Just saw some guys say they hope TESVI's story won't be as bad as F4...

[Anbeegod]

What I want to say is that TES' story (except Morrowind) is NEVER as good as Fallout's, not even F4.  It's simply unrealistic to hope TESVI to do a better job than even F4.

 

In TES, Beth tend to provide an epic background and setting, but do shitty job when it comes to writing the actual course and atmosphere shaping. The Skyrim CW is the most representative example, which you basically don't even feel there's a war going on; and the Oblivion Crisis, that you know it ends the true imperial dynasty and changes Tamriel forever, but almost no influence of the OC on common people (besides Kvatch) is shown in the whole game. Beth simply NEVER did in-depth writing in the story, you hear NPCs saying something is bad, but you won't realize how bad the situation is. Also, you're always the "errand boy" character in Oblivion and Skyrim, just in different names and positions, and can do things only in the few ways which Beth intended. Great setting and background, bad atmosphere and immersion, these describe the TES story writing.

 

Whereas, Fallout provides both intriguing background and in-depth writing. You actually get to be involved in the series of events, and you can change the world and see the impacts of your actions. Fallout 4 does a worse job in this than F3 and FNV, but it's still better than how things are expressed in Oblivion and Skyrim, because you can at least see the aftermath of the Institute war, whereas Alduin's death and the CW's end has exactly no significant change to the game world, and the death of Alduin, the failure of Dagon, are the only possible outcomes of the stories. There's not a single bit of freedom in this.

 

F4's 4 dialogue option system is widely criticized by the players, a lot of people think it's even worse than Skyrim. Do they even realize, most of Skyrim's conversation branches only have 2 to 3 options for the player, and almost all of these options would only lead to the same outcome? This hardly beats F4's dialogue system, because they're fundamentally equally bad.

 

F4 doesn't have good story writing compared to FNV. Its story aspect of freedom is shittier than what were before it - yet it's still a lot better than Skyrim's empty void story.

 

It's simply unrealistic to expect TESVI to have such a tremendous leap from Skyrim. F4 has much less freedom and character shaping elements than before, but let's admit the fact that TES NEVER has freedom of story and character shaping since Oblivion. Would you be upset because World of Warcraft cannot be modded and you can't shout Fus Ro Dah in Dragon Age? What F4 lacks, isn't necessarily what TESVI would have to build.

 

I'm not saying which game is better than the other as a whole, but when it comes to story, Fallout simply dominates the game. TES can hardly beat Fallout on something that it simply lacks.

[primalsplit]

It would be rather foolish to take it for granted. But the fact that their story is declining is not a guarentee that it will keep declining. Too bad it seems to be a trend for succesful gaming companies to dumb their game down, possibly to cater to a larger audience. Now I like Oblivion and Skyrim, but they could have been written much better. Though Oblivion was still great with guild plotlines in my opinion. Skyrim though, not so much.

 

It's probably due to resource management. The more time passes on, the better games need to offer in terms of view, sound, gameplay etc (or so they think). So less resources and time can be spent on immersion, plots and general writing/atmosphere. Also releasing the game on time seems to be a concern too. There are financial and corporational elements at play here.

 

But who knows. Maybe they'll do it differently. Maybe the stars will align well and they can find enough resources and time, and feel free of pressure more and we'll truly get a masterpiece.

[Guest Vendayn]

I dunno. Fallout 4 is the first Bethesda game I didn't even stick with. It felt like playing a Bioware game, mixed with borderlands. Very little RPG at all. Heck, unlike Skyrim and other fallouts/ES games...you can't even keep talking to an NPC, they just ignore you after first initial conversation. Its been dumbed down so much. I don't even bother playing it, and mods won't make it fun to me at all, unlike Skyrim. The low user reviews on metacritic are pretty accurate, despite some actual trolling on there...they are right, Fallout 4 is a very terrible fallout game. And an even more terrible RPG.

