dev1antM1nd Posted April 11, 2016 Posted April 11, 2016 I agree with you completely on this (not to focusing on the buffs/debuffs) Even when you get the time to work on that, that should be an add-on so it's up to people to decide whether to use it or not. The last thing you want (or we want) is to have a bloated framework mod that bundles everything together. It's great that you've had this in mind and define the extra as satellite mods (like devious consequences) I have a bit different intent in my mind - I would like to create what is basically a "stats" system that will serve as a "tool" for other mods. Creating buffs/debuffs based on those stats is a valid idea, but as I said before - it is relatively low in my priorities list. For now I prefer to concentrate first on getting stats and their hooks right. That said, when I will start writing integrations into other mods, I will take a look at existing dependencies, and consider making them "soft dependencies" if those mods allow that.
Wandering_Mania Posted April 11, 2016 Posted April 11, 2016 Not exactly sure if this error is a part of this mod but here it is any way. I seem to be seeing a lot of "datt" error spam in my logs and have never seen that code line before so I think it may be from this one. [04/11/2016 - 11:23:47AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:47AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: FNIS Sexy Move Actor: Jonna group: _mt base: 1 number: 6 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] Scan cell for Followers total 0 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] ScanCellForFollower exits with 0 female followers [04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] No Sex Slaves or WantsCellScans = False, no sense in scanning the cell [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] -- External shape change detected [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast change 2.000000 from 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt change 2.000000 from 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Belly change 2.000000 from 1.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Schlong change 1.000000 from 1.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Updating shape on external detection. [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] <--- Reading shape state from storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] :::: SexLab Hormones: Sync tint mask - 6 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Orig color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Target color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Offsets - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] ColorMod - 0.125000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] New color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] NumTintsByType: 1 - type: 6 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Layer to change: 0 - setAll: False [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Layer : 0 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Refreshing body shape values [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast Old: 2.000000 New: 2.000000 Min: 0.800000 - Max: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast New: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt Old: 2.000000 New: 2.000000 Min: 0.900000 - Max: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt New: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Schlong Old: 1.000000 New: 1.000000 Min: 0.900000 - Max: 1.200000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Schlong New: 1.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] ---> Writing Hormones state to storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] ---> Writing shape state to storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Writing color state to storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Applying body changes [04/11/2016 - 11:23:56AM] [sLH] QueueNiNodeUpdate [04/11/2016 - 11:23:59AM] VM is freezing... [04/11/2016 - 11:23:59AM] VM is frozen [04/11/2016 - 11:24:00AM] Saving game... [04/11/2016 - 11:24:48AM] VM is thawing... [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:01AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:01AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 When it crashed my game my char started to do a VTOL takeoff with her feet as the "propellers". It was one strange sight suffice to say. Hmm.. haven't seen this one before; I will take a look. Where were your character when this happened? Does this sort of log spam happen in more "mainstream" locations? such as Riverwood, Whiterun? I had just used a teleport spell (from the leveler's tower mod) to travel to the Morthal Inn. I saved then that popped up. I had never seen that happen before from any prior uses (I detest fast travel and with my mage chars this is more immersive). In fact that was the only time it has ever happened. It was what made me check the log in the first place, as I have never seen it happen before. The [sLH] lines are from SSL Hormones and normal but that datt stuff I have never seen before and this is the only mod I have added lately so I thought it would be from this one.
dev1antM1nd Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 After thinking about your system a bit more, I came up with following suggestion: Firstly, I do not see a reason to keep Self-Esteem and Obedience if you already have Pride and Submissiveness (what exactly is the difference there anyway?). Both are too similiar to the other stat, which makes it needlessly confusing. I agree it's better to keep the attributes less complicated to avoid confusions. I see that self-esteem and pride both get affected in the similar fashion in many cases. That suggests they share some common qualities and are similar in many respects. Also, something you might want to consider: Add a "probability/likeability/resistance" (can't think of a better word) for each trait, that the player can set at the beginning. This value will then change the way specific traits increase/decrease. I.E. a player can choose to be highly resistant to masochism, but vulnerable to exhibitionism. So his character will hardly become a masochistic character, but can become an exhibitionist pretty easily. Those values should be permanent, so they won't change unless the player does so himself in the options. Great idea. I think this is actually crucial. Everyone has different fetish and responds to things differently. For example, for those who get turned on by humiliation, the humiliation should be a very effective way to make them submissive and compliant and it should increase the arousal level tremendously. By the same token, if pain only causes pain and misery to someone, it would actually decrease the arousal level. Given that this is a framework and one of the most important ones in my humble opinion, it's natural to provide these configurable settings and take them into consideration in the mod. I can see this mod will be the one that finally fills the emptiness and can make us really feel the mental struggle.
Green Tryst Posted April 13, 2016 Posted April 13, 2016 A suggestion for MCM options: I run Immersive Patrols, CWO, OBIS, and Random Encounters. The system handled the NPC check (I set it preemptively to 30 seconds) for the big Imperial v. Stormcloak fight that always seems to take place right outside Haermar's Shame, but I am pretty sure if Papyrus could talk, it would have been cursing me out. Any chance of an MCM option to restrict the NPC check's to registered NPCs, followers, and/or unique NPCS? Other than that, love the direction this is taking.
dev1antM1nd Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right?While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(),I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code.I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon.
m.skynet Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 Sexlab's skills stats I think are a one way path which could only go up, it might be reasonable, but in the long term not quite useful since everyone eventually reaches the highest level. I think Purity flip flops depending on what kind sex, dirty or not dirty, it doesn't change if character doesn't have sex, so a dirty character who doesn't have sex for a long time is still a dirty character, but if character have lots of "pure" sex (could be luck of the draw base on animation) the character would be consider pure. I am aware of that; Sexlab stats have only minor effect on the scheme of things, and I think it adds to a sense of "progression". Also, some mods do not choose randomly sex animation types (I know majority select randomly), so purity and oral/vaginal/anal skills sometimes do matter. How Sexlab stats are used? Purity - during PC's OrgasmEnd event, purity is normalized to be between [-6,6] and can increase/decrease willpower debuff for orgasms During consensual animations, and if player's SoulState is not "Forced Slave", having oral/vaginal/anal skill > 0 will cause small increase in self-esteem Hey guys. I have a few questions at the mod author: Does the Soul State represent your relationship with a specific actor, or does it represent your character's overall mental state? I am currently working on rewriting the scripts for Devious Devices in a more unified and immersive way. One of my goals is to rewrite all messages into first person (they currently are all in third person). I would like to add support for this script so I can do like different messages (and possibly choices) depending on your devious attribute provided by this mod. I.E. a character that is a obedient sub will be eager to equip such a device on her own, while a forced slave (or rather a character that has experienced such situations before) won't even have the option to equip some devices voluntarily. I still didn't fully grasp the meaning of all those values. In my opinion they are still too similiar to each other and confusing :/ Soul State represents relationship with a specific actor. (Assuming that in case of "Forced Slave" and "Willing Sub" there can be only one master/dom) And, which values are too similar? Yet again I feel I must say, this mod/framework is amazing, and makes me wonder why it wasn't thought of sooner (at least with the amount of time that SSL has been out). I was waiting for this 'update/rewrite' of the mod to add it to my current game (clean save/new game required reasons), but I still think this has some huge potential. Thank you very much Skynet (there is something I never thought I'd say, (sorry was watching Terminator earlier)) for this incredible "must have" addition. Keep up the great work, and innovation. Thanks for your kind words! It is really nice to know that folks enjoy using my mod And... who said SkyNet is a bad guy in the story? It is only doing what it thinks is best for humans... ending all those silly pointless wars in the best way it could To be honest I can sympathize with Skynet's reasons. But that is coming from a Warhammer 40k old codex Necron player. So take it for what you will. Still, keep up the great work. On a side note: I have a minor suggestion. Would it be possible to eliminate (or severely decrease) the amount of will, self esteem, and self confidence gained (from any action that may have an increase) while wearing any DD items? For instance: If you have arm and leg cuffs, a collar, belt, piercings, and plugs. If you win a fight with all that equipped it seems to negate all the "loss" of stats with that one encounter. It's seems the same with quests. Thanks again. Most certainly it is possible - that is the plan; once I iron out couple of bugs for Devious Attributes, the effect of decreasing stat gains while wearing DD items will be one of effects of satellite mod for Devious Devices. I'm not seeing the setting for changing the timer on the trauma or the reset for the trauma anymore. Is it still there? For now the trauma duration is hardcoded to 12 game hours. Likely in the next version I will add MCM setting for it. Trauma level is reset on attributes reset in debug tab in MCM. In the next version I will separate them. There's already an MCM slider, so I guess that doesn't do anything yet? One request: It would be cool if this mod could make extremely high arousal relevant from a rp perspective. Maybe the willpower loss on orgasm, and even on vibrate, could be increased somewhat with arousal? Willpower is already lost on orgasm for PC; (also, it depends on Sexlab purity level which can increase or decrease willpower loss on orgasm - more pure lose more willpower) Also, NPCs lose willpower too, unless they are the aggressor - in that case they gain. On plug vibrate will be a factor for losing willpower too, but in a satellite mod that will deal with devious devices
