Alternate Races - ideas and lore

Kit Kitten · June 15, 2016

Why select your race at the very beginning of the game?

You can get out of the Vault 111 and then change your race, like how we do in oblivion

Going strictly by the mechanics of it, sure.

But from an RP perspective (which is most of the reason for playing a non-vanilla race), it simply won't work. RP'ers ABSOLUTELY HATE having no alternative other than console commands. Adding a new race in a sensible manner CANNOT be done with how the game handles character creation currently. There's no "race option" like there was in Oblivion and Skyrim. So simply injecting one at character creation is not an option like it was for those games.

Ideally, four things are necessary to make sense out of adding a new race to FO4:

1) An alternative character creation process that allows for race/gender selection (since the vanilla method can't work because of the gender swap issue)

2) An alternative means of starting the main quest post character creation (for those who want to start in Sanctuary Hills/Vault111/Vault111Cryo) (easy if you can sort #1 first)

3) An alternative means of advancing the main quest to a point post character creation (for those who don't want to bother with the vanilla start) (again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

4) Alternative starting cell(s) allowing for #3 to take place (and again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

Custom races need to flow into and within the game as naturally as vanilla races, or they come off perceived as hacked together, artificial additions just plopped into the game, making no real sense at all. And they need to do so without resorting to console commands to work. Because if they do, and the issues I pointed out are sorted after the fact, newer, better, and more naturally flowing races WILL doom them to obscurity.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy here, honestly. I'm just letting you know the reality of it. Between the lack of a selectable race option, and the shared skeleton gender swap issue, then there's only the console command method.

I've created more races than I care to remember (many I released, many others I didn't). I hope to create even more for FO4. But I WILL NOT even consider it before they can fit into the game sensibly, and in a naturally flowing manner that doesn't require chopping them into the game through the console. And I doubt any other serious race modder will either.

Trykz

Makes perfect sense. For your first point maybe that's a feature that could end up in a future version of expired's Looks Menu or related mod. I've seen Expired's work in Skyrim and its pretty damn impressive, though we may have to wait for the Fallout 4 Script Extender to get more advanced. Your remaining points look like they could be covered by a mod similar to Arthmoor's Alternate Start mod for Skyrim. I saw that there were a couple of alternate start mods for Fallout 4 on the Nexus but neither one seemed anywhere near as thorough as Arthmoor's work but it is still early so anything can happen.

xenic · June 15, 2016

Why select your race at the very beginning of the game?

You can get out of the Vault 111 and then change your race, like how we do in oblivion

Going strictly by the mechanics of it, sure.

But from an RP perspective (which is most of the reason for playing a non-vanilla race), it simply won't work. RP'ers ABSOLUTELY HATE having no alternative other than console commands. Adding a new race in a sensible manner CANNOT be done with how the game handles character creation currently. There's no "race option" like there was in Oblivion and Skyrim. So simply injecting one at character creation is not an option like it was for those games.

Ideally, four things are necessary to make sense out of adding a new race to FO4:

1) An alternative character creation process that allows for race/gender selection (since the vanilla method can't work because of the gender swap issue)

2) An alternative means of starting the main quest post character creation (for those who want to start in Sanctuary Hills/Vault111/Vault111Cryo) (easy if you can sort #1 first)

3) An alternative means of advancing the main quest to a point post character creation (for those who don't want to bother with the vanilla start) (again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

4) Alternative starting cell(s) allowing for #3 to take place (and again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

Custom races need to flow into and within the game as naturally as vanilla races, or they come off perceived as hacked together, artificial additions just plopped into the game, making no real sense at all. And they need to do so without resorting to console commands to work. Because if they do, and the issues I pointed out are sorted after the fact, newer, better, and more naturally flowing races WILL doom them to obscurity.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy here, honestly. I'm just letting you know the reality of it. Between the lack of a selectable race option, and the shared skeleton gender swap issue, then there's only the console command method.

