Has Beth lost its edge on RPG gaming?

[Valgo]

So to cut Beth some slack: While there are admitedly things that were better back in the day there are things that are better now.
In the next Game there will be things they have improved which in return will lead to less focus on something else which means compared to older Games will whatever 'that' is be worse. Duh.

And I am not talking about the Graphics. Tes and Fallout Graphics were always pretty much the at the requiered graphical minimum during the time of their release.

The very first thing I always install is a mod that makes the PC/NPC's look like Humans.

I will admit they did put much more thought and time in the character creator this time with Fallout 4. Sure overall the game will look old in 3 years at best but the humans will always look like humans. Fo3 and Oblivion had bad looking characters even for their time.

 

Moving on from graphics: I started playing Bethesda Games with Oblivion. I raided a LOT of dungeons and had my share of fun until I got bored because they looked all the same and so did the Overworld. Repetitive and empty. Still the Game had its upsides.

Next Game in the Series: Skyrim. Suddenly there are not two dungeons that are the same. Sure crypts look all very familiar but they are never the same. They are all hand crafted and heeey look here a journal next to a corpse. Ah poor guy, was left by his partner who seemingly gave up on their goal. Oh I can actually jump up that waterfall. A little bit of wandering later there is a second corpse, trapped. Wait so the guy didn't leave his friend? He just died? Damn that is sad. Okay let's finish things up here I've seen an interesting building at the other side of the River. Timeskip! Well there is only one room but look! there is a pedestial. I should totally touch that thing on it. Timeskip! Thing started to glow, I am trapped. It flies around me...so how do I get outta hereeeeee where did the floor go? I am falling for an eternity and land in some kind of underwater lake. Nice. Go up through tunnels to see the light of the day again, killed a bunch of Falmers, Chaurus and Trolls because why not. Oh what do my eyes see? A dwemer tower! Nice, let's see TIMESKIP wooohoo here are giant glowing mushrooms and a long lost City Underground? I'll spend the next few hours in a whole new Region.

 

I probably could have explained that shorter, what I am saying is: Exploring and adventuring did never feel as rewarding, immersive and fun as it did in Skyrim. Everything was beautiful, not because the graphics were so great but because some people spend god knows how many hours to make it all look interesting. That has nothing to do with Mods. I play through every Beth Game without Mods first. So on the flipside most armors in the game look boring and I can't combine the pants I like with the jackets I like or classes aren't a thing anymore. Sorry I couldn't hear you over the fun I had playing through the Game with my eight charakter I think.

 

Then we have two popular complains that prove even more that it is just impossible to please everyone.

Team A says: Beth does always the same thing, every Game is the same. I wish they'd do something new.

Team B say: The made this, this, this and this different. Everything was better back in the old Games.

 

Do I even need to comment on this? It's an obvious paradox and I don't get it.

 

They tried a lot new stuff with Fallout 4. Voiced dialogue, a more intense story telling (which it was, doesn't matter what you think of the story), bulding settlements or Followers I actually care about for the first time ever. Personally I prefered it over Fallout 3 and New vegas buuuut I can easily see why everyone says NV was the best one becausse it just was but it doesn't have to be the one I enjoyed the most, does it?
Doesn't mean I have to enjoy the best Game the most.
 

To come up with a comparison: Knowing that Classic, Jazz or Technical Metal are among the most sophisticated music genres out there doesn't prevent one from enjoying a Punk Rock Concert.

 

And going back to the actual matter at hand (what this thread really is/ has become, not what stands in the thread title) and going with another comparison:
Bethesda Games are like Lego. It doesn't look as good as action figures, it doesn't make you as smart as training your brain with chess and it isn't as flashy as your Hot Wheels Collection but it is damn fine and you can play/ build EVERYTHING with that Lego Sets. You can even customize it by using other Lego sets or just glueing completely different stuff to it.

 

And all I am seeing here are people who are mad that lego Minifigures don't have yellow skin anymore like they used to have..

 

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Disclaimer

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Obviously I exaggerated above at least twice in like every sentence but that was intentional.
And I'm definitly no one that says New stuff is always better ala Barney Stinson

 

 

My favourit Lego Sets are still from the Johnny/ Adventure or old Bionical Stuff but I can easily admit that Star Wars Lego Sets are much cooler nowadays if you get my point x)
It's about taking off those nostalgia glasses and focusing as much on what is better now as focusing on what isn't.

 

I've read a few comments about how much better the Witcher 3 was. Well I loved that Game, the characters were amazing and the freedom how to handle different situations was superb. But did I want to go out to explore the World? No. Did I play my own Character? No. I played Gerald. It's a whole different approach, much closer to Bioware Games than Bethesda Games. The comparison doesn't make as much sense as some people like to believe.

 

"Rant" over.  Please don't sue me I have no money, thanks

[DocClox]

Moving on from graphics: I started playing Bethesda Games with Oblivion. I raided a LOT of dungeons and had my share of fun until I got bored because they looked all the same and so did the Overworld. Repetitive and empty. Still the Game had its upsides.

Next Game in the Series: Skyrim. Suddenly there are not two dungeons that are the same. Sure crypts look all very familiar but they are never the same.

 

To be fair, I don't think that they were all the same in Oblivion either. I mean the dungeons were all tileset based, same as Skyrim. So one Aleyid ruin had a lot of the same bits as the next, but the same is true of Dwemer ruins in Skyrim.

 

And while there wasn't anything quite like Blackreach (which is amazing) we did have the Oblivion worlds which were just as impressive in their way. Then there were things like the crazy wizard tower from the Vaermina quest where normal physics didn't always apply, or you'd get doors that led to rope bridges over the yawning Void or to upside down rooms. Or there was the cave with a mudcrab the size of a house at the end. The bandits trying to dig into the Chorrol sewers; The fort full of bandits and marauders facing off in a fragile truce - disturb one and the rest attack each other; there was a lot of cool stuff there.

 

I think Oblivion is seriously underrated these days, myself.

 

To come up with a comparison: Knowing that Classic, Jazz or Technical Metal are among the most sophisticated music genres out there doesn't prevent one from enjoying a Punk Rock Concert.

 

But we do have certain expectations, arguably legitimate ones, from a Bethesda game. I feel like I bought a ticket to see the Sex Pistols perform and ended up having to sit through five hours of the Carpenters instead.

 

And all I am seeing here are people who are mad that lego Minifigures don't have yellow skin anymore like they used to have..

I suppose if the only reason I played with Lego was the yellowness of their skins, it would probably be a reasonable complaint. One important reason why I play Bethesda games is the quality of their support for role-play and it pains me to see them moving away from that in recent offerings. Is that so wrong?

