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Alternate Races - ideas and lore


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aww i dont want a companion... i want to be it myself :(

well as soon as the follower is done you will have the .nif and .dds files. You find them and then tinker along with Unique Player (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/3718/?) just so only your  player is a robot and not all the females suddenly become some for of synth and -- if you are like me -- try to find a story reason why people ask you to destroy robots when you are obviously one. 

So yeah, as soon as this follower mod appear (if it does) it would not take too long to make your own PC be like this (or to someone else to make such mod available)  

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Teenager. I know it's not really a race but you could RP as being the daughter. Some dialogue change or muting could make that work even more. Everytime it mentions "my baby," mute the dialogue and have it say "my little brother" in the text. 

 

~snip~

 

Eroti-tron, the robot sex toy. Look kinda human but with obvious wear (exposed circuits, rust,etc). Have an option to get repairs done at Good Neighbor. Auto max charisma, and all charisma perks from the start. Can't equip armor but can use Power Armor. I really hope this one happens but also hope it happens on LL with sexlab integration.

 

I quite like the "Teenager" option, especially because of the 17-19 year old sexually innocent exploitable fish-out-of-the-water, but I'm afraid that would be riding the very edge of what is considered acceptable, even for the sex-accepting, open minds here at Loverslab. Games don't typically let players assume the role of a fresh adult (18-19) in these... very mature scenarios, for lack of a better expression.

 

"Eroti-tron" would be a great playable race for LoversLabified playthrough, but we'd have to re-voice the whole game, or go with the silent path. Therefore, I'd designate the "Teenager" race as the priority, as re-voicing the player character to have a slightly younger male/female voice and refer to a brother rather than a son is much easier than tediously replacing nearly every encounter in the game (as most revolve around the PC being a parent from a vault).

 

 

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What I meant with the prewar hospital was more about back story than it actual happening in game, kind of like when you find a message or letter explain some of the characters recent past. like when Nora finds her lawyers certificate or Nate his old solider fatigues.

 

That pretty much the best you can do before alternate start mods for when you first create the character. The letter to refer to an incident or accident that happen either at the hospital or cause you to be sent to the hospital.

 

I like the Ideas you've generated, if such a mod does get created, I'd recommend have a optional faction tag trigger, that way you'll still can play out the original story you desire without getting blocked because of your race.

 

As far as I can tell, there are no race checks anywhere in the game. Skyrim had one that I recall (the infamous DB Chef quest), that required passing a race check to trigger the correct dialogue for the npc to pass the quest on to the next stage. As of now (after some weeks poking through the game files), I can find nothing in the quest data that could potentially break any quests or the game itself by playing as a custom race.

 

However, compatibility "between custom races" may be an issue. The main quest in particular. To be more precise, the initial gender swap during character creation. The player character has the usual unique ID (00000014) when customizing the male. But when switching to the female, the ID gets changed to a randomly generated ID depending on the preset you select. The female doesn't get the unique 00000014 ID until AFTER you complete customization and exit the character creation menu (when the actual gender swap takes place, hence the pause and autosave at this point).

 

It's for this reason that I'm thinking the surgery chair may be the only option for adding custom races via alternate start methods, thus allowing you to completely sidestep the vanilla character creation. Something like this:

 

You build race mods AND begin the game using a "race compatibility master file", that utilizes a mod-configurable starting cell (chosen by the race itself, so the chosen race mod handles starting location) for ALL custom races. Via scripting through F4SE, you inject a new "race" option into the showlooksmenu while locking the player into the surgery chair (so they're already in first person camera view with the showlooksmenu already open, just like the vanilla opening scene). Once the race is selected, character customized, and upon exiting the showlooksmenu, it dumps the newly created player character directly into the specials menu to set their desired options before starting the game. Upon exiting the specials menu, you trigger the MQ at the "Go Home" stage. Alternatively, use this moment to give the player the option of starting it right away, or delaying it until later via MCM type configuration.

 

I've been banging my head on this issue for a few weeks now, and this is the best I could come up with.

 

Trykz

 

correction: the identifier the female gets is not randomly based on selected preset. It's 000a7d37 across all presets. Just BEFORE the gender swap occurs, and the female character is confirmed as the player, the PC gets the 00000014 ID, the male gets 000a7d38, then pause and autosave.