I've created more races than I care to remember (many I released, many others I didn't). I hope to create even more for FO4. But I WILL NOT even consider it before they can fit into the game sensibly, and in a naturally flowing manner that doesn't require chopping them into the game through the console. And I doubt any other serious race modder will either.

Trykz

Makes perfect sense. For your first point maybe that's a feature that could end up in a future version of expired's Looks Menu or related mod. I've seen Expired's work in Skyrim and its pretty damn impressive, though we may have to wait for the Fallout 4 Script Extender to get more advanced. Your remaining points look like they could be covered by a mod similar to Arthmoor's Alternate Start mod for Skyrim. I saw that there were a couple of alternate start mods for Fallout 4 on the Nexus but neither one seemed anywhere near as thorough as Arthmoor's work but it is still early so anything can happen.

For a natural flow, how about this. You do the 1st part of the story, get into the pod, see the cutscene involving shaun.

Then an institute scientist makes a comment about "the experiment blah blah blah" and you get a character creation screen upon exiting the pod. The idea is they do something to you/your pod and when you get out you "look in a mirror."

CanadianBlueBeer · June 16, 2016

hmm... suppose could do it as part of the cutscene after finishing the main quest.

(changing race while looking for your son no matter how you do it before then is going to be a LOT of work.

Say you become an elf. Unless you change him to be an elf (half-elf?) the main quest would seem silly.

Now, if the game engine, which does change his looks based on what you do during char creation, makes him

look half elf, then we'd be golden.

Still a lot of work, but much more doable, and RP sensible.

Leob70 · June 18, 2016

As for the mutation it would best be inserted after Shaun leaves as if it happens before not only would Shaun have to be changed but your spouse as well, and if it happens after it would be logical that Shaun was not affected.

In concern with being able to edit your race racemenu is our best hope and F4SE should help with transitions.

As for the creation kit i am unsure of its capabilities but it should be sufficient.

Lore wise the mutagen does not have to be created from or even share any properties with the FEV and you are in that pod for a long time meaning it would have plenty of time to take affect.

I would definitely like to see a Deathclaw hybrid race and maybe a compainion too.

LeFlemard · June 18, 2016

By looking at how Bethesda did it :

Preload 2 base character, one male (which is pc) and one female
When hitting "sex" button, move female char in front (simpler solution : move camera point)
when exiting char editor:
- If pc choose male
  1. lock pc 3rdperson view
  2. replace pc char with edited base male
  3. unlock pc 3rd person view
- If pc choose female
  1. Del female char
  2. create edited male char npc
  3. lock pc 3rdperson view
  4. replace pc char with edited base female
  5. unlock pc 3rd person view
done

Maybe by using the same principle, but not only using 2 chars but same amount as different races for pc, and deleting unnecessary ones at the end, we could make a Gamestart racemenu...

Would require a large cell tho (thinking about place for at least 10 pc+npcs races, a mean for script to know about new races installed (maybe an external updater for the script which recompile it?), dunno if doable tho.

For partial mutation, a framework would be needed which would hold all the different mutation models (2 for each mutation (one by gender) multiplied by amount of mutable race), when applying the mutation it would modify player meshes to correspond to apply mutation, with enough variables you could restrict equipment depending of player mutation (by adding a check at each armor for each mutation type that restrict it). The meshes of the framework would have to batchable by bodyslide tho...

Arialna Songbird · June 19, 2016

For partial mutation, a framework would be needed which would hold all the different mutation models (2 for each mutation (one by gender) multiplied by amount of mutable race), when applying the mutation it would modify player meshes to correspond to apply mutation, with enough variables you could restrict equipment depending of player mutation (by adding a check at each armor for each mutation type that restrict it). The meshes of the framework would have to batchable by bodyslide tho...

That in and of itself is a tall order, but not unheard of... While it would be difficult, that very same idea could lead to a sort of "Chimera" look. While I don't mean "Popular Fantasy" Chimera, I mean as it's name means.

"The term chimera has come to describe any mythical or fictional animal with parts taken from various animals, or to describe anything composed of very disparate parts, or perceived as wildly imaginative, implausible, or dazzling."

