Anbeegod Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Gunners is the F3 Talon Company type of faction. Raiders with better equipment. If there's a Gunner faction, raider faction is totally unnecessary, vice versa.
Roggvir Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 But i am being dead serious! ...or at least i was when i started writing it Really, i would very much like to play the game this way, or in a simmilar way where i wouldn't have to kill absolutely every single "bad guy" i stumble upon. I find it very distracting and immersion breaking that EVERYONE just wants to fight - like if noone values a life (even if only their own!). I want to be able to aproach raiders, show them i don't mean any harm, maybe leave my companion(s!) little behind to cover me if things take the wrong turn, and try to do business with them - and yes, take the RISK of them attacking anyway if i somehow present myself as an easy target. Maybe it can be based on level and/or perks i have, reputation/renown, vs. how much randomly desperate they might be in that moment: - if i am a seasoned commando, they will try to be civil, because even if they'd kill me, it would be costly. - if i am a wimp that just got out of the vault, let them laugh while pissing on my dead corpse! - if the stuff i carry is too tempting, let them attack regardless of consequences (after initially letting me get close "to see what i have"). I want the possibility of aproaching mutants to sell them some juicy human flesh that came from those morons who tried to extort a "bridge toll" from me. Yes, its disgusting, but thats the wasteland for you! Maybe i can even gain enough trust and renown over time so i can freely walk into the mutant camp without them trying to kill me (Oooh! this hummie brings good meat, let him pass!). It should be risky, or somewhat difficult, maybe having Strong as a companion would be a mandatory requirement. I want to be able to choose NOT to help every single useless moron in the game, and still get some gameplay. Vanilla game is like "So, whatcha wanna do boss? ...aha? ...really? did you just say NO? ..oh, you did? ...haha! you almost had me there! I KNOW YOU MEANT YES". And yep, even playing as a raider, running my own raider group as opposed to running dozens of annoying settlements. Why should i have to behave like a saint sent only to help and save the world? I am sick of that. I am a good person in real life, everyone likes me (sometimes even ppl who i dont like), i often help wherever i can, i am a good natured, peace loving moron, so FUCKING GIVE ME A BREAK AT LEAST WHILE PLAYING A GAME! ;-D I wouldn't neccessarilly need to do all those things all the time to enjoy the game - often just knowing that you could, can make a huge difference. I just want some shades of gray (do not confuse with that stupid movie or book Anyway, i am definitely going to try and mod some of these things once the CK is out, that you can count on.
Guest Comrade DR. MAHUJ DIK Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 But i am being dead serious! ...or at least i was when i started writing it Really, i would very much like to play the game this way, or in a simmilar way where i wouldn't have to kill absolutely every single "bad guy" i stumble upon. I find it very distracting and immersion breaking that EVERYONE just wants to fight - like if noone values a life (even if only their own!). I want to be able to aproach raiders, show them i don't mean any harm, maybe leave my companion(s!) little behind to cover me if things take the wrong turn, and try to do business with them - and yes, take the RISK of them attacking anyway if i somehow present myself as an easy target. Maybe it can be based on level and/or perks i have, reputation/renown, vs. how much randomly desperate they might be in that moment: - if i am a seasoned commando, they will try to be civil, because even if they'd kill me, it would be costly. - if i am a wimp that just got out of the vault, let them laugh while pissing on my dead corpse! - if the stuff i carry is too tempting, let them attack regardless of consequences (after initially letting me get close "to see what i have"). I want the possibility of aproaching mutants to sell them some juicy human flesh that came from those morons who tried to extort a "bridge toll" from me. Yes, its disgusting, but thats the wasteland for you! Maybe i can even gain enough trust and renown over time so i can freely walk into the mutant camp without them trying to kill me (Oooh! this hummie brings good meat, let him pass!). It should be risky, or somewhat difficult, maybe having Strong as a companion would be a mandatory requirement. I want to be able to choose NOT to help every single useless moron in the game, and still get some gameplay. Vanilla game is like "So, whatcha wanna do boss? ...aha? ...really? did you just say NO? ..oh, you did? ...haha! you almost had me there! I KNOW YOU MEANT YES". And yep, even playing as a raider, running my own raider group as opposed to running dozens of annoying settlements. Why should i have to behave like a saint sent only to help and save the world? I am sick of that. I am a good person in real life, everyone likes me (sometimes even ppl who i dont like), i often help wherever i can, i am a good natured, peace loving moron, so FUCKING GIVE ME A BREAK AT LEAST WHILE PLAYING A GAME! ;-D I wouldn't neccessarilly need to do all those things all the time to enjoy the game - often just knowing that you could, can make a huge difference. I just want some shades of gray (do not confuse with that stupid movie or book Anyway, i am definitely going to try and mod some of these things once the CK is out, that you can count on. I think someone should explain natural selection to the wastelanders... How the fuck theyve survived those 210 years withoume me to clean theyr asses?