[Hayleyrose2323]

I'm one of the people who reaaaaaaaaally didn't like fallout 4. Even with all the mods. Tons of people have complained and probably said everything I feel about it, so all im gonna say is, Im happy with my new vegas AND I know its a super uber long shot and will probably never happen, but I would very much love for them to just hand over fallout again and let those guys do another new vegas game or something. I really think they know what they were doing, more so than Bethesda, BUT thats just me. I dunno. 

But yea I personally dont like this Bethesda and what they are doing..

[leddis3]

I would just say that hard stats aren't everything, and as far as open world RPGs go there isn't anything better than Fallout 4 at the moment.

 

Of course more focused experiences like Pillars of Eternity will beat it on an RPG front, and New Vegas definitely beats it from the last generation (though New Vegas' world design is extremely boring to me compared to the cityscapes of Fallout 3 and 4).

[Jusey1]

 

Incorrect? Morrowind flat out had more content, that's a fact.

 

Copy-Paste was overly used in Morrowind's side content. The MQ and some of the guild questlines were all great (plus the DLC quests were good too). However, Morrowind's "more content" is actually lesser than you think. Majority of Morrowind's side content is basically copy-pasted stories with slight edits. Usually, when you do something Morrowind, you basically just witness a good % of it's content, and things gets very repeat-able over time. And this isn't just quests, but dungeons, areas, etc were copy-pasted way too much. NPCs, for the most part, all had the exact same personalities and said the exact same stuff (Unless their special)... And I can keep going on.

 

The newer Bethesda games may have less quests and factions, but a lot of other elements has been enhanced and added onto to fix that. A lot more NPCs had personality given to them, and actual interesting things to say about themselves. Every area in the game (Skyrim and Fallout 4) are all unique from one another, and have unique stories to them. Even including the wilderness, which is full of different small areas to find which aren't marked on the map. Side Quests, themselves, also gotten a lot of nice attention to them from Oblivion and onward.

 

There is a lot more attention to detail in the newer games which adds a lot more to the game to do, than you think. If you're all about quests and factions, and don't care about this stuff... Then that's fine. That's your preference. But don't be ignorant and think that these improvements don't exists at all because there are less of what you want.

I'm one of the people who reaaaaaaaaally didn't like fallout 4. Even with all the mods. Tons of people have complained and probably said everything I feel about it, so all im gonna say is, Im happy with my new vegas AND I know its a super uber long shot and will probably never happen, but I would very much love for them to just hand over fallout again and let those guys do another new vegas game or something. I really think they know what they were doing, more so than Bethesda, BUT thats just me. I dunno. 

But yea I personally dont like this Bethesda and what they are doing..

 

I gotta disagree. Mostly because Obsidian and Bethesda focuses on two different things. Obsidian did got a good deal right, and I liked a lot of stuff in New Vegas. Hell, it seems Obsidian figured out what they do best rather quickly and the DLCs for New Vegas were pretty dang amazing. However, Obsidian fails miserably at creating an impressive and immersive open world to explore... And a lot of other things where Bethesda flats out succeeds at the best.

 

So, I wouldn't mind if Obsidian makes a linear story-telling Fallout game. Something like Dead Money, but game-size and not DLC-size. Obsidian is best at that, not at the world design, details, etc which Bethesda does better at.

To be fair, I don't think that they were all the same in Oblivion either.

 

There are 12 Aylied ruins with the exact same loadout, same loot in the same areas, same traps in the same area, etc. Just different enemies... And that's just one loadout.

 

The only places which got more attention tends to be related to the MQ or one of the Guild's Questlines. Everything else is highly copy-pasted.

[leddis3]

I don't think Obsidian necesarilly need linearity, New Vegas functioned pretty well as it was. The problem was I think development time and the samey setting.

Las Vegas is just not a very interesting city to see in a post apocalypse, especially how tiny and featureless it was in game. Give Obsidian a more interesting open-world like, say, the Boneyard, and it'd work out much better.

[DocClox]

NPCs, for the most part, all had the exact same personalities and said the exact same stuff (Unless their special)... And I can keep going on.

They should have called them all "Settler" and then no one would have noticed.

 

The newer Bethesda games may have less quests and factions, but a lot of other elements has been enhanced and added onto to fix that. A lot more NPCs had personality given to them, and actual interesting things to say about themselves.

Let's see... Vivec, Dagoth Ur, Crassius Curio, Divyath Fyr, Therana, Neloth, Trebonius, Sugar-Lips Hasibi, Nibani Mesa, Fargoth, Big Head, Caius Cossades, Miles Glorioso, Geor Matreinace, Hides-His-Eyes, Gandosa Arobar, "Fast Eddie" Theman. That's just off the top of my head. What's Fallout 4 got apart from the companions? I'll give you Kellogg and Tinker Tom. Father is a mildly interesting psychopath and most of the other faction heads have exactly the same "I'm a dick for no good reason" personality. Brian Virgil is more interesting for what he is than who he is. I'll give you KLEO the transgender robot. Who else? The kid in the fridge?

 

There is a lot more attention to detail in the newer games which adds a lot more to the game to do, than you think. If you're all about quests and factions, and don't care about this stuff... Then that's fine. That's your preference. But don't be ignorant and think that these improvements don't exists at all because there are less of what you want.

If it helps, I will concede that Fallout 4 has lots and lots of Sad Skeletons. I don't really see that they make up for the absnce of more active content, myself.

 

There are 12 Aylied ruins with the exact same loadout, same loot in the same areas, same traps in the same area, etc. Just different enemies... And that's just one loadout.

Name some.

[Valgo]

 

Moving on from graphics: I started playing Bethesda Games with Oblivion. I raided a LOT of dungeons and had my share of fun until I got bored because they looked all the same and so did the Overworld. Repetitive and empty. Still the Game had its upsides.

Next Game in the Series: Skyrim. Suddenly there are not two dungeons that are the same. Sure crypts look all very familiar but they are never the same.

 

To be fair, I don't think that they were all the same in Oblivion either. I mean the dungeons were all tileset based, same as Skyrim. So one Aleyid ruin had a lot of the same bits as the next, but the same is true of Dwemer ruins in Skyrim.

 

And while there wasn't anything quite like Blackreach (which is amazing) we did have the Oblivion worlds which were just as impressive in their way. Then there were things like the crazy wizard tower from the Vaermina quest where normal physics didn't always apply, or you'd get doors that led to rope bridges over the yawning Void or to upside down rooms. Or there was the cave with a mudcrab the size of a house at the end. The bandits trying to dig into the Chorrol sewers; The fort full of bandits and marauders facing off in a fragile truce - disturb one and the rest attack each other; there was a lot of cool stuff there.