Now, as that hints, it would add a lot more customization, but would also lead to the view of taking the idea from some games... Like "Corruption of Champions", for example.

I'd love to see this kind of idea birthed, expanded, and built upon, but the fact remains that some might have an indication on how to proceed, while others do not. I doubt the majority of people that create mods, would understand the techniques involved, but it is a good thought to it's approach.

Now, that I read over what I quoted again, I see you're probably referring to a "full-partial"... as in, while not fully the creature that the mutation is based upon, it's not as partial as say, having just a Deathclaw's Right forearm and hand, and by extension, claws. But having modifications to multiple areas. Essentially a "full-hybrid" of sorts.

The situation with the Deathclaw's forearm, would restrict any armor that one might choose to want to add atop that spot, but that in itself is limited in the current iteration, as the armor comes in 1 of 5 types (not including the under-layer, or the helmets). Which regard the Full Torso, Right/Left Arm, and Each Leg, as a full piece, and not parts of a piece.

The idea of mixing parts of the Wasteland's creatures (or even those not normally seen, but wanted), is an idea I'd love to see.

A Deathclaw's Arm or tail, the Mirelurk's chitinous Pincer or shell, and other such combinations would be amazing. But as this would require something akin to a Biotic/Genetic Version of the Automatron DLC, I doubt people would be able to complete it easily.

Leob70 · June 19, 2016

I looked into some of the posts noting the issues related to power armour.

Instead of just taking what you look like and showing it underneath power armour actually changes you race and only has a few frames with different outfits.

It checks if you are wearing the outfits and if none of them are found defaults to one with road leathers.

If you could inject into the script a framework for checking races instead it could allow you to have a custom made frame for each race (Unless you disable it for a race.)

It would be best if this is not introduced individually by each race mod as that might cause conflicts and instead be created as a framework.

The navi power armour frame works by checking if you are wearing a Vault Suit then changes into a frame with a custom mesh so i believe it can be done as long as we have the get race script.

sammeadows · June 28, 2016

Best way past the initial starting zone is http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13762/?

Now for race smidging about, it'd be hard to figure out, but the only way I see past the ears and tails really is using one of the many clothing locations, that way if you wear, say, a hat like Valentine's and you've got a Deer race you can keep wearing the ears and antlers and all, but say wear a helmet or the NCR Ranger helmet (if you use that mod, I use it all the time, so yeah) you can take off the ears and leave the antlers, take off the tail if it's going to clip too heavily but having something like a tail of any kind, wearing either skimpy armor or having tighter fitting clothing (shorts, pants, whathaveyou) the tail can still work with and stay, obviously won't be overrided by a hat/helmet or whatever in case you believe it fits. That mod starts you off in the institute and all, so you start as a synth and depending on your occupation and all that that you select on the terminal you get thrown wherever the modder has it set (if you have the NCR faction you spawn in the Lonely Church or whatever it is on the far west of the Commonwealth) I do hope someone gets this set up because I'd love to see it! I don't care if it's like a deer or bunny with the human face still and have antlers and a tail, being sorta like the whole cat ears+tail idea, just give the deer type the tail and the antlers and you're pretty set, I just hope something of quality like the other mods that Skyrim had shared.

diago · July 2, 2016

For a natural flow, how about this. You do the 1st part of the story, get into the pod, see the cutscene involving shaun.

Then an institute scientist makes a comment about "the experiment blah blah blah" and you get a character creation screen upon exiting the pod. The idea is they do something to you/your pod and when you get out you "look in a mirror."

I agree with this guy. And, as for lore, it could even be said the change was part of some experiment the Vault did on you while in their 'care'.

Miarc007 · July 2, 2016

For a natural flow, how about this. You do the 1st part of the story, get into the pod, see the cutscene involving shaun.

Then an institute scientist makes a comment about "the experiment blah blah blah" and you get a character creation screen upon exiting the pod. The idea is they do something to you/your pod and when you get out you "look in a mirror."