 

With that said, Skyrim was pretty dumbed down compared to Oblivion (in Oblivion, you can turn off quest markers and still find the quest because the quest journal was so informative. And oblivion was a lot better in a lot of ways. With that said, I have far more played hours in Skyrim than oblivion and enjoy it more). But I thought Skyrim mods are vastly better than Oblivion ones, so that was probably what made up for it (not even Fallout 4 mods will fix that for me). But Morrowind was pretty good, but I actually liked Oblivion more than Morrowind.

 

But I think its because Oblivion had tons of epic mods, but even vanilla Oblivion I enjoyed a lot. Though people don't seem to like oblivion as much for some reason.

 

With that said, I still play Skyrim years later. More than I did Oblivion. And I still play fallout 3 and new vegas, which both are so much better than Fallout 4.

 

But if fallout 4 is any sign, then the next Elder Scrolls is not looking like its going to be very great. Pretty sure the voice acting will be epic, but then that will make everything else suck.

And to end it off. My friend who hates RPGs of any kind, and only plays call of duty and star wars battlefront said fallout 4 was the first "RPG" he liked because it reminded him a lot of call of duty but an open world. But he said there was no multiplayer so once he beat it, he returned it to gamestop rofl.

 

Pretty much speaks for itself lol.

[afa]

TES story was never good, not even Morrowind, I still don't get why people hold that game in some pedestal, IMO the closest to a good story in the recent 3 TES games is Oblivion, but it falls short on the thing that made TES games good compare to the other two, the world. It is too clutter and looks too samey to let the game stretches its legs, although that does make paradise and Shivering Isle really seem like something.

Skyrim had potential, but it was squandered, then again what could it really do to please everyone.

[Queen Bee]

It would be rather foolish to take it for granted. But the fact that their story is declining is not a guarentee that it will keep declining. Too bad it seems to be a trend for succesful gaming companies to dumb their game down, possibly to cater to a larger audience. Now I like Oblivion and Skyrim, but they could have been written much better. Though Oblivion was still great with guild plotlines in my opinion. Skyrim though, not so much.

 

It's probably due to resource management. The more time passes on, the better games need to offer in terms of view, sound, gameplay etc (or so they think). So less resources and time can be spent on immersion, plots and general writing/atmosphere. Also releasing the game on time seems to be a concern too. There are financial and corporational elements at play here.

 

But who knows. Maybe they'll do it differently. Maybe the stars will align well and they can find enough resources and time, and feel free of pressure more and we'll truly get a masterpiece.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head, with resource management. When I think of where open world RPGs have gone in recent years, it seems downhill is a good word to use when talking about their stories. Even huge games like GTA5 and Just Cause 3, which do great in terms of map size and overall gameplay, fail when it comes to quest satisfaction. There's a lot to do, sure...but often they lead to an ultimately anticlimactic ending (anyone who's played GTA5's submarine quest knows what I'm talking about here). A lot of the quests in games like this feel tacked on, almost as an afterthought, and I suspect it has something to do with how much time they spent on other things, like making a map that's hundreds of square miles or giving us destructible environments. Or, on the flip side of that, they intentionally dumbed things down so as not to tax the memory usage of weaker computers in order to reach as wide an audience as possible.

 

That's not to say I don't enjoy these games. I love open world RPGs, and even just riding around on my horse in Skyrim can be immensely satisfying. But what I really want is to immerse myself in a deep story that goes above and beyond to make me feel like I'm part of the world, like everything I do matters. In my fantasies I see a game that lets me direct the flow of the story, with multiple endings based on everything from my reputation to which side I chose in the war (if I chose a side at all). Hell, I'll gladly accept a hit to graphics quality if they can give me that, something mods can always improve.

[Rayblue]

In this day and place, some people want better content and writing, so it's too easy to say that right now TW3 holds most of the GOTY aces, except however, for the ease of modding.

 

Most game dev corporations have to balance between giving what the customers want and how much they'll have to earn Cs between development cycles, and to think up of something new and shiny. I mean, they're vastly different from decades ago, when some of those corporations were founded in the garage, on the principle of sharing what they love and making a bundle from it. Now it's a war of hardware and eye candy.