 

I think Oblivion is seriously underrated these days, myself.

 

To come up with a comparison: Knowing that Classic, Jazz or Technical Metal are among the most sophisticated music genres out there doesn't prevent one from enjoying a Punk Rock Concert.

 

But we do have certain expectations, arguably legitimate ones, from a Bethesda game. I feel like I bought a ticket to see the Sex Pistols perform and ended up having to sit through five hours of the Carpenters instead.

 

And all I am seeing here are people who are mad that lego Minifigures don't have yellow skin anymore like they used to have..

I suppose if the only reason I played with Lego was the yellowness of their skins, it would probably be a reasonable complaint. One important reason why I play Bethesda games is the quality of their support for role-play and it pains me to see them moving away from that in recent offerings. Is that so wrong?

 

 

Sadly they were. Especially the Oblivion Gates you mentioned. After I had seen like four of them I got bored because two out of those four looked exactly the same. Personally I didn't like them much in the first place but I can admit that that is on me as much as it is on the Game.

I can admit that I liked certain quests more but on the other Hand I also liked some of them less so that is actually rather balanced.

 

Truth to be told I plan on getting back to Oblivion once I am 'done' with Skyrim as far as you can ever an be done with it, only this time with mods.

I do not look forward to finding out what the essential normal (better looking npc's, obligatory nude skins, quests, something like levelers tower)/adult (combat rape, slavery, animations) mods are and what they requiere otherwise I might have moved on to doing that. x)

 

Well back to topic: But Bethesda Games didn't change as much. It's more like a Band which changed their style a bit over the years which pretty much every Band does. The overall stile is still the same and you recognize them immediately but maybe they just put more effort in some sick solos than a catchy chorus these days or the other way around.

 

 

Not shitting: I've actually seen people rant about how Lego Figures aren't yellow anymore. Saying stuff like how Lego is trying to be realistic or like Playmobil nowadays instead of focusing on how fun it is to combine different sets. Personally I don't see how new sets are hard to combine in anyway but who cares: The arguments were pretty much the same as those some people use when they say nowadays Beth is all about the graphics which they are clearly not. They were a bit behind back then, they are a bit behind now and that is okay because that isn't the reason I play the Game. As long as I am not requiered to war a full face helmet because I just don't wanna see my own character everything is fine in my book.

 

 

[leddis3]

 

Let's see... Vivec, Dagoth Ur, Crassius Curio, Divyath Fyr, Therana, Neloth, Trebonius, Sugar-Lips Hasibi, Nibani Mesa, Fargoth, Big Head, Caius Cossades, Miles Glorioso, Geor Matreinace, Hides-His-Eyes, Gandosa Arobar, "Fast Eddie" Theman. That's just off the top of my head. What's Fallout 4 got apart from the companions? I'll give you Kellogg and Tinker Tom. Father is a mildly interesting psychopath and most of the other faction heads have exactly the same "I'm a dick for no good reason" personality. Brian Virgil is more interesting for what he is than who he is. I'll give you KLEO the transgender robot. Who else? The kid in the fridge?

 

 

The fact that you called Father a psychopath when he's one of the most nuanced characters in the game shows you haven't really paid attention to Fallout 4's characters much to begin with.

As for other interesting NPCs? Mayor McDonough, Arthur Maxson, Captain Kells, Isabel Cruz, Captain Zao, Dr. Li, Proctor Ingram, Allie Fillmore, Alan Binet.

 

And others. Now yeah, Maxson is a dickhead and so is Desdemona. But their positions are believable enough, and far better than half the Morrowind characters you mentioned. I mean seriously, Fargoth? Come on.

[Jusey1]

 

They should have called them all "Settler" and then no one would have noticed.

 

Settlers are generated NPCs, not placed NPCs. Settlers have very set personalities, just like the Raiders, Gunners, and Super Mutants in the games because of them being generated. I was talking about actual named NPCs whom are placed in the game world directly, and not generated. This is even including named Raiders in Fallout 4 as well, as they have some personality and backstory in their terminals, notes, etc that you can read, or listen to (sound holotapes).

 

Not many named Bandits in Morrowind has that kind of stuff... They just have names and generic dialogue, while attacking you on sight. Same thing with most of the Sixth House named enemies... They don't say much if you manage to speak to them. They all just babble on with the same dialogue about the Sixth House and Dagoth Ur.

 

 

If it helps, I will concede that Fallout 4 has lots and lots of Sad Skeletons. I don't really see that they make up for the absnce of more active content, myself.

 

You don't read much, do you?

You don't explore much, do you?

You don't pay much attention to the world, do you?

 

 

Name some.

 

Ye'h... Like I can specifically remember the places in questioned... There's no way I can remember the ruins' names, let alone which one is which. I just know because after finding every location on the map, I went to every single one and marked each one in my notes for each layout, and figured out how many are under each layout... That was back in like 2009 when I did that, and I am someone who forget names easily. I can remember anything and everything else though.

I don't think Obsidian necesarilly need linearity, New Vegas functioned pretty well as it was. The problem was I think development time and the samey setting.

Las Vegas is just not a very interesting city to see in a post apocalypse, especially how tiny and featureless it was in game. Give Obsidian a more interesting open-world like, say, the Boneyard, and it'd work out much better.

 

The world as a whole was really empty and linear built itself. Plus, there was really only one location for each enemy type. If you want to fight Super Mutants, the mountain. Those "Raiders"? Left side of the New Vegas city... And so on. Oh, and don't get me started on that terrible MQ, and those boring uninteresting factions...

 

Most of my enjoyment from New Vegas was doing their small side quests or DLCs which didn't focus on any huge world faction or MQ but rather focuses on a nice smaller story which was really interesting, and nice. Then combine that with the classic Fallout-choice options in Dialogue, and such, then you have a very fun game. It's just, the main point of the game and most of the world was so empty and boring...

 

Yes, some of that can be blamed on the development time, which I understand, but that still doesn't change the fact of how it turned up to be.

[DocClox]

Sadly they were. Especially the Oblivion Gates you mentioned. After I had seen like four of them I got bored because two out of those four looked exactly the same. Personally I didn't like them much in the first place but I can admit that that is on me as much as it is on the Game.

We-e-e-ll... there's only one Blackreach, and that's exactly the same as itself!

 

OK, I'm being flippant, I know. Seriously though, they do have a similar sort of alien grandeur to them. The whole of Merunes Dagon's demesne looks always looks as if it's about to clench and crush you entirely. It's not a comfortable place, but I think it shows every bit as much creativity as Blackreach. Of course, if we were invited to run raids into Blackreach every five hundred yards in Skyrim, I imagine that would get old pretty fast as well.

