Saeros Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 @BringtheNoise so, leaving aside all the technical stuff, I'm not a 3D modeler and I'm not going to criticise the great work to UUNP. I always loved the UNP based body (especially the part of the belly, very feminine ), but one of the thing that block me to switching CBBE-->UUNP is the deformation of the UUNP body shape in some animations. How can a body that has more polygons, deform in so unrealistic manner? Everyone says: more poly --> less deformations but this: -image from EvilReFlex post- and this happens in any "UNP" shape i tested. thanks in advance. bye! S.
Contessa Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 DreamGirl? Guys... guys? DG is still the finest body I've come across, not sure if UUNP is "better" now technically, I do know there's a UUNP version of DG. I seem to have better "oomph" from HDT out of CBBE Bodyslide than I do UUNP, so if that kinda thing matters to you then maybe stick with CBBE. In my experience UUNP's HDT is more subtle than CBBE. I often switch back and forth depending on my whim. If you use MO you can just set up two profiles, one for CBBE and one for UUNP. Why choose one?
Taskmaster Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 It's starting to look like I should be sticking with CBBE after all. I am having CTD issues with gamefever's Skyrim Enhanced conversions in the very first village. I had the same issue. Not sure if it was a performance thing, or something else. DreamGirl? Guys... guys? DG is still the finest body I've come across, not sure if UUNP is "better" now technically, I do know there's a UUNP version of DG. I seem to have better "oomph" from HDT out of CBBE Bodyslide than I do UUNP, so if that kinda thing matters to you then maybe stick with CBBE. In my experience UUNP's HDT is more subtle than CBBE. I often switch back and forth depending on my whim. If you use MO you can just set up two profiles, one for CBBE and one for UUNP. Why choose one? DG is an amazing body most certainly, but it also has the UV warping problem, it squeezes the midsection, so your normal maps will look narrow on the body. It's present on the regular DG and on the UUNP DG sliders, the same as the warping with 7B(different warping). Other than that, the body is very well crafted. Outside of UUNP, I personally hold Leito 2.2 body in the highest regard. DG comes very close. Though, every single body to include UUNP has their downsides. How much that impacts what you're wanting from the game, is going to vary quite a bit. For example UUNP has a problem with UUNP She-Hulk(regular UNP SH has more polygons, so UUNP slider of the body lost a lot). Some issues come down to how Skyrim handles the body meshes as well, like both the left and right arms having some weird scaling issue between each other(very noticable, regardless of body, even vanilla).
dobmc Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 How about we all just admit we all love our respective body meshes and would defend them till the end even if they were objectively worse. Nothing wrong with that and it would make this whole discussion obsolete because it is quite obvious that it is going nowhere. Let's be honest here, if the ~6000 more polygons that UUNP has causes such a major performance loss for you you probably weren't playing with a high fps rate in the first place. Unless it has Poser/Daz3D level of polygon-overload Untitled2.png aka 24k polies for 1 of the 20 pieces that make up the boot it should be barely noticeable, if at all. may i ask where you found this almost absurdly well detailed boot? One of the mods from the Fox series, I think. I just wanted to say that it's not private but I won't bother helping you search for it. @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k?
Kimy Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I avoided UNP bodies like the plague for the longest time because there were simply ten times more conversions available for CBBE and no matter what exact UNP body you picked, there was always -something- vital missing (e.g. UNPB didn't have Remodeled Armor). That and because Bodyslide (who wants a fixed body anyway if you can have sliders?). Two weeks ago I switched to UUNP and I don't think I will look back. Thanks to the tireless work of Gameplayer and others we now have pretty much all really important conversions available and since UUNP has Bodyslide support as well, there is simply no reason not to use it unless you absolutely want a really specific armor only available for CBBE. Tbh, I guess UUNP will be the definite bodymod for Skyrim. At this point there is zero reason to work on another.
pornphile Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? It doesn't happen to CBBE: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/38362-project-unified-unp/?p=1303705 Download the pose file and compare for yourself. Not interested in body wars but there are legitimate issues.