Roggvir Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I liked your raider idea, but what about variations? I wouldnt want to be surrounded bynon mutaded supermutants 9seriously, most raiders are monumentally stupid). Ill make my own mafia family faction anyway, but your idea is great! i this mod gets made, it would be awesome to have more dark factions (the Old World Family, is an chaotic nutral faction, untill someone fucks with us or our business. Those people have the custom of disappearing or "moving" to raider camps/becoming relief or test subjects 9theyre a futuristic wateland mafia) By all means, the more varied the better. That raiders idea was meant mostly as an example - something i would like to see, but not limited to just that. In general, i would welcome if all of the existing evil/shady/enemy factions would be joinable, if they could have some impact on some quests, or provide choices to do some quests in different ways. And yes, Old World Family sounds tempting. What i want to stress is that alongside a quests overhaul, it would be also great to have possiblities of other kinds of non-quest dealings with various factions, than just outright hostile - yes, those examples i gave before, ability to aproach raiders/mutants/etc and talk to them, trade. For example, with some survival mod (along the lines of iNeed, or Realistic Needs and Diseases for Skyrim), combined with loot/clutter overhaul that would make food supplies more scarce, maybe even with some damage overhaul that makes combat really lethal (i am talking one hit kills, and crippled limbs on single hit unless having good armor, etc.), it would be often very much desired to do business, to trade, instead of trying to fight everyone. It would make the game more intense, and more interesting for me.
pepertje Posted February 17, 2016 Author Posted February 17, 2016 Overhaul? You dont want to "overhaul" the main quest, you want to get rid of that crap! Here is my idea of a story... You wake up in your cryo unit after watching the same scene as in vanilla game start, but to get out, you will be required to access the Overseer's computer to get passcode or something, written in a memo that ends with a PS saying something like "Interesting fact - the DNA scans from the initial medical examination revealed that our youngest resident, Shaun, is not his father's son. I think the big guy doesn't know, and something tells me he'll be really pissed if he finds out. LOL :)" (that should take the whole "must go find Shaun" out of the picture). Once you get out of the vault, the game might point you to sancuary, as the vanilla does, where you meet Codsworth. (You are totally green, unexperienced, and not knowing what can you expect from the wasteland, so it does makes sense you'd go there) Sanctuary... So, you get to Sanctuary and see Codsworth fighting three raiders who came to loot the house, thinking the reason that robot is always there, must be because he is guarding something of worth. You can wait for the raiders to destroy that piece of junk, or you can even help them to speed things up. Once the fight is over, the raiders greet you and offer you to join them, and help search the house for that glorious hidden loot. If you decide to join, you can help searching - to your big surprise, there actually IS a hidden safe underneath the crib/cradle/cot? full of pre-war money and your wife's diary (apparently she was hoarding cash, getting ready to leave you and go live with Bob - Shaun's real father - but she needed more money because Bob was good for nothing lazy drunk). *** Note #1: Insert a different name into the diary, if player named his character Bob (or whatever that guys name will be). *** Note #2: It isn't neccessary for Codsworth to get destroyed, he could be only disabled (like any essential robot), so he could be later still available as a companion (but then it would be preferable if he could be somehow made more raider-ish). Raiders are frustrated by finding nothing of value, because they cannot return to the boss with empty hands (this would be the second time they didn't bring anything, and that's just not gonna fly). So, they have no choice but go to Concord to rob some people they saw there earlier - it was too risky before, but now with you it is doable. Concord... You arrive in middle of an ongoing fight between some other group of raiders and those ppl you intend to rob. You have two options: Join the fight with other raiders, and split any loot after its done. Wait how the fight ends, and then deal with the weakened remains of whoever won. Regardless of your choice here, Preston Garvey just fought his last battle (that takes care of the annoying Minutemen including their whole questline, and those whiny Sanctuary settlers). After dealing with Garvey's group and those other raiders (if need be), you travel with your trusty companions to Combat Zone, to meet with the boss and get properly initiated into the group. *** Note #3: Unlike Codsworth, Preston MUST DIE here, because i really really hate him To the Combat Zone... Somewhere on the way, you came upon a scene of slaugther, dead raiders everywhere, bodies in pieces. While looting the bodies, your companions make interesting