m.skynet Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 Hey guys. I have a few questions at the mod author: Does the Soul State represent your relationship with a specific actor, or does it represent your character's overall mental state? I am currently working on rewriting the scripts for Devious Devices in a more unified and immersive way. One of my goals is to rewrite all messages into first person (they currently are all in third person). I would like to add support for this script so I can do like different messages (and possibly choices) depending on your devious attribute provided by this mod. I.E. a character that is a obedient sub will be eager to equip such a device on her own, while a forced slave (or rather a character that has experienced such situations before) won't even have the option to equip some devices voluntarily. I still didn't fully grasp the meaning of all those values. In my opinion they are still too similiar to each other and confusing :/ Soul State represents relationship with a specific actor. (Assuming that in case of "Forced Slave" and "Willing Sub" there can be only one master/dom) And, which values are too similar? I.E. Pride and self-esteem is quite similiar. I really do not see a good reason as to why split it into two different values. But that's maybe just me, so don't worry too much about it. If Soul State represents the relationship with only one specific actor, is there something else I could use to determine the overall player's tendency? I really hoped that this mod actually keeps track of the player's personally traits regarding bdsm acts and/or other stuff. But it seems it mainly focus on slave-training to specific actors. Like I said in my initial post, my idea is to have different kind of options when trying to equip devious devices. With the recent update you introduced a sadist value, which might come in use when trying to equip DDs on another actor, but I still can't find a proper for self-equipping items. Submissiveness and Obedience seem to be the two most fitting ones, but they still relate to other actors, rather than the character's personal preferences. That's why I hereby suggest to add a masochism value, similiar to the newly implemented sadistic. It is totally independent to your sadist values, as you theoretically can be sadistic and masochistic at the same time. Like the sadistic value, it increases slightly whenever you exposed to masochistical situations while having a high arousal, or if you willingly obey orders that can be considered masochistic. In fact, I do think we need many more general stats concerning different kind of character traits and fetishes. We currently only have nymphomaniac as well as the new sadistic value. We could also add different values for like anal/vaginal/oral, being bound, when receiving pain and many other fetishes. Like I said, this mod currently focus on the character's mental state as well as it's relationship to specific actors, so this is mostly useful for quest-related stuff. Pride and self esteem do seem similar, yes. The reason they are both around is simple - to make attribute mechanics more immersive and interesting. While pride can relatively rapidly go up and down, self-esteem is not won back so easily. Also, if other mods will be using attribute values, it will give mod authors more options to choose from (more immersive RP options) I added soul-state to indicate the change in status of PC - so the changes in attributes would work bit different, depending on the value of soul-state. For example, PC who is free and complies with a demand/request/order would have their pride decreased. PC who is a willing sub and complies with a demand/request/order would have their pride increased (something like "I am proud because I serve my master") Regarding masochism : it is already there. Sadism was actually implemented to compliment already existing masochism value. In addition to main attributes (willpower, pride etc.) there are also "personality" attributes : Humiliation Lover, Masochist, Sadist, Exhibitionist and Nymphomaniac. Right now, personality attributes are used in some calculations and have some rudimentary events to make them go up. Probably I will be adding more events to change them later on. Alright, my bad. I did check your github docs, but for whatever reason, I really didn't see those values. So we currently have the following values: Humiliation Lover Exhibitionist Masochist Nymphomaniac and sadist But it seems that there are no documents on what kind of magnitute those values can have. Are those integers with or without negative numbers? Do they start at 0, or somewhere in the "middle"? Is there a maximum value they can have, and if yes, which could it be? Or are those just bools that have only two states? I can't seem to find any documentation of how exactly I should handle the values. Like I said before, my idea would be to have 3 different situations on when you equip devices (similiar to your soul states). One for being neutral (you can equip the devices and lock them properly, but the character is still hesitating a bit), one for being masochistic (lovingly going to equip the device) and one for being against them (you can't equip them). I now know how I could check the requirements for the first two situations, but depending on your answer to my question above, there might not be a proper value in order to check if the character is totally against wearing such devices. My best bet would be to go for a mix of pride and self esteem, but that still doesn't go right. Soul state would be the perfect way to check all three conditions, but as you mentioned before, it only relates to a specific actor. In fact, I do think that "soul state" is a wholesome misleading term, as it indicates the general personal state of the character. Actually, I don't even know if it makes that much sense for it to be related to a specific actor in the first place. Is it possible to have different/multiple soul states related to different actors? If yes, is there any kind of relation between those soul states, or do they have any effect on each other? I.E. is it possible to be a willing sub to one, but a forced slave to another one? I am not too sure about this myself yet, as I still don't fully understand how exactly your mod works and how all those values relate to each other. But I think it might be a good idea to have a soul state system, that indicates your characters general state concerning enslavement. I.E. you might be a nymphomaniac and masochist, but you still still despise being a slave. It could be a calculated value similiar to your current soul state system, or it could be a trait that the player can set in the options and could mostly be used to do a quick and easy check for situations that are still "new" to the character. Like to have a starting point for a completely new master or situations that don't relate to specific actors and/or are decisions entirely made by the character, without the influence of someone else (like with putting on devious devices on our your own free will). About fetish attribute values (Masochist, Exhibitionist.. ) Yes, you are right, there is no documentation for what values they can have. I will fix that when I come to updating documentation. (For now, I want to get out bug-fixed version of Devious Attributes, do rewrite of existing features of Devious Consequences mod and then start updating documentation) Those values are integeres, ranged 0 .. 100. Regarding soul state... as I think of it, "soul state" might be a bit misleading name, yes. Currently it is implemented as single value, so it is not possible to assign soul-states in relation to different NPCs; thought it might be a good idea to change that, since one can be a sub to someone and a master to someone else (mid tier management sub/slave or something ) About PC equipping willingly devious device - I think that in terms of role-playing, the player that controls the PC is essentially the one who is making the decision whether PC is against wearing devices or not; my mod intent is to bring consequences to decisions that a player can make for the PC. Thus, I am not sure that forcing a certain decision based on stats is a good idea; though I do like the notion of calculating a general attitude of PC towards such things - such stat would allow more granular "consequences" to happen. Currently, the closest attribute to what you are talking about I think is "obedience" - since it is intended to signify conditioning to obey. Big picture about how Devious Attributes work: All attributes exception soul-state are implemented as faction ranks, one faction per attribute; all attributes have values ranged 0 .. 100 (I use faction because that is the most robust way to track values per NPC/PC) Attributes for the most part are not related to each other; the exception is submissiveness which is calculated from the values of pride and self-esteem (and re-calculated whenever one of the changes) NPC attribute tracking is implemented by cell change tracking and cloak spell that is active once in 15 sec (default) It could also go along the lines with the DD states of "Accustomed Slave" and "Experienced Slave". So if it was your first time equipping some device yourself it has a high chance of failing to equip. That would be using the same script popup instead of seeing "you lock the boots on with a soft click", it pops up with "You can not bring yourself to lock this item on". I like the idea - will need to think how to implement this properly
m.skynet Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 It could also go along the lines with the DD states of "Accustomed Slave" and "Experienced Slave". So if it was your first time equipping some device yourself it has a high chance of failing to equip. That would be using the same script popup instead of seeing "you lock the boots on with a soft click", it pops up with "You can not bring yourself to lock this item on". Yeah something similiar. After all, just because you are an experienced slave, doesn't mean that you do enjoy being one. But if you are in a forced slave status or something similiar, you won't have the option to put it on at all. Instead the messages are about how you are too scared to put it on, that you do not want to relieve those memories again or that noone of a sound mind would ever wear such a thing. While being in a "neutral" state you might be ready to put it on, but depending on other stuff (I.E. pride) you won't be able to close specific locks (I.E. the yoke will have three locks, one for each arm and one on the neck. You will be able to open the locks on the arms by yourself with a key, but once the lock on the neck is closed, you WILL need to ask someone else for help, which obviously has a chance of not ending too well) I always wondered how a PC can lock a yoke on himself/herself without any help from others . Are you talking about changing locking semantics of a device that could be hard to lock, such as a yoke? Also I like the idea that pride can prevent locking a device voluntarily.. I will see what I can do in the consequences mod
m.skynet Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 I don't think it would make sense to have the probability of success for equipping devices bound to specific values/experience. After all, I don't think that anyone would have a problem to put on a chastity belt on his/her own (chastity belt for man?). There are only a very few devices where such a feature would make sense, such as arm restricting devices. Thought I don't think it's worth the effort to create a depency for another mod, just for this. The probability of success based on willingness to do so, not based of the ability to do so. I don't think you fully understand what I am talking about. Plus the DD plugin hook already has the dependency. Hmm.. I am thinking about keeping count for how many times armbinders, yokes, harnesses and shackles were equipped and un-equipped, and maybe have a probability to break key/fail to take off dependent on how many times it was equipped/unequipped (more times equipped/unequipped --> more familiarity with straps and locks, easier to take off) Not exactly sure if this error is a part of this mod but here it is any way. I seem to be seeing a lot of "datt" error spam in my logs and have never seen that code line before so I think it may be from this one. [04/11/2016 - 11:23:47AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:47AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: FNIS Sexy Move Actor: Jonna group: _mt base: 1 number: 6 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] Scan cell for Followers total 0 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] ScanCellForFollower exits with 0 female followers [04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] No Sex Slaves or WantsCellScans = False, no sense in scanning the cell [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] -- External shape change detected [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast change 2.000000 from 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt change 2.000000 from 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Belly change 2.000000 from 1.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Schlong change 1.000000 from 1.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Updating shape on external detection. [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] <--- Reading shape state from storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] :::: SexLab Hormones: Sync tint mask - 6 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Orig color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Target color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Offsets - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] ColorMod - 0.125000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] New color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] NumTintsByType: 1 - type: 6 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Layer to change: 0 - setAll: False [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Layer : 0 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Refreshing body shape values [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast Old: 2.000000 New: 2.000000 Min: 0.800000 - Max: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast New: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt Old: 2.000000 New: 2.000000 Min: 0.900000 - Max: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt New: 2.