[bjornk]

Things will get worse and worse as long as they can sell their dumbed down games in large quantities. "If I can sell a much worse game to millions for the same price, just by better marketing, why put more money and effort into making the game better? We have no competition and nothing to prove anyway... " That's probably how they think and they'll continue to think that way... I haven't seen a single mind-blowing game in recent years made by the giants in the industry and I see nothing on the horizon to change this. Only small developers and indies might come up with something new and exciting. This is the business side of the story. It is also very likely that development studios like Bethesda truly lack the creativity and enthusiasm to make something better. They need "game jams" for new ideas to put in their games. Why? Because they probably lack the "grand vision" about what they want to create, which isn't a good sign at all. Their recent game also proves that in every possibly way...

 

 

[Nickolos1818]

TES 3 Morrowind.  Take a look at that games writing and story.  Just the dialogue alone when talking to npc's and npc's interacting with each other is 10 times better then whats in Oblivion and Skyrim.  Its like they actually took their time and WANTED the players to like the story more then the actual gameplay.

 

Then Oblivion comes out and it has this nice beginning story.  Then it just goes poof.  Story is no longer " engaging " enough.  Also in Morrowind, there was literally parts of the main quest you COULD NOT DO unless you were at a certain level and progress in the game.  They made you actually go out into the game and see and explore to get your experience and understand what all these different factions were and how they all see the character you play as.  Depending on your choices with some factions others would out right hate you.

 

Oblivion and Skyrim don't have anything close to those mechanics.   Skyrim and Oblivion, without mods at all, is just a " oh lets do this main quest, then I am done with the game. "  Morrowind by itself has no limitations on what a character can do, how they do it or when.  Only thing they went out of their way to do, non choice wise, was to make your character get involved with the factions in order to advance your main story.

 

To me its the best TES game that has came out.  Nothing story wise in TES has caught my attention for so long and makes me want to keep playing it then Morrowind has.

 

F4, has had some great moments to where as a fan of the lore I literally had chills when certain factions / people showed up.  There is a author out on 3dm that is making a NCR expansion mod for F4.  He has staited he wants to do a DC wastelands BoS mod as well for F4.

[Rayblue]

Too easy to wear those rose-colored glasses. Too easy to say that most gaming companies forgot about listening and then delivering a better product to customers -- CD Projekt is probably the only dev that goes against the grain.

[Yami X]

Well greed ruins everything. 

[Anbeegod]

I was talking about story, then you guys came in and talked about the games as wholes. lol

 

If TESVI's story matches even Fallout 4, we'd have to be thankful.

[primalsplit]

I was talking about story, then you guys came in and talked about the games as wholes. lol

 

If TESVI's story matches even Fallout 4, we'd have to be thankful.

But to us, they are almost the same. Single player games like these almost mean nothing without a meaning attached to them. Story, immersion, atmosphere are the most important aspects of them.

 

I am thankful we have CD Projeckt at least. I am also having a look at older games I didn't play. Gothic, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Morrowind (yes I have recently started playing it).

 

I think at some point, people will be bored with shiny stuff and look for actual content. It has an evolutionary process of it's own. For better or for the worse? Time will tell.

[wulfgear09]

I think beth needs to save the money they spend on voice actors (stars) and maybe buy a writer

[afa]

Eh, sounds crazy but I rather Bethesda keep their "story" non intrusive and simple.

If I want a game with deep engrossing story line there are other games out there where I can get that fix, but TES to me is about what kind of stuff mods can bring, it isn't just about texture, models, or gameplay, Bethesda open world games is one of the very few where mods can tell their own story or add their own flavor onto the world. That is more interesting than anything else Bethesda can reasonably put in on their own.

[Guest]

TES 3 Morrowind.  Take a look at that games writing and story.  Just the dialogue alone when talking to npc's and npc's interacting with each other is 10 times better then whats in Oblivion and Skyrim. 

 

lol

 

With the exception of a few characters, the vast majority of NPCs had the same copy-and-pasted dialogue options with the same copy-and-pasted text responses.

