Long letter to those sexy modders (my critics, thoughts, idears)

[GregorSamsa]

The following are my personal impressions after playing a sexy modded skyrim for 5 month now.

 

GENERAL PREFACE

 

The most important thing: I want to thank the people who run this site and contribute to this site. I can't give anything back than my thoughts about the content I found here. So this long letter is mainly written with the intent to amuse you, not to offend anyone. But these are times, where it's hard to judge in advance, who could be offended by what. Sometimes it seems to me everyone could be offended by everything, depending on the moonphase, the weather, the kind of sex he/she had the day before.

 

So let me do the offending first and once and for all: TITTIES! And now, we are done, o.k.? Please read the rest in a relaxed, calmed mood as if you watch a ladybeetle on a blade of gras in the middle of a big meadow. You may discuss my thoughts. But consider, what is worth a discussion and what is waste of energy. A ladybeetle on a blade of gras in the middle of a meadow may be an unworthy discussion partner. Most of my daily energy I need for wanking, so in discussion I'm sometimes a little bit lame.

 

 

PERSONAL PREFACE

 

My native langue isn't english but I do my very best to not anoy you. I'm no hardcore gamer. I even don't know much about games at all as I played 15 maybe 20 computer games my entire life. I started playing skyrim about 5 months ago, since then I didn't get very far with the game. Mainly I tried out mods and watched howto-videos an learned about stuff; CTD and memoryspace, MO and load order, HDT physics, skeleton and bodys, etc.

 

So I'm surely the perfect nag: I heard about everything and have no deeper knowledge at all.

 

Maybe I should add, that I have deepest respects for all creatures and I'm no fan of sexual violence. I think bondage was invented for pleasure not for terror. Therefore some so called 'sexmods' out here I (personally) would call them 'sexual violence mods', some with 50% sex and 50% violence, some with 10% sex and 90% violence and so on. But that's not my concern, not my business. Regarding media I justify 'sexual taste' in a very simple manner. Things that make me want to wank and things that make me not want to wank. And I must confess: many of the 'sexmods' for Skyrim don't make me want to wank. The 'why' - that's my writing about.

And the reason is simple, why I write this to you:  Dear modders, please make me want to wank. That's what sexmods are invented for. Or am I wrong?

 

SEXLAB ORIENTED PREFACE

 

Soon as I had some modding stuff (especially physics and bodys) installed I recognized that the name TESV-Skyrim didn't fit the game anymore. Now the correct name of the game would be: TWWOB-Skyrim. Until now, this is my strongest impression about this game.

 

Ah, yes, sorry. I forgot. TWWOB stands for 'The wonderfull world of butts'. To those who made this possible: you did a marvelous job! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! And the cbbe body is right to point this part of the game out, to make it prominent. From my little experience Skyrim is the game with the most beautifull butts ever. Some times I followed (well armored/well dressed) npcs down the road for half an ingame day just to see the magic happen: ding-dong-wubblywubbel-ding-dong-wubblywubbel and so on. Boy, THIS made me want to wank! Boy, THAT's where the name Fantasy-Game fits well! You watch your girls starry blue eyes? You watch your boyfriends broad shoulders? Well, play TWWOB-Skyrim. You'll become a butt fetishist for shure.

Well and from this deep impression there arose a desire - to touch this biggest of all wonders of game physics and see what happens. Maybe to slap one of these game-fantasy-butts to see them wobbling again. Hey, please! Move again! And do you know what - I can't!

I can only follow and stare. This game made me a total paparazzo. Please, make me slap 'em. Not because I'm a 3D-objects-sadist, just to let them wobble again.

 

 

MAIN PART I, The Frustration

 

I think that's my main frustration. You can cast a tremendous amount of spells and then - bamm! - sex. Everywhere. You can talk to somebody and then - bamm! - sex. In all kind of styles. But all this is like cheating. It's like pressing a button to watch a sex movie. But it is not really gaming. Erotic is catching the chance of a moment, the unexpected touch, sexual arousal is all about how you touch
and how you are touched. Beeing touched ... the different meanings of this word. And it's completely absent in the world of TWWOB-Skyrim - except for the hugging-command. And this is vanilla, I believe? You may think I'm talking about having a little romance before the fisting. No - that's not my point. I could exemplyfy this also on a harder level.

