toys Shout Like a Virgin Evolved LE

[crococat]

I am playing for more than year with SE port. Dont remember exactly were i had taken it, but works fine.

[TheQueenofTraps]

5 hours ago, crococat said:

I am playing for more than year with SE port. Dont remember exactly were i had taken it, but works fine.

You have my attention.

[MysticDaedra]

I really cannot wait for a port of this to SE! Seems like it would be EPIC as a main LL mod for its own playthrough. Keep us posted!

 

Just an edit: I definitely can recommend the latest version(s) of ZaZ, they work well and have some great animations and furniture. I can also say that Devious Devices is no less stable in SE than it is in LE; most bugs related to devices are usually not the devices themselves, but the mods that use them. I think Sexlab for SE is in so-called "development hell", and will most likely keep that "beta" tag until Black Marsh is released. Don't let this deter you, it is rather robust and rarely breaks. At least in my experience!

 

I'm tempted to re-install LE just to play your mod tho...

[Beef Cheeks]

7 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

I can also say that Devious Devices is no less stable in SE than it is in LE; most bugs related to devices are usually not the devices themselves, but the mods that use them.

Half true in my experience. While you might notice having certain mods crashes it, those mods originally worked in LE just fine, but not in SE. There isn't as much quality control in my experience. Certain things do not function correctly in the SE version.

 

Regardless if it can be worked around and mod authors can find a way to get it working, look at it from a mod author's perspective. There aren't many Devious Devices mods for SE exclusively because they have no point of contact. Devious Devices for LE has a definitive team that can address bugs that mod authors find and can communicate with how something should be handled. The SE port is unofficial and the person who ported it can't do anything to fix any bugs and the original team, afaik, has renounced providing support for it directly.

 

So, even if these bugs people have with the SE version can be circumvented, the amount of devices that VirginMarie uses would prevent her from being interested in allowing any kind of SE support until she has a Devious Devices built by a team that she can have direct contact with to report problems or work out other issues with. That can't happen with the unofficial port as it stands now.

[crococat]

On 11/1/2020 at 7:06 PM, TheQueenofTraps said:

You have my attention.

https://amlgames.com/files/file/300-shout-like-a-virgin-v64-rus-se/

maybe there, dont remember

[TheQueenofTraps]

8 hours ago, crococat said:

https://amlgames.com/files/file/300-shout-like-a-virgin-v64-rus-se/

Suffice it to say, @VirginMarie. It works. And by that, I mean it gets farther than I did.

Cassia was able to talk to me. However, anything after that is still a mystery.

As a language barrier gets in the way of progression.

[VirginMarie]

22 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

I definitely can recommend the latest version(s) of ZaZ

The current release of this mod, includes my removal of ZAP dependency. Was the main last thing I did. This was in part to make SE porting more viable. DD also removed its requirement for ZAP

22 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

Devious Devices is no less stable in SE than it is in LE

Devious Devices LE is currently in Beta. Will be version 5.0, and it will not be easy for me to make this mod compatible with some changes in DD5. It will not make sense to do an official port with anything other than this new DD however. I have no idea if there will be an official DD5 port for SE at all or anytime soon, and no idea about the unofficial one. DD will be my main challenge.

22 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

Sexlab for SE is in so-called "development hell"

I'm not concerned about Sexlab SE, or at least that is my expectation prior to actually testing with it.

 

14 hours ago, XenoDrake said:

So, even if these bugs people have with the SE version can be circumvented, the amount of devices that VirginMarie uses would prevent her from being interested in allowing any kind of SE support until she has a Devious Devices built by a team that she can have direct contact with to report problems or work out other issues with. That can't happen with the unofficial port as it stands now.

Yes moding here on LL has become the wild wild west. I use to be able to rely on the frameworks to be stable, supported, and maintaining backward compatibility. And its even worse with SE.

 

6 hours ago, TheQueenofTraps said:

Suffice it to say, @VirginMarie. It works. And by that, I mean it gets farther than I did.

Cassia was able to talk to me.

To make it work, just on the surface, you can hack it and remove features that are not easily ported. To make it really work it will take hundreds of hours of testing. I don't know which was done for that Russian port, the person has never been in contact with me.

