you later decide it wasn't what you were expecting or not worth buying? What if it conflicts with other mods in your list? And if there are gamebreaking bugs (which might never be patched either)?

There is no refund button, and even if there were, it could be highly abused. Unlike with single games, you might probably take a looot of take just getting your modlist in order, setting them up or whatsoever. And some mods will only take effect in certain circumstances.

Have a look at me. I currently have 230h of gametime in skyrim, not a single one of this was actual gameplay. I never went further than killing the first dragon in vanilla, and that was in a "demo" version right after release. So this gametime isn't even recorded on my steamprofile.

 

And then there is the question of "support"... It's simply not realistic to expect a one-man-modding "team" to provide 24/7 support for their mods, especially with circumstances such as mentioned above.

 

There are simply waaaay to many issues that needs to be resolved first before paid modding has even a chance to become a thing. And given the difficulty to do so, i highly doubt this will happen (anytime soon).

 

 

 

Thus, I highly recommend to work on a proper donation system first. It is much easier to accomplish, and depending on the circumstances and execution has a chance of becoming even more lucrative for the mod authors (AND users) than a paywall.

[garg]

Point is, people, stupidly, thought for some unknown reason that all the mods Skyrim had, breakthroughs, etc, automatically = FO4 would have instantaneously. And because some folks weren't fapping to sextec a week after FO4's release nor a week after the CK's release, threads like these get started.

 

There are some great mods for FO4 currently that I'd wager give Skyrims mods( in the same time frame ) a run for their money. No, there are no sex mods( actual functioning sex mods not alpha proof of concept shit ) but that in no way = FO4 mod scene dying. Get a grip folks.

 

 Totally agree and it will surpass NV count on Nexus soon and F4SE isn't even complete so that's the answer to this threads question right there!

 

[Frel]

 

Point is, people, stupidly, thought for some unknown reason that all the mods Skyrim had, breakthroughs, etc, automatically = FO4 would have instantaneously. And because some folks weren't fapping to sextec a week after FO4's release nor a week after the CK's release, threads like these get started.

 

There are some great mods for FO4 currently that I'd wager give Skyrims mods( in the same time frame ) a run for their money. No, there are no sex mods( actual functioning sex mods not alpha proof of concept shit ) but that in no way = FO4 mod scene dying. Get a grip folks.

 

 Totally agree and it will surpass NV count on Nexus soon and F4SE isn't even complete so that's the answer to this threads question right there!

 

 

Agreed too, it is very human to compare things are they are now as opposed to where they were at the same phase of development (and repeated "is it out yet ?" on sextec thread confirms it). It is also typiocal to compare one thing to the "best" (skyrim is probably the game that had the most mods ever) to the average (in term of raw number of mods at nexus Fallout 4 sit right between FO3 and NV, as I speak and this is considering that those two have been modded for years now) 

 

The point is that while different (people struggled with things they did not expect while adavancing rather quickly on others), Fallout 4 modding progress seems to be pretty typical and even on par with skyrim (large mods we know and love on skyrim took years to even been remotely usable).

I woudl like to see where skyrim was standing 1 year after release I kind of expect that it was very similar to where Fallout stands now. Not saying that fallout 4 will be the same monster of modding as skyrim nor that there are indeed some modders that were not interested or gave up on this game but even for that I bet that some modders just did the same for skyrim (whether due to some controversy, the fact theat they weree just not that into the game or just decided to move on)

 

Thing is so far nothing shows that Fallout modding is really going stale (and even if it is slowing down right now it may just be that many modders wait for the proper tools for them to do nice things without needing to have deep knowledge on how to do those: f4se, animation, ...). People just need to chill and wait: deep modifications of games require a lot of reverse engineering and development, it was the case for Skyrim, and for previous Bethesda games. come back in 5 years and then we can talk wehether Fallout 4 did pick up on modding or not. 

 

Until then lets just enjoy what we have and whine about the game being oversimplified like we always do whenever a new BGS game comes out.

[TNG]

 

 

I think you're right there. The suddenness is what killed it. 

Here's my concerns when it comes to paid mods though. I don't trust people. People are opportunistic bastards.

Inherently good, but still opportunistic bastards. 

 

If you open a system where anyone can charge for mods, everyone will. Regardless of quality. And with mods there's no guarantee of quality. And if you can sell mods without oversight, you will get scams, thieves and cheats as we've seen with Steam Greenlight. I like the idea that Nexus uses with a donations button but that's still only a partial fix. It's not a guarantee that artists will be paid for their work. And it is WORK.

Also, while some mods do deserve to be paid content, paid status should come with certain requirements, like maybe guaranteed support to update the mod if the game gets updated. And if it's not updated, the mod loses it's "paid conent" status.