 

There is currently no possible way to add a custom race to FO4 without first devising a method for alternatively starting the game, AND enabling select-able races other than human.

Edited by Trykz
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Here is another scenario for the apparition of furries:

 

1) Mutated furries should not be pretty, I think. It is unlikely (almost impossible) that their mutation would be stable... At the beginning at least. It would require thousands of years for the species to stabilize and evolution taking it's toll to make them beautiful again.

 

2) BUT, here come the trump card: The aliens. In fallout 3 mothership zeta, You get abducted by aliens and they want to conduct experience on humans. Why not on mutant furries? There probably aren't that much Murries (probably gonna have to write mutant furry a lot), so it's quite likely they would take an interest in you if you were one. They'd take you in and play with your DNA a bit, trying to understand it and stabilizing it to see the full extent of these mutation. If they learn to master these mutation, they could reproduce them on their own species.

 

3) Like every single experience, in a video game, you see an opportunity to run away. You start a rebellion on the spaceship and take control of it. You now added a new player home that you can teleport to and from, that look badass as hell and where you have access to alien technology and alien Knowledge on Murries to modify your own DNA and your follower DNA as much as you want to turn anyone in Murries and still keeping a bit of lore in the game.

 

4) Add a few unstable Murries in the world, not much, just to make the scenario that much more fitting to the world. Add a few supermutant with scales and stuff like it and there you got crappy Murries fitting the world and you as well as a few select one where stabilized, making your character pretty as well as those you want to be.

 

That seems to me quite a possible scenario to get pretty furries in this world.

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Guest teth365

Why not just have all furries be an Institute creation? They can make artifical humans from some soup and a car factory, why not just explain it as an Institute pervert is releasing his personal fetishes across the waste. This would allow modders to use already existing models and assets for their creations.

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BTW, has anyone already seen Swan in FO4? Sexy as fuck that tiny cutie, isn't it xD

 

And if Swan may exist, then hell why not furry, hybrid, sexy catgirls? Maybe the Institute tried to build up an army of genetically enhanced humans, as backup to their synths, with nightvision and jump power of cats, and they are the first results (used for other purposes? Forced to prostitute for research money?) Who really cares how deep you build their lore into the existing one?

 

Or custom synths with tails and such...

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Again, the problem is: how to get a custom race into the game?

 

I don't see how, and I've been pounding on this issue for 3 weeks now. Some sort of alternative starting method will be absolutely necessary, because of the manner in which Bethesda created the initial starting quest. In Skyrim, the character gender specific skeleton was attached at the race level, and inherited by all of the race's presets for either male or female. In FO4, BOTH genders utilize the SAME skeleton until the gender swap takes place for the female spouse upon confirming the character.

 

So simply injecting an alternative race and it's presets into that sequence is not likely going to happen. The initial starting sequence, and that ENTIRE branch of the Sanctuary Hills/Vault111/Vault111Cryo quests MUST be bypassed, so a new, selectable race menu structure can take over initial character creation at game start.

 

Bethesda really shafted race modding with the whole common skeleton "gender swap" thing  :(

 

I can do the whole race bit itself. But I have ZERO knowledge of altering/bypassing parts of the MQ for an alternate start.....

 

Adding and playing a fully functional custom race is not the same as "playing as a ghoul". Or a synth, child, supermutant, or any other vanilla race that might work. And even in some of those cases, you can't switch the gender because the game will immediately CTD. Race modding for FO4 has MANY hurdles to overcome. And it HAS to start with bypassing the parts of the MQ outlined above.

 

Trykz

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Again, the problem is: how to get a custom race into the game?

 

I don't see how, and I've been pounding on this issue for 3 weeks now. Some sort of alternative starting method will be absolutely necessary, because of the manner in which Bethesda created the initial starting quest. In Skyrim, the character gender specific skeleton was attached at the race level, and inherited by all of the race's presets for either male or female. In FO4, BOTH genders utilize the SAME skeleton until the gender swap takes place for the female spouse upon confirming the character.