I conjured goran, the brave carpenter, told him to build a pillory. I put one of my followers in that pillory because he didn't do a good
job last fight. I took out the cane I made at the forge. Spanked him a little. Blood splattered around the scene. But no touching. No wriggling, no sinking down, no animation or collision physics. Even the talking: "It's a fine day when you're around" - that was the response of my follower.

Tell you what: I really don't need 100 variants of the doggy style position. What I whish is some action-reaction logic in the physics/dialogues (me, as a user, I even don't care if it's done by physics, animation or both, as long as it looks sexy).
More refined animations in this sense. I don't know what triggers animations, what possibilities there are. My impression is: all animations are triggerd directly by commands instead of a thought of logic (combination of true/false-circumstances) and that's why all those sex (independent of the 'taste') looks so lifeless. There is no touching, only commands - you can command 'be devote' but you can't really force it by the action you take. Perhaps there aren't the possibilities to script it? Perhaps there is a lack of animations?

 

Maybe all those animations where made not with a story (a process, an occasion etc.) in mind but only with sex in mind? You have a dozend doggy-style animations but no animations that fits the 'how-did-it-come-we're-doing-that-doggy-question, I can't judge the reason, but I can see, there is something that doesn't work very well when you walking down the street and bamm! sex - and you don't know from out of where it came. You get the explanation, what happend, through a dialog or a notice in the left upper corner of the window. When spells seems the only way to have some fun, you cast it and - bamm! - your right in the middle of the thing. Allways. I don't know the technial limitation but it looks like, there is one. As all the storytelling (on the micro-level, not on the quest-level) is
so sketchy): Do you like to have sex? Ye ..- bamm! - Where is the gaming?

 

MAIN PART II, Another example

 

Let me take the thalmor embassy episode from the captured dreams shop as an example. The overall story is very well done and even if it's not my 'taste' (as I love to be the dominant part) I have no doubt this is a well thought of mod and very good developed. A five-stars-mod to make it short. That's why I take it as an example. After a while this episode made me - no, not to wank but I went to the kitchen, made me a cup of coffee got back to the monitor (not yet finished?) and back to the kitchen and back to the monitor (oh another threesome?) and so on. But why - the story isn't bad. You would say - the episode is to long. Well, yes, but you have to ask further - why it is to long (as a good sexscene obviously could be a bit longer, you wouldn't complain about that). Well it's repetitive, but that's quite the same answer - that's not all. There are many problems in the long rape scene but all belong to the same origin - the relation of the action (proceeding) and the animations. For example: a girl that is raped would never await with legs open. That kills every tension in the story. The attacker would have to open her legs with force. That builds up tension, makes a story thrilling: will he succeed, will she succeed? If this isn't unclear - what will happen next - you know allready what will happen. But then - why watching. Why playing a game if there is no action to take? Sometimes someone would scratch his head and ask: now, what's next? Even rapers
wouldn't be like robots always knowing what to do next. They would argue with each other, pushing their victim around and to the ground, slap her, tear her hair back and forth and so on. There would be moments of incertainess - what will happen next? To look good such a complex scene had to consist of many smaller animations in between, animations that telling something. Some thalmor would wank and say: I'm next but the other would refuse. There would be some stop-go, here-there amongst the rapers.To set up fear (uncertainess). Someone would try to insert crazy stuff, someone would try to prevent him to not 'break their little sextoy'.

 

Well, I'm shure the autor had similar in mind. If you look on the dialoges, they try to tell exactly that kind of stuff, but with dialoges, as if it was a book, where you can't see what happens and therefore you have to tell it with words. And that's the point (not the length). The animations don't really fit the story, they don't carry the story - the story you could tell on a black screen just with the dialogs. The

animarions are arbitrary.