There's no doubt that some mods like "Climates of Tamriel" deserve to be paid content. But, that does come with a significant problem. Mods gain popularity slowly and mostly because they are FREE. 

The first release of the Skyrim "Climates" mod wasn't "paid content" worthy, but it sure as hell became that over time. 

Also, at this time there's no protections in place for stolen assets or code between mods. But what if I'm selling a mod that adds a survival system and someone else makes a mod that does the same thing? If it turns out they might have stolen a line or two of script from my mod, then they robbed me and I can sue. So how the hell is that handled? 

Steam won't investigate, they won't spend the time and effort to check every one of these. They'll probably just BanHammer the person I accuse. But then anyone who hated me could do the same to clean me off of the market as well. 

 

It's a simple concept that's very complicated in how it has to be implemented. 

What about a system where a modder has to apply for "paid content" status through Steam? The mod needs to meet some requirements first though. Maybe X number of endorsements, and/or mod has been uploaded for X amount of time, or something along those lines?

In that way a modder earns the right to sell his/her content as "Paid Content". And maybe that status carries over to the modder and not just the Mod? And if a mod that gets "paid status" via it's modder gets enough reports against it, it can loose that as "Paid Content" status until it earns it it self? 

 

 

And therein lies the problem.

Most of your suggestions are based on the idea that the mod first needed to be released for free. I'll quote myself again:

 

If the things you always had been getting for free without a second thought suddenly become a product you have to pay for, people will get angry about that. It doesn't even matter if it is justified or not.

Example: Someone released a mod and it became popular fast. At first it was only a small thing, but due to the popularity the author decided to expand on it and it suddenly becomes a paid mod.

1. Problem: what happens to the current free version? Will it stay the same and be free, while having another standalone mod that will be a paid mod then? (2 versions)

Will the free version being upgraded and not attainable anymore?

 

2. Problem: Mods that are based of that work. Let's assume the mod in question is a framework, which many other mods are relying on. And it now becomes a paid mod. Will these mod only support the newest paid version (and thus forces their userbase to use a paid mod, even thought they themselves aren't), add support for both versions, or simply do ignore the newest version and stick with the old and free version?

 

Also, another problem with paid mods is compatibility and performance. On one hand, a paid product should somewhat be relyable and thus have an at least halfway decent performance and somewhat compatible with other mods. But how do you rate that performance and compatibility? On what basis?

There are reasons as to why companies do not offer support for modded games themselves, only vanilla versions. Because it's simply impossible to make sure performance and combatibility will be any good if you are running a ton of mods. You can't expect the company and/or the modder to take such a responsibility for each and every single mod out there and possible mod lists and load orders.

 

Speaking of compatibility...

A paid mod (at least in the way steam tried to use it) requires the user to pay for it before testing it. Well, no shit!, you are going to say, but that means they have the same problems with any such products: You can't properly test it before buying it.

How do you know the mod works the way you wish it would? What if you later decide it wasn't what you were expecting or not worth buying? What if it conflicts with other mods in your list? And if there are gamebreaking bugs (which might never be patched either)?

There is no refund button, and even if there were, it could be highly abused. Unlike with single games, you might probably take a looot of take just getting your modlist in order, setting them up or whatsoever. And some mods will only take effect in certain circumstances.

Have a look at me. I currently have 230h of gametime in skyrim, not a single one of this was actual gameplay. I never went further than killing the first dragon in vanilla, and that was in a "demo" version right after release. So this gametime isn't even recorded on my steamprofile.

 

And then there is the question of "support"... It's simply not realistic to expect a one-man-modding "team" to provide 24/7 support for their mods, especially with circumstances such as mentioned above.

 

There are simply waaaay to many issues that needs to be resolved first before paid modding has even a chance to become a thing. And given the difficulty to do so, i highly doubt this will happen (anytime soon).

 

 

Thus, I highly recommend to work on a proper donation system first. It is much easier to accomplish, and depending on the circumstances and execution has a chance of becoming even more lucrative for the mod authors (AND users) than a paywall.

 

So this is me just throwing idea out. They're not perfect and I'm not married to them. But I also don't work for Steam so my opinion's not worth a lot.

 

So to answer your questions. 

1. I think the current free version would go away. It'd be replaced with the updated "paid content" version of the mod. If the modder wanted to do something by making an old version of the mod free, that'd be up to him/her. 

Yes, this would mean that anyone could illegally upload a free copy of someone's mods, but I've got no idea how the hell you'd deal with that. I doubt Steam would want to spend the money to get lawyers involved. 