 

So simply injecting an alternative race and it's presets into that sequence is not likely going to happen. The initial starting sequence, and that ENTIRE branch of the Sanctuary Hills/Vault111/Vault111Cryo quests MUST be bypassed, so a new, selectable race menu structure can take over initial character creation at game start.

 

Bethesda really shafted race modding with the whole common skeleton "gender swap" thing  :(

 

I can do the whole race bit itself. But I have ZERO knowledge of altering/bypassing parts of the MQ for an alternate start.....

 

Adding and playing a fully functional custom race is not the same as "playing as a ghoul". Or a synth, child, supermutant, or any other vanilla race that might work. And even in some of those cases, you can't switch the gender because the game will immediately CTD. Race modding for FO4 has MANY hurdles to overcome. And it HAS to start with bypassing the parts of the MQ outlined above.

 

Trykz

 

Why select your race at the very beginning of the game?

 

You can get out of the Vault 111 and then change your race, like how we do in oblivion

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Why select your race at the very beginning of the game?

 

You can get out of the Vault 111 and then change your race, like how we do in oblivion

 

 

Going strictly by the mechanics of it, sure.

 

But from an RP perspective (which is most of the reason for playing a non-vanilla race), it simply won't work. RP'ers ABSOLUTELY HATE having no alternative other than console commands. Adding a new race in a sensible manner CANNOT be done with how the game handles character creation currently. There's no "race option" like there was in Oblivion and Skyrim. So simply injecting one at character creation is not an option like it was for those games.

 

Ideally, four things are necessary to make sense out of adding a new race to FO4:

 

1) An alternative character creation process that allows for race/gender selection (since the vanilla method can't work because of the gender swap issue)

 

2) An alternative means of starting the main quest post character creation (for those who want to start in Sanctuary Hills/Vault111/Vault111Cryo) (easy if you can sort #1 first)

 

3) An alternative means of advancing the main quest to a point post character creation (for those who don't want to bother with the vanilla start) (again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

 

4) Alternative starting cell(s) allowing for #3 to take place (and again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

 

Custom races need to flow into and within the game as naturally as vanilla races, or they come off perceived as hacked together, artificial additions just plopped into the game, making no real sense at all. And they need to do so without resorting to console commands to work. Because if they do, and the issues I pointed out are sorted after the fact, newer, better, and more naturally flowing races WILL doom them to obscurity.

 

I'm not trying to be a killjoy here, honestly. I'm just letting you know the reality of it. Between the lack of a selectable race option, and the shared skeleton gender swap issue, then there's only the console command method.

 

I've created more races than I care to remember (many I released, many others I didn't). I hope to create even more for FO4. But I WILL NOT even consider it before they can fit into the game sensibly, and in a naturally flowing manner that doesn't require chopping them into the game through the console. And I doubt any other serious race modder will either.

 

Trykz

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Mmm.. If I were most people on Loverslab I wouldn't be concerned with Fallout lore because it's really going to restrict your possibilities. 

 

-Aliens in Fallout have always been non-canon easter eggs just like Dr. Who, Godzilla and Monty Python (aside from MZ which was an enormous mistake). BUT! Fallout 2 introduced a creature called a Wanamingo which was a far better alien concept than anything you see in Fallout 3, New Vegas or Fallout 4. From a lore perspective they went extinct; however, it'd be fairly easy to put it into a game and say some eggs escaped extermination. 

 

-Ghouls are still the recipients of racism in the Fallout universe as evidenced in Fallout 3. They would need to receive the treatment that Khajiit should have received in Skyrim. IIRC Ghouls are not allowed in Diamond City and they would most likely face discrimination elsewhere in the Commonwealth as well. They're also essentially walking corpses so in earlier games they would be falling apart, organs visible and have difficulty maintaining hygiene and maggots. 

 

-Super Mutants in Bethesda's new lore, or East Coast SMs, appear to be quite unintelligent. If you were to make a SM race then I'd suggest using a West Coast super mutant like Marcus from Fallout 2 and New Vegas. Super Mutants in Fallout 4 would most likely be shot on sight and would not be allowed in any settlements (probably not even Goodneighbor). 