 

You might see: you could do a hot story with less fucking on the screen.

A sexstory doesn't get better by the holes that are filled. And if you fill a hundred holes a hundret times it wouldn't do a thrilling rape scene. Tell you what: you could even do a thrilling rapescene without showing a single penis.  The same: if you make more bloodsplatters on the screen till it's hard to see through the violence wouldn't become more violent. That doesn't it.

 

Another thing does the trick.

 

You must build up tension, pressure, incertainess on the gameplayer itself - to get this things right. You have to put pressure on the player. If you want to make rape mods (not that I care much about that), you must think to create fear, not big dicks. Rape-sex-scenes won't prickle if you can't feel this fear around. It's not that I'm interested in this stuff - I'm talking about storytelling, about creating feelings, tension, things that prickle - in cinema, books or games.

 

To make a good Skyrim quest you should telling the story mainly with the action, that's taking place on the screen. You can't do that only with dialoges that explaining what the animation means, the animation must have a meaning by itself. Like the dungeons are to create an atmosphere animations are to tell what happens. They must carry the story not the dialoges. You'll see - if the animation carry the story, you can use the dialogs to give the actors some character: the evil, the brave. If the dialogs carry the story this won't work.

 

CONCLUSIO, Some idears

I don't know the real reasons, but my impression is - there are many animation with sex in mind, but there are no

animations with storytelling in mind. Anymations that cover this and that, but not the 'and then'. Sometimes this is called the 'succession', the logic of a story in its progression. I'll try to explain. A novellist would write:  "he took his sword AND THEN he killed him". Most sexmods are instead like 'he killed him' - to fast and you ask, hey, from where came the sword? To tell this visually you need corresponding animations. So - to tell a sexstory much 'bangbangbang' simply isn't enough. You want to know: from where came the dicks to this place. All the secrets of a prickeling story lies in a good 'and then'. Did you ever read Heinrich von Kleist: "He took her over th the bed AND THEN – he called the doctor." Thats brilliant. Because three sentences later it is discovered that the woman is pregnant.

Now you ask: why is she pregnant. And there starts the prickeling: something must happend. The point is '–' stands for 'he raped her' AND THEN he called the doctor. So, even with the unspoken you can make a good story. Hold the thalmor embassy episode from captured dreams shop against this and you see the mistakes: what will happen next is always explained in advance by dialoge. No risks, no unknow, no incentainess, no fear - no emotions builded up in the proceeding. Sorry, but my opinion is: this is done bad. The big effort in building the scenery up is distroyed by a bad storytelling. Really sad. But nothing for wanking. It's like sitting in a movie and someone beside you tells you allways what will happens next. That kills everything, That kills the sex to be sexy. And now we will fuck this way and then we will fuck that way. That's the same problem with bamm!-sex-spells - they don't build up a tension. The only tension you get, is when the mod don't work. Then you get the emotions the mod itself misses: damn, why doesn't it work.

 

There is enough stuff around for the central action but it needs to be refined.
The pillory is a good example. I can imaging about 20, 30 very short animations working together like puzzle pieces, so modders could create different actions with the combination of it. Sinking a litle down, sinking a little more down, butt slapped to left, butt slapped to right etc. When I create my own games I allways work with such animation-consruction kits, that allows better story telling.

Also preparing/toying animations. Some breastplay before getting close, some kisses on the knee (instead of fetching an arrow there) - all this stuff. I call this 'Touching'. There is allmost no Touching in Skyrim. Except for blades - with blades you can touch everybody. That's a little bit sad. 

Perhaps that would help to fullfill my other big wish: more sexaction driven action. Not action driven by spells or dialoges. I wish I could approach an NPC from behind and slap or pinch his marverlous fantasy-butt and he/she turns around and then he/she says: a) What do you want? Sex? 1) Do this once again and I call the guards 3) Get lost. (In this example the dialog is driven by the action you take).
Well, that' my opinion: there is much more sexual related interaction needed that triggers action (besides of dialoge and spells).