Saeros Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 One of the mods from the Fox series, I think. I just wanted to say that it's not private but I won't bother helping you search for it. @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? meh, ok... (I'm not here to defend/accuse anyone, I'm not interested in the childish "bodywar".. I am too old for this shit ...I am just an experimenter). ..but now, I tested the same thing creating the "UUNP special" body with UUNP "UNP" preset (the classic original) and "UNPB" preset and I have the same deformation problem of EvilReFlex. maybe is a UUNP shape issue.. just to know... and reporting it to the author, can be solved. You use the UUNP special .nif base shape to create your body? Is possible to view an image without the deformation of the hip? I really like the UUNP special body, and I'd really like to be able to use it without problem. thanks! S. edit: thanks pornphile, i never seen your post before (and cell response) in UUNP thread.
Ayn Sof Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k?This X1000But I heard it is unfixable due to shoulder bone issue? Any body that can completely fix this issue will win this war I guess (don't know about lady body)
Gameplayer Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Wow my ears are tingly. There isn't a point too making new meshes right now. There is just soo much stuff out there, I'd like to have my favorite mods list all use the same type of body and I'd like to know that its all weighted the same and has similar shapes. When it comes to the creation of new armors/outfits its going to be just a matter of layoring meshes and making good use of alpha layored textures. Then creating a spefy ESP of the likes that'd just blow your darn socks off.
dobmc Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? It doesn't happen to CBBE: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/38362-project-unified-unp/?p=1303705 Download the pose file and compare for yourself. Not interested in body wars but there are legitimate issues. Depending on where you position the leg, whether it's more closer to the groin rather than the butt, and leg thickness can cause similar issues. An example from one of my old ss: But yea people were having these body wars since when CBBE got it's Bodyslide feature. UNP had high detail and CBBE had the freedom to create any type of body. And now CBBE is not the only special one that has that ability.. Well each to your own. One of the mods from the Fox series, I think. I just wanted to say that it's not private but I won't bother helping you search for it. @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? meh, ok... (I'm not here to defend/accuse anyone, I'm not interested in the childish "bodywar".. I am too old for this shit ...I am just an experimenter). Frankly I'm surprised people took sides and began ridiculing each other. Subjectively, yea that's a grey argument. But objectively it should be obvious which one is better even just by detail. Even if UNP only had high poly breasts and nipples, that's still better than the stretched textures and blocky nipples CBBE had. I'm going to apologize in advance for using someone else's screenshots. I know I'm being scummy but here are some comparisons: http://postimg.org/image/f5f0n5to5/full/ http://brainsperm.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-142.html#more and a more extreme case: http://brainsperm.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-238.html#more
malisbad1 Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 DreamGirl? Guys... guys? DG is still the finest body I've come across, not sure if UUNP is "better" now technically, I do know there's a UUNP version of DG. I seem to have better "oomph" from HDT out of CBBE Bodyslide than I do UUNP, so if that kinda thing matters to you then maybe stick with CBBE. In my experience UUNP's HDT is more subtle than CBBE. I often switch back and forth depending on my whim. If you use MO you can just set up two profiles, one for CBBE and one for UUNP. Why choose one? I'll second! Dream Girl looks better than either one to me. Let me get a couple pics quick, but a big thing for me, the arms (not that I have an arm fetish (if that's a real thing). Both UNP & CBBE look like clubs compared to DG... OK, ignore the texture as I did this in haste, but I can point out half a dozen or more examples like this. Thankfully the forearm & palm sliders work so I can make these clubs on U/UNP look somewhat feminine as in the last pic. DG is just the best looking bod, but it's not HDT (though many clothes & armor are) and many of the skeleton sliders are not supported, breasts, belly, etc :-( I just started using UUNP with the DG preset so that I could use these sliders, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I may just continue to use plain old DG...
pornphile Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Depending on where you position the leg, whether it's more closer to the groin rather than the butt, and leg thickness can cause similar issues. An example from one of my old ss: rubbish quality.png Upload the the pose/animation? I'm not seeing that problem in the current CBBE iteration.
