DoctaSax Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Non-modders who don't like the game telling modders who do like it not to mod it or it's their fault that Beth releases games they don't happen to like but still buy. Yeah, that makes sense.
prinyo Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 P.S. Don't take this too seriously, but I really, really hope for TES VI to have a voiced protagonist, with the choice to pick between several voices, silent protagonist included. And the dialogue to have multiple, ACTUAL choices in real time, more than 4, navigable with the bumpers of the controller or the wheel of the mouse. Voiced player character is bad for any moddable game. It is not a question of taste or preferences. It is an objective fact. I guess Bethesda weighted the short term benefits against the long term damages and decided it is worth spending the money, time and effort to do it. Only time will tell if they were correct. Almost none of the big and popular mods for Skyrim that include any dialogue would have existed today if the protagonist in Skyrim was voiced. You need to take into account the time and effort it takes to create a mod. Many authors when starting such a project try to insure that their mods will blend as good as possible within the game and the in-game world. Are you going to start a project that will take months and months of work to accomplish knowing that it will never be more than a "patch" in the game and it can never be done correctly? There is the argument that mods can use phrases from the vanilla game that already have recorded audio "because there not too many ways you can say 'I'm going to kill those raiders' anyway". Well, if your expectations about the future quest mods are for them to be yet more "fetch and kill-them-all" quests that the game is full of as it is, then that's a valid point. But this is not going to help create mods that can keep FO4 in the list of the most played games even 4 years later (as Skyrim is). To make things worse the hardcoded 4 options dialogue requirement means that the mod author needs to provide always exactly 4 options for the player character to say. Even if you start searching all recorded phrases for each and every dialogue node you need to have 4 of them. Even if there are hero modders that will embark on such mod-cration adventure, the simple fact of the voiced protagonist and the 4 options dialogue will add probably around 1/3 of the time needed to make a bigger mod. And will limit severely the creativity of the modder. It is not a personal preference. For me personally - I enjoy it in the first playthru and plan to add a mod that supresses it in the future. So as a player I'm quite happy with it, but as a person with ideas about future mods - it is a huge, extremely serious problem.
bjornk Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 "Bethesda makes great games!" *can't play the game without a huge unofficial patch* *uses DLLs to fix things the official patch broke* Yeah, that makes sense...
DoctaSax Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Nobody's forcing you to like the game. Blaming modders for improving it is just completely over the line.
bjornk Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Who's blamed modders? Non-modders Trivial, but mods nonetheless, which fix/improve things.http://www.loverslab.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&search_app=downloads&mid=102569&userMode=all&sid=8e91d4ec4b78972b54e20acf31777e79A few more on Nexus.
krighaur Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Non-modders who don't like the game telling modders who do like it not to mod it or it's their fault that Beth releases games they don't happen to like but still buy. Yeah, that makes sense. +1 Nowadays when people don't like something, they want that everybody don't like it.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 @camyok Incorrect. I don't have sympathy for anyone who's going to go through hell trying to fix the dialogue and removing the voiced protagonist to make the game feel a bit more of an RPG, I think it's a waste of time because there is a lot that needs to be done to polish the game to make it seamless to the point of not breaking immersion. If they continue with this feature it's just incredibly a lot more work on the modder. And frankly I don't see the point in putting all that time and effort into not just making the dialogue play out how you want, but hire voice actors. The modder may have the voice actors say what he/she wants in their mod, but the player will always stay stuck with 4 bland/dull choices. And it will never help having to have a voice one would probably never like because it just doesn't fit the character they have made. Why don't you ask Fore how much fun he had with FNIS? And then ask him why he isn't making a FNIS for Fallout 4. My point is as I've already stated is, they are making unnecessary changes and these changes are making it much harder not only for the player but for modders to overcome. One can be all positive minded all they want and tackle these issues. Great! Good for them and the community that supports Fallout 4, but it's too much stress. I feel people are just going to give up and toss the white flag because it's going to have to work seamlessly. And to top that off, quests mods have become less popular over follower and preset mods. I don't think a modder who makes a quest mod is going to feel very satisfied at the end after putting all the work they did to make it all work out and get little recognition for it because the sexah ladiez are trampling over these mods. It's already happened and continues to happen on Skyrim.