discovery, it goes like this... Raider 1: Hmmm, what's this? Raider 2: Is that a card? i can't read Raider 3: Give it here, you moron... who's Pickman? Raider 1: What the?!! LOOK AT THIS HEAD! ITS OUR BOSS!! ...yeah, one of the bodies is the boss you were all supposed to meet in Combat Zone. Slightly unexpected, but generally good news! Now you don't have to share your loot with anoyone! ...well, only one problem - your companions, they don't realize it, but they do need a boss, somebody who will tell them what to do, where to go, who to kill, and most importantly - who gets what. Otherwise they'd just kill each other arguing. As expected, the cheering and laughs turns silent, and you see your three companions pointing guns at each other. You can defuse the situation by headshoting one of them (the toughest one, to get the desired effect, otherwise they would all turn on you), or by talking them down (if your charisma is high enough) - both resulting in you being elected the new boss (this doesn't make you automatically some king of raiders, it just turns them into proper companions that you can ask to follow you any time). Being the raider... Now instead of building settlements or farms, and hiring settlers, you could be building camps and hiring raiders. And instead of assigning settlers to farming duty or scavenging, you could be sending raiders on raids to selected locations. You could also take a group of several raiders and go rob some settlers or farmers (preferably without killing them - you may be a raider, but that doesnt make you stupid, you dont kill your food source! Just bring enough force to scare them, keep pointing guns on them, and let your ppl take whatever they find on them). You could also take up to several (4? 5? more?) raiders to acompany you, and ...well, wreak havoc. ...there is much more that could be done, this is just a quick draft. A lot of the vanilla quests, probably including some of the main story quests, could be somehow "twisted" to work with this. But the main purpose is to get rid of the IMO annoying and dumb vanilla main quest, and all that extremely annoying do-gooder shit that the vanilla game forces on you no matter what you want. Whatever, just remember: raiders are people too! they shouldn't be ALL some brainless evil canibalistic robots that ALWAYS kill 9and eat) everyone they see (as the vanilla game presents them). Any other raider groups (any random encounters etc.) would be neutral, and attack only if attacked, or in some cases if you get too close - provided you are wearing some variant of raider armor (or at least N number of pieces of raider armor). On the other hand, to be able to visit Diamond City, Goodneighbor, etc., you'd have to wear anything except raider armor. Sounds fun, but what if you play with a female character? Then the whole "Shaun is not my kid anyway" means she's got to be extremely stupid to not have figured that out yet. Joining raiders, as fun as it sounds, would be a restrain on the rest of the main quest, the way I see it. Raiders don't have any reason to further the Commonwealth, only themselves. The factions I mentioned in my idea would all have some interest in shaping the future of the Commonwealth. And yes, I do agree that the Gunners are pretty much organized Raiders, and that's why I like them. Also, the whole point of the idea I had was to eliminate the Pre-War element, not just to deal with Shaun. I personally dislike the idea of not being able to come up with the story that my character used to be a badass bounty hunter who got gaught in a mess at someplace which triggered the story.
windu190 Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 I'm still hoping someone will make this scene: Father: "Kellog never told you what happened to your son." Sole Survivor: "He told me enough, he told me you kidnapped him!" Father: "No, I am your son." *Dramatic music* Sole Survivor: "No.. that's not true.. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!"
pepertje Posted February 17, 2016 Author Posted February 17, 2016 I'm still hoping someone will make this scene: Father: "Kellog never told you what happened to your son." Sole Survivor: "He told me enough, he told me you kidnapped him!" Father: "No, I am your son." *Dramatic music* Sole Survivor: "No.. that's not true.. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!" Honestly... yes. That would be awesome. Especially with a mod like this, it would all be like "Dude, I don't even have a son." I can picture it already XD: Female character walks in, Shaun says "I am your son", female character: "I'm pretty sure I'd remember giving birth. Either that or it's not nearly as memorable as everyone makes you believe."
panthercom Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 If given the choice to reinterpret the main quest with a female character, I would simply turn her into Shaun's babysitter, relative or next door neighbor. The other possibility is that you are a bounty hunter being paid to track down the kid. If you're a male character you could be getting paid with 200 year old pussy; although mommy would need a cosmetic upgrade before I would hit it And if your wife was cheating on you, she was doing it with the Vault-Tec salesman...