 

-Synths shouldn't present an issue unless you're using Gen 1 or 2 synths in which case they'd be most likely shot on sight as well. 

 

-Furries... I think this would actually be quite a simple thing to accomplish. A mod in Fallout 2 is already accepted, even by NMA, that gives a companion from EPA that's kind of a cat/person (furry-lite). There's also cut content in the form of the Burrows which is a community of intelligent FEV mutated Racoons. 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ultimately if you work with cut content (I'd suggest digging through Van Buren stuff) and easter eggs then there's plenty more possibilities for races or adult mods. 

 

Edit: Don't forget about FEV, gene splicing and SCIENCE! which all provide the possibility for attractive furries. One shouldn't be restricted by radiation mutations. 

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Why select your race at the very beginning of the game?

 

You can get out of the Vault 111 and then change your race, like how we do in oblivion

 

 

Going strictly by the mechanics of it, sure.

 

But from an RP perspective (which is most of the reason for playing a non-vanilla race), it simply won't work. RP'ers ABSOLUTELY HATE having no alternative other than console commands. Adding a new race in a sensible manner CANNOT be done with how the game handles character creation currently. There's no "race option" like there was in Oblivion and Skyrim. So simply injecting one at character creation is not an option like it was for those games.

 

Ideally, four things are necessary to make sense out of adding a new race to FO4:

 

1) An alternative character creation process that allows for race/gender selection (since the vanilla method can't work because of the gender swap issue)

 

2) An alternative means of starting the main quest post character creation (for those who want to start in Sanctuary Hills/Vault111/Vault111Cryo) (easy if you can sort #1 first)

 

3) An alternative means of advancing the main quest to a point post character creation (for those who don't want to bother with the vanilla start) (again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

 

4) Alternative starting cell(s) allowing for #3 to take place (and again, easy if you can sort #1 first)

 

Custom races need to flow into and within the game as naturally as vanilla races, or they come off perceived as hacked together, artificial additions just plopped into the game, making no real sense at all. And they need to do so without resorting to console commands to work. Because if they do, and the issues I pointed out are sorted after the fact, newer, better, and more naturally flowing races WILL doom them to obscurity.

 

I'm not trying to be a killjoy here, honestly. I'm just letting you know the reality of it. Between the lack of a selectable race option, and the shared skeleton gender swap issue, then there's only the console command method.

 

I've created more races than I care to remember (many I released, many others I didn't). I hope to create even more for FO4. But I WILL NOT even consider it before they can fit into the game sensibly, and in a naturally flowing manner that doesn't require chopping them into the game through the console. And I doubt any other serious race modder will either.

 

Trykz

 

 

It's not elder scroll or other fallout game, but fallout 4. In the vanilla story the PC was a human with his/her own past , own voice (acturally they have own names). So it won't be lore friendly that you change to some race like a furry cat before you enter the refrigerator.

 

So instead of born with another race, mutated into another race is better

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It's not elder scroll or other fallout game, but fallout 4. In the vanilla story the PC was a human with his/her own past , own voice (acturally they have own names). So it won't be lore friendly that you change to some race like a furry cat before you enter the refrigerator.

 

So instead of born with another race, mutated into another race is better

 

 

A mutation that occurred overnight..... sure. I'm sure lots of roleplayers will be sure to find that entirely feasible  :rolleyes: The game itself doesn't matter. If the race doesn't flow seamlessly into the background, not the main story specifically, but the overall story, setting, and history, it may be well received by some, sure. But I wouldn't count on many.

 

But whatever...... I wish you luck. You're welcome to prove me wrong. I don't know about you or others, but I for one, will NOT console hack and chop a race into this game. Simply because I don't feel the game is worth the effort. Your mileage may vary...... and I'd never deter anyone from trying their hand at the CK for themselves  ;)

 

Trykz

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  • 4 weeks later...

I would so much enjoy playing a raccoon, a la Rocket.  A risen raccoon, not a messed-up human.

 

I think the idea they had for mutant raccoons was a good one, and there was no real reason to cut it out for somehow being "siliier" than anything else in this universe.  Face it, they have the same pre-adaptations for a technological survival path as our ape ancestors did - and there's nothing particularly special about apes.  And raccoons seem a lot smarter than monkeys.  I just don't see a problem with supermutants become dumb-heads, but raccoons getting smarter, and more apt to use tech.  They're both equally silly, really.  And the ghouls are a ridiculous concept, too; just because they started out human doesn't make them any less silly.