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Schlong Old: 1.000000 New: 1.000000 Min: 0.900000 - Max: 1.200000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Schlong New: 1.000000 [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] ---> Writing Hormones state to storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] ---> Writing shape state to storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Writing color state to storage [04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Applying body changes [04/11/2016 - 11:23:56AM] [sLH] QueueNiNodeUpdate [04/11/2016 - 11:23:59AM] VM is freezing... [04/11/2016 - 11:23:59AM] VM is frozen [04/11/2016 - 11:24:00AM] Saving game... [04/11/2016 - 11:24:48AM] VM is thawing... [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:01AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19 [04/11/2016 - 11:25:01AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type stack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 When it crashed my game my char started to do a VTOL takeoff with her feet as the "propellers". It was one strange sight suffice to say. Hmm.. haven't seen this one before; I will take a look. Where were your character when this happened? Does this sort of log spam happen in more "mainstream" locations? such as Riverwood, Whiterun? I had just used a teleport spell (from the leveler's tower mod) to travel to the Morthal Inn. I saved then that popped up. I had never seen that happen before from any prior uses (I detest fast travel and with my mage chars this is more immersive). In fact that was the only time it has ever happened. It was what made me check the log in the first place, as I have never seen it happen before. The [sLH] lines are from SSL Hormones and normal but that datt stuff I have never seen before and this is the only mod I have added lately so I thought it would be from this one. I think I found the culprit for this one( "datt" prefix is indeed from my code, I think it is race condition in ActiveMagicEffect related to NPC tracking - I am registering for event there, and on dispel of the magic effect, Papyrus VM seems to aggressively purge those objects, and it looks like this error happens when there is incoming event to the magic effect which was already destroyed) Did you have alot of NPCs in "Tracked NPCs" section just before you teleported? After thinking about your system a bit more, I came up with following suggestion: Firstly, I do not see a reason to keep Self-Esteem and Obedience if you already have Pride and Submissiveness (what exactly is the difference there anyway?). Both are too similiar to the other stat, which makes it needlessly confusing. I agree it's better to keep the attributes less complicated to avoid confusions. I see that self-esteem and pride both get affected in the similar fashion in many cases. That suggests they share some common qualities and are similar in many respects. Also, something you might want to consider: Add a "probability/likeability/resistance" (can't think of a better word) for each trait, that the player can set at the beginning. This value will then change the way specific traits increase/decrease. I.E. a player can choose to be highly resistant to masochism, but vulnerable to exhibitionism. So his character will hardly become a masochistic character, but can become an exhibitionist pretty easily. Those values should be permanent, so they won't change unless the player does so himself in the options. Great idea. I think this is actually crucial. Everyone has different fetish and responds to things differently. For example, for those who get turned on by humiliation, the humiliation should be a very effective way to make them submissive and compliant and it should increase the arousal level tremendously. By the same token, if pain only causes pain and misery to someone, it would actually decrease the arousal level. Given that this is a framework and one of the most important ones in my humble opinion, it's natural to provide these configurable settings and take them into consideration in the mod. I can see this mod will be the one that finally fills the emptiness and can make us really feel the mental struggle. Great idea - setting "resistances" to the fetish attributes. I will think how to implement those --> included in the TODO list A suggestion for MCM options: I run Immersive Patrols, CWO, OBIS, and Random Encounters. The system handled the NPC check (I set it preemptively to 30 seconds) for the big Imperial v. Stormcloak fight that always seems to take place right outside Haermar's Shame, but I am pretty sure if Papyrus could talk, it would have been cursing me out. Any chance of an MCM option to restrict the NPC check's to registered NPCs, followers, and/or unique NPCS? Other than that, love the direction this is taking. I've tried to restrict it to uniquely named NPCs already, but me being bit of a noob in Papyrus scripting there seem to be strange edge cases happening. I will see how I can add options to restrict it further
m.skynet Posted April 14, 2016 Author Posted April 14, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right? While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(), I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code. I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon. First of all thanks One of the reasons I did recently a rewrite is because I didn't like the quality of code I had, and being kind of control freak, just had to rewrite it. Attributes are implemented as faction ranks, so they can be tracked for both PC and NPCs. About their role - they represent individual, "internal" traits and state of mind of each character. Take willpower for example: In the "player choice" system, willpower is the ability of PC to say "no" - the more willpower PC has, the more decisively the PC can say "no" to an order/request. Each time saying "no" has a price in terms of willpower that decreases PCs willpower. Haven't considered attributes in global scope, but I like the general idea. Since attributes are more about "internal" state of mind, perhaps stuff like "number of dragons slain" will provide bonuses to pride regeneration, or perhaps a certain minimum threshold that pride won't go lower than the threshold. What do you think?
Knaeggchen Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 Hey guys. I have a few questions at the mod author: Does the Soul State represent your relationship with a specific actor, or does it represent your character's overall mental state? I am currently working on rewriting the scripts for Devious Devices in a more unified and immersive way. One of my goals is to rewrite all messages into first person (they currently are all in third person). I would like to add support for this script so I can do like different messages (and possibly choices) depending on your devious attribute provided by this mod. I.E. a character that is a obedient sub will be eager to equip such a device on her own, while a forced slave (or rather a character that has experienced such situations before) won't even have the option to equip some devices voluntarily. I still didn't fully grasp the meaning of all those values. In my opinion they are still too similiar to each other and confusing :/ Soul State represents relationship with a specific actor. (Assuming that in case of "Forced Slave" and "Willing Sub" there can be only one master/dom) And, which values are too similar? I.E. Pride and self-esteem is quite similiar. I really do not see a good reason as to why split it into two different values. But that's maybe just me, so don't worry too much about it. If Soul State represents the relationship with only one specific actor, is there something else I could use to determine the overall player's tendency? I really hoped that this mod actually keeps track of the player's personally traits regarding bdsm acts and/or other stuff. But it seems it mainly focus on slave-training to specific actors. Like I said in my initial post, my idea is to have different kind of options when trying to equip devious devices. With the recent update you introduced a sadist value, which might come in use when trying to equip DDs on another actor, but I still can't find a proper for self-equipping items. Submissiveness and Obedience seem to be the two most fitting ones, but they still relate to other actors, rather than the character's personal preferences. That's why I hereby suggest to add a masochism value, similiar to the newly implemented sadistic. It is totally independent to your sadist values, as you theoretically can be sadistic and masochistic at the same time. Like the sadistic value, it increases slightly whenever you exposed to masochistical situations while having a high arousal, or if you willingly obey orders that can be considered masochistic. In fact, I do think we need many more general stats concerning different kind of character traits and fetishes. We currently only have nymphomaniac as well as the new sadistic value. We could also add different values for like anal/vaginal/oral, being bound, when receiving pain and many other fetishes. Like I said, this mod currently focus on the character's mental state as well as it's relationship to specific actors, so this is mostly useful for quest-related stuff. Pride and self esteem do seem similar, yes. The reason they are both around is simple - to make attribute mechanics more immersive and interesting. While pride can relatively rapidly go up and down, self-esteem is not won back so easily. Also, if other mods will be using attribute values, it will give mod authors more options to choose from (more immersive RP options) I added soul-state to indicate the change in status of PC - so the changes in attributes would work bit different, depending on the value of soul-state. For example, PC who is free and complies with a demand/request/order would have their pride decreased. PC who is a willing sub and complies with a demand/request/order would have their pride increased (something like "I am proud because I serve my master") Regarding masochism : it is already there. Sadism was actually implemented to compliment already existing masochism value. In addition to main attributes (willpower, pride etc.) there are also "personality" attributes : Humiliation Lover, Masochist, Sadist, Exhibitionist and Nymphomaniac. Right now, personality attributes are used in some calculations and have some rudimentary events to make them go up. Probably I will be adding more events to change them later on. Alright, my bad. I did check your github docs, but for whatever reason, I really didn't see those values. So we currently have the following values: Humiliation Lover Exhibitionist Masochist Nymphomaniac and sadist But it seems that there are no documents on what kind of magnitute those values can have. Are those integers with or without negative numbers? Do they start at 0, or somewhere in the "middle"? Is there a maximum value they can have, and if yes, which could it be? Or are those just bools that have only two states? I can't seem to find any documentation of how exactly I should handle the values. Like I said before, my idea would be to have 3 different situations on when you equip devices (similiar to your soul states). One for being neutral (you can equip the devices and lock them properly, but the character is still hesitating a bit), one for being masochistic (lovingly going to equip the device) and one for being against them (you can't equip them). I now know how I could check the requirements for the first two situations, but depending on your answer to my question above, there might not be a proper value in order to check if the character is totally against wearing such devices. My best bet would be to go for a mix of pride and self esteem, but that still doesn't go right. Soul state would be the perfect way to check all three conditions, but as you mentioned before, it only relates to a specific actor. In fact, I do think that "soul state" is a wholesome misleading term, as it indicates the general personal state of the character. Actually, I don't even know if it makes that much sense for it to be related to a specific actor in the first place. Is it possible to have different/multiple soul states related to different actors? If yes, is there any kind of relation between those soul states, or do they have any effect on each other? I.E. is it possible to be a willing sub to one, but a forced slave to another one? I am not too sure about this myself yet, as I still don't fully understand how exactly your mod works and how all those values relate to each other. But I think it might be a good idea to have a soul state system, that indicates your characters general state concerning enslavement. I.E. you might be a nymphomaniac and masochist, but you still still despise being a slave. It could be a calculated value similiar to your current soul state system, or it could be a trait that the player can set in the options and could mostly be used to do a quick and easy check for situations that are still "new" to the character. Like to have a starting point for a completely new master or situations that don't relate to specific actors and/or are decisions entirely made by the character, without the influence of someone else (like with putting on devious devices on our your own free will). About fetish attribute values (Masochist, Exhibitionist.. ) Yes, you are right, there is no documentation for what values they can have. I will fix that when I come to updating documentation. (For now, I want to get out bug-fixed version of Devious Attributes, do rewrite of existing features of Devious Consequences mod and then start updating documentation) Those values are integeres, ranged 0 .. 100. Regarding soul state... as I think of it, "soul state" might be a bit misleading name, yes. Currently it is implemented as single value, so it is not possible to assign soul-states in relation to different NPCs; thought it might be a good idea to change that, since one can be a sub to someone and a master to someone else (mid tier management sub/slave or something ) About PC equipping willingly devious device - I think that in terms of role-playing, the player that controls the PC is essentially the one who is making the decision whether PC is against wearing devices or not; my mod intent is to bring consequences to decisions that a player can make for the PC. Thus, I am not sure that forcing a certain decision based on stats is a good idea; though I do like the notion of calculating a general attitude of PC towards such things - such stat would allow more granular "consequences" to happen. Currently, the closest attribute to what you are talking about I think is "obedience" - since it is intended to signify conditioning to obey. Big picture about how Devious Attributes work: All attributes exception soul-state are implemented as faction ranks, one faction per attribute; all attributes have values ranged 0 .. 