pepertje Posted February 17, 2016 Author Posted February 17, 2016 If given the choice to reinterpret the main quest with a female character, I would simply turn her into Shaun's babysitter, relative or next door neighbor. The other possibility is that you are a bounty hunter being paid to track down the kid. If you're a male character you could be getting paid with 200 year old pussy; although mommy would need a cosmetic upgrade before I would hit it And if your wife was cheating on you, she was doing it with the Vault-Tec salesman... That would explain how the guy recognizes them after 200+ years
Anbeegod Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I was starting to find this thread creepy. lol
Roggvir Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 Overhaul? You dont want to "overhaul" the main quest, you want to get rid of that crap! Here is my idea of a story... You wake up in your cryo unit after watching the same scene as in vanilla game start, but to get out, you will be required to access the Overseer's computer to get passcode or something, written in a memo that ends with a PS saying something like "Interesting fact - the DNA scans from the initial medical examination revealed that our youngest resident, Shaun, is not his father's son. I think the big guy doesn't know, and something tells me he'll be really pissed if he finds out. LOL :)" (that should take the whole "must go find Shaun" out of the picture). Once you get out of the vault, the game might point you to sancuary, as the vanilla does, where you meet Codsworth. (You are totally green, unexperienced, and not knowing what can you expect from the wasteland, so it does makes sense you'd go there) Sanctuary... So, you get to Sanctuary and see Codsworth fighting three raiders who came to loot the house, thinking the reason that robot is always there, must be because he is guarding something of worth. You can wait for the raiders to destroy that piece of junk, or you can even help them to speed things up. Once the fight is over, the raiders greet you and offer you to join them, and help search the house for that glorious hidden loot. If you decide to join, you can help searching - to your big surprise, there actually IS a hidden safe underneath the crib/cradle/cot? full of pre-war money and your wife's diary (apparently she was hoarding cash, getting ready to leave you and go live with Bob - Shaun's real father - but she needed more money because Bob was good for nothing lazy drunk). *** Note #1: Insert a different name into the diary, if player named his character Bob (or whatever that guys name will be). *** Note #2: It isn't neccessary for Codsworth to get destroyed, he could be only disabled (like any essential robot), so he could be later still available as a companion (but then it would be preferable if he could be somehow made more raider-ish). Raiders are frustrated by finding nothing of value, because they cannot return to the boss with empty hands (this would be the second time they didn't bring anything, and that's just not gonna fly). So, they have no choice but go to Concord to rob some people they saw there earlier - it was too risky before, but now with you it is doable. Concord... You arrive in middle of an ongoing fight between some other group of raiders and those ppl you intend to rob. You have two options: Join the fight with other raiders, and split any loot after its done. Wait how the fight ends, and then deal with the weakened remains of whoever won. Regardless of your choice here, Preston Garvey just fought his last battle (that takes care of the annoying Minutemen including their whole questline, and those whiny Sanctuary settlers). After dealing with Garvey's group and those other raiders (if need be), you travel with your trusty companions to Combat Zone, to meet with the boss and get properly initiated into the group. *** Note #3: Unlike Codsworth, Preston MUST DIE here, because i really really hate him To the Combat Zone... Somewhere on the way, you came upon a scene of slaugther, dead raiders everywhere, bodies in pieces. While looting the bodies, your companions make interesting discovery, it goes like this... Raider 1: Hmmm, what's this? Raider 2: Is that a card? i can't read Raider 3: Give it here, you moron... who's Pickman? Raider 1: What the?!! LOOK AT THIS HEAD! ITS OUR BOSS!! ...yeah, one of the bodies is the boss you were all supposed to meet in Combat Zone. Slightly unexpected, but generally good news! Now you don't have to share your loot with anoyone! ...well, only one problem - your companions, they don't realize it, but they do need a boss, somebody who will tell them what to do, where to go, who to kill, and most importantly - who gets what. Otherwise they'd just kill each other arguing. As expected, the cheering and laughs turns silent, and you see your three companions pointing guns at each other. You can defuse the situation by headshoting one of them (the toughest one, to get the desired effect, otherwise they would all turn on you), or by talking them down (if your charisma is high enough) - both resulting in you being elected the new boss (this doesn't make you automatically some king of raiders, it just turns them into proper companions that you can ask to follow you any time). Being the raider... Now instead of building settlements or farms, and hiring settlers, you could be building camps and hiring raiders. And instead of assigning settlers to farming duty or scavenging, you could be sending raiders on raids to selected locations. You could also take a group of several raiders and go rob some settlers or farmers (preferably without killing them - you may be a raider, but that doesnt make you stupid, you dont kill your food source! Just bring enough force to scare them, keep pointing guns on them, and let your ppl take whatever they find on them). You could also take up to several (4? 5? more?) raiders to acompany you, and ...well, wreak havoc. ...there is much more that could be done, this is just a quick draft. A lot of the vanilla quests, probably including some of the main story quests, could be somehow "twisted" to work with this. But the main purpose is to get rid of the IMO annoying and dumb vanilla main quest, and all that extremely annoying do-gooder shit that the vanilla game forces on you no matter what you want. Whatever, just remember: raiders are people too! they shouldn't be ALL some brainless evil canibalistic robots that ALWAYS kill 9and eat) everyone they see (as the vanilla game presents them). Any other raider groups (any random encounters etc.) would be neutral, and attack only if attacked, or in some cases if you get too close - provided you are wearing some variant of raider armor (or at least N number of pieces of raider armor). On the other hand, to be able to visit Diamond City, Goodneighbor, etc., you'd have to wear anything except raider armor. Sounds fun, but what if you play with a female character? Then the whole "Shaun is not my kid anyway" means she's got to be extremely stupid to not have figured that out