There could be a cuff-spell (o.k., got me, another spell) - but the spell does first nothing than to cuff an npc and make him stop. As soon as he/she is cuffed he/she could argue. You could say to him/her he/she must fullfill three wishes and then he/she is set free. This could be kneeling down give head/lick - and so on (doesn't really matter) after three actions you can liberate him/her OR not. And if not she/he might react badly get hostile, call guards etc. The point is to have an uncertain-reaction-element, a game-like-element not to have 'spell-bamm!-sex!' To make to have sex more tricky is more game-like in my opinion. 'Spell-bamm!-sex is sort of a jukebox with
short sex-clips in it. You insert a coin and dial the movie to watch. It's like movie on demand, not gaming. Only My opinion. So on the micro-level you will allways need some story-telling, even if it's a three-second-story. That doesn't matter.
To get a good story you need tension, that's all: f. e. two people with different aims. Big tension doesn't result from long stories. Should I jump or not - can be a big tension, depending where you stand, not how you got there.

A last note about those wonderful bouncing roundness everywhere (did I say thank you to all those HTD-developers?). Someone should create some HDT-nipple-weights, a little bigger than those tiny percings. I mean real weights (on chains hanging of from those breast and tearing them down a little). You could hang them on breasts. Would be really great. Why? Oh not for beeing mean and evil to 3D-characters - just for having more of this wonderful 'ding-dong-wubblywubb-ding-dong-wubblywubb'. That's still the best in whole Skyrim. And to have it more and with longer duration. That's all.

Well and then ... imagine this ... I could handcuff someone with pretty dingdongs with the handcuff spell (from suggestion above) and give him/her (probably her?) a push in the back and she would stacker a bit and with those nipple weights on the dingdongs would shake ... oh, this would be a really great mod. And from my point of view even very lorefriendly. Because this boucing is still the epic center of Skyrim.

Thanks for reading. Please don't forget, it's only my point of view.

 

Greetings

Gregor

 

  

[Guest]

Many mods are not "click-and-have-sex".

Amorous Adventures, SexLab Solutions, Animal mansion Redux, Cum Shot Brothel, just to name a few.

Animations are made by animators, put together with the animations frameworks (SexLab, NSAL, Zaz, the items inside More Nasty Critters), they are pre-defined animations.

Usually modders try to get the best of them and build a story around, just then to start it.

 

Comments are always welcome. More welcome (at least for me) is to have "stories", somebody that gives/proposes some thing like: "you have a follower, you don't like him/her, you go to a carpenter, you get logs, you get a blue print for a pillory, he builds it, you use it on your follower with this animation, you are happy, and your follower gains 2 points of health."

 

Thanks for your letter, long but appreciated.

 

 

[LibertyPrime]

I really hate being this rude but almost everything you typed is blatantly false, specially the parts where you say there aren't any sex mods with story/dialogue attached to them. I'd suggest browsing the Index and the Download section for more than five minutes before writing such an opinionated post.

 

Also, you're free to learn how to use 3DS Max/Blender/CK and make your own mods instead of demanding people to make mods that cater to your own fetishes. If you get this rustled by just bondage, I'd suggest staying away from DD stuff and just using more vanilla-oriented mods. It's that simple.

 

Remember that Skyrim is a fictional videogame, and much like how it doesn't make normal people want to go outside stabbing people in the back or shouting people off tall buildings, sex mods don't make normal people want to go outside and rape other people (or maybe they do, and that's why we have sex mods; so that 'weird' people go do that stuff in-game instead of outside ).

[GregorSamsa]

 

 

Also, you're free to learn how to use 3DS Max/Blender/CK and make your own mods instead of demanding people to make mods that cater to your own fetishes. If you get this rustled by just bondage, I'd suggest staying away from DD stuff and just using more vanilla-oriented mods. It's that simple.

 

 

You'll get me a legal copy of 3ds max? Shure I'll do!

 

But what vanilla-oriented mods you mean in detail? Any suggestion is wellcome.

