Deviously Helpless Patched v1.17a 20160329

[Slorm]

Is this mod compatible with SL Defeat?

 

I still use the older version of Defeat (v5b3.3fixed) and DH works fine. I can't see any reason it wouldn't work with the later versions though.

 

[c6222848]

which part of the script or esp is controlling the effect of the cloakspell on the player? i want to add the naked condition to trigger the effect besides the devices, but it doesn't works, i tried to add it on Isplayerwearingdevices and allowadding but nothing happens ingame while naked..

can you help me a bit?

[Slorm]

I'm not sure without a lot of digging around. Srende made DH not me, I just try to keep it maintained in a usable form.

 

But from memory the two scripts you might want to look at are WD_DeviantCloak and WD_Util (good luck with that one it's pretty large).

 

In CK load up DH and filter on WD_ I know there are some spell effects for the Cloak which is probably has the conditions on but you'll need to dig around. RL is rather busy atm but if I get a moment this weekend I'll try and have a look, but hopefully this should give you an idea where to look

[c6222848]

I'm not sure without a lot of digging around. Srende made DH not me, I just try to keep it maintained in a usable form.

 

But from memory the two scripts you might want to look at are WD_DeviantCloak and WD_Util (good luck with that one it's pretty large).

 

In CK load up DH and filter on WD_ I know there are some spell effects for the Cloak which is probably has the conditions on but you'll need to dig around. RL is rather busy atm but if I get a moment this weekend I'll try and have a look, but hopefully this should give you an idea where to look

i found nothing in util and i think that deviantcloak is the cloakapplyeffect, but i will take a look at the mod in CK, since i was using TesVEdit the whole time

 

Thanks for help!

[Violence6884]

Hello.

In light of these issues possibly being caused by more than one mod or by a combination of mods, and taking into consideration that a lot of players would like to be able to run those mods simultaneously(I know I do, it only makes sense), I will copy and paste these issues in each mod's respective discussion. I can only hope it might kindle creative discussion, especially among those mods' authors.

These issues persist even with a clean new game and minimal mods(Devious stuff, Defeat, DA ETC) installed, even through Save cleaning. Needless to say I do run FNIS properly and my load order seems fine. And I do have everything these mods require, installed correctly.

 

I feel they are more than nuisances I can mentally block out as they affect game play and need to be looked into before any of those mods' authors goes ahead and releases a new version.

 

So bear with me a little. Here;

 

- Camera randomly refuses to zoom in or our or go into 1st person(This is with Immersive 1st person installed). Requires a load to fix. I am not sure which mod is causing this but I've seen this in Defeat's scenes, in SD+ scenes, practically any mods that trigger sex scenes can cause this. It could be IFP causing it too, though it never does this when I install it on its own.

 

- On Simple Slavery, once I awake in front of my new master after I'm sold, I can't move at all. To turn the character I can face in the direction I want, go into combat® and then out of combat and I'll be facing in that direction. That is the most I can do in terms of movement. No sneak, no jump. Nothing. However after talking with SS's author I was advised to inform SkyrimLL, so here it is.

 

- There seems to be no way around the random walking animation loop that I get locked into sometimes, after being enslaved(Character will wear the collar and rags but after that I get into said loop), seems to be in the direction my character is facing after getting rag dolled, before the screen goes black.

 

- On this clean new game, wolves decided they will not attack me any more. More animals or monsters may be affected but I am not sure, as said it's a new game and I haven't gone far nor do I intend to. Just went as far as the 1st small town to test things.

 

- I am not sure which mod is triggering it, but every single animal I approach(Friendly or not) brings up the "Submit/Resist" dialogue if it can. I've tried disabling DEnslavement, Captures, ETC but this persists. I've even tried to lower enslavement chances across the MCM. In general changes in the MCM don't seem to affect this. By far the most game breaking issue so far, as it is unavoidable; The problem of not having an option to literally resist an NPC enslaving a player in the first place(Remember there is no combat to justify the contrary) is quite prominent. DeviousEnslave suggests that we keep weapons and armour equipped - Tried that, no difference. I even tried approaching NPCs that behave thus while I'm in combat mode. Also no change. Out of curiosity I tried holding block down, no difference either. This was not happening before at all, not sure what triggered it with this new game and clean Save.