yet. Joining raiders, as fun as it sounds, would be a restrain on the rest of the main quest, the way I see it. Raiders don't have any reason to further the Commonwealth, only themselves. The factions I mentioned in my idea would all have some interest in shaping the future of the Commonwealth. And yes, I do agree that the Gunners are pretty much organized Raiders, and that's why I like them. Also, the whole point of the idea I had was to eliminate the Pre-War element, not just to deal with Shaun. I personally dislike the idea of not being able to come up with the story that my character used to be a badass bounty hunter who got gaught in a mess at someplace which triggered the story. Lol, good point, i didnt think about it from female perspective Well, the simplest solution is to make a completely different start for female chars - just remove the baby (and corresponding dialogs or comments) from the pre-war era and from the vault scenes, but you can still keep the vault-tec guy and all the rest. Now some reason why your husband would get shot by Kellogg - the scene would have to be changed - with no baby, they came to get some blood samples or something, your hubby didnt like it, jumps out of the cryo unit and attacks Kellogg who shoots him. Regarding raiders... Yep, restraining the main quest is the main purpose i am after.BUT i dont see much difference - raiders may not have the desire to change the Commonwealth, maybe they even want to keep the chaos, or maybe they just dont like any of the other factions, so they may want to prevent any of them from gaining the upper hand. I do not have need for any "main story", i dont need an ultimate goal - but you can still have one, even as a raider. When it comes to having a goal, how is "i want to keep the chaos" different from "i want chaos gone with my faction on top"? I think both are quite specific goals that can support various kind of quests and have some story elements. The absence of centralized leadership is not a problem, it can even be an advantage - this is not a fullscale war, no trenches, no frontlines, this is just anarchy and chaos of small mostly isolated skirmishes. You can still keep some of the BoS, Railroad, and Institute quests - although you may change and mix them a bit - for example, you are not going to blow up BoS's Hindenburg because you love synths and Railroad sent you, but because you are a raider who hate BoS, and who fooled them to trust you enough so you can infiltrate them, secretly set the explosive charges, leave in peace, and then watch the fireworks. Yep, raiders are not about saving anyone, much less the whole Commonwealth.What drives them is simple survival - like any other faction is/would be, with their delusions of grandure removed. So, for raiders, the purpose of any quests should be to ensure survival. I would think of raiders be a bit like the Legion in F3, except without all that false honor bullshit, and without centralized leadership. - various kinds of missions to hit BoS, because they actively pursue raiders with almost same passion as any monsters. - raid farms and settlements. - go on scavenging missions (food, liquor :-), gear) - go hunting for slaves, or to catch humans as in "meat" (the game hints quite heavily on some raiders being cannibals, so... but of course you may choose not to do such missions, its your choice if you want to be cannibal, or slaver, etc.). I understand your main point, to get rid of the pre-war element. I just think "why stop there", and i'd like the idea to expand to allow even more freedom for player throughout the whole game. Raiders are just one thing i am currently thinking about, but not the only thing - similar things should be done for Gunners, Triggermen, maybe even mutants (could be fun, having playable mutant race), etc. I think it would be nice to make as much changes as possible, that prevents the main story (and some side quests) from enforcing who you are, what you think, and how you play the game (surely we all remember first encounter with Preston after the raiders are defeated, where depending on the dialog choices Preston says "You talk like a jerk, but you still helped us out. Whether you wanted or not." - EXACLTY! I didn't wanted to, but the game forced me anyway!!!). If we break down the main story, how many outcomes (with some faction-wise impact) are there? 2? 3? Think of what kind of world changing events happen during the playthrough - any of them could happen regardless of which faction the player joins (even if none). What needs to be changed, depending on factions and play style, are the reasons why stuff happens and some details about how it happens (changes in what the player has to do, to make that particular stuff to happen).
Kendo 2 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I have a few suggestions since I think the vanilla MQ stinks on ice. #1: Instead of trying to remove the quests, try disabling them. In the quest tabs, remove the dialogue from the player and NPCs. It could be as simple as adding a new quest stage that can never be set or completed and editing all of the dialogue with a new GetStage condition. If that condition is never met, the dialogue will never become available and the quest cannot advance. The player won’t be talking about baby Shaun and NPCs won’t either. This could also be accomplished by editing the initial main quest like above and then adding a ‘GetQuestDone’ condition to any associated quest after that. If the initial quest can never be completed the remaining quests will never start. Remove the quests’ scripted events from all associated trigger zones and activators. This will have to be done both in the object window and in individual cells for generic triggers and activators. In other words it will require a lot of meta knowledge about the game and where things happen. It will also take a lot of time if Skyrim is any hint as to how convoluted and fucked up Bethesda quest scheming is. By removing the quests, there wouldn’t be any need for new voice acting. If there was a need, vanilla voice files can be extracted and used, with any added dialogue written to work with what is already available. #2: Dealing with ‘Father’. If the player sides with the Brotherhood/Railroad ‘Father’ will be hostile. No dialogue with him and no interaction other than combat. OR he is simply disabled and moved to a hold cell, with the implication he somehow escaped. OR the player finds him and he’s already dead. If the player sides with the Institute ‘Father’ is a shadowy leader they protect and keep sequestered. The player will never encounter him. I know none of this sounds ideal BUT if you can get what I have typed out to work then the rest of what you have planned would be that much easier. I suggest doing something like that and then playtesting the shit out of it; ‘main quest’ start to finish. Leave the vault and then proceed to destroy the Brotherhood or Institute as normal. IF it works for several players with different game installs then it would be safe to move forward with other plans.