100 (I use faction because that is the most robust way to track values per NPC/PC) Attributes for the most part are not related to each other; the exception is submissiveness which is calculated from the values of pride and self-esteem (and re-calculated whenever one of the changes) NPC attribute tracking is implemented by cell change tracking and cloak spell that is active once in 15 sec (default) It could also go along the lines with the DD states of "Accustomed Slave" and "Experienced Slave". So if it was your first time equipping some device yourself it has a high chance of failing to equip. That would be using the same script popup instead of seeing "you lock the boots on with a soft click", it pops up with "You can not bring yourself to lock this item on". I like the idea - will need to think how to implement this properly It could also go along the lines with the DD states of "Accustomed Slave" and "Experienced Slave". So if it was your first time equipping some device yourself it has a high chance of failing to equip. That would be using the same script popup instead of seeing "you lock the boots on with a soft click", it pops up with "You can not bring yourself to lock this item on". Yeah something similiar. After all, just because you are an experienced slave, doesn't mean that you do enjoy being one. But if you are in a forced slave status or something similiar, you won't have the option to put it on at all. Instead the messages are about how you are too scared to put it on, that you do not want to relieve those memories again or that noone of a sound mind would ever wear such a thing. While being in a "neutral" state you might be ready to put it on, but depending on other stuff (I.E. pride) you won't be able to close specific locks (I.E. the yoke will have three locks, one for each arm and one on the neck. You will be able to open the locks on the arms by yourself with a key, but once the lock on the neck is closed, you WILL need to ask someone else for help, which obviously has a chance of not ending too well) I always wondered how a PC can lock a yoke on himself/herself without any help from others . Are you talking about changing locking semantics of a device that could be hard to lock, such as a yoke? Also I like the idea that pride can prevent locking a device voluntarily.. I will see what I can do in the consequences mod Since I am still not 100% sure of how I want to things work out, and I still didn't went through every bit of code in devious devices, I am still only working on rewriting the scripts for yokes. I've tried to create a small visualisation with articy draft to show you both the equp and remove menu for yokes. I hope it's not that hard to follow: Each //Struggle will cost about 15% stamina and there is a 5% (up to 10% depending on your arousal) chance for EACH lock to be accidentally closed. That means that even equipping the device might end up with closed locks. If you don't have enough stamina, you won't be able to perform the command that comes with a struggle (I.E. you won't be able to equip the device if you do not have enough stamina) Currently, there is nothing you gain from choosing to struggle, except for the things mentioned above. But I do plan on adding stat changes to devious attribute, once I start with the implemention. I.E. if you struggle it might increase your pride, while decreasing some traits such as masochism or exhibitionist. Of course, this is just a somewhat simplified illustration. There are many more messages to be shown depending on different kind of situations (I.E. if the device is locked, there are 2 different messages depending on if you have a key or not), but most of them will act on the same pattern as shown on those pictures. As of now, there is a 100% success chance when trying to lock your device. And there is no option to close additional locks once you are finished equipping it. I might change that in the future thought. As I have mentioned before, I did plan to add 3 general states concerning the equipment of devices. (One for being a masochist/obedient slave, one for being neutral and one for being a traumatized and resisting slave), that might prevent you from equipping. But some people mentioned that it might be more interesting to rely on specific traits such as pride instead. This idea isn't that bad, so I might go for this instead. I.E. It will weight the character's pride and masochism against each other (maybe in addition with some other traits such as humiliation or exhibitionist) to check wether the character is willing to equip or lock the device. The threshold will be different for each device (a yoke will require more masochism that a plug) If you have any suggestions or ideas, I'm willing to listen to them.
Wandering_Mania Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 I don't think it would make sense to have the probability of success for equipping devices bound to specific values/experience. After all, I don't think that anyone would have a problem to put on a chastity belt on his/her own (chastity belt for man?). There are only a very few devices where such a feature would make sense, such as arm restricting devices. Thought I don't think it's worth the effort to create a depency for another mod, just for this. The probability of success based on willingness to do so, not based of the ability to do so. I don't think you fully understand what I am talking about. Plus the DD plugin hook already has the dependency. Hmm.. I am thinking about keeping count for how many times armbinders, yokes, harnesses and shackles were equipped and un-equipped, and maybe have a probability to break key/fail to take off dependent on how many times it was equipped/unequipped (more times equipped/unequipped --> more familiarity with straps and locks, easier to take off) Not exactly sure if this error is a part of this mod but here it is any way. I seem to be seeing a lot of "datt" error spam in my logs and have never seen that code line before so I think it may be from this one. [04/11/2016 - 11:23:47AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:23:47AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: FNIS Sexy Move Actor: Jonna group: _mt base: 1 number: 6[04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:23:48AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] Scan cell for Followers total 0[04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] ScanCellForFollower exits with 0 female followers[04/11/2016 - 11:23:49AM] No Sex Slaves or WantsCellScans = False, no sense in scanning the cell[04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:23:52AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] -- External shape change detected[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast change 2.000000 from 2.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt change 2.000000 from 2.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Belly change 2.000000 from 1.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Schlong change 1.000000 from 1.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Updating shape on external detection.[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] <--- Reading shape state from storage[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] :::: SexLab Hormones: Sync tint mask - 6[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Orig color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Target color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Offsets - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] ColorMod - 0.125000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] New color - 255 - 145 - 119 - 111[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] NumTintsByType: 1 - type: 6[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Layer to change: 0 - setAll: False[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Layer : 0[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Refreshing body shape values[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast Old: 2.000000 New: 2.000000 Min: 0.800000 - Max: 2.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Breast New: 2.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt Old: 2.000000 New: 2.000000 Min: 0.900000 - Max: 2.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:53AM] [sLH] Butt New: 2.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Schlong Old: 1.000000 New: 1.000000 Min: 0.900000 - Max: 1.200000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Schlong New: 1.000000[04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] ---> Writing Hormones state to storage[04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] ---> Writing shape state to storage[04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Writing color state to storage[04/11/2016 - 11:23:54AM] [sLH] Applying body changes[04/11/2016 - 11:23:56AM] [sLH] QueueNiNodeUpdate[04/11/2016 - 11:23:59AM] VM is freezing...[04/11/2016 - 11:23:59AM] VM is frozen[04/11/2016 - 11:24:00AM] Saving game...[04/11/2016 - 11:24:48AM] VM is thawing...[04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:25:00AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20[04/11/2016 - 11:25:01AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 19[04/11/2016 - 11:25:01AM] Error: Unable to call RegisterForModEvent - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect typestack: [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.RegisterForModEvent() - "<native>" Line ? [None].dattNPCMonitorEffect.OnEffectStart() - "dattNPCMonitorEffect.psc" Line 20 When it crashed my game my char started to do a VTOL takeoff with her feet as the "propellers". It was one strange sight suffice to say. Hmm.. haven't seen this one before; I will take a look. Where were your character when this happened? Does this sort of log spam happen in more "mainstream" locations? such as Riverwood, Whiterun? I had just used a teleport spell (from the leveler's tower mod) to travel to the Morthal Inn. I saved then that popped up. I had never seen that happen before from any prior uses (I detest fast travel and with my mage chars this is more immersive). In fact that was the only time it has ever happened. It was what made me check the log in the first place, as I have never seen it happen before. The [sLH] lines are from SSL Hormones and normal but that datt stuff I have never seen before and this is the only mod I have added lately so I thought it would be from this one. I think I found the culprit for this one( "datt" prefix is indeed from my code, I think it is race condition in ActiveMagicEffect related to NPC tracking - I am registering for event there, and on dispel of the magic effect, Papyrus VM seems to aggressively purge those objects, and it looks like this error happens when there is incoming event to the magic effect which was already destroyed) Did you have alot of NPCs in "Tracked NPCs" section just before you teleported? After thinking about your system a bit more, I came up with following suggestion:Firstly, I do not see a reason to keep Self-Esteem and Obedience if you already have Pride and Submissiveness (what exactly is the difference there anyway?). Both are too similiar to the other stat, which makes it needlessly confusing. I agree it's better to keep the attributes less complicated to avoid confusions. I see that self-esteem and pride both get affected in the similar fashion in many cases. That suggests they share some common qualities and are similar in many respects. Also, something you might want to consider: Add a "probability/likeability/resistance" (can't think of a better word) for each trait, that the player can set at the beginning. This value will then change the way specific traits increase/decrease. I.E. a player can choose to be highly resistant to masochism, but vulnerable to exhibitionism. So his character will hardly become a masochistic character, but can become an exhibitionist pretty easily. Those values should be permanent, so they won't change unless the player does so himself in the options. Great idea. I think this is actually crucial. Everyone has different fetish and responds to things differently. For example, for those who get turned on by humiliation, the humiliation should be a very effective way to make them submissive and compliant and it should increase the arousal level tremendously. By the same token, if pain only causes pain and misery to someone, it would actually decrease the arousal level. Given that this is a framework and one of the most important ones in my humble opinion, it's natural to provide these configurable settings and take them into consideration in the mod. I can see this mod will be the one that finally fills the emptiness and can make us really feel the mental struggle. Great idea - setting "resistances" to the fetish attributes. I will think how to implement those --> included in the TODO list A suggestion for MCM options: I run Immersive Patrols, CWO, OBIS, and Random Encounters. The system handled the NPC check (I set it preemptively to 30 seconds) for the big Imperial v. Stormcloak fight that always seems to take place right outside Haermar's Shame, but I am pretty sure if Papyrus could talk, it would have been cursing me out. Any chance of an MCM option to restrict the NPC check's to registered NPCs, followers, and/or unique NPCS? Other than that, love the direction this is taking. I've tried to restrict it to uniquely named NPCs already, but me being bit of a noob in Papyrus scripting there seem to be strange edge cases happening. I will see how I can add options to restrict it further I think (if I can remember correctly) that I ported from the Falkwreath Inn, so maybe 2 to 4. Narri, Valga, and 1 or 2 NPCs from the "Moonpaths to Elyswere" mod. I'm not sure if it tracks male NPCs as well, if so. Then maybe 10 to 15.