 

2. And there you have one of the massive clusterfucks of an issue that pop up with a paid content system. I have no easy answer for that. 

 

One of the big problems is that we aren't talking about something as simple as a user creating chairs for Sims 3 and selling them on his/her website. Most Fallout, Skyrim & etc mods require actually playing them to see how they work and tell if they're crap or not. If I had to spend $2 on a mod before I ever tried it out, I would never download a single damned one of them. I'd be really picky, and I might buy 1 or 2 that had amazing reviews. But that's it. As you said, there's no refund button and if there was that kind of an option it would be abused to hell with how Bethesda games handle mods. 

 

It's a big problem. 

[Knaeggchen]

Yeah and that's why i don't see any potential in making gameplay-changing or otherwise script-based mods as paid mods. It's nearly impossible to establish a system that would decently adress the issues mentioned above.

Also, I really think that such "core mods" (meaning: mods that many people deem as mandatory or many other mods are heavily dependant on) should be put behind a paywalll as well. Imagine there were like 10 such mods, you absolutely need to use for whatever reason (you simply can't enjoy the game otherwise, important bugfixes, many other mods require it) and each one goes for 2 bucks. That's still 20 bucks just for core mods! And I do not think this number is exaggerated in any way.

 

It's a shame really, given that these mods usually require a hell lot of work as well.

 

 

The only type of mods I can see becoming paid mods are such that adds assets/content without too much conflicting with gameplay or such. I.E. Armor/Weapon mods or quests/new worlds. But then there are still a couple of issues out there...

For skyrim alone, there are countless of different body types. So what are you going to base your armor on? CBBE? UNP? 7B? Or even vanilla? Again, this will lead to problems in compatibility, as you can easily install a CBBE armor on a game that is based on UNP (which doesn't exactly lead to incompatibility, but rather just differences). Sure thing, best way would be to go for a bodyslide version but: 1. this wasn't around in the beginning, 2. with that many sliders and presets there ought to be problems with some. Heck, there are so many people out there that uses bust sizes bigger than a pair of pumpkins.

And then, what about the skeleton? Vanilla/XPMS?  And how should be these armors distributed inside the game? only craftable? which stats? what about leveled lists? -> again, leading to conflicts and incompatibilities.

 

Quest/World type mods, which are like DLCs also come with a bunch of problems. They might be based on a specific mindset or gameplay style, which isn't guaranteed for every user. The Devious Devices mod or any of the slavery mods can easily destroy the compatibility with such mods. Even thought they might not directly modify gameplay or any other core features, but their complexity still opens a lot of possibilities for problems, conflicts and incompatibilities.

 

 

 

At least in skyrim and how it's mod system works right now, I do not see any realistic chance as to how such a system could properly established. It might work on some games/systems, but not on all.

[Mastodon]

You know, for me Fallout 4 is like... Well... Imagine one day recieving a huge box in a fancy wrapper, as a present. Impatiently, you tear off the wrapper, and you open the box, only to discover that it's empty and, in fact, the box was your actual present. "Well, box is useful too", you think to yourself, "It's not like I expected something else in it". And then turns out that the wrapper you tore was also a present.

Edit: Well, and then you grab crayons from the shelf and draw boobs all over the box to distract yourself from all that.

[Love Space]

I would not say FO4 modding is dead, but rather on hold.

trying to mod a game that is being updated constantly can mess up a project. (Racemenu mod has to be updated each time bethesda annouces a update.)

Creation Kit is still beta and and astrocious to make any big project from what I've read.

Even the Author of "ARES" said without the CK being finished, that the race mod wouldn't be a cake walk to do.

When everything is done, I'm sure the modding will be alive.

Unless we want constant retexture mods or some stats editting for guns, I'd say anything big is on hold. Not dead.

[woundwort]

Personally, I have about 3 halfway finished armor mods I am sitting on, because I don't feel like play testing them until CBBE neck seam is fixed. I think there are a lot of motivations, but as many mentioned: the tools for modders and the game updates need to reach a stable maturity point.

[ralfetas]

I said that before, don't know if was in this topic, but whatever....

Bethesda grown, and them their games are not so special anymore, is business, Bethesda.net broke the community in many many ways...

The game itself is not so mod friendly, check ENB for example, Boris cannot make a lot of stuff in ENB because bethesda remove the keys that he use and he don't want to put this keys again because the game updates everytime, and we can talk about HDT etc... but what makes a huge magic in skyrim was ENB.

So... i think fo4 is a good game, but will take time to be a AMAZING game, and i bet that next year bethesda will release a new game, the new IP they said, just hope this new game don't divide our community more.