 

 

For my own game creations, so far only 2D, I used DAZ Studio for animation, exported them in blender and rendered them there. If you would be that kind and explain me how the workflow from blender to Skyrim is, I'll give it a try. Why not.

 

Would this help you?

[Guest]

You can find in this forum some help to be an animator (or a generic creator of meshes, that is still really useful.)

 

If I remember corectly @blabba posted a few days ago a plugin for 3DS version 2015.

If you are a student then you can have your copy, for a couple of years, for free.

 

[GregorSamsa]

You can find in this forum some help to be an animator (or a generic creator of meshes, that is still really useful.)

 

If I remember corectly @blabba posted a few days ago a plugin for 3DS version 2015.

If you are a student then you can have your copy, for a couple of years, for free.

 

Thank you. I know that. But I'm to old and to stupid to even fake that I'm a student. Maybe blender. But as I wrote in my letter, I would prefer to spare my energy to wank.

 

Why pushing me now?

 

I'm the critic, not the modder. Should the critics write the books and the novellist write critics? Would this really help anything?

[Guest]

I repeat. Doing a mod is an art and a passion.

For a mod you need:

• Ideas
• Logic
• Stories
• Coding
• Meshes & Textures
• Layouting
• Animations
• Putting all together
• Going beyond the limits sometimes

You can contribute in any way you want.

Pure criticism is not really appreciated. Modders do their job for passion, without any obligation and compensation.

 

Some of them are open to advises, propositions, and maybe critics.

Some of them are not. And you cannot blame them. The is NOT acceptable. You can simply ignore their mods.

 

[Kuロi]

 

Keep in mind I'm playing the devil's advocate here, as I'm mostly neutral about the whole thing. I'm 100% satisfied by the current SexLab content, but I also wouldn't say no to it's expansion

 

 

You know, I started reading this thread thinking I'd end up laughing and telling myself that OP's a jackass that knows nothing of what he's talking about. And I'll be honest, I have to apologize.
 
There's definitely some truth to what's being said. A lot of the mods out there are more of a "click that option for instant sex of X fetish". Problem is, it's not something that can simply "be fixed".
 
The butt-slap idea seams awesome, but then you need someone to make an animation just for that. More immersive rape scenes sounds great, but then you gotta make it so if fits enough contexts, or it won't be used often. And do you make 2 different scenes? One where the girl succeeds in fighting her aggressor off and one where she fails? That's more work, not to mention how do you put that into sexlab, can you fail a sex scene?
 
You could do a lot of that through text, but then text is not as immersive nor as interesting, let's be honest.  Not to mention OP's clearly trying to promote having more various animations with specific intentions to convey better feelings. From an animator's point of view, a midly rough doggystyle scene has more uses, ranging from rough casual sex to rape, and is thus a better idea as it can be used in much more situations. He could make a special animations of someone slapping an ass, but he can't know for sure if it's going to be used.
 
Seems to me we'd need a dedicated animator that, rather than develop sex animations, would focus on taking on jobs from various people who need random animations for specific things. Or maybe modders should look into simply asking some of the animators for special animations they'd need and credit them. I'm sure that, unless the requests are outrageous, that if you tell them about your project and are advanced enough in it so that they don't have to fear you giving up on the mod idea, that there's at least one animator that'd be willing to make a specific animation.

 

 

tl;dr

 

OP's opinion is a fair and true one, but one has to keep in mind that modding as a whole is a hobby and that most people do it alone, for the community, and unless one guys shows up who happens to be skilled animating, modding and story-writing, it's going to need people actively helping each other out if OP's goal is to ever come true.

[GregorSamsa]

I repeat. Doing a mod is an art and a passion.

For a mod you need:

• Ideas
• Logic
• Stories
• Coding
• Meshes & Textures
• Layouting
• Animations
• Putting all together
• Going beyond the limits sometimes

You can contribute in any way you want.

Pure criticism is not really appreciated. Modders do their job for passion, without any obligation and compensation.

 

Some of them are open to advises, propositions, and maybe critics.