dev1antM1nd Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right? While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(), I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code. I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon. First of all thanks One of the reasons I did recently a rewrite is because I didn't like the quality of code I had, and being kind of control freak, just had to rewrite it. Attributes are implemented as faction ranks, so they can be tracked for both PC and NPCs. About their role - they represent individual, "internal" traits and state of mind of each character. Take willpower for example: In the "player choice" system, willpower is the ability of PC to say "no" - the more willpower PC has, the more decisively the PC can say "no" to an order/request. Each time saying "no" has a price in terms of willpower that decreases PCs willpower. I see. Apparently I misunderstood the attributes earlier. The actor in the function is the owner of the attribute, not whom the PC feels toward. This means the PC and each NPC will have a single value for each attribute, right? So PC's willpower is to be used to determine how easy it is to reject a request from whoever she encounters. This is what I meant about the global scope. A single value of an attribute toward everyone. It makes sense in most occasions. For example, the PC was captured and held in a bandit camp. Being ravaged and punished and left in helpless condition, she naturally has a low willpower to every bandit in the camp. So this single willpower value is used to determine her capability of rejecting anyone's demand in the camp is definitely the right logic. Now look at a different scenario. In the DCL mod, there is a chance (50% by default I think) that when the PC talks to a man, the man may demand sex. The PC can choose to refuse. If so, there ia a chance for several different outcomes. The man may back off, proceed to rape her, or lock her in a chastity belt. Imagine the PC was raped and/or put in bondage by the same man a few times in the past. Naturally it makes sense that her attitude toward him will be much submissive and fearful over time. By the same token, the man would also be bolder if he has dominated the PC several times in the past. So I see there are attributes for PC in the global scope (the one you currently implemented) that is used for the cases like the bandit camp example above. There could also be a set of attributes at one-on-one basis for the 2nd case mentioned above. Especially submissveness could really depend on the target person. That's why there are people who are switch. They are dominant to many subs but feel submissive to some other more dominant people. The PC may be captured by a powerful and devious guild and is broken by them. Her mood toward them could be very submissive and her willpower toward them could be very low. Yet at the same time the PC could be a proud dragonborn in the general public with high self-esteen from all her achievements and high regard earned from those jarls except those few individuals who repeatedly bound her and raped her in their past encounters. Does this make sense to you?
slicksly Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 This mod is definitely interesting, but I've noticed a drastic increase in load time when using it, so I can't use it for my general gameplay. Not being too familiar with the internal workings of modding - could adding a 'light' version which only pays attention to the player character and explicitly picked characters possibly soften this?
Wandering_Mania Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 This mod is definitely interesting, but I've noticed a drastic increase in load time when using it, so I can't use it for my general gameplay. Not being too familiar with the internal workings of modding - could adding a 'light' version which only pays attention to the player character and explicitly picked characters possibly soften this? I agree. It seems like it has some heavy CTD issues as well because of the script load. And those "forced refresh" issued I mention earlier. I move in and out of areas fast and can't be bothered to worry if this is going to want to refresh while I am porting out. Still a good mod, but for now I'd say work on hammering out the kinks with only the player tracked then add NPC support down the line.
Guest Posted April 15, 2016 Posted April 15, 2016 I have to say that I have also been experiencing CTD issues with the update, although I didn't realize the association. I would also like a way to remove NPC tracking, since I never really want to use it anyway and it seems to increase the load.
m.skynet Posted April 16, 2016 Author Posted April 16, 2016 Hey guys. I have a few questions at the mod author: Does the Soul State represent your relationship with a specific actor, or does it represent your character's overall mental state? I am currently working on rewriting the scripts for Devious Devices in a more unified and immersive way. One of my goals is to rewrite all messages into first person (they currently are all in third person). I would like to add support for this script so I can do like different messages (and possibly choices) depending on your devious attribute provided by this mod. I.E. a character that is a obedient sub will be eager to equip such a device on her own, while a forced slave (or rather a character that has experienced such situations before) won't even have the option to equip some devices voluntarily. I still didn't fully grasp the meaning of all those values. In my opinion they are still too similiar to each other and confusing :/ Soul State represents relationship with a specific actor. (Assuming that in case of "Forced Slave" and "Willing Sub" there can be only one master/dom) And, which values are too similar? I.E. Pride and self-esteem is quite similiar. I really do not see a good reason as to why split it into two different values. But that's maybe just me, so don't worry too much about it. If Soul State represents the relationship with only one specific actor, is there something else I could use to determine the overall player's tendency? I really hoped that this mod actually keeps track of the player's personally traits regarding bdsm acts and/or other stuff. But it seems it mainly focus on slave-training to specific actors. Like I said in my initial post, my idea is to have different kind of options when trying to equip devious devices. With the recent update you introduced a sadist value, which might come in use when trying to equip DDs on another actor, but I still can't find a proper for self-equipping items. Submissiveness and Obedience seem to be the two most fitting ones, but they still relate to other actors, rather than the character's personal preferences. That's why I hereby suggest to add a masochism value, similiar to the newly implemented sadistic. It is totally independent to your sadist values, as you theoretically can be sadistic and masochistic at the same time. Like the sadistic value, it increases slightly whenever you exposed to masochistical situations while having a high arousal, or if you willingly obey orders that can be considered masochistic. In fact, I do think we need many more general stats concerning different kind of character traits and fetishes. We currently only have nymphomaniac as well as the new sadistic value. We could also add different values for like anal/vaginal/oral, being bound, when receiving pain and many other fetishes. Like I said, this mod currently focus on the character's mental state as well as it's relationship to specific actors, so this is mostly useful for quest-related stuff. Pride and self esteem do seem similar, yes. The reason they are both around is simple - to make attribute mechanics more immersive and interesting. While pride can relatively rapidly go up and down, self-esteem is not won back so easily. Also, if other mods will be using attribute values, it will give mod authors more options to choose from (more immersive RP options) I added soul-state to indicate the change in status of PC - so the changes in attributes would work bit different, depending on the value of soul-state. For example, PC who is free and complies with a demand/request/order would have their pride decreased. PC who is a willing sub and complies with a demand/request/order would have their pride increased (something like "I am proud because I serve my master") Regarding masochism : it is already there. Sadism was actually implemented to compliment already existing masochism value. In addition to main attributes (willpower, pride etc.) there are also "personality" attributes : Humiliation Lover, Masochist, Sadist, Exhibitionist and Nymphomaniac. Right now, personality attributes are used in some calculations and have some rudimentary events to make them go up. Probably I will be adding more events to change them later on. Alright, my bad. I did check your github docs, but for whatever reason, I really didn't see those values. So we currently have the following values: Humiliation Lover Exhibitionist Masochist Nymphomaniac and sadist But it seems that there are no documents on what kind of magnitute those values can have. Are those integers with or without negative numbers? Do they start at 0, or somewhere in the "middle"? Is there a maximum value they can have, and if yes, which could it be? Or are those just bools that have only two states? I can't seem to find any documentation of how exactly I should handle the values. Like I said before, my idea would be to have 3 different situations on when you equip devices (similiar to your soul states). One for being neutral (you can equip the devices and lock them properly, but the character is still hesitating a bit), one for being masochistic (lovingly going to equip the device) and one for being against them (you can't equip them). I now know how I could check the requirements for the first two situations, but depending on your answer to my question above, there might not be a proper value in order to check if the character is totally against wearing such devices. My best bet would be to go for a mix of pride and self esteem, but that still doesn't go right. Soul state would be the perfect way to check all three conditions, but as you mentioned before, it only relates to a specific actor. In fact, I do think that "soul state" is a wholesome misleading term, as it indicates the general personal state of the character. Actually, I don't even know if it makes that much sense for it to be related to a specific actor in the first place. Is it possible to have different/multiple soul states related to different actors? If yes, is there any kind of relation between those soul states, or do they have any effect on each other? I.E. is it possible to be a willing sub to one, but a forced slave to another one? I am not too sure about this myself yet, as I still don't fully understand how exactly your mod works and how all those values relate to each other. But I think it might be a good idea to have a soul state system, that indicates your characters general state concerning enslavement. I.E. you might be a nymphomaniac and masochist, but you still still despise being a slave. It could be a calculated value similiar to your current soul state system, or it could be a trait that the player can set in the options and could mostly be used to do a quick and easy check for situations that are still "new" to the character. Like to have a starting point for a completely new master or situations that don't relate to specific actors and/or are decisions entirely made by the character, without the influence of someone else (like with putting on devious devices on our your own free will). About fetish attribute values (Masochist, Exhibitionist.. ) Yes, you are right, there is no documentation for what values they can have. I will fix that when I come to updating documentation. (For now, I want to get out bug-fixed version of Devious Attributes, do rewrite of existing features of Devious Consequences mod and then start updating documentation) Those values are integeres, ranged 0 .. 100. Regarding soul state... as I think of it, "soul state" might be a bit misleading name, yes. Currently it is implemented as single value, so it is not possible to assign soul-states in relation to different NPCs; thought it might be a good idea to change that, since one can be a sub to someone and a master to someone else (mid tier management sub/slave or something ) About PC equipping willingly devious device - I think that in terms of role-playing, the player that controls the PC is essentially the one who is making the decision whether PC is against wearing devices or not; my mod intent is to bring consequences to decisions that a player can make for the PC. Thus, I am not sure that forcing a certain decision based on stats is a good idea; though I do like the notion of calculating a general attitude of PC towards such things - such stat would allow more granular "consequences" to happen. Currently, the closest attribute to what you are talking about I think is "obedience" - since it is intended to signify conditioning to obey. Big picture about how Devious Attributes work: All attributes exception soul-state are implemented as faction ranks, one faction per attribute; all attributes have values ranged 0 .. 