[Beef Cheeks]

13 hours ago, TheQueenofTraps said:

Suffice it to say, @VirginMarie. It works. And by that, I mean it gets farther than I did.

Cassia was able to talk to me. However, anything after that is still a mystery.

As a language barrier gets in the way of progression.

@VirginMarie It's just another shoddy "SSE" port by the looks of the Google translated comments.

 

From someone in the comments: "This mod is made by the author exclusively for the legendary edition, he uses shaders that are completely different in sse. Therefore, knowledge is needed to convert it to cce. And I see no reason to chase new versions, there is nothing special."

 

Also "This is an unofficial port for sse. Some models can be buggy as not all can be optimized for sse."

 

At the very least, they're being honest. I don't like that they just simply converted it to SSE though. It's clearly broken as a lot of people are reporting broken scenes, gear, and scripts. Lol.

 

@TheQueenofTraps It has the same issues that a self-ported SSE version does. A lot of her nif's make use of custom shaders that will take much more intricate conversion than any automated tool will do. If you use the MCM to equip some devices on yourself you'll see it fails to deliver. And a lot of the quests break easily and freeze.

 

It will need a lot of work to get working properly in SSE. Simply starting the game with it may seem like it's working but once you actually try to get into the quest-lines you'll see it just isn't worth having installed until it is properly ported.

 

[TheQueenofTraps]

6 minutes ago, XenoDrake said:

It has the same issues that a self-ported SSE version does. A lot of your nif's make use of custom shaders that will take much more intricate conversion than any automated tool will do. If you use the MCM to equip some devices on yourself you'll see it fails to deliver. And a lot of the quests break easily and freeze.

 

It will need a lot of work to get working properly in SSE. Simply starting the game with it may seem like it's working but once you actually try to get into the quest-lines you'll see it just isn't worth having installed until it is properly ported.

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

To make it work, just on the surface, you can hack it and remove features that are not easily ported. To make it really work it will take hundreds of hours of testing. I don't know which was done for that Russian port, the person has never been in contact with me.

Look, I'm not saying it actually works. All I'm saying is that it got farther than I did, which is actually not saying much in and of itself as I am crap at "full-overhaul" porting. I'm more of a tune-up kind of guy.

Honestly, I just wanted your opinion on the matter.

[Beef Cheeks]

30 minutes ago, TheQueenofTraps said:

Look, I'm not saying it actually works. All I'm saying is that it got farther than I did, which is actually not saying much in and of itself as I am crap at "full-overhaul" porting. I'm more of a tune-up kind of guy.

Honestly, I just wanted your opinion on the matter.

Sorry didn't mean for it to sound like I was attacking you. Just saying that it's about as far as I got with the self-attempt I did half a year ago :P.

[MysticDaedra]

I arrived at my first spit marker, but there is no fire in the pit and no apparent interact, although I do see the quest marker smack dab in the middle of the fire pit. Suggestions?

 

EDIT: Apparently I'm a numbskull. Didn't realize I needed to shout at the spit for it to "activate".

[VirginMarie]

10 hours ago, XenoDrake said:

It will need a lot of work to get working properly in SSE. Simply starting the game with it may seem like it's working but once you actually try to get into the quest-lines you'll see it just isn't worth having installed until it is properly ported.

Yup, and new DD5 needs to be stable before I do.

[VirginMarie]

6 hours ago, MysticDaedra said:

I needed to shout at the spit

What, you've never shouted at a spit before?

[MysticDaedra]

@VirginMarie I've been playing with a conversion I made myself, and thus far most things seem to work pretty well, only a couple quest-related bugs that are fixed with a reload. Just FYI Only thing I can't "fix" for SE I think is the tattoo black skin thing. Really enjoying it!

[VirginMarie]

33 minutes ago, MysticDaedra said:

@VirginMarie I've been playing with a conversion I made myself, and thus far most things seem to work pretty well, only a couple quest-related bugs that are fixed with a reload. Just FYI Only thing I can't "fix" for SE I think is the tattoo black skin thing. Really enjoying it!