 

- I've noticed there is no limit to enslavement attempts, Simple Slavery sales ETC. So in short a lot of the mods don't take into account what each is doing, causing multiple instances of the same event, which as you understand causes various problems like double dialogues and so on. The same is true with devices, some mods that support them decide to install multiple instances of the same device causing problems(Sometimes I will get a dialogue telling me I can't have more than 1 of X device, so at least one of the mods is actually working fine). This becomes a huge issue when more than 2 actors are involved in a scene(And that's not rare really).

 

- Sometimes the actors involved in a sex scene will be far from each other, yet the animation will start, resulting in those actors humping air X meters away from each other, a problem that can't be fixed by relocating the actors or attempting to align them(For instance through Defeat's macro). This is not caused by Defeat alone, it happens during sex scenes triggered by all mods I have installed and which do trigger sex.

 

Do note that I've literally left all options(Except things I needed to click like registering SexLabs animations in ZaZ animations' MCM) as they are, all default. Haven't touched a thing.

 

In any case, thanks for reading.

[Slorm]

- Camera randomly refuses to zoom in or our or go into 1st person(This is with Immersive 1st person installed). Requires a load to fix. I am not sure which mod is causing this but I've seen this in Defeat's scenes, in SD+ scenes, practically any mods that trigger sex scenes can cause this. It could be IFP causing it too, though it never does this when I install it on its own.

 

 

I can't see any effect from DH in your post, though there are some of those mods I don't use (e.g. SD+) but I'm sure someone would have reported a problem before now.

 

On the camera bug bug above I may be able to offer a suggestion though as I've never used IFP this may not be of help. The cemara bug happens when one animation gets interrupted by another and basically you can no longer zoom the camera. There are two ways round this:

 

1/ The crappy way - load an earlier save

2/ A much better way - make your way to the nearest workbench/forge/cooking pot (anything that brings up one of those type of screen), go into it then come out and your zoom should be working again

 

One word of warning if you have the estrus for skyrim esp active you will get serious camera problems as well, fix for that is go into sneak mode and use one of the estrus shouts. Better not to use it at all though unless you want endless papyrus spam and bugged out saves, just remove it entirely or keep it inactive for EC+

 

[Violence6884]

 

I can't see any effect from DH in your post

 

Thanks for taking a look Isolating which mod causes what is quite important at this point for me. Do know that I'm not blaming people or being condescending, I appreciate everyone's work quite a lot.

 

As you may recall, per your suggestion I'm using a modified Estrus, there's no relative ESP in my load order.

 

I'll try what you suggest about the camera glitch. Ty.

[Violence6884]

Seems like there's an issue with NPCs following me around all the time. It was suggested that I stop and wait which I did, it sent them away(For instance the smith in Riverwood returns to his shop) for a little bit but then they quickly track me back. Problem seems to persist regardless of dialogue options(For instance if I reply negatively to any dialogue they initiate), if that helps.

[Slorm]

Hmm, I've not seen that happen before and not had any other reports of it.

 

The following around issue afaik only occurs after finishing a hostile encounter (bandits etc) where there is a delay before the hostiles return to their sandboxed routine. DH doesn't fire for neutrals or friendlies whether the pc is wearing devices or not, so I can't see what would cause this.

 

For hostiles the effect was in the older version of DH but would clear after four or five seconds whereas it seems to take a bit longer since SL1.6+ for the sandboxing to kick in. When SL1.63 is released I'll revisit this one and see if I can reduce the time for the sandboxing to kick back in.

 

 

[Violence6884]

I should have been more clear; It does only occur after finishing a hostile encounter. It definitely doesn't go away after seconds, nor minutes. I'll test again and let it run for 10', see what happens.

[Slorm]

You do need to stand still, move stand still a couple of time (that used to happen in the old version but would clear  more quickly). I'll have another look when I get a moment, I tested here the other week with SL1.62 both at Fort Greymoor and Broken Tower Redoubt and it seemed okay.

 

I don't quite follow how Alvor the Blacksmith (Riverwood) was following you though, how had be become a hostile

[bicobus]

People abusing my character through helpless are definitively following me around.

 

I'm not sure the NPC present in wolfclub are supposed to rape the player on sight, but from my first trial that is what happens. I'll need to test a bit more with helpless disabled to see if anything changes, but that won't be soon.

[Slorm]

People abusing my character through helpless are definitively following me around.

 

I'm not sure the NPC present in wolfclub are supposed to rape the player on sight, but from my first trial that is what happens. I'll need to test a bit more with helpless disabled to see if anything changes, but that won't be soon.