 

 

Well back to topic: But Bethesda Games didn't change as much. It's more like a Band which changed their style a bit over the years which pretty much every Band does. The overall stile is still the same and you recognize them immediately but maybe they just put more effort in some sick solos than a catchy chorus these days or the other way around.

 

 

Less so with Skyrim though, and far less so with Fallout 4.

 

You talk about punk: I used to be a big fan of Bob Geldof's old band - The Boomtown Rats. First album was good punky stuff. Second one was getting a bit silly in places, but still had that hard edge to it. Then they did "I don't like Mondays" and my heart sank when I heard it. It remains the band's stand-out hit and is arguably their most accomplished track ... but it's also the last good one they did as far as I know. Listening to it back then I had this premonition that this was the way things were going to be henceforth - style over substance, and so it proved.

 

Skyrim, from where I sit looks like Bethesda's "Mondays". Fallout 4 is shaping up to be their "Banana Republic". I fear it's all downhill from here.

 

And for what it's worth, I still don't think the Rats ever bettered "Looking After Number One".

 

The fact that you called Father a psychopath when he's one of the most nuanced characters in the game shows you haven't really paid attention to Fallout 4's characters much to begin with.

Honestly, I don't think he's nuanced so much as badly and inconsistently written. "Psychopath" is one of the characterizations that makes him least random in his behavior; I'm trying to cut the writers some slack when I use it. If you insist, I will happily discus Father's nuances all day long. But perhaps this isn't the ideal thread for it?

 

As for other interesting NPCs? Mayor McDonough, Arthur Maxson, Captain Kells, Isabel Cruz, Captain Zao, Dr. Li, Proctor Ingram, Allie Fillmore, Alan Binet.

McDoughnut is a cardboard cut-out , mainly interesting for what he is rather than who. Maxson, I don't find him convincing (or at least not in any interpretation the BoS faithful would ever accept) but I'll give you that one in the spirit of fairness. Kells is a bit wooden; Cruz - if we allow her, I get to add Alamexia, Sotha Sil (dead but still interesting), Uncle Sweetshare, High-Pockets, Barenziah, and probably dozens of others if we're going to allow DLC and add-ons. So maybe it's fairer if we just compare the base game. Zao, I've never done his quest so I'll concede the point; Dr. Li is recycled from F3 where she was quite interesting - I found her rather less so in F4. Ingram, OK. Allie Fillmore - seriously? Why? Allen Binet, same question. Being an Institute department head is not in itself a personality.

 

I'm not seeing any of those as better, either in quantity or quality, personally.

 

I mean seriously, Fargoth? Come on.

The requirement was for interesting and distinct personalities. Fargoth, irritating as the little sod is, is nevertheless memorable and distinctive.

 

You can probably add Jack Cabot to the F4 list. Kind of deadpan, but interesting all the same.

[DocClox]

Settlers are generated NPCs, not placed NPCs. Settlers have very set personalities, just like the Raiders, Gunners, and Super Mutants in the games because of them being generated. I was talking about actual named NPCs whom are placed in the game world directly, and not generated. This is even including named Raiders in Fallout 4 as well, as they have some personality and backstory in their terminals, notes, etc that you can read, or listen to (sound holotapes).

 

Not many named Bandits in Morrowind has that kind of stuff... They just have names and generic dialogue, while attacking you on sight. Same thing with most of the Sixth House named enemies... They don't say much if you manage to speak to them. They all just babble on with the same dialogue about the Sixth House and Dagoth Ur.

 

 

So when Fallout 4 does it, it's good, but when Morrowind does it, it's bad. Gotcha.

 

You don't read much, do you?

You don't explore much, do you?

You don't pay much attention to the world, do you?

You're evading the point, aren't you?

 

 

Name some.

 

Ye'h... Like I can specifically remember the places in questioned... There's no way I can remember the ruins' names, let alone which one is which. I just know because after finding every location on the map, I went to every single one and marked each one in my notes for each layout, and figured out how many are under each layout... That was back in like 2009 when I did that, and I am someone who forget names easily. I can remember anything and everything else though.

 

So look the buggers up, or admit you're bullshitting. It's not my job to fact-check your assertions.

[Eth4rlad]

"the sidequests in Morrowind are all just copy&paste"

"there are 40-50 (c&P) sidequests in Fallout 4"

 

"Fallout4 has 4 factions"

"New Vegas only has 2 Factions and they are all boring"

 

"Morrowind had generic NPCs loaded from Formlists"

"The generic NPCs in FO4 that are loaded from formlists have personality"

 

Jusey, i was already impressed when you entered this thread saying that Bethesda-games can't be properly judged because they defy genre expectations, which i thought can not possibly be topped, but you're the gift that keeps on giving.

[Jazzman]

Thanks to the Lord of the Machine I'm the only moron on the single player grid, and I just love it. That good feeling hasn't changed since Morrowind 2002 or I'd not play Fallout4 today...

[Jusey1]

 

You're evading the point, aren't you?

 

Not my fault that you're coming off as ignorant. immature, and possibly stupid. No offense. Hell, it even seems like you don't think about or read what I say... Just say whatever stupid bullshit that comes to your mind, and boom that's your post.

 

I greatly apologize that I am someone who gets annoyed at people like this and prefer to have an actual discussion with people who can actually put thought into their words, and listen carefully on what is being said.

 

Jusey, i was already impressed when you entered this thread saying that Bethesda-games can't be properly judged because they defy genre expectations, which i thought can not possibly be topped, but you're the gift that keeps on giving.

 

 

I said compared, not judged. Plus, I don't know why you would even bother to judge a game anyways. A game is a work of art, and there's no need to judge art in general. Now, criticize? That's a different thing altogether and any work of art can be criticized.

 

Also, if you're trying to insult me, which I think you are, then you're going to have to try harder... Being a critical person, I'm kinda use to people be idiotic and attempting the insult card on me.

[DocClox]

Not my fault that you're coming off as ignorant. immature, and possibly stupid. No offense.

None taken.

 

 

Hell, it even seems like you don't think about or read what I say... Just say whatever stupid bullshit that comes to your mind, and boom that's your post.

 

Yeah. I mean it's not as if you're the one resorting to insults to cover the fact that they can't back up their facts with evidence. Oh wait ... it's actually just like that, isn't it? My bad.

 

 

I greatly apologize that I am someone who gets annoyed at people like this and prefer to have an actual discussion with people who can actually put thought into their words, and listen carefully on what is being said.