Anbeegod Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 As a matter of fact, dealing of the old quest wouldn't be as hard as you'd like to imagine. Just set a variable to 0 upon game start, and all quests that consist the players' background info can only start with that variable being 1. Don't even need to bother manually edit the dialogues. A decent new story is going to be the biggest concern, engine handling comes next, and voice acting the third. Trust me, a story mod without voice will absolutely not be intriguing, let alone being very popular. People hate to admit it, but it's a fact.
pepertje Posted February 18, 2016 Author Posted February 18, 2016 I have a few suggestions since I think the vanilla MQ stinks on ice. #1: Instead of trying to remove the quests, try disabling them. In the quest tabs, remove the dialogue from the player and NPCs. It could be as simple as adding a new quest stage that can never be set or completed and editing all of the dialogue with a new GetStage condition. If that condition is never met, the dialogue will never become available and the quest cannot advance. The player won’t be talking about baby Shaun and NPCs won’t either. This could also be accomplished by editing the initial main quest like above and then adding a ‘GetQuestDone’ condition to any associated quest after that. If the initial quest can never be completed the remaining quests will never start. Remove the quests’ scripted events from all associated trigger zones and activators. This will have to be done both in the object window and in individual cells for generic triggers and activators. In other words it will require a lot of meta knowledge about the game and where things happen. It will also take a lot of time if Skyrim is any hint as to how convoluted and fucked up Bethesda quest scheming is. By removing the quests, there wouldn’t be any need for new voice acting. If there was a need, vanilla voice files can be extracted and used, with any added dialogue written to work with what is already available. #2: Dealing with ‘Father’. If the player sides with the Brotherhood/Railroad ‘Father’ will be hostile. No dialogue with him and no interaction other than combat. OR he is simply disabled and moved to a hold cell, with the implication he somehow escaped. OR the player finds him and he’s already dead. If the player sides with the Institute ‘Father’ is a shadowy leader they protect and keep sequestered. The player will never encounter him. I know none of this sounds ideal BUT if you can get what I have typed out to work then the rest of what you have planned would be that much easier. I suggest doing something like that and then playtesting the shit out of it; ‘main quest’ start to finish. Leave the vault and then proceed to destroy the Brotherhood or Institute as normal. IF it works for several players with different game installs then it would be safe to move forward with other plans. Aside from your method of dealing with Father, I pretty much had the same idea in mind, so good to see we're on the same page
pepertje Posted February 18, 2016 Author Posted February 18, 2016 As a matter of fact, dealing of the old quest wouldn't be as hard as you'd like to imagine. Just set a variable to 0 upon game start, and all quests that consist the players' background info can only start with that variable being 1. Don't even need to bother manually edit the dialogues. A decent new story is going to be the biggest concern, engine handling comes next, and voice acting the third. Trust me, a story mod without voice will absolutely not be intriguing, let alone being very popular. People hate to admit it, but it's a fact. Agreed. The story should either kick ass in story itself, or the features it offers. And I think with everyone here bashing FO4 for its focus on story, the features need to be a spearpoint for this. However, I doubt Courtenay Taylor and Brian T. Delaney would like to step in the booth for this, so the PC will have either a different voice or no voice at all.
DocClox Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I'm still hoping someone will make this scene: Father: "Kellog never told you what happened to your son." Sole Survivor: "He told me enough, he told me you kidnapped him!" Father: "No, I am your son." *Dramatic music* Sole Survivor: "No.. that's not true.. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!" Father: Search your feelings. You know this to be true. The Reverse Vader really deserves its own trope. [edit] Nevermind
windu190 Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 I'm still hoping someone will make this scene: Father: "Kellog never told you what happened to your son." Sole Survivor: "He told me enough, he told me you kidnapped him!" Father: "No, I am your son." *Dramatic music* Sole Survivor: "No.. that's not true.. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!" Father: Search your feelings. You know this to be true. The Reverse Vader really deserves its own trope. [edit] Nevermind Father: "I'm not talking about some abstract concept of control, I mean real tangible POWERRRR!!!! UNLIMITED POWER!!!"
pepertje Posted February 18, 2016 Author Posted February 18, 2016 I'm thinking maybe Father should be the mysterious figure you don't see until you've permanently joined the Institute. Up until that point, the Representative does most of the talking on his behalf towards the player. Once you've joined the Institute, you finally meet the face behind the ruthless and advanced society known as the Institute. Or even way later along the main quest line, so the player fights for a mysterious figure they only know pulls the strings, and not even be sure he even exists.
Kimy Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 One thing about the main quest I truly hated is that you can make friends with all of the factions first, and then suddenly have to wipe out half of them. I would love an overhaul allowing me to end the game without going to war with people I used to share drinks with not too long ago.