100 (I use faction because that is the most robust way to track values per NPC/PC) Attributes for the most part are not related to each other; the exception is submissiveness which is calculated from the values of pride and self-esteem (and re-calculated whenever one of the changes) NPC attribute tracking is implemented by cell change tracking and cloak spell that is active once in 15 sec (default) It could also go along the lines with the DD states of "Accustomed Slave" and "Experienced Slave". So if it was your first time equipping some device yourself it has a high chance of failing to equip. That would be using the same script popup instead of seeing "you lock the boots on with a soft click", it pops up with "You can not bring yourself to lock this item on". I like the idea - will need to think how to implement this properly It could also go along the lines with the DD states of "Accustomed Slave" and "Experienced Slave". So if it was your first time equipping some device yourself it has a high chance of failing to equip. That would be using the same script popup instead of seeing "you lock the boots on with a soft click", it pops up with "You can not bring yourself to lock this item on". Yeah something similiar. After all, just because you are an experienced slave, doesn't mean that you do enjoy being one. But if you are in a forced slave status or something similiar, you won't have the option to put it on at all. Instead the messages are about how you are too scared to put it on, that you do not want to relieve those memories again or that noone of a sound mind would ever wear such a thing. While being in a "neutral" state you might be ready to put it on, but depending on other stuff (I.E. pride) you won't be able to close specific locks (I.E. the yoke will have three locks, one for each arm and one on the neck. You will be able to open the locks on the arms by yourself with a key, but once the lock on the neck is closed, you WILL need to ask someone else for help, which obviously has a chance of not ending too well) I always wondered how a PC can lock a yoke on himself/herself without any help from others . Are you talking about changing locking semantics of a device that could be hard to lock, such as a yoke? Also I like the idea that pride can prevent locking a device voluntarily.. I will see what I can do in the consequences mod Since I am still not 100% sure of how I want to things work out, and I still didn't went through every bit of code in devious devices, I am still only working on rewriting the scripts for yokes. I've tried to create a small visualisation with articy draft to show you both the equp and remove menu for yokes. I hope it's not that hard to follow: Each //Struggle will cost about 15% stamina and there is a 5% (up to 10% depending on your arousal) chance for EACH lock to be accidentally closed. That means that even equipping the device might end up with closed locks. If you don't have enough stamina, you won't be able to perform the command that comes with a struggle (I.E. you won't be able to equip the device if you do not have enough stamina) Currently, there is nothing you gain from choosing to struggle, except for the things mentioned above. But I do plan on adding stat changes to devious attribute, once I start with the implemention. I.E. if you struggle it might increase your pride, while decreasing some traits such as masochism or exhibitionist. Of course, this is just a somewhat simplified illustration. There are many more messages to be shown depending on different kind of situations (I.E. if the device is locked, there are 2 different messages depending on if you have a key or not), but most of them will act on the same pattern as shown on those pictures. As of now, there is a 100% success chance when trying to lock your device. And there is no option to close additional locks once you are finished equipping it. I might change that in the future thought. As I have mentioned before, I did plan to add 3 general states concerning the equipment of devices. (One for being a masochist/obedient slave, one for being neutral and one for being a traumatized and resisting slave), that might prevent you from equipping. But some people mentioned that it might be more interesting to rely on specific traits such as pride instead. This idea isn't that bad, so I might go for this instead. I.E. It will weight the character's pride and masochism against each other (maybe in addition with some other traits such as humiliation or exhibitionist) to check wether the character is willing to equip or lock the device. The threshold will be different for each device (a yoke will require more masochism that a plug) If you have any suggestions or ideas, I'm willing to listen to them. Very nice idea what you are doing I think; the charts are not hard to follow. Haven't realized before that you are actually rewriting DDi scripts for equip/unequip of items. The way you want to use pride/masochism sounds good. I would also add willpower cost to each step (not enough willpower -> can't progress) Also, perhaps pride would also serve as threshold, so PC cannot equip items that are too humiliating for the moment? so for example, if pride > 90 --> no item can be equipped willingly, if pride > 75 no slave boots and gags can be equipped (too humiliating), if pride > 50 --> no armbinders and yokes can be equipped
m.skynet Posted April 16, 2016 Author Posted April 16, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right? While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(), I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code. I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon. First of all thanks One of the reasons I did recently a rewrite is because I didn't like the quality of code I had, and being kind of control freak, just had to rewrite it. Attributes are implemented as faction ranks, so they can be tracked for both PC and NPCs. About their role - they represent individual, "internal" traits and state of mind of each character. Take willpower for example: In the "player choice" system, willpower is the ability of PC to say "no" - the more willpower PC has, the more decisively the PC can say "no" to an order/request. Each time saying "no" has a price in terms of willpower that decreases PCs willpower. I see. Apparently I misunderstood the attributes earlier. The actor in the function is the owner of the attribute, not whom the PC feels toward. This means the PC and each NPC will have a single value for each attribute, right? So PC's willpower is to be used to determine how easy it is to reject a request from whoever she encounters. This is what I meant about the global scope. A single value of an attribute toward everyone. It makes sense in most occasions. For example, the PC was captured and held in a bandit camp. Being ravaged and punished and left in helpless condition, she naturally has a low willpower to every bandit in the camp. So this single willpower value is used to determine her capability of rejecting anyone's demand in the camp is definitely the right logic. Now look at a different scenario. In the DCL mod, there is a chance (50% by default I think) that when the PC talks to a man, the man may demand sex. The PC can choose to refuse. If so, there ia a chance for several different outcomes. The man may back off, proceed to rape her, or lock her in a chastity belt. Imagine the PC was raped and/or put in bondage by the same man a few times in the past. Naturally it makes sense that her attitude toward him will be much submissive and fearful over time. By the same token, the man would also be bolder if he has dominated the PC several times in the past. So I see there are attributes for PC in the global scope (the one you currently implemented) that is used for the cases like the bandit camp example above. There could also be a set of attributes at one-on-one basis for the 2nd case mentioned above. Especially submissveness could really depend on the target person. That's why there are people who are switch. They are dominant to many subs but feel submissive to some other more dominant people. The PC may be captured by a powerful and devious guild and is broken by them. Her mood toward them could be very submissive and her willpower toward them could be very low. Yet at the same time the PC could be a proud dragonborn in the general public with high self-esteen from all her achievements and high regard earned from those jarls except those few individuals who repeatedly bound her and raped her in their past encounters. Does this make sense to you? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Haven't thought on how to represent "switch" mentality so far; will be thinking on how this can be implemented. Likely, I will do the following: PC submissiveness will be per NPC, and the value will be between -100 ... 100 . Current submissiveness value that is calculated from pride and self-esteem will be a starting point to PC --> NPC submissiveness There will be API to modify PC --> NPC submissiveness What do you think? This mod is definitely interesting, but I've noticed a drastic increase in load time when using it, so I can't use it for my general gameplay. Not being too familiar with the internal workings of modding - could adding a 'light' version which only pays attention to the player character and explicitly picked characters possibly soften this? This mod is definitely interesting, but I've noticed a drastic increase in load time when using it, so I can't use it for my general gameplay. Not being too familiar with the internal workings of modding - could adding a 'light' version which only pays attention to the player character and explicitly picked characters possibly soften this? I agree. It seems like it has some heavy CTD issues as well because of the script load. And those "forced refresh" issued I mention earlier. I move in and out of areas fast and can't be bothered to worry if this is going to want to refresh while I am porting out. Still a good mod, but for now I'd say work on hammering out the kinks with only the player tracked then add NPC support down the line. I have to say that I have also been experiencing CTD issues with the update, although I didn't realize the association. I would also like a way to remove NPC tracking, since I never really want to use it anyway and it seems to increase the load. I suspect NPC tracking might be bit heavy for general use. In the next version I will include a toggle to turn-off NPC tracking, and also perhaps I will include a limit to amount of NPCs tracked at the same time. Also, I will include some changes to make NPC tracking more stable
Wandering_Mania Posted April 16, 2016 Posted April 16, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right?While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(),I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code.I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon. First of all thanks One of the reasons I did recently a rewrite is because I didn't like the quality of code I had, and being kind of control freak, just had to rewrite it. Attributes are implemented as faction ranks, so they can be tracked for both PC and NPCs. About their role - they represent individual, "internal" traits and state of mind of each character. Take willpower for example: In the "player choice" system, willpower is the ability of PC to say "no" - the more willpower PC has, the more decisively the PC can say "no" to an order/request. Each time saying "no" has a price in terms of willpower that decreases PCs willpower. I see. Apparently I misunderstood the attributes earlier. The actor in the function is the owner of the attribute, not whom the PC feels toward. This means the PC and each NPC will have a single value for each attribute, right? So PC's willpower is to be used to determine how easy it is to reject a request from whoever she encounters. This is what I meant about the global scope. A single value of an attribute toward everyone. It makes sense in most occasions. For example, the PC was captured and held in a bandit camp. Being ravaged and punished and left in helpless condition, she naturally has a low willpower to every bandit in the camp. So this single willpower value is used to determine her capability of rejecting anyone's demand in the camp is definitely the right logic. Now look at a different scenario. In the DCL mod, there is a chance (50% by default I think) that when the PC talks to a man, the man may demand sex. The PC can choose to refuse. If so, there ia a chance for several different outcomes. The man may back off, proceed to rape her, or lock her in a chastity belt. Imagine the PC was raped and/or put in bondage by the same man a few times in the past. Naturally it makes sense that her attitude toward him will be much submissive and fearful over time. By the same token, the man would also be bolder if he has dominated the PC several times in the past. So I see there are attributes for PC in the global scope (the one you currently implemented) that is used for the cases like the bandit camp example above. There could also be a set of attributes at one-on-one basis for the 2nd case mentioned above. Especially submissveness could really depend on the target person. That's why there are people who are switch. They are dominant to many subs but feel submissive to some other more dominant people. The PC may be captured by a powerful and devious guild and is broken by them. Her mood toward them could be very submissive and her willpower toward them could be very low. Yet at the same time the PC could be a proud dragonborn in the general public with high self-esteen from all her achievements and high regard earned from those jarls except those few individuals who repeatedly bound her and raped her in their past encounters. Does this make sense to you? