New move from Bethesda vs mod stealing.

[Eth4rlad]

FO3 and FONV for XB1 that are likely going to have mod support.

 

Doubtfull.

 

[Zor2k13]

I just remembered something I couldn't stand that relates to this whole thing, anyone remember jaysus swords mod? Everyone wanted that mod when it came out and by the time it reached v1.5 it had a lot of content but the description page read like some kind of legal threat if you even downloaded it. After reading the description page I was too pissed off to download it or use it but the author had a bad problem with people selling their stuff on second life and they couldn't get linden labs to smack it all down fast enough or at all sometimes. The whole feeling I got from that mod page made me not even want to msg the author about use of their content in other mods or hey can I do a retexture for your mod blah blah. If you wanted to make anything for that mod you had to leave it intact and make an esp that was dependent on it instead. There were some really nice swords in there too but nah, fuck it was all I ever thought about that mod.

 

There has to be some middle ground for both sides to work with but now that sort of thing is getting harder to find.

[DocClox]

@AJ: Forgive the quotation marks. I'm going to have one last shot at getting this sucker to post before I say "sod it" and give up for the night.

 

"Nexus. I mainly post there."

 

Ah right. I avoid Nexus whenever possible, hence our mutual misunderstanding it seems.

 

"Well, you asked for kudos, not someone that thanks you. A kudo on nexus is a material gesture which implies to click on the profile and *kudo* him, I thought you were referring to that."

 

I was using kudos in the classical sense of "acclaim or praise for exceptional achievement". Not that my work is particularly exceptional, but I was using the term loosely. I didn't know Nexus had co-opted the term for some site-wide reward system.

 

"generally I'd be flattered...Do you have a problem with that?

 

Which is why I asked you, I was feeling that. Me too.However that last sentence sounds pretty much a threat, like on movies, before that people starts beating. :)"

 

Forgive me, but that quote is rather out of context. Can we just remind ourselves of what I actually said without the ellipsis?

 

"I think I'd like to be asked, thank you very much. I don't suppose I'd withhold permission in most cases; generally I'd be flattered. But I think I'd like to be asked.

 

Do you have a problem with that?"

 

Now, where were we? Oh yes...

 

"However that last sentence sounds pretty much a threat"

 

Call it a challenge, if you will. The tenor of your post at the point (misunderstood as it was) seemed to be that I had no right to expect any to ask before using my creations. So I wanted to you to clarify the point. If you had have thought had no such right, then we'd suddenly have had a whole lot more to talk about.

 

I'm glad we avoided that outcome

 

"Which is somewhat my point, and I feel DS' point tooI feel that the issue resides in this, in the distorted view of the "problem".First, let's change the word "work" with "hobby", because summer's coming, weather's hot and that could sound very bad to those that are melting down 12 hours a day on the highways to put the boiling asphalt on them to fill the holes.Then, let's erase all that "names dragges through the mud", it's not much serious unless we're aiming to become youtubers paid to be di*ks."

 

If only we could solve all the worlds problems by using less problematic words to describe them...

 

Thing is, what's not serious to you might well be to those who've spent 18 hours a day sweating in front of a computer trying to understand the CK. Alexander Velicky spent a year or more working full time on Falskaar, mainly I understand so that he'd have something in his portfolio when he applied for a job with a game studio. Do you think he'd have agreed with his efforts not being work? Do you think he'd not have cared if his efforts were brought into disrepute by others uploading his work without permission or care for the consequences? Do you suppose he's the only one who doesn't fit you generalization?

 

I think you're projecting your own attitudes onto the modding community as a whole and trying to label those who don't share then as somehow abnormal. I think we're much more diverse than you give us credit for.

 

"It's not like this is wheat from my sack, I changed my view with time. Who knows what'll happen in the future, maybe in 2 years I'll be the one crying on some corner. But I more expect I'll quit all this drama for good.At start I was completely in that very same wave, all for the "respect"... as happy user, I was thinking "I could not agree, but who am I to judge the modder's will, I respect that". Then with time I realized it wasn't such a great deal. I think one of the main factors that influenced was realizing that there's far too many people that pull the triggers of modding and noone knows them, and still everything works very fine with them ghosts.Screw the respect. More sun and water, like for plants. Or the whole modding scene withers."