Don't worry about it. I think everyone here can see what's going on.

[Hayleyrose2323]

 

 

 

I gotta disagree. Mostly because Obsidian and Bethesda focuses on two different things. Obsidian did got a good deal right, and I liked a lot of stuff in New Vegas. Hell, it seems Obsidian figured out what they do best rather quickly and the DLCs for New Vegas were pretty dang amazing. However, Obsidian fails miserably at creating an impressive and immersive open world to explore... And a lot of other things where Bethesda flats out succeeds at the best.

 

So, I wouldn't mind if Obsidian makes a linear story-telling Fallout game. Something like Dead Money, but game-size and not DLC-size. Obsidian is best at that, not at the world design, details, etc which Bethesda does better at.

 

 

Aww. I honestly love the new vegas setting, the deserts and whole wild west wasteland type stuff, I thought they did an amazing job with everything to be honest, all the locations and just the world in general. I thought it was very immersive and I love all the neat features they added to the game, especially hard core mode. I mean, thats something we usually have to mod in our games most of the time, but they got it down for us

[Guest endgameaddiction]

They did a bad representation of a post-apocalyptic world. New Vegas was more of a cowboy theme game for of the 1800s mixed with modern (strip). The atmosphere was simply not there and that made the open world not only lacking, but boring. AWOP made that game interesting for me until it stopped, but I see many flaws that could of been avoided. I really don't know what they were really trying to aim for in that game, but you can look up a lot of desert post-apocalypse on deviant art and see some really nice art work on what they could of used to bring out that atmosphere and make it feel more like a dangerous world.

 

That's what Fallout 3 had - a dangerous world that represented destruction and survival. It reminded you not just what the world used to be, but what it is now.

[CrisG9]

Bedhesda went nuts when they took the path for their online piece of junk. it is a banal and ordinary as any of them

 

i have lost faith tin them ..the Fallout series was a dead end of depression and darikness too. no chance of a happy ending just endlinss grinding in a depressing world.

 

we have enough of that in real life.

 

i will contnue to enjoy and mod for Oblvion working on a new city ..and Skyrim same.

[Jusey1]

 

Yeah. I mean it's not as if you're the one resorting to insults to cover the fact that they can't back up their facts with evidence. Oh wait ... it's actually just like that, isn't it? My bad.

 

This is exactly what I am saying, you are being so idiotic and stupid. You barely read anything I've posted, you barely think on anything, and you are greatly ignorant not to the games but it seems to common sense as well at times. I've explained the ordeal, and provided examples + evidence for the most part, and you seem to completely miss them and have exactly no idea what I was talking about. Instead, you're just going on with this stupidity and it is annoying. No offense again.

 

And you'll never bother to learn because you seem to be too stubborn anyways. So, I don't care anymore, and I definably won't bother listening to any ramble you might have to say now on about the games for sure since you have no idea what you're talking about (for the most part, that is), which a lot of people are like this for anything anyways.

 

And I'm not covering anything mate. I've provided enough information and explanation to support both sides of the discussion just fine. Every game, since Morrowind, has it's ups and flaws. Bethesda specifically has been improving on many aspects over time, as well as failing on other aspects due to their limited resource and time which gives each game their own set of strengths and weaknesses. Fallout 4 and Skyrim has many great strengths and are great games because of them, yet they have weaknesses which we ALL have pointed out. Morrowind has other great strengths, which many of us has pointed out, yet many weaknesses which few of us has pointed out. However, these strengths, for the most part, makes all of these games great in their own special way, despite the weaknesses, and there's nothing wrong with them or Bethesda in general.

 

It's just people like you who are too ignorant and seems to be blinded by something stupid, be it nostalgia or something else (Not saying you're truly are nostalgic or anything. Was just an example). And people like you will refuse to learn or accept the truth of the matter because you guys want Bethesda to make the games YOU WANT, rather than the games that Bethesda wants to make or would be best for Bethesda to make in the first place (Due to having to balance out quality and business together in order to stay a-float and not go bankrupt; which Bethesda does a great balance between the two).

[TheOzoneHole]

So to cut Beth some slack: While there are admittedly things that were better back in the day there are things that are better now.

In the next Game there will be things they have improved which in return will lead to less focus on something else which means compared to older Games will whatever 'that' is be worse. Duh.

And I am not talking about the Graphics. Tes and Fallout Graphics were always pretty much the at the required graphical minimum during the time of their release.

The very first thing I always install is a mod that makes the PC/NPC's look like Humans.

I will admit they did put much more thought and time in the character creator this time with Fallout 4. Sure overall the game will look old in 3 years at best but the humans will always look like humans. Fo3 and Oblivion had bad looking characters even for their time.

 

 

 

-------

Disclaimer

------

 

Obviously I exaggerated above at least twice in like every sentence but that was intentional.

And I'm definitely no one that says New stuff is always better ala Barney Stinson

 

 

 

 

I've read a few comments about how much better the Witcher 3 was. Well I loved that Game, the characters were amazing and the freedom how to handle different situations was superb. But did I want to go out to explore the World? No. Did I play my own Character? No. I played Gerald. It's a whole different approach, much closer to Bioware Games than Bethesda Games. The comparison doesn't make as much sense as some people like to believe.

 

 

 

Yes, Morrowind and Oblivion had issues. And I will say that there is no such thing as a perfect game.  Also, I see your image and raise you another.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moving on from graphics: I started playing Bethesda Games with Oblivion. I raided a LOT of dungeons and had my share of fun until I got bored because they looked all the same and so did the Overworld. Repetitive and empty. Still the Game had its upsides.

Next Game in the Series: Skyrim. Suddenly there are not two dungeons that are the same. Sure crypts look all very familiar but they are never the same. They are all hand crafted and heeey look here a journal next to a corpse. Ah poor guy, was left by his partner who seemingly gave up on their goal. Oh I can actually jump up that waterfall. A little bit of wandering later there is a second corpse, trapped. Wait so the guy didn't leave his friend? He just died? Damn that is sad. Okay let's finish things up here I've seen an interesting building at the other side of the River. Timeskip! Well there is only one room but look! there is a pedestial. I should totally touch that thing on it. Timeskip! Thing started to glow, I am trapped. It flies around me...so how do I get outta hereeeeee where did the floor go? I am falling for an eternity and land in some kind of underwater lake. Nice. Go up through tunnels to see the light of the day again, killed a bunch of Falmers, Chaurus and Trolls because why not. Oh what do my eyes see? A dwemer tower! Nice, let's see TIMESKIP wooohoo here are giant glowing mushrooms and a long lost City Underground? I'll spend the next few hours in a whole new Region.