I must agree that this would work well as an insertion point, plenty of potential to create multiple divergent points.

*Delzaron* · July 2, 2016

Alternate start for sure (include future LL mods !)

Races :

- deathclaw, deathclaw hybrids :

- mutants (ghouls, elfs, kitsune, etc...), cannibal horror.

- super mutants (we could include another kind of supermautants, sexualized this time : FEV new version !) (that's actually a good mod idea : solve the super mutants sterility problem !)

- raiders

- jelly (another kind of mutant)

Slyan · July 8, 2016

In skimming over some posts, I might've missed someone mentioning it but there was modding done to Fallout NV that added in Catgirls at least, heavily anime-style and extremely pink, overwhelmingly pink in fact but still... it's been done before. I've no doubt there's a Japanese modder already at work on it haha. I ended up here in my search for said mod that sadly does not seem to exist as of yet.

Keryo Wolfe · July 10, 2016

Looking through this post, I gotta say I love me some furry races, and I understand you want to keep with the lore as to how to introduce these new races. While I have to agree with others and say "Screw Lore, it's your mod, do what you wanna do", and me not being a guy who doesn't care for being lore friendly (you're talking to a guy who has X-wings, Minecraft, and Warhammer in his Skyrim), I do admit that trying to introduce anthro furries into the game in a way that makes sense has a bit of appeal to it. To the point that I can throw a couple of ideas at you.

Idea 1:

Now the general idea for this is that a "retired" Vault 111 scientist, and by retired I mean that... well... Vault was commandeered and destroyed, not a lot they could do but hide and cower in fear of the marauders until it was safe to come out (and I say "they" because the gender of said scientist would be up to you, although, personally, I would go female on that matter, but that's just me) Anyway, after the incident with the vault, said scientist struck out into the wastelands and began to experiment with the radioactive air and water as well as any mutagens they could find, in an effort to possibly strengthen themselves faster and with less effort. Eventually this led to experimentation with animal DNA, which ultimately leads to the scientist testing on themself to ultimately become an anthro furry (The species of the scientist should be randomized each game. I feel it kinda adds a bit of curiosity, so every time a new game is started, the player is like "What's that whackjob look like THIS time?" but again, just my opinion.) The scientist will then go on to say that after doing extensive testing, that they can safely turn anyone into any animal they desire, granted you can find some DNA to work with. However before you begin looking for DNA, the scientist will take a sample of your current DNA so that in case you want to revert back to your regular self, there's that failsafe. After that, all you have to do is find the animal dna you want to become, bring it back and bam. Finding the DNA can range from searching for the animals, dead or alive, throughout the game world up to finding untouched samples in other vaults that did cryogenic freezing.

Idea 2:

Now this one is a bit out there, possibly pushes the limits of the game lore and may be a bit harder to implement, but hear me out. The idea behind this is that way before the Vault-Tec guy shows up, and right before you head towards the mirror to customize your look, a doctor shows up making a housecall to check up on your infant child. as he leaves, he ask you and your mate if you're willing to try out an experimental device (i'm thinking a bracelet on the arm opposite of the Pipboy), to which you accept. Once the device is on you, your mate and your child, the device allows you to change your species in the mirror menu, and of course whatever species you and your mate become, affects the child's species as well, which would probably make for some interesting hybrid kids. An alternate version of this is that before you leave the Vault and enter the customization menu again, you find the doctor in the Vault itself and he hooks you up before you head out.

As for furry types that should be in it, here's a few that I'd like to see:

Wolves:

Now given that dogs still exist after the nukes hit, I think it's fair to say that wolves may have survived as well. Besides, who doesn't love a good wolfman? Abilities would included heightened speed, higher attack power and Increased Senses aka higher accuracy in VATS.