 

I still don't see how taking the fruits of someone else's efforts (if you think "work" is unfairly laden with negative connotations) and posting them somewhere where you know the creator did not want them (possibly for very valid reasons, like they just can't work without SKSE) and then publicly mocking said creator for his inability to prevent this action ... I can't see how that profits anyone except a few trolls who get bragging rights on IRC for a day or so.

 

Spin it how you like, I can't see that as anything to encourage, and playing games with semantics doesn't alter it at all.

[DoctaSax]

So you still believe to be in control of the situation, making exclusions, establishing conditions, if necessary... hmmm. It doesn't work that way, I'm sorry to say.

I never was under any illusions that I was in full control of the situation. What control I have is in laying down the rules for my own stuff. Respecting my rules is obviously up to the community. That's a gamble, always has been, whether you go left or right from pure PD.

 

Hmm... The main thing that discouraged me from applying some sort of explicit copyleft is that it seemed like a bit of a dick move in a community where everyone seems to be managing quite nicely without it. It feels like I'm saying "I don't trust you lot, so I'm laying down the law in advance".

If you want to share, there's much to be said for laying down the law in advance. The law defaults to copyright, so by not saying otherwise you stick with "don't touch my stuff". I've handled cases where we all assumed that somebody wouldn't have had a problem with a modification or port of a mod, because we knew him, but he never said so in the mod description, and he wasn't around to confirm. Then you're asked for an opinion on whether it's allowed. Damned if you do because you're open to accusations of allowing mod theft, damned if you don't because you're blocking something new getting created.

 

You'd think that on occasion you can grant a little leeway based on common sense in such cases, but what is common sense nowadays? We've had cases where even a simple compatibility patch between two mods is reported for copyright infringement, or where the use of a resource mod is reported for not securing permissions to actually use it, nevermind that being used is what something calling itself a resource mod is for. Sign o' the times.

[DocClox]

You'd think that on occasion you can grant a little leeway based on common sense in such cases, but what is common sense nowadays? We've had cases where even a simple compatibility patch between two mods is reported for copyright infringement, or where the use of a resource mod is reported for not securing permissions to actually use it, nevermind that being used is what something calling itself a resource mod is for. Sign o' the times.

 

 

I guess my point is that if you want everyone to start using copyleft, it'll probably take some changes to the upload procedure to legitimize it. Otherwise it's just going to look like a few people getting all uppity about how their mods can be used and might well end up being more divisive than it is useful.

 

I'm not disagreeing with what you want to acheive. I'm just not sure that individual modders taking unilateral action is going to do the job.

 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

FO3 and FONV for XB1 that are likely going to have mod support.

 

Doubtfull.

 

 

 

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/skyrim-special-edition-unveiled-for-ps4-xbox-one-and-pc/2016/06/12/145

 

Granted this is only Skyrim, but but there's almost as much vocal support for FO3 and NV on current gen consoles. It smells like money to be made and after harsh experience we all know Bethesda doesn't turn down a chance to make a quick buck. Everything, however, hinges on whether mod support for FO4 even works out. With the uproar over their failure to adequately police mod theft and the consequences of such, the limitations on what consoles can actually run, and their own standards about what will not be hosted on BethNet, the viability is still up in the air. Given how much they've sunk into it, the financial inertia alone will ensure they finish bringing mod support to FO4 and SK Remastered. It's whether or not this will turn into another money sink like ESO, which has consistently failed to attract sufficient paid subscriptions to turn a respectable profit for what went and still goes into it.

 

Frankly, I'm still invoking the metaphor of Bethesda shooting themselves in the foot with a shotgun with FO4. The foot's obliterated, as is the shin and most of the foreleg. Even now, instead of addressing the problems that just keep getting worse, they take halfhearted measures and still act like everything's fine.