Guest Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 P.S. Don't take this too seriously, but I really, really hope for TES VI to have a voiced protagonist, with the choice to pick between several voices, silent protagonist included. And the dialogue to have multiple, ACTUAL choices in real time, more than 4, navigable with the bumpers of the controller or the wheel of the mouse. Same here. I always found silent protagonists to be a bit grating since everyone but the PC has a voice. Furthermore, I believe that a lack of voiced dialogue makes conversations and other interactions seem less engaging, particularly in an emotional situation. However, with regards to silent protagonists, I would like to see a CRPG made where our character is actually a mute and can only respond via gestures and other actions. It is much preferable than "using one's imagination" to pretend the PC has voice.
Kendo 2 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 I mod and all humility aside I'm probably one of the best mesh riggers and 3d modelers on this site. I'm not modding FO4 nor will I allow anything I've ever made to be used with that game. Why not mod for Fallout 4? #1. The game's licensing. A major part of my RL job is authoring licenses and contracts for the oil and gas industry. I know how to read a license, how to write an iron-clad one and the laws governing licensing. The FO4 EULA clearly states Bethesda owns any content made with their software and anything they define as Customized Game Materials. In other words, if you make something work with FO4, Bethesda owns it. There is a huge misconception the Bethesda.net TOS/EULA for the Creation Kit supersedes the game's EULA. That isn't how the law works. If a company or corporattion issues two conflicting licenses the one that adversely affects the licensor (in this case Zenimax/Bethesda) is ignored. Either that or the judgement sides with the license authored first (in this case the FO4 game EULA). The Bethesda.net TOS/EULA is for a game forum like LL or Nexus; it doesn't govern the software itself. I know there are people here and elsewhere who will think what I'm saying isn't true; that modders own their FO4 content. Yeah, no you don't. That's why FO4 modding is being dominated by Skyrim jokers and long-term 3d/texture artists are staying away. Artists who make original content aren't willing to surrender their instance of creation rights to a corporation. #2. The piss-poor quality of the game. They used an engine that was obsolete in 2008 when they released FO3. The NPC and enemy AI is a joke. The game is a poorly optimized graphical nightmare. Not to mention Bethesda nickle-and-diming with their DCLs that contain content that should have been in the vanilla game to start with. 'Mods will fix it'. Uhuh. Another reason not to mod FO4 is the fan base itself, but I'm not going down that rabbit hole. Mainly because I don't care. One thing that does bother me is my legitimate gripes about the game being dismissed. Clueless fanboys love the game and they will justify all of the short-comings to the death. Jolly-good for them. That doesn't give them a permit to attack and try to correct the people who bought the game and didn't like it. Mod for people like that? Yeah, not a fucking chance. One day I probably will return to FO4 and mod it if a real body mod is made. I won't be publicly sharing anything I make; Bethesda thinks they own it and the current fan base doesn't deserve it.
bjornk Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Another reason not to mod FO4 is the fan base itselfThat alone is a good enough reason actually.
DoctaSax Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 The reverse of the medal is obviously being called stupid and clueless for liking a particular game, which is not an attack at all.
bjornk Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 The reverse of the medal is obviously being called stupid and clueless for liking a particular game, which is not an attack at all. Not for "liking a particular game", but for not acknowledging the issues with it. One thing that does bother me is my legitimate gripes about the game being dismissed. Clueless fanboys love the game and they will justify all of the short-comings to the death.
Kendo 2 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Someone blindly defends a lackluster game. They ignore the obvious flaws, justify and make excuses at every turn and attack anyone who doesn't agree with them. If that isn't the definition of 'Clueless Fanboy' then nothing is. It happens on every game forum and being intentionally obtuse isn't a virtue. Nor is it much a motivator to get people involved in FO4 modding. If anything it is hindering the process and making people disinclined to participate. And I haven't called anyone 'stupid' for liking FO4 since I can be called 'stupid' for not liking it. I'm only dealing in facts here and the only opinion I voiced is the current FO4 fan base not being worthy of my efforts. THAT is my opinion and valid only for ME. I have more than earned my stripes for modding Bethesda games and if I think FO4 and the atmosphere around it sucks big green rhino then they do as far as I'm concerned. That's why I'm not modding it. And I suddenly remembered why I no longer post on LL. LATER.