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Haven't thought on how to represent "switch" mentality so far; will be thinking on how this can be implemented. Likely, I will do the following: PC submissiveness will be per NPC, and the value will be between -100 ... 100 . Current submissiveness value that is calculated from pride and self-esteem will be a starting point to PC --> NPC submissiveness There will be API to modify PC --> NPC submissiveness What do you think? This mod is definitely interesting, but I've noticed a drastic increase in load time when using it, so I can't use it for my general gameplay. Not being too familiar with the internal workings of modding - could adding a 'light' version which only pays attention to the player character and explicitly picked characters possibly soften this? This mod is definitely interesting, but I've noticed a drastic increase in load time when using it, so I can't use it for my general gameplay. Not being too familiar with the internal workings of modding - could adding a 'light' version which only pays attention to the player character and explicitly picked characters possibly soften this? I agree. It seems like it has some heavy CTD issues as well because of the script load. And those "forced refresh" issued I mention earlier. I move in and out of areas fast and can't be bothered to worry if this is going to want to refresh while I am porting out. Still a good mod, but for now I'd say work on hammering out the kinks with only the player tracked then add NPC support down the line. I have to say that I have also been experiencing CTD issues with the update, although I didn't realize the association. I would also like a way to remove NPC tracking, since I never really want to use it anyway and it seems to increase the load. I suspect NPC tracking might be bit heavy for general use. In the next version I will include a toggle to turn-off NPC tracking, and also perhaps I will include a limit to amount of NPCs tracked at the same time. Also, I will include some changes to make NPC tracking more stable Yeah the option to turn it off would be much appreciated. I have a massive script load already with Frostfall 3, SSL, DD, RnD, Privet Needs, Dibellan Defender and a few others. So I am starting to see crashes that only happened once before in the early days of Skyrim modding. But it is good to see such an innovative mod still coming out close to 5 years after Skyrim has been out.
Guest Posted April 16, 2016 Posted April 16, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right? While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(), I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code. I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon. First of all thanks One of the reasons I did recently a rewrite is because I didn't like the quality of code I had, and being kind of control freak, just had to rewrite it. Attributes are implemented as faction ranks, so they can be tracked for both PC and NPCs. About their role - they represent individual, "internal" traits and state of mind of each character. Take willpower for example: In the "player choice" system, willpower is the ability of PC to say "no" - the more willpower PC has, the more decisively the PC can say "no" to an order/request. Each time saying "no" has a price in terms of willpower that decreases PCs willpower. I see. Apparently I misunderstood the attributes earlier. The actor in the function is the owner of the attribute, not whom the PC feels toward. This means the PC and each NPC will have a single value for each attribute, right? So PC's willpower is to be used to determine how easy it is to reject a request from whoever she encounters. This is what I meant about the global scope. A single value of an attribute toward everyone. It makes sense in most occasions. For example, the PC was captured and held in a bandit camp. Being ravaged and punished and left in helpless condition, she naturally has a low willpower to every bandit in the camp. So this single willpower value is used to determine her capability of rejecting anyone's demand in the camp is definitely the right logic. Now look at a different scenario. In the DCL mod, there is a chance (50% by default I think) that when the PC talks to a man, the man may demand sex. The PC can choose to refuse. If so, there ia a chance for several different outcomes. The man may back off, proceed to rape her, or lock her in a chastity belt. Imagine the PC was raped and/or put in bondage by the same man a few times in the past. Naturally it makes sense that her attitude toward him will be much submissive and fearful over time. By the same token, the man would also be bolder if he has dominated the PC several times in the past. So I see there are attributes for PC in the global scope (the one you currently implemented) that is used for the cases like the bandit camp example above. There could also be a set of attributes at one-on-one basis for the 2nd case mentioned above. Especially submissveness could really depend on the target person. That's why there are people who are switch. They are dominant to many subs but feel submissive to some other more dominant people. The PC may be captured by a powerful and devious guild and is broken by them. Her mood toward them could be very submissive and her willpower toward them could be very low. Yet at the same time the PC could be a proud dragonborn in the general public with high self-esteen from all her achievements and high regard earned from those jarls except those few individuals who repeatedly bound her and raped her in their past encounters. Does this make sense to you? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Haven't thought on how to represent "switch" mentality so far; will be thinking on how this can be implemented. Likely, I will do the following: PC submissiveness will be per NPC, and the value will be between -100 ... 100 . Current submissiveness value that is calculated from pride and self-esteem will be a starting point to PC --> NPC submissiveness There will be API to modify PC --> NPC submissiveness What do you think? To be honest, how often will this matter? It seems like it will add a lot of complexity and room for error, but in practice the global and local values will be totally the same.
heehatatt Posted April 16, 2016 Posted April 16, 2016 Submissiveness towards singular npc's makes sense. If you're submissive to say your spouse, when you go outside why should you be submissive to the general population of Skyrim? Although I agree willpower makes more sense to keep as a global value. Someone really needs to make a mod using this framework as a base.
dev1antM1nd Posted April 16, 2016 Posted April 16, 2016 m.skynet, great mod. I've been hoping to see something like this ever since I started playing sexlab mods. I was planning to ask you if the attributes (pride, self-esteem, etc) are PC's feelings to everyone or towards each individual NPC. I then decided to just check your source code and see how it is implemented. Seeing an actor Form parameter is needed for the function, I assume the attributes are the PC's attributes toward that specific actor? It makes perfect sense for the willpower, submissiveness, and obedience, etc. Have you considered some attributes in a global scope? For example, a dragonborn slayed many dragons, helped the civil war may surely feel quite proud overall. In that sense, her attitude to a stranger won't be a clean slate but those global attributes she had built up in her journey over time, right? While browsing the script dattAttributeTrackerQuest, function OnSetAttribute(), I saw that if the incoming 'value' exceeds the MaxAttributeValue, you just record the value in the faction and the storage. Yet if the 'value' is below the max, you will also recalculate the submissiveness if needed and then notify the change. I wonder why you skip those when the value is max. BTW, your coding style is really clean. It's quite pleasant reading your code. I do hope to see that those d/s and bdsm related mods all integrate with this mod soon. First of all thanks One of the reasons I did recently a rewrite is because I didn't like the quality of code I had, and being kind of control freak, just had to rewrite it. Attributes are implemented as faction ranks, so they can be tracked for both PC and NPCs. About their role - they represent individual, "internal" traits and state of mind of each character. Take willpower for example: In the "player choice" system, willpower is the ability of PC to say "no" - the more willpower PC has, the more decisively the PC can say "no" to an order/request. Each time saying "no" has a price in terms of willpower that decreases PCs willpower. I see. Apparently I misunderstood the attributes earlier. The actor in the function is the owner of the attribute, not whom the PC feels toward. This means the PC and each NPC will have a single value for each attribute, right? So PC's willpower is to be used to determine how easy it is to reject a request from whoever she encounters. This is what I meant about the global scope. A single value of an attribute toward everyone. It makes sense in most occasions. For example, the PC was captured and held in a bandit camp. Being ravaged and punished and left in helpless condition, she naturally has a low willpower to every bandit in the camp. So this single willpower value is used to determine her capability of rejecting anyone's demand in the camp is definitely the right logic. Now look at a different scenario. In the DCL mod, there is a chance (50% by default I think) that when the PC talks to a man, the man may demand sex. The PC can choose to refuse. If so, there ia a chance for several different outcomes. The man may back off, proceed to rape her, or lock her in a chastity belt. Imagine the PC was raped and/or put in bondage by the same man a few times in the past. Naturally it makes sense that her attitude toward him will be much submissive and fearful over time. By the same token, the man would also be bolder if he has dominated the PC several times in the past. So I see there are attributes for PC in the global scope (the one you currently implemented) that is used for the cases like the bandit camp example above. There could also be a set of attributes at one-on-one basis for the 2nd case mentioned above. Especially submissveness could really depend on the target person. That's why there are people who are switch. They are dominant to many subs but feel submissive to some other more dominant people. The PC may be captured by a powerful and devious guild and is broken by them. Her mood toward them could be very submissive and her willpower toward them could be very low. Yet at the same time the PC could be a proud dragonborn in the general public with high self-esteen from all her achievements and high regard earned from those jarls except those few individuals who repeatedly bound her and raped her in their past encounters. Does this make sense to you? Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Haven't thought on how to represent "switch" mentality so far; will be thinking on how this can be implemented. Likely, I will do the following: PC submissiveness will be per NPC, and the value will be between -100 ... 100 . Current submissiveness value that is calculated from pride and self-esteem will be a starting point to PC --> NPC submissiveness There will be API to modify PC --> NPC submissiveness What do you think? To be honest, how often will this matter? It seems like it will add a lot of complexity and room for error, but in practice the global and local values will be totally the same. To be honest, how often does this NOT happen? The PC broken by one master doesn't automatically feel submissive to everyone in the world. This is not about switch or not. I just used it to demonstrate the idea. Even a person with submissiveness in nature feels differently toward different people. Otherwise once PC is broken and trained as a slave, she should just retire her weapons and magic spells forever. Because from that point on, she should immediately drop to her knees for everyone she encounters.