 

It is a BethSoft game, and this is part of my main point, EXPLORING IS FUN!  That is the problem with FO4, exploring is NOT fun.  This is kind of a problem I have with all the Fallout games, the enemy density outside is much higher than I feel it should be but the enemy density inside is lower than I'd like, mostly because of limitations from the console or game engine. (FO1 & FO2 this is an issue but less of one due to the different mode of travel in those games.)  I feel that in some of the southern areas of FO4 I can't move 10 feet without something trying to kill me. I want to explore and find a cave filled with nasty critters or crazy people, not have the nasty critters or crazy people charge me and then have a different kind charge me less than a minute later. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I couldn't hear you over the fun I had playing through the Game with my eight character I think. 

 I've got over 150 different characters from Skyrim not counting all the saves I've deleted. (And yes they all take up a stupid amount of HDD space, and I really should delete more of them.) What's your point?  I still miss begin able to swap out greaves and pauldrons and have a gauntlet on my left hand and a glove on my right and wear clothes under my armor like a sane person would and a robe over everything else. That doesn't affect my enjoyment of exploring.

 

 

 

They tried a lot new stuff with Fallout 4. Voiced dialogue, a more intense story telling (which it was, doesn't matter what you think of the story), building settlements or Followers I actually care about for the first time ever. Personally I preferred it over Fallout 3 and New Vegas buuuut I can easily see why everyone says NV was the best one because it just was but it doesn't have to be the one I enjoyed the most, does it?

Doesn't mean I have to enjoy the best Game the most.

 

To come up with a comparison: Knowing that Classic, Jazz or Technical Metal are among the most sophisticated music genres out there doesn't prevent one from enjoying a Punk Rock Concert.

 

And going back to the actual matter at hand (what this thread really is/ has become, not what stands in the thread title) and going with another comparison:

Bethesda Games are like Lego. It doesn't look as good as action figures, it doesn't make you as smart as training your brain with chess and it isn't as flashy as your Hot Wheels Collection but it is damn fine and you can play/ build EVERYTHING with that Lego Sets. You can even customize it by using other Lego sets or just gluing completely different stuff to it.

 

And all I am seeing here are people who are mad that Lego Minifigures don't have yellow skin anymore like they used to have..

 

My favorite Lego Sets are still from the Johnny/ Adventure or old Bionical Stuff but I can easily admit that Star Wars Lego Sets are much cooler nowadays if you get my point x)

It's about taking off those nostalgia glasses and focusing as much on what is better now as focusing on what isn't.

 

 

 

Yes they did try a lot of new stuff, and not all of it worked.  I have said this before and I will repeat it: BGS CANNOT tell a good story.  Obsidian can tell a good story (New Vegas had a much better story than FO3 or FO4) and they really should have BGS build the world and Obsidian write the story.

 

I don't know much about those kinds of music as I mainly listen to classical and other instrumental music. I have friends who listen to Punk and I freely admit that I don't understand it.

 

Minecraft is Lego for adults, not BGS games. And since all my Lego people still have yellow heads, and I'm not actually familiar with Johnny Adventure or Bionical....now I feel old. MAUDE! WHERE ARE MY BIFOCALS?  

 

 

 

 

Incorrect? Morrowind flat out had more content, that's a fact.

 

Copy-Paste was overly used in Morrowind's side content. The MQ and some of the guild questlines were all great (plus the DLC quests were good too). However, Morrowind's "more content" is actually lesser than you think. Majority of Morrowind's side content is basically copy-pasted stories with slight edits. Usually, when you do something Morrowind, you basically just witness a good % of it's content, and things gets very repeat-able over time. And this isn't just quests, but dungeons, areas, etc were copy-pasted way too much. NPCs, for the most part, all had the exact same personalities and said the exact same stuff (Unless their special)... And I can keep going on.

 

The newer Bethesda games may have less quests and factions, but a lot of other elements has been enhanced and added onto to fix that. A lot more NPCs had personality given to them, and actual interesting things to say about themselves. Every area in the game (Skyrim and Fallout 4) are all unique from one another, and have unique stories to them. Even including the wilderness, which is full of different small areas to find which aren't marked on the map. Side Quests, themselves, also gotten a lot of nice attention to them from Oblivion and onward.

 

There is a lot more attention to detail in the newer games which adds a lot more to the game to do, than you think. If you're all about quests and factions, and don't care about this stuff... Then that's fine. That's your preference. But don't be ignorant and think that these improvements don't exists at all because there are less of what you want.

 

 

 

Sure because "Go help this settlement with animals" "Go help this settlement with raiders" and "Go build a new settlement here" aren't copy/pasted at all.  Please don't try and bullshit us buddy.  We've played Fallout 4. If the settlement quests were limited to the Minutemen then I might be able to overlook it, but they aren't, the Railroad has them as well!  And no, the 30 second audio file (tops) that I get about an NPC's backstory is not a substitute for a description of their home province (Morrowind), their job/trade/class (Morrowind), and a description of their knowledge of the local area, rumors, gossip, news, general knowledge regarding local fauna, possible quests in the area, the major guilds and factions, which included no less than three main local factions, two churches, as well as fighters, mages, thieves and possibly even assassin guilds, and the army - in which game? Let me think now.....MORROWIND!   Don't start telling me about how I shouldn't be ignorant. 

 

To be fair, I don't think that they were all the same in Oblivion either.

 

There are 12 Aylied ruins with the exact same loadout, same loot in the same areas, same traps in the same area, etc. Just different enemies... And that's just one loadout.

 

The only places which got more attention tends to be related to the MQ or one of the Guild's Questlines. Everything else is highly copy-pasted.

 

 

There are 53 Aylied Ruins in Oblivion (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Places (Yes, I counted and No I did not include The Old Way and yes it does include DLC))  as opposed to the 25 Dwemer ruins (if you include everything in Blackreach as a separate location and include the DLC) (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Places).  Sorry, but the "exact same loadout" excuse doesn't fly when there are that many locations, because there are instances when those Dwemer  ruins having similar loot in similar locations with a similar number of enemies between each loot drop.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah. I mean it's not as if you're the one resorting to insults to cover the fact that they can't back up their facts with evidence. Oh wait ... it's actually just like that, isn't it? My bad.

 

This is exactly what I am saying, you are being so idiotic and stupid. 

 

 

 

So you claim to understand what Doc is saying about insulting people and then the next thing you do is call him both stupid and an idiot?  

 

 

 

[Guest]

Odd opinion here. I didn't play Bethesda games growing up, I wasn't allowed to. In fact I only played Skyrim as my first one in 2013. Then their other games more recently. So, maybe I can just throw a different perspective in the hat?