How did you deal with things that use NiOverride? Examples are Lively Lungs and Foot Fetish (the amputation)

There will be other texture issues beyond the ass tat.

I don't know what a quest-related bug means, but I suspect you will be seeing quests broken, more so by the frameworks... DD mainly. A reload implies you are just trying the same thing again and due to the randomness of the DD issues, you luck out and the dont happen at the same time again.

[MysticDaedra]

Usually it's something like a quest not properly starting, i.e. the message appears that such-and-such a quest has begun, but it never showed up in the quest log. ShowQuestTargets shows the quest, but 0s on all stages. Reloading a save sets the quest stage properly for some reason.

 

I've yet to get Foot Fetish. Presumably, without NIOverride, you'd simply have things clipping into the ground? I'm assuming it's mostly height related. We have NIOverride in Racemenu now in SE, but it's now part of SKEE.ini. I know you can convert meshes for "high heel" stuff in Outfit Studio, not sure what the other issues are. I'll of course troubleshoot when I come across problems, because I really love the mod and want to keep playing it! 

 

So far zero problems with ZaZ, btw. Missing Komotor's stuff obviously, which is disappointing, but I think that affects the LE version as well. I know there's a bunch of new furniture stuff in the SE version of ZaZ, and I think some other anim packs have started adding furniture meshes as well? I wish I actually had a clue on how to mod, because then I'd really dig in. 

 

No real "issues" with DD yet, btw. All the bodyslides need fixing (they're... off. Presumably because they're for XP32 vs XPMSE). The body piercings clip something fierce, and the nipple items float in front of the torso. I just turned off nipple stuff, no biggie. 

 

What I did to convert was install the LE version in MO, then open the .esp in CK. Edited an item's name, saved, then changed the name back and saved again. Extracted that .esp and put it elsewhere, then reinstalled the mod and copied the updated .esp back in to the mod folder. Easy peasy, took me all of 10 minutes (mostly because the CK is a slow-loading steaming pile lol). Then I used the Havok upgrader to upgrade all the anim and behavior files, pretty easy as well. There's a nifty batch file on the Nexus that helps with this a bit. After that I used NIF Optimizer to optimize all the files for SSE. Some finagling to make sure everything is in the right folder, and then I started playing on a fresh save!

 

I think there's a utility called Cathedral Assets Optimizer or something? And it just automagically converts stuff from LE to SE or something like that? I just did it the old-school way, because that's what I know how to do. And so far so good!

 

If I had a single TL;DR for this whole thing, it would be that I believe there to be less work in "officially" converting to SE than maybe you think there is. I'm totally speaking out my ass on that, and as someone who's never actually modded, I really don't know. But my sketchy hand-made conversion seems to mostly be working, enough that I'm not dealing with distracting bugs and errors, and have been heartily enjoying the mod!

[crococat]

enb2020_9_30_20_27_37.bmp

On 11/4/2020 at 3:56 AM, TheQueenofTraps said:

Suffice it to say, @VirginMarie. It works. And by that, I mean it gets farther than I did.

Cassia was able to talk to me. However, anything after that is still a mystery.

As a language barrier gets in the way of progression.

enb2020_9_30_20_28_02.bmpI had played with it long time and all is working. It is strange becouse of spanking, furniture and similiar scenes are not working right in SE in other mods.

Quote

 

 

enb2020_9_30_20_27_37.bmp

[MysticDaedra]

Enough wall of text above, addressing the lively lungs thing: I play with MME (Milk Mod Economy) and a few other mods that alter breast size for specific things, so I turned that off in the MCM. Even with stable SSE mods, a bunch of different mods trying to change breast size at the same time is a sure chance of a CTD. My recommendation if you seriously look at converting would be to use SLIF, because SLIF is able to control the re-sizing for all mods (that use it) and thus ensures compatibility, or at least prevents conflict. 