Knaeggchen Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 Well, while it's true that someone would feel different to specific people, you can't regard the fact that someones relationship to one won't affect the relationship you might have to others. I.E. if you truly were "broken" until the point that you have total submissiveness towards a single entity, you will much more likely be submissiveness to other people as well. There is no way you would be completely submiss to one guy but totally sadistic to every other one after you have endured such a horrible trauma. It should be somewhat similiar to what Bobbert6996 suggested. There is a clear relationship to each and every actor you have interacted so far. Each of them is mostly independent, so you could be submissive to one and sadistic to another. Thought every interaction should also affect your "global" stats, which in turn would affect your relationship to all other actors. The true submissive value should be a mix of the actor's specific stats as well as your "global" stats. Being submissive to a lot of different people will automatically make you more submissive to all already known as well as any new ones.
dev1antM1nd Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 Well, while it's true that someone would feel different to specific people, you can't regard the fact that someones relationship to one won't affect the relationship you might have to others. I.E. if you truly were "broken" until the point that you have total submissiveness towards a single entity, you will much more likely be submissiveness to other people as well. There is no way you would be completely submiss to one guy but totally sadistic to every other one after you have endured such a horrible trauma. It should be somewhat similiar to what Bobbert6996 suggested. There is a clear relationship to each and every actor you have interacted so far. Each of them is mostly independent, so you could be submissive to one and sadistic to another. Thought every interaction should also affect your "global" stats, which in turn would affect your relationship to all other actors. The true submissive value should be a mix of the actor's specific stats as well as your "global" stats. Being submissive to a lot of different people will automatically make you more submissive to all already known as well as any new ones. I agree completely. That's why in my orginal post I listed 2 scenarios. One is the submissiveness in a broader scope (my example of broken in the bandit camp), the other is at the one-on-one level. Both are valid scenarios and should be accounted for.
Knaeggchen Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Sheeeeesh, the documentation for this mod is quite horrible. I had to look into your sources and search through them just to find out how to access the attributes. There is no mention of what value type they are (apparently int), nor did they mention to which form they are bound (thought it should be quite obvious that it's the player's actor form). But now, after I finally somewhat managed to read the values, I am still in loss of how exactly I should put them, as there is hardly any proper guide on how to handle the values. There is no mention of the range of the values (thought I do know that its 0-100), there is no mention of what value is considered "high" or "low", and there are literally NO guidelines of how to use the fetish traits. What kind of stuff does change those values? Do they only increase, or do they also decrease? If yes, how do they decrease? What is a good value to increase/decrease those values? So as someone that wants to work with this mod, here are some more suggestions of how I would have. Changes to how Fetish-Attributes work Since I literally have no clue of how fetishes do work, I'll throw in some random suggestions of how I would wish them to be: The player should be able to set up their character's fetish values at the beginning of a game. They should also be able to configure of how those values can change. (Magnitude and direction. I.E. it deacreases heavily, cannot increase at all) They should be both, positive and negative values. Negative values would deacrease the amount willpower required to refuse, but on the other hand does increase obedience and/or submissiveness. It could also used to modify arousal changes. Instead of the fetish's value, it should return the character's state of this fetish, similiar to soul state. There could be like 5 (or maybe 7) for easier and less confusing usage. Example: -100 to -80 Strong Dislike -80 to -50 Medium Dislike -50 to -20 Slight Dislike -20 to +20 Neutral +20 to +50 Slight Like +50 to +80 Medium Like +80 to +100 Strong like I think that handing out states rather than actual values might also be a good idea for normal attributes as well, as -like mentioned before- it makes it much easier and clearer to use them. Suggestions of how to trigger statchanges I also suggest to discourage people of modifying values directly "Datt_SetAttribute" and "Datt_ModAttribute", and instead encourage them to use events similiar to "Datt_PlayerDecision" event. All stat calculations should be done internally by DAtt, as -like I mentioned quite a few times already- other people might heavily mess up if they gain too much access on them. In order to reflect to that idea, Datt_PlayerDecision event should look like this now: int decisionEventId = ModEvent.Create("Datt_PlayerDecision2") ; Response Type ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, -2 to +2) ; The NPC that issued the command ModEvent.PushForm(decisionEventId, Actor) ; General magnitude of the command ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1 to 10 (?)) ; First Fetish attribute of the command. I think it's better to use strings as this will make this mod event much easier to read ModEvent.PushString(decisionEventId, "_Datt_HumiliationLover") ; Magnitude of the first fetish ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1 to 5) ; second fetish ModEvent.PushString(decisionEventId, "_Datt_Masochist") ; second magnitude ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1 to 5) ModEvent.Send(decisionEventId) DAtt then re-calculates all stats depending on what was received. The NPC could be used to check the "relationship" between both parties and adjust stats accordingly (I.E. if you are highly submissiv towards this guy, it will drain much more willpower for refusal commands) Together with the general magnitude command, DAtt will be able t0 calculate the "base stat changes". You can then adjust those base values via the fetish traits and the character's stats of those. I.E. If there is a high magnitude of one fetish that your character is "weak" against, willpower and obedience consumption for your response will raise accordingly. We then need a second version of this that is unrelated to NPCs. Those are fired whenever something happens to the character without him/her being able to "refuse" or "respond" to. A good example would be devious devices. If those plugs you, or someone else put into your holes suddenly start vibrating, there is no "decision" you could make, but they can still change your stats. To endure those demonish plugs for countless of hours surely will drain on your willpower... And might awake the hidden Nymphomaniac. It's basicly the same pattern, just without response type and NPC form int decisionEventId = ModEvent.Create("Datt_PlayerDecision2") ; General magnitude of the command ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1 to 10 (?)) ; First Fetish attribute of the command. I think it's better to use strings as this will make this mod event much easier to read ModEvent.PushString(decisionEventId, "_Datt_HumiliationLover") ; Magnitude of the first fetish ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1 to 5) ; second fetish ModEvent.PushString(decisionEventId, "_Datt_Masochist") ; second magnitude ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1 to 5) ModEvent.Send(decisionEventId) Character Customization As I see it, DAtt is a good way to add some more "immersion" and "roleplaying". Thus, it only makes sense to add customization to it. Similiar to what I suggested to the fetish traits, you will be able to select your character's preferences. Things you could configure are: Base Fetisch stats: (Being highly masochistic but totally hate any kind of humiliation) Fetisch tendenzy (?): Like mentioned before, it will affect how much specific fetish stats do change. You could start as someone that totally hates sadism, but can quickly start to love it... Perks/Traits: They can have many different kind of effects. I.E. a "Willfull" perk could increase max willpower and willpower regeneration, while also reducing the costs of willpower. Another Idea would be to have "resistance" perks towards specific fetishes, which will decrease other stat losses if those fetishes are included. This resistance only apply to attributes (willpower, pride, etc), but not on the fetishes themselves (you can still become a hardcore masochism even thought you have maso-resistance perk) If you ever implement full NPC support, you could automatically add different perkrs/stats for them based on stuff like their faction or whatever you think would be best. Fetish Ideas We currently have 5 fetishes: HumiliationExhibitionistMasochistSadistNymphomaniac Personally, I don't think there is much of a need for both, Humiliation AND Exhibitionism. After all, I do consider exhibitionism as some form of humiliation. And I doubt that there will be enough cases to justify the existence of exhibitionism-trait. Instead, why not add some more aggressive traits? We currently only have sadism as only "aggressive" trait. How about Voyerism? You just love to see other people naked, or doing "it"~ We could also add some "fetishes" that aren't exactly used by decisions, but rather on generic stat changes/regeneration. I.E. if the amount of pride you gain for killing people could be increased if your character has high stats in some kind of "fighting fetish". Random other stuff I really would love to see some mod that adds different "sensitivitys/preferences" to specific body parts. I.E. having sensitive breasts would increase arousal for everything caused by them. Thought that is probably something for another mod (probably arousal itself?) Edit: There might be some cases where you want to change specific DAtt attributes directly as well (I.E. you want to increase the player's pride after he got praised by thousand of people during a quest). This should be done similiar to how I suggested above: int decisionEventId = ModEvent.Create("Datt_ModAttribute") ; Attribute to change ModEvent.PushString(decisionEventId, "_Datt_Pride") ; Magnitude ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, -5 to 5) ; OPTIONAL ; The NPC/Faction this change is related to ModEvent.PushForm(decisionEventId, Actor) ModEvent.Send(decisionEventId) Again, you should avoid other people to temper with stats directly and isntead always go through your mod. This way it will be much easier to use and maintenance, it's less prone for errors and there are other possibilities like the mentioned perks and stuff. Another idea I have is to not only relate to specific NPCs, but to whole factions as well. I.E. there are a lot of generic bandits out there, and there is not much of a point in having specific relationships towards them. Instead, you would rather fear bandits in general rather than a single bandit.
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