 

[ralfetas]

Personally, I have about 3 halfway finished armor mods I am sitting on, because I don't feel like play testing them until CBBE neck seam is fixed. I think there are a lot of motivations, but as many mentioned: the tools for modders and the game updates need to reach a stable maturity point.

 

CBBE neck seam is OK depends the texture you use, i don't see any seam on my character.

 

This is a texture problem, not cbbe problem.

 

[Love Space]

I said that before, don't know if was in this topic, but whatever....

Bethesda grown, and them their games are not so special anymore, is business, Bethesda.net broke the community in many many ways...

The game itself is not so mod friendly, check ENB for example, Boris cannot make a lot of stuff in ENB because bethesda remove the keys that he use and he don't want to put this keys again because the game updates everytime, and we can talk about HDT etc... but what makes a huge magic in skyrim was ENB.

So... i think fo4 is a good game, but will take time to be a AMAZING game, and i bet that next year bethesda will release a new game, the new IP they said, just hope this new game don't divide our community more.

Fallout New Orleans? lol

And it just isn't mod friendly because bethesda is not yet done for updates, can we give them a break? the game just camed out and is fresh, not a year yet but the community continues bashes the game. Once everything is done on Bethesda side, modding will be friendly then. But can we wait for atleast the game been out a year to start bashing bethesda?

[ralfetas]

 

I said that before, don't know if was in this topic, but whatever....

Bethesda grown, and them their games are not so special anymore, is business, Bethesda.net broke the community in many many ways...

The game itself is not so mod friendly, check ENB for example, Boris cannot make a lot of stuff in ENB because bethesda remove the keys that he use and he don't want to put this keys again because the game updates everytime, and we can talk about HDT etc... but what makes a huge magic in skyrim was ENB.

So... i think fo4 is a good game, but will take time to be a AMAZING game, and i bet that next year bethesda will release a new game, the new IP they said, just hope this new game don't divide our community more.

Fallout New Orleans? lol

And it just isn't mod friendly because bethesda is not yet done for updates, can we give them a break? the game just camed out and is fresh, not a year yet but the community continues bashes the game. Once everything is done on Bethesda side, modding will be friendly then. But can we wait for atleast the game been out a year to start bashing bethesda?

 

 

Not New Orleans, this is just a rumor, and i don't think is for real, at least not for now, but a new ip.

 

I cannot stop bashing Bethesda... Because nothing works... The site is crap, the bethesda.net is HUGE crap, the game is cool i can say a lot of good stuff about FO4, but they release patch that need patch, they said a LOT of stuff that would be done for FO4, and nothing is done, remember when they said that every update will bring new stuff to the game like they do in skyrim? PS4 mods, this was a really bad joke, they would lissen to the community to see what DLC they would do, most of people say "more mission, no more workshops please" what we get? And them nukaworld, the name emerge for the first time before fo4 was release, this to not mention that beta crap program, that EVERYONE could get the game before any one who buy it.

 

Sorry, FO4 is cool, i like it, would still buy it, will play it for some time, but bethesda... i just cannot see something good in there...

[garg]

Not sure why this thread hasn't been moved to General Discussion but alas Fallout 4 scene almost dead LOL

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18949/?

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16423/?

[Guest]

I would not say FO4 modding is dead, but rather on hold.

trying to mod a game that is being updated constantly can mess up a project. (Racemenu mod has to be updated each time bethesda annouces a update.)

Creation Kit is still beta and and astrocious to make any big project from what I've read.

Even the Author of "ARES" said without the CK being finished, that the race mod wouldn't be a cake walk to do.

When everything is done, I'm sure the modding will be alive.

Unless we want constant retexture mods or some stats editting for guns, I'd say anything big is on hold. Not dead.

 

I think you're right there.

 

I'm certainly waiting for SKSE for fallout 4 to fill in all the programming gaps that we take for granted in Skyrim. I have already tried to build similar mods to the ones I've done for Skyrim and the functions required simply don't exist in Fallout 4 yet and, of course, we do not yet have SexLab style framework to plug into for adult mods.

 

As soon as everything coding wise is up to the same level as Skyrim then I think a lot of people will transition across, I'm certainly chomping at the bit ready to go!

[xdeath]

I think what some are trying to say, is 4 years ago today Skyrims modding scene met and exceeded what was achieved in Fallout: NV, Fallout 3, and Oblivions modding scenes.

Not only has Fallout 4's scene failed to come even close to Skyrims scene, but it can't even compare to New Vegas, F3 or Oblivion's mod scenes.

 

Bethesda is almost entirely to blame for it, too. They delayed the release of the GECK to develop their own shitty mod platform. Their post release support has been less than satisfactory. Probably some other reasons as well...