 

Foot Fetish... Am I correct in assuming that you're referring to the hoof replacer, plus the slavetats stuff? Oh BTW slavetats is working fine for most stuff. I even "seduced" a dragon, the human transmog had slavetats scales and everything. At least I think it's slavetats? If not... then whatever it is is working fine! lol. For the hooves, I'll probably go in and edit them in Outfit Studio when I finally get that quest/even to trigger. As it is I'm playing a ranged mage character with a tank follower, so not really getting schwacked by anything yet. I'll come back and post my experience with that quest if/when I can get it to trigger. My fingers are crossed!

[MysticDaedra]

I'm going ahead and trying to convert the hooves over right now. Here's an image of how I did it: 

 

 

Haven't tested yet, but this should work. If there are other NIOverride things happening in Foot Fetish that I'm not aware of, I'll tackle them when I get there.

[MysticDaedra]

Spit at Rannveig's Heist doesn't seem to work, I've done the Love shout probably a dozen times now and it won't activate. First one I've had a problem with. Double-checked for conflicts in SSEEdit, didn't see any.

[VirginMarie]

7 minutes ago, MysticDaedra said:

Spit at Rannveig's Heist doesn't seem to work, I've done the Love shout probably a dozen times now and it won't activate. First one I've had a problem with. Double-checked for conflicts in SSEEdit, didn't see any.

Issue will not be the location (which is picked randomly and dynamically by skyrim). Don't know what it could be but has not been ever reported before. You can speak to Nocturnal for a new location. You should see that in the quest description.

[Beef Cheeks]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:41 PM, MysticDaedra said:

I'm going ahead and trying to convert the hooves over right now. Here's an image of how I did it: 

 

Haven't tested yet, but this should work. If there are other NIOverride things happening in Foot Fetish that I'm not aware of, I'll tackle them when I get there.

Not sure if you know this but RaceMenuHH for SSE supports both the LE NiOverride strings and new SE HH_OFFSET strings in the NIF's. You don't need to modify them anymore as long as the NIF's have the LE NiOHH or the new SE string attached. 

From the mod description:

Quote

While this is a slightly faster method than the one available in LE, high heels that were compatible with NiOverride will also automatically work in SE.

 

While using NiOverride was the ideal method in LE and it is available in SE with SKEE, it is recommended in SE to use BodyMorph methods right now as it was improved upon for SE. These actually look more clean and smoother than the NiOverride method did. But it takes some code changes. Or you can use SLIF which has the option to use BodyMorphs by default.

 

I do agree that SLIF is critical to use for compatibility with other mods. The framework was officially ported and you don't need any of the guy's patches as by this point (with a bit of nudging for some authors) most mods support SLIF or have updated patches available here on LL. And SLIF for SE does have BHUNP, CBBE 3BBB, and CBBE SE json lists available for morphs if you look around.

 

 

Ultimately the main hurdles to convert this mod, people can't actually get to without some effort. Some of the ones I can think of are:

 

-Custom shader effects in the equipped devices. These will take some masterful engineering to convert because shaders are handled differently in SSE. No automatic conversion utility will be able to do this, nor can any unskilled modder at that. There is no "guide" to convert these. You have to understand how the originals worked to be able to make them work in the new one. Without this, you may notice a lot of *dark* tinting to some of the devices

-Furniture animations. I'm sorry but I have fully stable load orders and yet whenever I get placed in ZaZ or any ported furniture, things will randomly decide to just not work. The scripts continue to play but the animations will not cooperate, with the player dropping to the ground, etc. While VirginMarie no longer relies on ZaZ, I'm sure some of the basic principles of how the mod worked applies. This will have to be completely stable. Shout Like a Virgin is a staple mod on LL. I'm sure any amount of random possible bugs preventing it from working will not fly.

-Devious Devices. As she has said many times and I agree, Devious Devices on SSE is still highly unstable depending on what mods you have installed. They do not play well with everything. DD on LE boasted unrivaled compatibility with any mod that used it. I find myself constantly running into issues 20 hours into a playthrough where devices all of the sudden decide to permanently not work anymore, save borked. That or when a device is equipped, sometimes it equips and sometimes it just decides to CTD. The framework may be stable for some but be aware this all depends on what else you have in your load order. ENB, script-heavy mods, Devious Devices mods that expect a 4.1 version or a 4.3 version. As well as what hardware you are running. Papyrus Engine is very finicky. A simple difference in processor, faster or not, may actually affect your ability to have a stable skyrim sometimes. I might add that Windows 10 adds a lot of headache and extra crash issues for people, ever since Windows 7 was discontinued. Any wrong mix and things will change for you.