Some of them are not. And you cannot blame them. The is NOT acceptable. You can simply ignore their mods.

 

Sorry, can't buy that. I agree, that modding is work and passion (exactly that makes me afraid of it - not that bit of knwoledge about software, nodes and verticles).

 

 

And I think I expressed my thankfullness for their work clearly in my letter. Maybe I should repeat my own words? Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

But this: 'pure criticism' – you adress it to me? Why? I wrote this letter for your amusement. I stated that clearly. It took me 3 hours to write it. And there is lovely weather outside. This was work too.

 

You may laugh but I regard my letter also as a work of art.

 

And I would appreciate if it gets at least the respect to be read before it is commented - even if you don't like my thoughts.

 

The same as with the mods ...

 

... or different?

 

I am a user so I am less worthy than a modder?

 

Is that your point? Or did I get that wrong?

 

[Guest]

I think you got it wrong, @GregorSamsa.

I was not criticizing your post.

i was not criticizing your statements.

I was not complying about the endless wars in the world.

 

I was expressing, respectfully, my point of view.

 

And I was open to state that not only animators are important. Everybody can play an active role.

And everybody can also play a passive role: I would like this, I think that that will be better this way.

 

Just respect always what people does, and do not underestimate the amount of work required to build a mod.

 

[spoonsinger]

 

And I think I expressed my thankfullness for their work clearly in my letter. Maybe I should repeat my own words? Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

 

 

That's what a passive aggressive would say.

[GregorSamsa]

 

 

tl;dr

 

OP's opinion is a fair and true one, but one has to keep in mind that modding as a whole is a hobby and that most people do it alone, for the community, and unless one guys shows up who happens to be skilled animating, modding and story-writing, it's going to need people actively helping each other out if OP's goal is to ever come true.

 

Thank you for the patience reading my letter. Maybe you pointed me out the general problem. One of my prefered games is Sim City. And the modding community is very old and very settled and they are used to work hand in hand. So one does the 3D-objects (buildings) another does the lots on which the buildings are putted on. Not that they work in fixed friendship like relations - let's say there is a pool of Object-specialist, a pool of beautification specialists and they ask each other for help for certain projects. 

 

It's sad to her if Skyrim modders are generally modding on their own, so that a ck-worker can't ask an animator: could you make this or that.

 

That would explain what I noticed and what I was trying to speculate about.

I think you got it wrong, @GregorSamsa.

I was not criticizing your post.

i was not criticizing your statements.

I was not complying about the endless wars in the world.

 

I was expressing, respectfully, my point of view.

 

And I was open to state that not only animators are important. Everybody can play an active role.

And everybody can also play a passive role: I would like this, I think that that will be better this way.

 

Just respect always what people does, and do not underestimate the amount of work required to build a mod.

 

Well, then sorry for my reaction.

[afa]

These points are well worn territory. What are being asked for here are:

Transition animations (lead up, during, and in between sex/rape)

Much more animation variety (so it can still be somewhat fresh)

Well timed dialog and PC vs NPC response (no vanilla dialog cutting in, and appropriate dialog during animations or in between animations)

Storied mod (self explanatory)

Animated interaction (your butt slap example)

 

Generally speaking, anything with animations are hard to do, time consuming, and to really achieve the fluidity that OP asks for the needs to be lots and lots of variation of it. That's why it is lacking from outside looking it. Not to mention the glitches that happens.

As for one time animation it is tricky to pull that of when it is paired I believe, meaning you can have animations that play when you interact with a static object or an animation that plays when you press a button, but to interact with an actor with directional context (butt slap has be to from behind at the correct height) it is trickier.

 

Dialog text are prone to disappear when they overlaps, getting rid of vanilla dialog you either go edit every NPCs or create new NPCs, both of which works with custom mods, but more tedious when you want to use vanilla NPCs in your mod (say a bandit in defeat/submit, actually defeat can get custom dialog to proc I wonder if it can get rid of vanilla dialog on demand.)

 

Contextual dialogs from NPCs are rare and usually single serving, there are a few mods that does it, Devious More Quest, fill her up, Cursed Loot, deviously enslaved, SD+.