 

I don't really care about the problems the opening sequence might present, I just don't worry about stuff like that (and I could care less about Shaun.)  Basically, I just want to have a bad-ass raccoon blowing the hell out of everything.  :P

 

I wish I had the faintest clue as to how to use the CK.  :(

 

 

 

 

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I wish I had the faintest clue as to how to use the CK.  :(

 

I'm with you there...

 

Implementing new races wasn't as hard with New Vegas, since they had the "Races" menu, though it was just a human ethnicity selector. But that also leads into the points others have made, in that Bethesda railroaded you into a background/story. Not just talking about the main story, which gives no room for improvisation, but also about the fact that you are "Pre-War"... that's the biggest sticking point, in my perspective.

 

Being from that Era, there aren't many ways to "reasonably" argue for you being a new race. Most of the modifications to the races from back then, happened after the bombs fell. Be it by research to help humans stay alive in the aftermath (Ideas that lead to the FEV), anything done in the vaults, or through mutation. Regardless on if the mutation is from the 200+ years of adaptation to this "new" environment (which your character would be exempt from, due to the "Pre-War issue" I previously mentioned), Radiation exposure, or Chemically Caused.

 

One way I see around it, /could/ be caused by a Vault experiment, which unintentionally created a sort of "Werebeast" mutation... but this would lead to other issues, as that specific kind of mechanic would take a lot of work. 

 

Furthering why I believe this, would be that after the first "change" it would leave small traces, like improved senses/stats... With further use, leading to a perk, and ranks... Or just adding more on top, with additions based on creature, gene, so on and so forth...

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[...] Being from that Era, there aren't many ways to "reasonably" argue for you being a new race. [...] anything done in the vaults

[...]

One way I see around it, /could/ be caused by a Vault experiment, which unintentionally created a sort of "Werebeast" mutation... but this would lead to other issues, as that specific kind of mechanic would take a lot of work. [...]

 

Modders are wizards, of that I'm sure. So I truly believe, they'll find a way of implementing a race change during that cryo sleep sessions. Doesn't even need to be a werebeast thingy, maybe you are some kind of biohacking experiment, so you've got new skills as nightvision (even though it's useless for vanilla nights :P ), it could be an explanation of an "all-of-a-sudden" futa body or we could real create catgirls, where some DNS experiments went wrong as they wanted to give you some cat skills (higher jumping and things like that).

 

Possibilities are endless, and with all those radiation mutation and Vault-Tec experiments there is a lot of room for lore stretching :cool:

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I don't know if this has been brought up, but there are actually two kinds of Furries in the Fallout Universe.
 
First, the S'Lanter are anthro-racoons (you might call them... Radcoons? No, okay I'm sorry that was horribly bad). They were originally slated to be in the original games, but never got far through the design phase before being cut. However, a super secret terminal deep inside The Glow in Fallout tells us:

 

 

 

With batch 11-011, we have improved the mitotic by 43%. We have infected 53 raccoons with the new strain. In addition to the now expected size increase, behavioral tests confirmed an increase in intelligence and manual dexterity by 19 points on the Schuler-Kapp index. Unfortunately, several subjects escaped confinement and had to be hunted down and dispatched. Major Barneet ordered the remaining subjects terminated. Two pairs were unaccounted for.

 

So yeah. That right there is canon still. There are canonically sentient racoons somewhere in the world, we've just never seen them because they're basically a lot like Ewoks. Like... a very large lot.
 
Second, you have Deathclaws. They're sentient beings, and some of them have even been taught to speak. Goris, from Fallout 2, can even become your companion, and he's absolutely brilliant... he just sounds funny because he's trying to talk through a toothy maw of a mouth with no lips. And if we include demi-canon here, Fallout Tactics features honest to god anthro-deathclaws, which they posit were created from further FEV experimentation with genetically pure Deathlaws, like Super Mutant Master Deathclaws... only they ended up fuzzy and more humanoid instead.
 