 

I don't think the core of Skyrim (vanilla) is a good game. What I find interesting the world itself and how everything fits into the TES lore. Funnily enough, I actually think Oblivion is the best game on the TES side, even with the flaws, to me, it has the best ratio of depth-to-sacrifice. There are parts that I think Morrowind did better, and Oblivion did too. Overall though, I think that Oblivion did the best job of sacrificing some of the good in Morrowind for new aspects in other places. Skyrim, on the other hand, I think is a bad extreme. Without mods, I just feel like I'm a god that can do everything more than I did in Oblivion, and much more than in Morrowind.

 

On the Fallout side, (I haven't played Fallout 1)... I... don't think I actually like any of the games. I spent some time researching the story of the world and was interested in it too, but when I actually played the games (Started with Fallout 3), I think I actually hated it. On the other hand, I thought New Vegas was actually pretty okay. Even moreso, I cannot bring myself to even complete Fallout 4. When I hear 'what you can do' or look at some things that mods 'fix' in the game, I find myself starting it up again and giving it a try. But still, I can't help but feel like the game (design-wise) is outdated. I would easily believe the game came out in 2012-2013 if I didn't know any better. We all have different opinions, and I side with Bethesda's older games being better than their newer ones. Doc's post about chasing the magic of previous games seems to fit.

 

I don't think of Bethesda as one entity, and I'm sure there are parts of the team that are trying to break down how to please everyone down into bullet points, but I still imagine that there are newer developers who joined Bethesda with the intention to simply make good games. The same way there are probably many parts of the team that have retired since working on those older games.

 

Bethesda is different now, and maybe we can hope that they'll choose to switch back to pleasing the minority of buyers that want to spend hundreds of hours into the game, create mods, find themselves immersed in the story; the people that like more traditional RPGs and would like to see them with today's technology. Or not. The majority most likely does just wanted to run through the game on one character, have a great time by their own preferences, and be done with the game.

 

Still, we have the ability to make great games with smaller teams now. I imagine that will only become easier. Maybe in the future we'll have the Triple A companies focus on pleasing as many people as possible and the indie companies focusing on their specific niche groups? Just a thought.

(New Vegas was Obsidian, right? Well.. poopy)

[Valgo]

 

Sadly they were. Especially the Oblivion Gates you mentioned. After I had seen like four of them I got bored because two out of those four looked exactly the same. Personally I didn't like them much in the first place but I can admit that that is on me as much as it is on the Game.

We-e-e-ll... there's only one Blackreach, and that's exactly the same as itself!

 

OK, I'm being flippant, I know. Seriously though, they do have a similar sort of alien grandeur to them. The whole of Merunes Dagon's demesne looks always looks as if it's about to clench and crush you entirely. It's not a comfortable place, but I think it shows every bit as much creativity as Blackreach. Of course, if we were invited to run raids into Blackreach every five hundred yards in Skyrim, I imagine that would get old pretty fast as well.

 

 

Well back to topic: But Bethesda Games didn't change as much. It's more like a Band which changed their style a bit over the years which pretty much every Band does. The overall stile is still the same and you recognize them immediately but maybe they just put more effort in some sick solos than a catchy chorus these days or the other way around.

 

 

Less so with Skyrim though, and far less so with Fallout 4.

 

You talk about punk: I used to be a big fan of Bob Geldof's old band - The Boomtown Rats. First album was good punky stuff. Second one was getting a bit silly in places, but still had that hard edge to it. Then they did "I don't like Mondays" and my heart sank when I heard it. It remains the band's stand-out hit and is arguably their most accomplished track ... but it's also the last good one they did as far as I know. Listening to it back then I had this premonition that this was the way things were going to be henceforth - style over substance, and so it proved.

 

Skyrim, from where I sit looks like Bethesda's "Mondays". Fallout 4 is shaping up to be their "Banana Republic". I fear it's all downhill from here.

 

And for what it's worth, I still don't think the Rats ever bettered "Looking After Number One".

 

Hahah yeah well that is why I wouldn't compare Blackreach to the Oblivion Gates as it's a whole region, not a dungeon.

You could compare the Dwemer Cities to them however and my point stands that they looked familiar, obviously, but never exactly the same.

There was never a point were I thought I'd rather be somewhere else in the game than in the dwemer dungeon I was currently running around while I usually just thought "Good god, make them disappear" whenever I saw an Oblivion Gate. I guess being shot at with fireballs whenever I was near one didn't help making it easy to just ignore them for good.

This might lie in the eye of the beholder but in my opinion there were way too many of them.

 

I cannot say much about those Bands you mentioned but I do get what you are saying. I for one am really open to Bands changing their sound. Sometimes it gets worse as seen with In Flames, sometimes it gets better over time as seen with Machine Head.

 

It's really just a path they follow and it's up to you if you keep on following them or not and depends on your very own taste buuuut I guess we completely lost the topic.

 

So to cut Beth some slack: While there are admittedly things that were better back in the day there are things that are better now.

In the next Game there will be things they have improved which in return will lead to less focus on something else which means compared to older Games will whatever 'that' is be worse. Duh.

And I am not talking about the Graphics. Tes and Fallout Graphics were always pretty much the at the required graphical minimum during the time of their release.

The very first thing I always install is a mod that makes the PC/NPC's look like Humans.

I will admit they did put much more thought and time in the character creator this time with Fallout 4. Sure overall the game will look old in 3 years at best but the humans will always look like humans. Fo3 and Oblivion had bad looking characters even for their time.

 

 

 

-------

Disclaimer

------

 

Obviously I exaggerated above at least twice in like every sentence but that was intentional.

And I'm definitely no one that says New stuff is always better ala Barney Stinson

 

 

 

 

I've read a few comments about how much better the Witcher 3 was. Well I loved that Game, the characters were amazing and the freedom how to handle different situations was superb. But did I want to go out to explore the World? No. Did I play my own Character? No. I played Gerald. It's a whole different approach, much closer to Bioware Games than Bethesda Games. The comparison doesn't make as much sense as some people like to believe.

 

 

 

Yes, Morrowind and Oblivion had issues. And I will say that there is no such thing as a perfect game.  Also, I see your image and raise you another.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Moving on from graphics: I started playing Bethesda Games with Oblivion. I raided a LOT of dungeons and had my share of fun until I got bored because they looked all the same and so did the Overworld. Repetitive and empty. Still the Game had its upsides.