Only Devious More Quest went and started a reputation system for PC and NPCs, sadly it is unfinish.

 

As for story mods... well ratio of work involve vs play time is something to think about. Go try Dark Investigation and Get Stripped Again.

 

Also I have zero interests of a mod that pushes its pressure and risk to the player. To me it is always about the characters that are on screen.

[GregorSamsa]

 

As for one time animation it is tricky to pull that of when it is paired I believe, meaning you can have animations that play when you interact with a static object or an animation that plays when you press a button, but to interact with an actor with directional context (butt slap has be to from behind at the correct height) it is trickier.

 

 

 

Naa, I don't think so. I mean, I try to see it positive. It's a difference if you do a slow animation with a hiatus in the middle - for example lying a hand on the shoulder of a follower - that would be really challenging.

 

But this short fast animations are more about giving an illusion - like the sword fights. On those very fast movements the biggest part is doing your brain - as it makes you see what you should see. In my experience they are quite easy to realize as they have greater tolerance. If it's fast enough you won't even notice that the hand goes through the butt or if it is half a meter away. If the hand moves and the butt shakes - your brain will do the rest to make it look 'believable'.

 

On the other hand you make me worry - if you click an actor in Skyrim from behind he automatically turns around. Isn't it so? Hard to surprise him/her ...

 

Maybe it isn't that easy to realize as my brain told me ... 

 

[wulfgear09]

 i  am also as a just a fan of the work done here, had noticed a lack of animations for the lead up to and while you wait for mr bandit to run amuck on your body stuff but after i tore into some of amoks animations to try and learn what was needed to make these things work thought to my self " holy fuck that that is some extreme work." and he , like all the fine animators here are just work horses . I personally will never be able to do it for a sheer lack of focus and failing eyesight. 

 

 But as of late i see some trickling into the lime light with mods like defeat where now you get a lie on the ground sobbing waiting for the next round to happen . or the collapse to the floor animations for some of the torture devices out there. the wiggles and sexy moves while a soulgem goes of in your pixel puss. I think what you are looking for is coming around but it took all the doggy styles and bouncing butts not to mention skeletons and textures it takes just to cup a breast for our amusement. 

 

 Our modders have the abilities to do anything it's just the audience wanted what they wanted.and now that they got that well fuck me they want more. Lets start tapping on the donate button more and i bet ya we get more . or wait till they want it to,or as CPU stated do it ourselves.

 

 just my thoughts on it no personal attack given or taken.

[windpl]

If op had tried to make at last one animation for skyrim he would know how fucking fluid they can be and he would not waste 3h for writing this post. Just imagining how horrible  timing and aligning, scriping for "simple ass slap" could be.

[GregorSamsa]

If op had tried to make at last one animation for skyrim he would know how fucking fluid they can be and he would not waste 3h for writing this post. Just imagining how horrible  timing and aligning, scriping for "simple ass slap" could be.

 

You mean one should not make animations for skyrim - there are better things to do?

[windpl]

 

If op had tried to make at last one animation for skyrim he would know how fucking fluid they can be and he would not waste 3h for writing this post. Just imagining how horrible  timing and aligning, scriping for "simple ass slap" could be.

 

You mean one should not make animations for skyrim - there are better things to do?

 

 

If you want such lvl of detail, yes there are better things to do.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

I'm the critic

 

 

No, you're not. The only thing you can criticize about a mod is it's execution, i.e. if it works as intended. You can however not criticize what the author intended the mod to be. If the author says 'I want to make a mod that enables instant sex via dialogue or spells!' than that's his choice. Mods are free and not sold products (at least to this point, who knows what steam and Beth will do in the future, they've already shown their intent to make some extra dosh off of the community), so there's really no point where you can start criticizing. The intention behind a mod is usually what the modder himself wants to see in the game, so unless you put your own taste above all else, there's simply no way for you to start criticizing a modder.