 

Also, (correct me if I am wrong, because much time has passed since I have played MW) NPCs don't stop and interact with one another like they do in OB and SK.

[Istill]

 

TES 3 Morrowind.  Take a look at that games writing and story.  Just the dialogue alone when talking to npc's and npc's interacting with each other is 10 times better then whats in Oblivion and Skyrim. 

 

lol

 

With the exception of a few characters, the vast majority of NPCs had the same copy-and-pasted dialogue options with the same copy-and-pasted text responses.

 

Also, (correct me if I am wrong, because much time has passed since I have played MW) NPCs don't stop and interact with one another like they do in OB and SK.

 

 

Yea, you got right but still. Dialogues wasnt the best thing either but you are refering mostly to redshirts like towns people who dont have any dialog in skyrim at all, but okay. Thats not the problem.

 

The problem is like somebody said earlier -> Story is not engaging at all. I mean it wasnt engaging in morrowind at start... And that was good, it didint forced you to go have fun with dragons... Or GO WITH THIS AMULET OR EVERYTHING IS LOST!

Caius just said... Have this gold, buy yourself something shiny... Join guild, explore... And then come for work.

That was FUN, YOU ACTUALY GOT not  artificialy made STOP at main quest, pause you can use...

Skyrim, Oblivion... They dont have such point. Always when i start im getting the idea i have to help those people becouse they want me to help them kill dragons...[not that i am immersed, couse im not]

Thing is, Morrowind gave us many points where we just could wait this, rest games give us this too but... Its to artificial, its not freedom. I mean i can not talk with balgruf about dragon but... why should i not? he should get the info. But then i have to go to bleakfals as fast as i can -.- And then dragon... Then greybeards... Its just too much. With mods like requiem its even more disturbed becouse i just cannot kill dragon at lvl 5 -.-.

Still Half od Morrowind main quest could be skipped if you were simply... Famous and got reputation. That was nice. And still, many spells, and freeedom again, you want this op sword? Yea why not, make it. In skyrim everything is lvled so if you can kill dragon at lvl 5... You propably will have problem at lvl 30 couse you lvled alchemy... Irony. No character progression, same stuff in oblivion. IN morrowind, well there was scalling too, but not that much, and still there were always enemies that could kill you, even on higher lvles. Especialy i remember one, from Firemount island DLC made by beth, Lich there was just like Poof, dunno, fully equipped with artifacts 45 lvled nerevarine with nearly all stats at 100 couldnt hurt him,. That was enemy... And you realy start thinking... How to beat that guy. And you are leveling... training.

 

In skyrim you arent even convinced to exploring, i mean whats the point with all these laughable artifacts rly? No one is realy useful, period.

the problem is even if you with mods make the game like morrowind in terms of scalling, difficulty, something wont be right still. And what is that... The game itself. The game is just made to being leveled. Word is build around it. Unlike morrowind. Even random quest system expanded by mods is build around that. You knew whole world in about 10-15 quests, just did not wander to EVERY cave...

 

But back to the point. Quests... I mean Morrowind did good job in misc quests, wild quests, and quest by locations. Good job rly. Read on uesp.

Oblivion... Guild, i mean they got realy nice writer for DB,TG,FG, hell even mages guild was nice little iritating but... nice. Best quest from oblivion where you are locked in a house full of targets... Every kill got alternative way, and so many alternatives in nearly all quests in the guild, same with TG.

Or misc quests like with that tavern in the ship.

 

In skyrim there are no such quests... I mean Sindik one is nice... But its deadric, so im not counting that. Deadric quests nearly always are nice.

Morrowind got some phylosophy about it, all about nerevar, temple temple quests, cult of the nine, the more you playerd the more you didint wanted to kill main antagonist, that was something special about it. I mean not every time you are in grey area that is MADE RIGHT.