Next Game in the Series: Skyrim. Suddenly there are not two dungeons that are the same. Sure crypts look all very familiar but they are never the same. They are all hand crafted and heeey look here a journal next to a corpse. Ah poor guy, was left by his partner who seemingly gave up on their goal. Oh I can actually jump up that waterfall. A little bit of wandering later there is a second corpse, trapped. Wait so the guy didn't leave his friend? He just died? Damn that is sad. Okay let's finish things up here I've seen an interesting building at the other side of the River. Timeskip! Well there is only one room but look! there is a pedestial. I should totally touch that thing on it. Timeskip! Thing started to glow, I am trapped. It flies around me...so how do I get outta hereeeeee where did the floor go? I am falling for an eternity and land in some kind of underwater lake. Nice. Go up through tunnels to see the light of the day again, killed a bunch of Falmers, Chaurus and Trolls because why not. Oh what do my eyes see? A dwemer tower! Nice, let's see TIMESKIP wooohoo here are giant glowing mushrooms and a long lost City Underground? I'll spend the next few hours in a whole new Region.

 

It is a BethSoft game, and this is part of my main point, EXPLORING IS FUN!  That is the problem with FO4, exploring is NOT fun.  This is kind of a problem I have with all the Fallout games, the enemy density outside is much higher than I feel it should be but the enemy density inside is lower than I'd like, mostly because of limitations from the console or game engine. (FO1 & FO2 this is an issue but less of one due to the different mode of travel in those games.)  I feel that in some of the southern areas of FO4 I can't move 10 feet without something trying to kill me. I want to explore and find a cave filled with nasty critters or crazy people, not have the nasty critters or crazy people charge me and then have a different kind charge me less than a minute later. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I couldn't hear you over the fun I had playing through the Game with my eight character I think. 

 I've got over 150 different characters from Skyrim not counting all the saves I've deleted. (And yes they all take up a stupid amount of HDD space, and I really should delete more of them.) What's your point?  I still miss begin able to swap out greaves and pauldrons and have a gauntlet on my left hand and a glove on my right and wear clothes under my armor like a sane person would and a robe over everything else. That doesn't affect my enjoyment of exploring.

 

 

 

They tried a lot new stuff with Fallout 4. Voiced dialogue, a more intense story telling (which it was, doesn't matter what you think of the story), building settlements or Followers I actually care about for the first time ever. Personally I preferred it over Fallout 3 and New Vegas buuuut I can easily see why everyone says NV was the best one because it just was but it doesn't have to be the one I enjoyed the most, does it?

Doesn't mean I have to enjoy the best Game the most.

 

To come up with a comparison: Knowing that Classic, Jazz or Technical Metal are among the most sophisticated music genres out there doesn't prevent one from enjoying a Punk Rock Concert.

 

And going back to the actual matter at hand (what this thread really is/ has become, not what stands in the thread title) and going with another comparison:

Bethesda Games are like Lego. It doesn't look as good as action figures, it doesn't make you as smart as training your brain with chess and it isn't as flashy as your Hot Wheels Collection but it is damn fine and you can play/ build EVERYTHING with that Lego Sets. You can even customize it by using other Lego sets or just gluing completely different stuff to it.

 

And all I am seeing here are people who are mad that Lego Minifigures don't have yellow skin anymore like they used to have..

 

My favorite Lego Sets are still from the Johnny/ Adventure or old Bionical Stuff but I can easily admit that Star Wars Lego Sets are much cooler nowadays if you get my point x)

It's about taking off those nostalgia glasses and focusing as much on what is better now as focusing on what isn't.

 

 

 

Yes they did try a lot of new stuff, and not all of it worked.  I have said this before and I will repeat it: BGS CANNOT tell a good story.  Obsidian can tell a good story (New Vegas had a much better story than FO3 or FO4) and they really should have BGS build the world and Obsidian write the story.

 

I don't know much about those kinds of music as I mainly listen to classical and other instrumental music. I have friends who listen to Punk and I freely admit that I don't understand it.

 

Minecraft is Lego for adults, not BGS games. And since all my Lego people still have yellow heads, and I'm not actually familiar with Johnny Adventure or Bionical....now I feel old. MAUDE! WHERE ARE MY BIFOCALS? 

 

 

 

Oh my don't jump to conclusions here, as I said right above or under picture that I am not someone who would say that.

Except if you got that and you actually mean to say that the new Cola is better which is entirely possible but I don't drink Coke Cola so I wouldn't have an idea about that matter.

And now I am confused x)

 

Well that is exactly my point. Exploring in Skyrim, to me, was massively more fun than in Oblivion. I feel like they have put much more thought and time in making exploring actually worth your while with no more Copy&Paste Dungeons and so many places that just immersive and good because they actually tried to this time.

It's the same with Fallout 4, I liked exploring things much more than in Fo3 or NV. I agree that exploring itself is much more fun in TES Games hence I do prefer them over Fallout any day.

Fallout 4 at least had regions like the glowing sea were there were a lot of interesting places to find. Damn the Radiation though.

But yeah TES > Fallout for multiple reasons, the exploring factor being one of them.

 

Damn that are a lot of characters I salute you. What I wanted to say is however that I take a filled and immersive world like Skyrims over the ability to customize my character slots as much even though I am a huge fan of creating and customizing said characters.

Hell whenever I play a famale character the armour consists of dozens of parts from skimpy armor mods which results in one single non skimpy armour.

That is sadly not possible for males because Modders don't support it as much.

Abolishing the class system for example is something I really support because it takes away from my freedom to skill my character the way I want to.

 

About the Lego thing: Well what shall I say? I am a kid of the ninties xD

 

 

Sorry to both of you if I missed something. I have no idea how to split posts so I have to scroll up and down all the time which is confusing.

[Zor2k13]

The worst thing about exploring in fallout 4 for me was finding those dam power armor suits just standing around. Would have been better to find them as parts without the dam frame but nope and having to find a place to store frames one at a time was so stupid. I couldn't really enjoy exploring because that and those giant bugs that somehow evade bullets as if they were moving slower than molasses. Even with a later game character and maxed out gauss rifle those things can just dodge no problem. Makes the early explorer weapons like pipe rifles completely useless.

 

The only way beth can save themselves is to make some kind of HUGE multi start game world where there is no central story just a story relevant to whatever start the player chooses. Then tie in the importance of the actions of that playthrough to whatever next start the player does somewhere else in the game world oh and make a game world much MUCH bigger so that those multi start options are just too far away to conflict with each other. There could be a central story and there could be a bunch of side stories in different regions so more people are willing to play the game instead of being put off by a crappy main game start with crap writing and boring sims grind.

[Varamayne]

Lots of talk about FO4. I feel like I have to actually play it now to keep up with the conversation.