Anbeegod Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 One thing about the main quest I truly hated is that you can make friends with all of the factions first, and then suddenly have to wipe out half of them. I would love an overhaul allowing me to end the game without going to war with people I used to share drinks with not too long ago. Now I don't think it's necessary or logical for BOS and the Institute to coexist peacefully. I think the MQ system should use the one in FNV (except the faction apparel thing), that if you do too much work for a faction, you'd be cast out from the one that is opposite to it - which is quite the way of the vanilla MQ, but a declined version. At any rate, I wasn't even attached to a particular faction, because all of them are assholes. BOS is the fascists, Institute is Illuminati, Railroad doesn't give a fuck about common people and is like "synths but nothing else are the most important things on earth", and Garvey is using me as a puppet. Compared to a peaceful solution mod, I'd rather have a Yes Man mod that allows me to truly rule the Commonwealth.
pepertje Posted February 18, 2016 Author Posted February 18, 2016 One thing about the main quest I truly hated is that you can make friends with all of the factions first, and then suddenly have to wipe out half of them. I would love an overhaul allowing me to end the game without going to war with people I used to share drinks with not too long ago. Now I don't think it's necessary or logical for BOS and the Institute to coexist peacefully. I think the MQ system should use the one in FNV (except the faction apparel thing), that if you do too much work for a faction, you'd be cast out from the one that is opposite to it - which is quite the way of the vanilla MQ, but a declined version. At any rate, I wasn't even attached to a particular faction, because all of them are assholes. BOS is the fascists, Institute is Illuminati, Railroad doesn't give a fuck about normal people, and Garvey is using me as a puppet. Compared to a peaceful solution mod, I'd rather have a Yes Man mod that allows me to truly rule the Commonwealth. Maybe have the war begin with negotiations that are doomed to fail, and give the player the opportunity to be all like "Fuck you, I'll make my own Commonwealth, with blackjack and hookers."
Kimy Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 One thing about the main quest I truly hated is that you can make friends with all of the factions first, and then suddenly have to wipe out half of them. I would love an overhaul allowing me to end the game without going to war with people I used to share drinks with not too long ago. Now I don't think it's necessary or logical for BOS and the Institute to coexist peacefully. I think the MQ system should use the one in FNV (except the faction apparel thing), that if you do too much work for a faction, you'd be cast out from the one that is opposite to it - which is quite the way of the vanilla MQ, but a declined version. At any rate, I wasn't even attached to a particular faction, because all of them are assholes. BOS is the fascists, Institute is Illuminati, Railroad doesn't give a fuck about common people and is like "synths but nothing else are the most important things on earth", and Garvey is using me as a puppet. Compared to a peaceful solution mod, I'd rather have a Yes Man mod that allows me to truly rule the Commonwealth. Well, I took the Institute ending and I really wonder why the new Director (who in my case happens to be a Paladin of the BoS as well!) cannot negotiate a truce between the two given her strong ties to both. The Sole Survivor has a -lot- more ties to the Commonwealth than Shaun ever did and in contrast to him has earned the trust of at least some of the other factions (in my case, all of them) to a large enough degree that they'd likely at least listen to her. The Railroad? Seriously, as the new Director who showed mercy to Synths throughout the game? It's completely out of character to just wipe them out. Given her background (again, in my case), she'd very likely change the way the Institute is treating the Synths and make the Railroad just obsolete, and that's that. And actually I see it other way around - I don't think any of the four factions is necessarily evil. They all mean well, even the Institute. Just some of the things they do are somewhat misguided. Which is why I personally found it so hard to eliminate some of them like a homicidal maniac. "Yes, Proctor Ingram, two days ago I called you sister, but now I am going to put a bullet in your head, just because!" Gimme a break! That being said, I like your suggestion for a "factionless win", too. That should also be possible, really.