Unlike skyrim civil war where you just have to pick BLUE OR RED. West or East. Nothing else.I know this have thing under it, and i like expanding the dialog about cw questline and afterwards but its just not made right.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fallout 4, well, dialog is bad becouse it got 4 answers that are just stupid... Do i realy have to mod to have normal dialog? Its not mass effect WHERE IT WORKS. Story is ripoff from F3 just backwards...

-----------------------------

f3 well, same problem like with oblivion. But this time, why should i not look for my father? I better go find him [END MAIN QUEST] dont want to play more... No point. End of story. Same with 4 basicly.

-------------------------------------------

And... In the end i will say one more thing... Do we realy have to see TES to end like Minecraft? I mean in minecraft you are told[not directly] that you can do whatever you want, how you want, no story at all. And skyrim and rest of beth games counting from oblivion are trying to tell us the same thing with the exception of making bad quests and bad story as a cover for it.. This dont work at all.

[Guest]

F4 crosses some sort of rp rubicon for me. I don't know how Bethesda come back from it. So as weak as TES lore and storytelling might be, it's the Fallout franchise that saw the emphatic decline and fall. 

[afa]

Everything that is pointed as "better" in morrowind than the later games I can easily turn it into negative and how it is worse than the later titles. Which is why to create a so called "better" or return to form TES game is an almost impossible task.

[Guest]

 

The problem is like somebody said earlier -> Story is not engaging at all. I mean it wasnt engaging in morrowind at start... And that was good, it didint forced you to go have fun with dragons... Or GO WITH THIS AMULET OR EVERYTHING IS LOST!

Caius just said... Have this gold, buy yourself something shiny... Join guild, explore... And then come for work.

That was FUN, YOU ACTUALY GOT not  artificialy made STOP at main quest, pause you can use...

Skyrim, Oblivion... They dont have such point. Always when i start im getting the idea i have to help those people becouse they want me to help them kill dragons...[not that i am immersed, couse im not]

 

 

I disagree with your assertion that Skyrim was more "on-the-rails" than Morrowind.  

 

One can avoid the MQ entirely once the player steps out of Helgen.  Hadvar and Ralof will even suggest that they and the PC go their separate ways. 

 

Meanwhile in MW, the PC, who was already on an assignment for the Emperor, is told by Azura that he or she has been chosen to do her bidding before the game even starts.

[Istill]

 

 

The problem is like somebody said earlier -> Story is not engaging at all. I mean it wasnt engaging in morrowind at start... And that was good, it didint forced you to go have fun with dragons... Or GO WITH THIS AMULET OR EVERYTHING IS LOST!

Caius just said... Have this gold, buy yourself something shiny... Join guild, explore... And then come for work.

That was FUN, YOU ACTUALY GOT not  artificialy made STOP at main quest, pause you can use...

Skyrim, Oblivion... They dont have such point. Always when i start im getting the idea i have to help those people becouse they want me to help them kill dragons...[not that i am immersed, couse im not]

 

 

I disagree with your assertion that Skyrim was more "on-the-rails" than Morrowind.  

 

One can avoid the MQ entirely once the player steps out of Helgen.  Hadvar and Ralof will even suggest that they and the PC go their separate ways. 

 

Meanwhile in MW, the PC, who was already on an assignment for the Emperor, is told by Azura that he or she has been chosen to do her bidding before the game even starts.

 

 

Of course, but look. You dont know what you have to do, only thing you are said to do is to go to caius, and then do what you want.

 

But still i know that you might think its not on the rails with hadvar telling you to go separate. But... Well there is dragon flying... Maybe we realy should go warn these people? Its a little tension to do this.

 

Regardless, once you start, you have to end as fast as you can.

 

 

Everything that is pointed as "better" in morrowind than the later games I can easily turn it into negative and how it is worse than the later titles. Which is why to create a so called "better" or return to form TES game is an almost impossible task.

 

 

I can do the same thing. Look, the problem with skyrim is that this game looks very bland without mods, is just nearly unplayable and booooring. I mean i dont have to had 200 mods to make it fun. Realy FEW enchancers and you are good to go with Morrowind.