27X Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I think CBBE is still better. The (U)UNP Mesh is a nightmare, so many useless polys, a crappy UV Map and the Bone Weights are NOT better. Lol, no. The UV in CBBE is pretty much the worst in the game outside of CH, and any deformation that includes both horizontal and vertical deformation in the same area (say like any doggystyle anim that isn't Leito's or 3j's show exactly how far behind CBBE is, even with cell plugging away...) The main and only point where CBBE objectively wins flatly is the hip deformation in UUNP being weighted from hell to breakfast. noodle arms The only way noodles arms goes away for Skyrim bodies is if a deformable section is "welded" over the joint itself to stretch, essentially the same as what was done to add vaginas to the standardized bodies, and good luck in getting not look like a bat wing in flight on arm-over-head animations and poses. DG is about as close as you're going to get with the normal mesh and polycount.
FinalCloud Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Hah, I love how (uber) nerdy cool this thread is! Arguing about pixelated boobies ftw! Personally, I have never tried UNP or UNPB or 7B or any of those All I ever used has been CBBE and CHSBHC (back in the day). I have never really had a reason to convert from CBBE as it has good support and, lets face it, does the job. The only thing that bothers me about CBBE is the hands and feet (not feminine enough for my liking) And the chance that UNP hands/feet looked better was about the only reason I could think of for switching. (Which before UUNP was not an option) When I see a nice long list of conversions (and some specifics) for UUNP, hell, il give it a shot.
Vioxsis Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 If the weighting's that bad, why don't you fix it for us? Everyone would greatly appreciate that. Do bear in mind the 4 weights per vertex limit, though. The belly weights are a big annoyance there for UUNP HDT and UUNP Special. First i never said the weighting was bad, and why me? And who's everyone? And why do i care if it will be appreciated or not? Though i did get an insane idea. So you can try this extremely experimental weighting. UNP geo is garbage, also the belly weights may be an excuse for the HDT body but the mesh with no belly weights are just as bad. UUNPHDT.nif
Guest Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I'll second! Dream Girl looks better than either one to me. Let me get a couple pics quick, but a big thing for me, the arms (not that I have an arm fetish (if that's a real thing). Both UNP & CBBE look like clubs compared to DG... OK, ignore the texture as I did this in haste, but I can point out half a dozen or more examples like this. Thankfully the forearm & palm sliders work so I can make these clubs on U/UNP look somewhat feminine as in the last pic. DG is just the best looking bod, but it's not HDT (though many clothes & armor are) and many of the skeleton sliders are not supported, breasts, belly, etc :-( I just started using UUNP with the DG preset so that I could use these sliders, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I may just continue to use plain old DG... How DG looks isn't even that important. What is important is that it has by far the best weight painting/ mesh deformation out there so far.
sunhawken Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? It doesn't happen to CBBE: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/38362-project-unified-unp/?p=1303705 Download the pose file and compare for yourself. Not interested in body wars but there are legitimate issues. Depending on where you position the leg, whether it's more closer to the groin rather than the butt, and leg thickness can cause similar issues. An example from one of my old ss: rubbish quality.png But yea people were having these body wars since when CBBE got it's Bodyslide feature. UNP had high detail and CBBE had the freedom to create any type of body. And now CBBE is not the only special one that has that ability.. Well each to your own. One of the mods from the Fox series, I think. I just wanted to say that it's not private but I won't bother helping you search for it. @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? meh, ok... (I'm not here to defend/accuse anyone, I'm not interested in the childish "bodywar".. I am too old for this shit ...I am just an experimenter). Frankly I'm surprised people took sides and began ridiculing each other. Subjectively, yea that's a grey argument. But objectively it should be obvious which one is better even just by detail. Even if UNP only had high poly breasts and nipples, that's still better than the stretched textures and blocky nipples CBBE had. I'm going to apologize in advance for using someone else's screenshots. I know I'm being scummy but here are some comparisons: http://postimg.org/image/f5f0n5to5/full/ http://brainsperm.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-142.html#more and a more extreme case: http://brainsperm.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-238.html#more Were can I get UNPEG skyrim
yatol Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 How DG looks isn't even that important. What is important is that it has by far the best weight painting/ mesh deformation out there so far. if dg have better weights, why don't they put those weights on cbbe or unp?