Guest Comrade DR. MAHUJ DIK Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 One thing about the main quest I truly hated is that you can make friends with all of the factions first, and then suddenly have to wipe out half of them. I would love an overhaul allowing me to end the game without going to war with people I used to share drinks with not too long ago. Now I don't think it's necessary or logical for BOS and the Institute to coexist peacefully. I think the MQ system should use the one in FNV (except the faction apparel thing), that if you do too much work for a faction, you'd be cast out from the one that is opposite to it - which is quite the way of the vanilla MQ, but a declined version. At any rate, I wasn't even attached to a particular faction, because all of them are assholes. BOS is the fascists, Institute is Illuminati, Railroad doesn't give a fuck about normal people, and Garvey is using me as a puppet. Compared to a peaceful solution mod, I'd rather have a Yes Man mod that allows me to truly rule the Commonwealth. Maybe have the war begin with negotiations that are doomed to fail, and give the player the opportunity to be all like "Fuck you, I'll make my own Commonwealth, with blackjack and hookers." The only thing I think is as essential to be moded ASAP than this is an alternate start and last night after some insomnia I found a solution for both. Ill divide it on 2 posts, thios one explaining the solutions for the MQ and the next about the alternate start. 1) if you used an alternate start and join a faction after level 20 youll be contacted by your faction because they got a courser chip. Then the related take down the institute quest will begin. BOS: They will arrive when you hit lvl 10. Youll receive a radio signal ordering you to report to the pridewen ASAP for a mission. Railroad: an npc will pass by and say you left something fall and give you a letter. It says that they need you at the HQ. 2)the crossroad event: On level 20 if the player is not alligned with anyone itll meet a battle aftermacth between the railroad, BOS and a courser, pointing guns at each other (theyre all out of ammo). Then a dialog will start: "Kill it civilian! Its a synth, a mechanical abomination." (paladin) "We are not mechanical, wera artificial lifeforms created by the institute to serve and help them to build a new society and save this world." (courser) "And you do it by enslaving them and huntying those who run away" (railroad) "the institute created all synths, without them we wouldnt exist, obeing them is the reason of a synths existance. Its retrieval shall proceed." Option 1) the paladin is right, synths are nothing but problem (BOS alliance) Option 2) The institute has superior tech, theyre can change the commonwealth. (institute alliance) Option 3) All sentient beings deserve freedom. (railroad alliance) option 4) Not my problem. (neutral) choosing the BOS will end with reinforcements arriving and killing the others. Choosing the Institute synths are teleported, kill the railroad agent and the paladin and everyone is tealeported. (starts institutionalized, but youre not shauns father).By choosing the railroad the courser and the knight will be sniped and youll be taken to the Railrod HQ. By continuing neutral you wont take part on the war. 3) neutrality: if you remain neutral on the crossroads event after a week in game next time you enter diamond city or goodneighboor youll see 2 npcs talking aboujt the war and thell ask for you opinion on who will win. After answering youll hear a huge exploision and another npc will pass shouting and running. Your guess was right.
Guest Comrade DR. MAHUJ DIK Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 Alternative start (gear and starting place varies on decision. Background perk): its all black then you see yourself (character creation). "this is a dream, but who are we?"(your image) 1) wake up (vanilla start) 2) a boston citizen (vault 111 start) 3) a wastelander 4) a gen 3 synth BOSTON CITIZEN PATH: Do you remember our first job? 1) we were a cop. "what were our last orders?" 1) Patrol.(police start) 2) invbestigate a crime. (detective start) 3) Look for clues on the crime scene. (CSI start) 2) It was after the college "what was our degree?" 1) engeenering. 2) medicine. 3) profesional player. "I remember our first championship" 1)Ive set a new homerun record. (baseball player) 2)My oponent went down on the first round (fighter) You hear the sirens and start to unfreeze, Who woke you up? 1)people on white clothes (institute won the war) 2)soldiers on power armor (BOS VIctory) 3) a men with black glasses (deacon) (railroad victory) 4)a guy with a funny hat and weird gun (preston). (the war hast started) WASTELANDER PATH what we became? 1) railroad agent. 2) mercenary. 3) BOS knight SYNTH PATH Why were free? 1) we run away (will start on the railroad) 2)were a courser(institute start) 3) we are the first of our kind. A human synth hybrid between a female courser and a scientist. (institute start) Cop start: law keeper perk: 10% extra damage against raiders, 10% less damage from raiders. coffer on your house (the yellow one with the power armor frame): police outfit, authority glasses, bull barrel .45. Detective start: truth seeker perk: 50% extra exp from dialogue checks coffer on yellow house: a random trenchcoat,worn fedora,cigarrete pack CSI start: Investigator vision perk: highlight chems and ammo. coffer: authority glasses. engenieer start: mechanical knownledge Perk; mods are cheaper to build, power armor have 10% more "life" coffer: hardhat. Doctor start: trust me im a doctor perk: chems are cheaper to make, can heal companions without using stimpacks. coffer: scientist clothes (forgot the ingame name) Baseball player: MVP perk: atack 25% fater with baseball bats, can trow grenades far. coffer; baseball clothing and cap, baseball bat. martial artist: fists of fury perk: punch atacks are twice as fast. railroad agent: starts at the railroad HQ. undercover perk; moves fater when sneaking. starting gear: random civilian clothes, silenced 10mm. mercenary:starts at goodneighbour soldier of fortune perk: whn sking for money reawards, +5 charisma for 20 seconds. starting gear: drifter outfit,authority glasses, double bartrel shotgun BOS knight: Starts at the prydewen ad victorian: takes 10% less damage from any non human enemy. starting gear: laser rifle,t-61 set Runaway synth. starts at the railroad HQ Run to freedom perk: increased movement speed Synthetic perk:+1 strenght,agility and endurance. starting gear: random civilian clothes, institute pistol. Courser: starts at the institute born to kill: deals 10% extra damage Synthetic perk:+1 strenght,agility and endurance. starting gear: courser outfit, institute rifle hybrid : starts at the institute enchaced humanity perk: +2 all special stats Starting gear: institute pistol, random civilian clothes
circ Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 I'm hoping someone maybe makes a Postman total conversion. Remove all factions except raiders. Cut down the number of settlements, enlarge remaining ones. Run around delivering mail and fighting raiders. Well something like that.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.