 

Dont even say a thing about oblivion, becouse EVERYTHING about oblivion is just BAD excluding GUILDS, which are best in the series.

 

[Coopervane]

Eh, sounds crazy but I rather Bethesda keep their "story" non intrusive and simple.

 

Not at all.

 

 

Bethesda just doesen't write good stories. Morrowind was their best effort i'd say, but the people who made that effort left the company ages ago, so we won't be seeing a return to that style.

 

So why should we want heavilly story-focused games from them? They are not good at it, so that's never going to end well.

 

 

The thing Bethesda does well is create a big world with lots of fluff in it to do. On it's own it's nothing all that special, but then the modders enter the picture, and suddenly you have games where the player can roleplay all sorts of characters with all sorts of goals, using the mods appropriate for the task. That's the appeal of these games, that's why people end up playing them for thousands of houers despite them not beeing great games on their own.

 

Trying to add more story focus to the formula will only end up limiting how moddable they are, all in service to a story that won't be good anyway, because Bethesda are terrible at story.

 

 

This is the problem with Fo4, you get to play mommy or daddy, and you have to wander around asking "have you seen my baby?", because the story demands it. But the story is not good, and all it's given us is a game that is way harder to mod, and the options for player engagement and roleplay are badly hampered by the premise. Was that a good tradeoff? I certainly don't think so, and i don't belive people will end up playing Fo4 for nearly as long as they played Skyrim as a result.

[Guest]

I strongly disagree with the statements here devaluing the value of the MQ in Bethesda's open-world games.

 

What Bethesda must remember going forward is that the story comes first.  The story is what brings everything together.  The story sets the tone for the world they are building.  The story is what drives the characters, whether they be major or minor, to act the way they do.  Even if someone opts to skip the MQ, the themes stemming from it should be felt throughout in order to give the world a sense of character.  If a game lacks a strong element with which to bind everything together, you're going to end up with something either boring or disjointed.

 

When Bethesda adheres to this principle, you get a product like Morrowind, which we can all agree shines brighter than OB and SK in the world-building department.  The developers did an excellent job showing us how much of an impact the themes and characters in the MQ had and continue to have on Dunmeri culture and society in the late 3rd Era.  Some side quests for the guilds have the player hunt down and destroy Sixth House cells, which reminds the player of the danger that Dagoth Ur poses even if the PC does not become Nerevarine, just as an example.

 

Skyrim, on the contrary, is what what happens when the core element is either lacking or extremely weak.  For starters, the game can't decide whether Alduin's return or the Civil War is the more important crisis.  But most importantly, the events and themes behind the MQ were undeveloped, such as Nordic Religion and the Dragon War.  As a result, the game is over-brimming with generic filler quests which do nothing almost towards fleshing out the culture and society of Skyrim.

 

[myuhinny]

I liked oblivion and still play it as well as fallout 3 and NV playing skyrim atm haven't wasted money on fallout 4 yet as I'm waiting for it to hit the bargain bin before I do. 

[afa]

 

Eh, sounds crazy but I rather Bethesda keep their "story" non intrusive and simple.

 

Not at all.

 

 

Bethesda just doesen't write good stories. Morrowind was their best effort i'd say, but the people who made that effort left the company ages ago, so we won't be seeing a return to that style.

 

So why should we want heavilly story-focused games from them? They are not good at it, so that's never going to end well.

 

 

The thing Bethesda does well is create a big world with lots of fluff in it to do. On it's own it's nothing all that special, but then the modders enter the picture, and suddenly you have games where the player can roleplay all sorts of characters with all sorts of goals, using the mods appropriate for the task. That's the appeal of these games, that's why people end up playing them for thousands of houers despite them not beeing great games on their own.

 

Trying to add more story focus to the formula will only end up limiting how moddable they are, all in service to a story that won't be good anyway, because Bethesda are terrible at story.