Skunks:

This one probably doesn't make a lot of sense to you all, however after playing with this mod in New Vegas, it actually seems very viable in my view and definitely a race I wanna see: http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/45351 Abilities would include increased speed and ability to stun opponents via melee (implies that the skunk stench had something to do with it)

Reptiles:

Again, another race that seems to make sense to me. Not sure if the Argonians from Skyrim have anything to do with it, but I see them existing somehow. Besides, can't have furries without scalies. Abilities would include taking less damage and inflicting more, and jumping higher. (Seriously, have you seen lizards in Florida? Those suckers can jump high.)

Sharks:

Yeah, I said it. dunno HOW they'd fit in... but try to look me in the eye and say you haven't contemplated becoming a shark man or a shark girl at some point... yeah, that's what I thought. Abilities would include Increased accuracy and Invulnerability to infected water.

Birds:

I BELIEVE I CAN FLYYYYYYYYYY... sorry... but yeah, avians, man. Become an eagleman... for MURICA!! Abilities include Increased accuracy both in and out of VATS, and flight (or at least extremely heightened jump if flight is not a possibility)

Cats:

Another household animal that somehow survived nuclear annihilation. Arguable Variants that may have survived: Mountain lions, keeping the location of the game in mind. Abilities include Night Vision, heightened jump and Increased speed.

*Trykz* · July 10, 2016

hmm... suppose could do it as part of the cutscene after finishing the main quest.

(changing race while looking for your son no matter how you do it before then is going to be a LOT of work.

Say you become an elf. Unless you change him to be an elf (half-elf?) the main quest would seem silly.

Now, if the game engine, which does change his looks based on what you do during char creation, makes him

look half elf, then we'd be golden.

Still a lot of work, but much more doable, and RP sensible.

Actually, this already happens. Even with a custom race. I gave my iHuman test character Hot Pink hair. When I got into The Institute, the kid had the same skin tone as my character, and Hot Pink hair too LOL

Trykz

Keryo Wolfe · July 12, 2016

Actually, after revisiting the intro level, I realized that the same Vault-Tec doctor you encounter right before you get into the cryopod could actually be the one that could be used in my first idea. as for how HE survived for 200 years could easily be attributed to the animal DNA slowing his aging or something. OR he could possibly give you the device to trigger the species mutation from Idea 2 before you enter the pod, so that when you exit Vault 111 and trigger character creation before taking the elevator, you can freely change your species.

VokunGrohiik · July 15, 2016

'Lore' is whatever people make it. Look at what Bethesda did to FO and even their own Elder Scrolls. They rewrite it or totally ignore it. Players and modders don't need to be held to a higher standard than the devs are. Look at the androids in FO3 and now the Synths in FO4. Bethesda just pulled that out of their ass because there wasn't a lore precedent in FO before they added it. Modders can do the same thing. I mean, WHY NOT? FO4 is so far off kilter from the FO universe anyway it's not even funny. It's a brand name Zenimax owns until FO7 and that's how they're treating it; FO7, if the franchise lives that long.

On top of all of that it's a GAME so we as modders and players can add whatever we want. That doesn't mean people are required to download it or have room to bitch about nekogi girls in skimpy high-heeled power armor.

Fallout 3 actually featured the head of the SRB, and he asked the Wanderer for help to track down a generation 3 synth. Then in Fallout 4, his name is mentioned, and we're told he went missing after he went to the Capital Wasteland. I'd say that's a damn good example of Bethesda sticking to their own lore. They had the Institute planned out before it was even a thing! And they've had characters consistent between games, like MacCready who was in Fallout 3 and 4, and was ten years older in 4 than he was in 3. Consistency, yet again. Sure, a few things are inconsistent, but there's quite a lot that Bethesda stuck with.

However, I agree that if something is being modded into the game that isn't lore friendly, the mod author should not feel obligated to somehow jam it into the lore in some farfetched story that *could* be possible, but just doesn't make a whole load of sense and isn't really necessary. If people don't like it being un-lore-friendly, then they can just not download the mod, or come up with their own way to fit it in. Part of the fun is making up your own backstory, and not having it made up for you. We don't want Bethesda to make us a long starting sequence that locks us into a past we don't want; that's why people make Alternate Life mods. And we don't want a modder creating some backstory thing for our character because they're not a normal human.