SexDwarf2250 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Pray that TES6 doesn't follow the same path. I have shat upon your game. Pray I do not shat upon it further.
DoctaSax Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 "Clueless fanboys" "blindly defending" (read: stupid) a game which is supposedly "objectively" or "factually" bad... seems to me there is indeed some undue attacking and correcting taking place, and I can't say it's the fanboys doing it, not on these forums.
bjornk Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Why do you get agitated by every anti-FO4 post anyway? Why do you take everything people say about the game "personally"? Is that because you're a self-proclaimed FO4 fanboy?
Kendo 2 Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 Why do you get agitated by every anti-FO4 post anyway? Why do you take everything people say about the game "personally"? Is that because you're a self-proclaimed FO4 fanboy? Well, it was implied that since you're not a modder your opinion in this thread wasn't valid since you don't worship FO4 and you're not modding it. So I came in as a modder and stated my own reasons precisely for not liking the game and not modding for it; but evidently that wasn't good enough since I don't worship FO4 either. So it's basically just like I said here and here, but whatever. There's no way to argue against fanaticism. Also odd that 'it doesn't happen here' as far as FO4 fanboys going on the offensive is a narrative when I know I've experienced here and others have too. That little snip-it earns another big WHATEVER as well. But that's how thing roll here now. I guess I could start naming names and pulling quotes but what's the point? I've said my piece about modding FO4 and where I stand. *shrugs and walks off*
prinyo Posted May 20, 2016 Posted May 20, 2016 For God's sake this is the Skyrim forum... Was it really necessary to open a new front of the "FO4 fan-hate" war here? What did the Skyrim fans do to deserve this? The OP was quite simple - a question to the Skyrim modders about FO4. It was enough to say "I think FO4 is a bad game so I'm not going to mod it". Instead the FO4 war reached it's ugliest peaks here... Regardless what you think about FO4 and the people who play/like it, it is not that hard to show some respect to Skyrim and it's fans and to keep the FO4 war within the FO4 forums...
zax Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Its mostly about non-Fantasy setting. F4 will be as niche, when it comes to modding, as was F3 and NV. The next big modding game will be obviously TESVI, but its still many years away since they don't want to rival TESO.
DoctaSax Posted May 21, 2016 Posted May 21, 2016 Why do you get agitated by every anti-FO4 post anyway? Why do you take everything people say about the game "personally"? Is that because you're a self-proclaimed FO4 fanboy? If you go around complaining how the 'fanboys' have the gall not to acknowledge how wrong they are, then you shouldn't be surprised it's taken personally. There's no right and wrong about liking a game or not. Some bits could be better, but I like it fine, sorry to commit such a thought crime. Well, it was implied that since you're not a modder your opinion in this thread wasn't valid since you don't worship FO4 and you're not modding it. It was stated that it was over the line to imply that Beth is enabled in its supposed shoddy practices by the fact that modders do what they do. Nobody expects anybody to worship anything or do anything. I added that if you're gonna complain about always being attacked, you oughta stop doing it yourself. Not too much to ask. As to keeping score, I see a lot more instances of perfectly good threads about modding the game being derailed by the haters than by the fanboys. One minute you're discussing the geck or the eula or getting anims to work, the next somebody barges in literally screaming for the heads of the Beth execs. Ofc, I see more of that than most, because we get rid of some of that, just to give the modding threads room to breathe. (No doubt earning us some flak about censorship too, what else is new.) Either way, since everybody's storming off with a big "whatever" and the umpteenth complaint about how the place is going to the dogs, I'll just shut up too and close this, shall I? Wouldn't want to ruin expectations.
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