 

 

This is the problem with Fo4, you get to play mommy or daddy, and you have to wander around asking "have you seen my baby?", because the story demands it. But the story is not good, and all it's given us is a game that is way harder to mod, and the options for player engagement and roleplay are badly hampered by the premise. Was that a good tradeoff? I certainly don't think so, and i don't belive people will end up playing Fo4 for nearly as long as they played Skyrim as a result.

 

Don't think we have any disagreement here that is exactly what I want in a bethesda open world game.

 

I strongly disagree with the statements here devaluing the value of the MQ in Bethesda's open-world games.

 

What Bethesda must remember going forward is that the story comes first.  The story is what brings everything together.  The story sets the tone for the world they are building.  The story is what drives the characters, whether they be major or minor, to act the way they do.  Even if someone opts to skip the MQ, the themes stemming from it should be felt throughout in order to give the world a sense of character.  If a game lacks a strong element with which to bind everything together, you're going to end up with something either boring or disjointed.

 

When Bethesda adheres to this principle, you get a product like Morrowind, which we can all agree shines brighter than OB and SK in the world-building department.  The developers did an excellent job showing us how much of an impact the themes and characters in the MQ had and continue to have on Dunmeri culture and society in the late 3rd Era.  Some side quests for the guilds have the player hunt down and destroy Sixth House cells, which reminds the player of the danger that Dagoth Ur poses even if the PC does not become Nerevarine, just as an example.

 

Skyrim, on the contrary, is what what happens when the core element is either lacking or extremely weak.  For starters, the game can't decide whether Alduin's return or the Civil War is the more important crisis.  But most importantly, the events and themes behind the MQ were undeveloped, such as Nordic Religion and the Dragon War.  As a result, the game is over-brimming with generic filler quests which do nothing almost towards fleshing out the culture and society of Skyrim.

The issue is they aren't able to do it in a satisfying manner, even if I personally find Oblivion core story more interesting while having the worst world building of the three and MW to have the more interesting physical world, I still don't find either story to be particularly outstanding among other games out there. So they are stuck with a piece of mediocre content that occasionally forces its way into an open and potentially interesting world sometimes blocking or getting in the way of what could have been. A main quest is good, but the challenge is not to make the main quest epic, but rather one that meshes into the world, but at the same time know when to get out of the way when needed. In some twisted outcome, them not doing something might be better off than actually shoehorn in lackluster content especially in a mod driven game.

Also I don't consider story, tone, atmosphere, or overall "feel" of the game the same thing, they overlap sometimes for sure, but not necessarily the same, and between the three titles I think they all have ups and down in each of the different department for one reason or another.

[Guest]

 

The issue is they aren't able to do it in a satisfying manner, even if I personally find Oblivion core story more interesting while having the worst world building of the three and MW to have the more interesting physical world, I still don't find either story to be particularly outstanding among other games out there. So they are stuck with a piece of mediocre content that occasionally forces its way into an open and potentially interesting world sometimes blocking or getting in the way of what could have been. A main quest is good, but the challenge is not to make the main quest epic, but rather one that meshes into the world, but at the same time know when to get out of the way when needed. 

 

You have missed the point entirely.  I am not arguing that the MQ be obtrusive.  Rather, the themes and conflicts within the main story should play a major role in building the world.  Quests and such . . .

 

In some twisted outcome, them not doing something might be better off than actually shoehorn in lackluster content 

 

That's not what TES is about.

 

"Each event is proceeded by prophecy.  But without the hero, there is no event."

 

Besides, even if it were objectively true that MQ is lacklaster (Disclaimer: I do believe so.), there is no reason why Bethesda should not attempt to improve upon their shortcomings in future titles.

 

 especially in a mod-driven game.

 

Let me remind you that we all have different standards when it comes to modding.  

 

Some of us, like yours truly, play Skyrim because we like the lore, stories, and world of TES.  We install mods to enhance the game we already like.  

 

Others don't care for that and instead turn it into a full-blown hentai game, which is completely acceptable.  There are even people who prefer to play the game without mods. 

 

Thus, the assertion that the MQ should not matter because SK is a "mod-driven game" is quite empty since tastes and preferences are subjective.