Interestingly, the Hairy Deathclaw was originally the intention, according to some developer comments. They didn't do it because of technical limitations, but if you take a glance at some of the concept art, that's not much different than Fallout 4 level graphics... and that's the concept stuff. We could render that or better real time on a laptop, today. And, I don't know about you, but while we're on the subject, I'm not much into Fur, but if I were to be somehow molested by something, I'd rather it be the Hairy Deathclaw than the scaly green dinosaur-looking thing we have.
 
Just saying.

 

Edit: Of course it's already been brought up, I just thought I'd chime in for the Deathclaws. The ones the Enclave were working with in Fallout 2 could talk.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess you would have to have a sort of "Furry Sculptor" type of system, since there's no race choices?  Not sure how you'd sculpt different noses/nares though, but ears could squash and stretch easily enough (it would help if you could move them higher on the head.)

 

I wonder if Beth did something like this on purpose.  Come on folks, it's not necessarily a sex fantasy.  I blame the crowd the game companies do pander to for the sexual connotations of being a so-called "furry" becoming almost automatically what pops into people's minds when someone asks for something like this, and I find it offensive, as well.

 

Frankly, when the streets of Canada start looking like Halloween every day anyway, with people in "cultural dress" and "expressing their 'gender identities'", why shouldn't people go around in critter costumes too, if they feel like doing so?  :P
 

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Justifying a transformation into a "whatever" isnt that hard when you really think about it. Yes the characters past is set (story wise), but there is still wiggle room. Any time during or after the character is frozen is perfectly good for justifying a change to their body. Heck, maybe after some small time after the PC's spouse gets killed, someone else found your in the vault and took you to a lab to experiment on you. Or you visit a bar and are drugged by someone that slowly mutates you, and you have to chase them down to either accelerate or reverse it. Or maybe we do the whole Alternative Start like in Skyrim that just skips that whole intro.

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Has someone identified which quest marker identify the beginning of a new game ? If so, it should be possible to make different intro by altering it, either by a prompt asking which type of start the player wants (Vanilla (default), "Playthrough 1", "Playthrough 2"...) either by randomisation. Having in SKSE a Main Menu script handling to config mods before starting would be good too. Alternate story mods should be able to remove vanilla story quest using a flag system too... It would be without dialogue at start till the tool for voice generation are done (working on a phoneme one, searching for an available tool to extract phoneme  parts atm) or use custom voice.

 

Edit : Quest seems to be MQ101 "War Never Changes" [QUST:0001ED86] as it has :

Stages
|-Stage
| |-INDX - Stage Index
| | |-Stage Index      0
| | | |-Flags          Run On Start
| | | | |-Run On Start Run On Start

I think to not auto start this quest you have to modify its condition:

Conditions
|-Condition
| |-CTDA -
|   |-Type                        Equal to
|   |-Comparison Value - Float    0.000000
|   |-Function                    GetGlobalValue
|   |-Global                      MQ101Debug [GLOB:000A7D31]
|   |-None                        00 00 00 00
|   |-Run On                      Subject
|   |-Unused                      0
|   |-Parameter #3                -1

To something like:

Conditions
|-Condition
| |-CTDA -
|   |-Type                        Equal to
|   |-Comparison Value - Int      1
|   |-Function                    GetGlobalValue
|   |-Global                      ChoicePlaythroughType [GLOB:000XXXXX]
|   |-None                        00 00 00 00
|   |-Run On                      Subject
|   |-Unused                      0
|   |-Parameter #3                -1

And create another quest that use the previously unmodified condition that SetGlobalValue ChoicePlaythroughType at its end stage.

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So i was thinking about how alternate races could be added and how alternate starts can be done so that a clear post war races could then exist... and an idea i came up with is like the alternate start for skyrim, before you even get to the point where your looking in the mirror to customize your character, you pick your alternate start. then the race part can be added to the character creation. As for the main quest line for finding your baby, like they did in alternate start for skyrim add in a quest objective (or more) that would lead this character to looking for this kid for some reason, like the sole survivor saves your character from certain death, get hurt in the process and they ask you to find their son with their dying breath or something along those lines.

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