 

I've never used Wolfclub, but if the NPC's are standard vanilla and technically hostile (It's at Cragslane isn't it so they probably are?) then DH would fire if the pc is fitted with a devious device.

 

I'm trying to avoid doing any further work on this until SL1.63 is out as they'll be an updated papyrusutils, it was the changes between v28 and v32 that first brought some of these issues up so if there's further changes to come there's not too much point correcting now and then having to do it again.

 

[bicobus]

Yep, Cragslane. However I believe that the player is put in BanditAllyFaction to make them friendly. I barely touched that mod, so I'm not well informed.

[Violence6884]

About Alvor in particular I don't remember what exactly triggered him. I seem to remember initially submitting to someone or something around town then escaping that enslavement by killing that NPC and heading into town. I think it was there that Alvor approached me with the typical "Look! A free fuck slave!" ETC ETC. However with the amount of loading and saving I've been doing to check things out with all the mods I run, I can't be sure how it happened.

If Helpless normally doesn't touch quest NPCs or friendly NPCs, maybe another mod* temporarily switched something about Alvor based on some state my character was in, thereby triggering Helpless with Alvor? Something like that could potentially explain why Helpless would then get mixed up and not being able to send Alvor away for good.

Anyway those are just speculations of someone who has no idea how Helpless works(Or any of the other mentioned mods) under the hood so I could be horribly wrong

 

* I'm usually running SD+, Helpless, Enslaved and Captures together.

[Slorm]

@Violence6884

 

Yes that sounds like something else, the only dialogue from DH is "Lookee here boys etc...) which Bandits use, and it wouldn't trigger on Alvor at all.

 

@Bicobus

 

Easiest way for now would be to turn off attacks in the DH MCM. I wouldn't want to fiddle about with what works correctly in a vanilla game in any case. Alternately the author of Wolfclub could just issue the standard api call to suspend DH and other mods while Wolfclub is playing out.

 

[bicobus]

Yeah, I'm not sure if pchs will update wolfclub anytime in the future though. If it only requires to edit some script and write an api call at the proper place, I believe I can do that. However if it requires me to open the CK and edit/save an esp, then it's beyond me. I cannot understand how the CK works, my brain is not wired for those tools.

[Verstort]

Seems like there's an issue with NPCs following me around all the time. It was suggested that I stop and wait which I did, it sent them away(For instance the smith in Riverwood returns to his shop) for a little bit but then they quickly track me back. Problem seems to persist regardless of dialogue options(For instance if I reply negatively to any dialogue they initiate), if that helps.

 

I should have been more clear; It does only occur after finishing a hostile encounter. It definitely doesn't go away after seconds, nor minutes. I'll test again and let it run for 10', see what happens.

 

About Alvor in particular I don't remember what exactly triggered him. I seem to remember initially submitting to someone or something around town then escaping that enslavement by killing that NPC and heading into town. I think it was there that Alvor approached me with the typical "Look! A free fuck slave!" ETC ETC. However with the amount of loading and saving I've been doing to check things out with all the mods I run, I can't be sure how it happened.

 

If Helpless normally doesn't touch quest NPCs or friendly NPCs, maybe another mod* temporarily switched something about Alvor based on some state my character was in, thereby triggering Helpless with Alvor? Something like that could potentially explain why Helpless would then get mixed up and not being able to send Alvor away for good.

 

Anyway those are just speculations of someone who has no idea how Helpless works(Or any of the other mentioned mods) under the hood so I could be horribly wrong

 

* I'm usually running SD+, Helpless, Enslaved and Captures together.

 

Sounds like Deviously enslaved to me.

 

You can turn DEC off temporarily from the menu, if you're busy with some vanilla quest or a mod that I haven't detected yet. DEC should detect most DD/sexlab based quests and keep itself from interrupting, but it's the nature of the mod that it will unintentionally get in the way of important stuff that I haven't told it to avoid yet.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure if pchs will update wolfclub anytime in the future though. If it only requires to edit some script and write an api call at the proper place, I believe I can do that. However if it requires me to open the CK and edit/save an esp, then it's beyond me. I cannot understand how the CK works, my brain is not wired for those tools.

 

Only a slight learning curve. Open CK (through MO if you have it), then select the file you wish to edit and set it as active in the File ->"Data..." selection. You can normally ignore warnings it throws at you when you open a mod, "yes to all". Open the object view and you'll be able to see every quest/actor/object in the mod, most dialogue is tied to a quest, most scripts are tied to a quest or dialogue or maybe a scene. Just double click on the object you want and most of the editable parts will be available for editing.