 

No matter, it will come. It will be late, but it will be here for sure.

[garg]

I think what some are trying to say, is 4 years ago today Skyrims modding scene met and exceeded what was achieved in Fallout: NV, Fallout 3, and Oblivions modding scenes.

Not only has Fallout 4's scene failed to come even close to Skyrims scene, but it can't even compare to New Vegas, F3 or Oblivion's mod scenes.

 

Bethesda is almost entirely to blame for it, too. They delayed the release of the GECK to develop their own shitty mod platform. Their post release support has been less than satisfactory. Probably some other reasons as well...

 

No matter, it will come. It will be late, but it will be here for sure.

 

I think your so wrong! Please try to consider how old Fallout 4 is! Today on Nexus - Skyrim = 49,531 mods, Oblivion = 28,033 mods, FNV = 17,454 mods, Fallout 4 = 14,779 mods.

[RustyXXL]

I am currently and for the forseeable future pretty much inactive mostly for rl reasons. But truth to be told, Modding for FO4 was very frustrting. I had a couple of projects, that never saw the light of day, mainly because I constantly ran in limitations and either had to scrap that Idea completly or find ugly (and often resource-intensive) workarounds or risk incompatibilities, while working on a project which was thought to enhance compatibility. I won't go zo much into details, but one thing it was meant to do was being able to easily add and remove stuff from loot lists at runtime. The Adding stuff was rather easy and worked without problems, and I could easily add my own stuff or stuff from other esps and distribute them in loot lists, but the removing part was rather hard, and very frustrating, because there weren't functions to remove things from these formlists, nor were there any functions to iterate over the lists, only to reset them completly (Which would effectively remove any changes made by other scripts). Just to mention one of the countless limitations I ran into, and which made moddinf FO4 increasingly frustrating and annoying. You would think, that if Bethesda really wanted to promote modding, they could have learned what's needed from Skyrim. Because skse adds these functions that I had needed in Skyrim. So by just looking at what SKSE added in Skyrim and implementiing these functions in FO4, Bethesda could have made things for modders considerably easier.

This is just one example. I ran into a bunch more things, which made things very difficult for me personally, until I ran into a point where I had to spent more and more time finding fixes and workarounds than actually modding. So yeah, for me personally frustration was a major point, why modding did get less and less interesting over time. Maybe my Projects that didn't see the light of day were to ambitious, and maybe I could have been more successfull with smaller goals, but nonetheless I think presenting the modder with as few limitations as somehow possible should be a general goal, if you want to market your game as moddable.

And this is my main point, whereever I talk about recent development with Bethesda games. I don't mean to bash them, because all in all FO4 isn't a bad game. But still there are signs all over the place, that Bethesda got lazy in a lot of places.

 

Lastly I want to chime in a bit in the paid mods discussion. In special about the always mentioned donation system. While I am a fan of offering the possibility of donations, as an incentive for modders they simply don't work in my eyes.

And here are some points why:

1) Donation favour bigger modders over unknown modders, rehardless of the amount of work put into the mods. People will always be more willing to pay modders they know over modders they don't know. While this is just human behavior, and I wouldn't call it bad behavior, as in general this is a way to be able to quickly judge how big the chances are that a product or distributer is trustworthy, it still on the other side can be very frustrating for new modders. While the general disadvantage in this case iss still true in case of paid modding, it still would increase the chances for smaller modders to get some bits of the cake.

2) the current system encourages to update, just for the sake of getting users to redownload your mod, rather than to actually "finish" and perfect your mod. The only way you can remind your users on the nexus to donate, is to push an update. Wether or not it is really needed doesn't really matter. So putting out a perfect mod is actually the last thing you want to do, if you want to get donations. You certainly have to meet some kind of minimum quality, and if you keep pushing updates that do nothing, users will notice over time, but the best thing you can do, is to always keep some things undone, so you have something easy to "fix" in case donations stop. The donation reminder only shows up when a user is re-downloading your mod, and it provides the user with a very easy and convenient way to donate. Without these 2 things only very, very few users would bother to donate at all.

3) While I always am gratefull when a donation found its way to me, the amount you can get from that is so minimal that it doesn't really matter, when talking about incentives. Sure, it's nice to be able to buy a pizza every month or two, but it certainly doesn't move me to do any more work on any mod than I would do otherwise. And this is the overall goal, when we talk about incentives, rihgt? To get the modder to do more than they would do without these incentives.

To be fair, I didn't even try to optimize things in regards to donations, I always treated things as "Oh well, might as well put the donation box up, it doesn't hurt", so figures may vary, but at least these are my highly subjective experiences, that might or might not be interesting.