Anyway, you should be able to just add ears and a tail to a CBBE body in the nif or something and make it a new body, I don't know. I know a guy's managed to port an argonian into Fallout 4, tail and all, so surely a neko shouldn't be any harder.

Idocrase · July 16, 2016

Something that occured to me in relation to a different mod, but which could apply to any mod that wants to add new races, abilities etc beyond those the game universe would normally contain, is The Master.

Fallout's antagonist, way back when, was really very keen on developing new strains of FEV in his pursuit of the perfect race to replace humanity. And after the events of Fallout, we know from encounters in New Vegas, that his Nightkin supermutants still exist, albeit perhaps in limited numbers. But they were smarter than the average supermutant, and followed instructions so it could be possible, in a way that would fit with existing lore, for a nightkin, or some other Master creation, could be wandering the wastes carrying a vial of FEV strain that could cause specific, racial mutations.

That way the mod can be written to say, have the nightkin find vault 111 some time after Shaun is taken (and the other inhabitants are safely dead), and experiment on the PC. Other mods might rely on you encountering the nightkin outside the vault and acquiring the FEV from them - perhaps in the form of a trader selling enhancements, or a guard protecting the Master's last and greatest experiment. It would leave the field open too, there could be dozens of such nightkin wandering about. Maybe several find vault 111 and you find other wandering around outside later.

It sidesteps any issues with the institute lore, but still /works/ with established history to some extent.

Hariyuki · July 18, 2016

Just stick to the alternate start mod. Better beginning anyway since you are not forced to have a child and a wife! http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13762/? just connect one of the computer choices to an area and use an npc to launch the quest explaining why you are a different race (FEV modified human most likely). Maybe even involve an entire section of story that can lead to you investigating a missing child....then you can continue your main quest by simply changing my son to a clients (job givers) lost son

D C · July 31, 2016

Guys!any downloads available?

tigerfrenzy · December 4, 2016

Progress! Silly progress though: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/19040/?

December 11, 2016

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20529/? Does that help?

NexusCron · March 2, 2017

You know what I want? A catgirl race, not like, furry one, more like an anime style catgirl race, cat ears, cat tail, ..possibly as attachments or something, or the tail bone working like it does in skyrim so that outfits don't replace the tail.

RicketsRaccoon · May 2, 2017

There is now the Start Me Up mod, which is an Alternate Start mod that can de-Shaunify things, and get past the "lore" problem (so I wake up as a Raccoon Raider, who had a bad dream about being an - ugh - human ..) AND a modder's resource mod that affects the player skeleton only.

Would those two things help?

Raposa Hunter · June 11, 2017

First, we need a racemenu mod, as in Fallout 3, NV and Skyrim, to choose how your character will be in the game. This only change of 2 genre in Real Time in fallout 4, will mess up everything at the time of applying to the game.

TanyaSapien · July 2, 2017

I've been a member for a while now and normally I just lurk, but this particular topic has had my eyebrow twitching ever since the creation kit dropped. We have the body texture swapping from tigerfrenzy, then we have the head swapping from FancyPants, and then there's the unique player framework to tie it together. Just swap out the absurd heads for a variety of fuzzy ones and you're halfway there. Even if you have to use a prebaked head instead of something personalized it's better than nothing. From there you just add X body part (tail, claws, wings, turtle shell, horns) as a force-equipped piece of gear in a seldom used slot, same as Skyrim wings and such.

The only real difficulties I'm seeing are with Shaun, but couldn't you just do a spoof character creation with a default head? Like, have it say you made your character as normal, then once all the events around Shaun compile and his child and adult forms are made, it treats your character's new furry race as a sidestop at a plastic surgeon. (AKA showracemenu) I mean, you're making a furry (or scaley) character in Fallout 4, I'm pretty sure the main quest line isn't exactly high on your priorities list or your tastes in human aesthetics very strict so a vanilla shaun shouldn't be troubling.

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