-Quest rework. Lots of quests trigger things that SSE doesn't recognize, I imagine. This is a very complex mod. So you can be on some quest and the game just decides to soft-freeze the quest dialogue, preventing you from continuing.

 

I cannot stress that I have spent a lot of time trying to convert this to SE myself, even digging into the NIF to understand how the shaders work. I have spent the last 2 years stabilizing everything on SSE. I play just fine for 50 hour playthroughs without crashes. This mod is going to take time and effort to convert. No ifs or buts in my experience. End-user converting for a enjoyable experience is impossible. This will take someone familiar with the mod to get everything working correctly for every person.

[VirginMarie]

37 minutes ago, XenoDrake said:

I do agree that SLIF is critical to use for compatibility with other mods. The framework was officially ported and you don't need any of the guy's patches as by this point (with a bit of nudging for some authors) most mods support SLIF or have updated patches available here on LL. And SLIF for SE does have BHUNP, CBBE 3BBB, and CBBE SE json lists available for morphs if you look around.

Lively Lungs is a different beast. It makes your breasts oscillate, like they are animated. It does not change their size. It takes their existing size and just expands and contracts them from there, for the effect. If another mod changes there size, the next time it just starts from that size. So there is no conflict. Secondly, if this were done through SLIF somehow, it would be slow, and lag the living crap out of your game.

 

@MysticDaedraKeep in mind that this mod no longer requires ZAP at all. All that it had used from ZAP previously, was integrated into SLaV. But the are still ZAP assests.

 

I've not been able to read through all your posts yet. May have more to say later, but I'm not going to try and fully support anyone doing a port. Its still very good to hear of your experience and I will pick things up from that.

[MysticDaedra]

Of course, I'd never ask for support for a self-ported mod lol. Unless it's a gameplay thing and I'm dumb xD

 

My hope is that by my experimentation, and perhaps that of some other enterprising folks like me who just cannot wait, we can help clear the way a bit for a future port at some point. In the meantime, I'm pretty satisfied with how it's playing out now. I think SLaV is my new official favorite LL mod! As far as kinks go, impaling is a new one, and quite unique I'd love to see more of that in future updates.

[MysticDaedra]

3 hours ago, XenoDrake said:

Not sure if you know this but RaceMenuHH for SSE supports both the LE NiOverride strings and new SE HH_OFFSET strings in the NIF's. You don't need to modify them anymore as long as the NIF's have the LE NiOHH or the new SE string attached. 

In my experience, LE high heels still clip quite a ways into the ground. The only way I've gotten LE NiOverride heels to actually look right is by applying the HH_OFFSET via outfit studio/nifskope. Oh, or the opposite: they are floating in the air lol. I've found 4.25 offset to be pretty much perfect in most applications. I'm glad to see Expired keeping backwards compatibility in there, definitely above-and-beyond.

 

EDIT: Most LE high heels (afaik) use HDT... that's why it's still often necessary to use the HH_OFFSET function. Forgot about that.

Quote

I cannot stress that I have spent a lot of time trying to convert this to SE myself, even digging into the NIF to understand howw the shaders work. I have spent the last 2 years stabilizing everything on SSE. I play just fine for 50 hour playthroughs without crashes. This mod is going to take time and effort to convert. No ifs or buts in my experience. End-user converting for a enjoyable experience is impossible. This will take someone familiar with the mod to get everything working correctly for every person.

No disagreement there, I just think it is closer to being possible than impossible at this point. There's script stuff that will need editing probably, obviously the NiOverride stuff that isn't HH related will need porting/changing, and probably a ton of other stuff that I don't even know about. But it's heartening (for me) to know that it is possible to do a rough port for myself, and for it to be 90% functional (so far 100% functional, but haven't done everything in the mod yet). 

 

I can't believe this mod isn't more popular lol. It's freaking amazing!