 

If you're having trouble finding the location of where everything is, might be easier to open the mod in TESVEdit and browse though the parts from there. Creation kit loads all dependencies of the mod you'll make, so it'll load all skyrim assets too, which makes it harder to find elements specific to the mod if they aren't sorted with Hungarian prefix, TESVEdit keeps them separate. Also offers some searching and connection information between elements, so you can see where dialogue connects and which quests use what elements to a minor extent.

[Punga]

We need updates.

[Violence6884]

 

 

Sounds like Deviously enslaved to me.

 

You can turn DEC off temporarily from the menu, if you're busy with some vanilla quest or a mod that I haven't detected yet.

Ahhh I see. Thanks for clarifying that. Do you plan to address that perhaps? Because I wasn't really questing, just playing around with the various adult mods I have installed(Unlike earlier, I now keep a separate save for serious gaming, with adult mods all turned off). So what it was interrupting, was likely other similar mods from the ones I mentioned in my post.

[Verstort]

Sounds like Deviously enslaved to me.

 

You can turn DEC off temporarily from the menu, if you're busy with some vanilla quest or a mod that I haven't detected yet.

Ahhh I see. Thanks for clarifying that. Do you plan to address that perhaps? Because I wasn't really questing, just playing around with the various adult mods I have installed(Unlike earlier, I now keep a separate save for serious gaming, with adult mods all turned off).

 

So what it was interrupting, was likely other similar mods from the ones I mentioned in my post.

 

It should detect other DD/ZAP mods and some other popular mods already, what is it interrupting?

 

I need to hard code most use cases that aren't already caught, so I need to know exactly what mod it's interrupting.

 

You'll still get approached with SD+ because enough users prefer it, and I figured you can just turn DEC off for the duration of an enslavement if you didn't want it. I haven't played with helpless or captures in a long time, but I assume DH still uses the DHLP system which DEC detects and avoids, so it shouldn't be interfering with DH at least.

 

Probably best to move this conversation to the DEC support thread, since this thread is for DHP support.

[Violence6884]

 

It should detect other DD/ZAP mods and some other popular mods already, what is it interrupting?

 

I need to hard code most use cases that aren't already caught, so I need to know exactly what mod it's interrupting.

 

You'll still get approached with SD+ because enough users prefer it, and I figured you can just turn DEC off for the duration of an enslavement if you didn't want it. I haven't played with helpless or captures in a long time, but I assume DH still uses the DHLP system which DEC detects and avoids, so it shouldn't be interfering with DH at least.

 

Probably best to move this conversation to the DEC support thread, since this thread is for DHP support.

 

Having discussed the special case of Alvor, what normally gets interrupted is likely SD+. As an example if I head to Redoran's Retreat and become enslaved by a bandit there, soon after the rest of the bandits will start harassing me the way I describe. So, yeah... Likely SD+ as said. Perhaps worthy of note is that in the same cave there are several bandit NPCs from SD Cages which also harass me if memory doesn't fail me. Speaking of Cages, my forced trip to the local cage will also be interrupted the same way, causing some glitches.

 

I've already turned DEC off for now, along with other mods. Only left SD+ running until I can figure things out with all the help I've been getting from you lot. Thanks by the way.

 

No problem with what's irrelevant to DHP getting moved to the appropriate place, if a moderator cares to do the sorting. I'm replying here again just for the sake of having all info on possibly interconnected issues in the same place. Apologies if it's causing confusion, it's not my intention.

[Punga]

We need an update. 

[galgat]

  Good job on this, I have always like Deviously Helpless, and find it for the most part preferable to deviously Captured, although I like them both. 

 

This one does not force me to be robbed, or item placements after each NPC's turn. It just does, or does not install DDI item's, and they are all generic DDI item's so they are easy to remove, or for the most part I find them easy to be free of, once I am through roll playing.

 

   Anyway thank you for spending some time shoring up Srende's Mod.

[SiegfreidZ]

I'm having an issue where I get caught even if I have a weapon out and in the middle of attacking. I've tried switching the mod between having weapon equipped and weapon out, and tried between holding spells and actual weapons. In either case, as soon as I get with grabbing range, I get grabbed, even to the point of cutting me off in mid-attack. Solution?

 

EDIT: I just tested it with having attacks turned off completely, and I still get grabbed >.<.