27X Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 UUNP has DG weights, but as btn would be the first to point out, there's an asston of added stuff on there, hence the issues cell alluded to. Personally I would lose the belly weighting and deformation or put it to a specific branch.
malisbad1 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 How DG looks isn't even that important. What is important is that it has by far the best weight painting/ mesh deformation out there so far. Pardon my ignorance, mate. I'm a simple user and do not fully understand exactly what "weight painting" is. I have just a very basic grasp of the concept. All I know is DG looks better in pretty much every aspect and really should have been the base for a universal body. I just picked a simple example that was easy for me to illustrate.
Guest toymachine Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Weight painting is how the mesh moves with the skeleton. If done wrong it's a deformation. In the case above with UNP(?) the waist area has a deformation depending the animation that is used. I see this happen during missionary position with the subs legs apart where the crease is. Some are a bit hard to spot than others but it's still visible.
dobmc Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Depending on where you position the leg, whether it's more closer to the groin rather than the butt, and leg thickness can cause similar issues. An example from one of my old ss: rubbish quality.png Upload the the pose/animation? I'm not seeing that problem in the current CBBE iteration. cb.jpg As convenient as it sounds I don't even remember what motion mod this was from and I've stopped using this animation pack long since. I'll check my backups tonight. @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? It doesn't happen to CBBE: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/38362-project-unified-unp/?p=1303705 Download the pose file and compare for yourself. Not interested in body wars but there are legitimate issues. Depending on where you position the leg, whether it's more closer to the groin rather than the butt, and leg thickness can cause similar issues. An example from one of my old ss: rubbish quality.png But yea people were having these body wars since when CBBE got it's Bodyslide feature. UNP had high detail and CBBE had the freedom to create any type of body. And now CBBE is not the only special one that has that ability.. Well each to your own. One of the mods from the Fox series, I think. I just wanted to say that it's not private but I won't bother helping you search for it. @BringtheNoise lol dude that happens to me for CBBE so it isn't UUNP or UNP exclusive. From what I see, that screenshot is a horrible depiction of a body created using UUNP. Look at that deformed breast, this guy didn't even bother spending time fiddling the sliders and instead just went for the worst just to prove his point. And by the way... No one wins until the noodle arms are fixed, k? meh, ok... (I'm not here to defend/accuse anyone, I'm not interested in the childish "bodywar".. I am too old for this shit ...I am just an experimenter). Frankly I'm surprised people took sides and began ridiculing each other. Subjectively, yea that's a grey argument. But objectively it should be obvious which one is better even just by detail. Even if UNP only had high poly breasts and nipples, that's still better than the stretched textures and blocky nipples CBBE had. I'm going to apologize in advance for using someone else's screenshots. I know I'm being scummy but here are some comparisons: http://postimg.org/image/f5f0n5to5/full/ http://brainsperm.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-142.html#more and a more extreme case: http://brainsperm.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-238.html#more Were can I get UNPEG skyrim Here.
Jarka Ruus Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Probably of all skyrim meshes I've used unpcm is the best weighted, even better than dg. Really you can try bending it however you want and in most cases it will still look good. Probably it's because halo twweaked it a lot for his pose mods but those weights are really impressive. Anyway I think that comparing it to a bodyslide mod would be unfair because the scope is so wider that it's simply impossible to have all slider combinations working correctly, or it might be possible but with an insane amount of tweaking. Probably not worth it considering how time consuming it is to create morphs in the first place.
t3h0th3r Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Though i did get an insane idea. So you can try this extremely experimental weighting. Trying the weights, any other changes worth mentioning but the apparent change to spine0?
Vioxsis Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Trying the weights, any other changes worth mentioning but the apparent change to spine0? Yea, every weight was changed and repainted. the thighs should bend to the pelvis better (would have much better but the geos shit) the arms where redone at the elbow and shoulder (though its hard to tell there 'cus the geo is shit). Should try doing it again with spine1 instead, but it turned out spine was more useless in the early animation tests.
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