 

If you are a critic, you usually have some sort of insight into the whole process you're criticizing (which is something you're lacking, and it shows, btw). Critics that review books for example should have at least extensive knowledge about books. Critics review products based on the standards this industry has and compare the product they currently review to the really, really good products that already exist. The end result is where your product is placed - below the standard, standard, above the standard. Again, you can't do that with mods, because those are personal projects born out of the wishes the modder has. A modder doesn't have to share his/her work nor has he/she any obligation to anyone. It's like writing a diary, you can do whatever the fuck you want because t's yours.

 

 

And to make this clear, a modder is more valuable than a user who doesn't mod. This may sound harsh, but it's the reality. Imagine a community that consists entirely of people like you - without talent, without the motivation to do anything themselves, the only thing they can do is say thank you or express their wishes, with the absolute inability to make them true themselves, instead relying on others. Like a child that can't walk, doesn't want to learn how to walk but instead wants to be carried around all the time. Now compare that to a community that's full of people who do something. Guess which community won't last. Know your place, pal. Modders are the reason this place and many others exist in the first place. They provide the foundation for anything here.

[Coopervane]

I'd say the crux of people's disagreement with your letter, Gregor, is that you are offering critique on a subject you're not qualified to critique.

 

It's not lack of ideas, vision, or a desire for quality that holds Skyrim mods back, that stuff the modding community has in spades, and i dare say a lot of the content that has come out of Skyrim's modding community put's Bethesda's work to shame in all but quantity. It's the game engine and the tools we have to work with that are the problem.

 

Seriously, modding Skyrim is not a case of "if you can think of it, then you can create it!". Ohh if only, but no, it is sadly quite the opposite, it's a constant series of limitations and dead-ends, because both the game engine and the tools avalible to us are, to be frank, absolute and utter shite.

This is a game engine from 1993 that was never ment to do any of this stuff to begin with (it was made for RTS games), and which has had two decades worth of stuff grafted on to it since then. This thing is an absolute mess, and doing anything at all with it is a huge fight every time.

 

 

The fact that the Skyrim modding scene has managed to get as much as they have out of this game is damn near a miricle, a testiment to all the passion that has gone into it, and just how much people wanted to make the game better than it was, despite how hard it's been to do so. If you're going to critique that, then you first need to understand what has gone into it, and what exactly it is that you're asking of people, and why things are the way that they are.

[afa]

Now now...by that logic are we saying that only authors can be book critics? artist can be art critics? actors/directors for movies? and game developers for games and the like? and in this case modders for mods critics?

[GrimReaper]

Now now...by that logic are we saying that only authors can be book critics? artist can be art critics? actors/directors for movies? and game developers for games and the like? and in this case modders for mods critics?

 

Being a critic is mostly restricted to the execution of the intended goal. For example, a critic may say that the character development in a crime novel is bad and unbelievable, in this case, the author failed his goal to deliever an engaging story with interesting characters. A critic however can not criticize a crime novel for being a crime novel.

 

The same applies to mods. Not only that, but there are technical limitations that aren't necessarily bound to the engine of Skyrim itself but rather are there due to the fact that the game wasn't designed with sex animations in mind. These kinds of mods always will feel like they are tacked on to the game, simply because they are. Skyrim wasn't meant for bouncing butts and dicks. This allows some possibilities that are not available for games that are developed as sex games but it's also pretty limiting in other areas. For example, you won't have detailed physics and collision for body parts that some of Illusion's games have, but on the other hand, Skyrim is a complete game in itself, meaning you can integrate sex into your game however you see fit instead of being severly limited on how you enjoy your virtual porn.

 

And last but not least, critics in general are somewhat important because almost every company relies on false advertising and blatant lies to make big sales. You don't really know what you get when you buy a book, movie or game, so others do it for you and tell you if it's worth your time. And for that, you need extensive knowledge. If you want to be a book critic, you better know your shit or else you'll look like a complete moron in no time. Being a critic includes a bit more than BUT MOMMY I WANT THIS AND NOT THAT WHY CAN'T I HAVE IT THE WAY I WANT IT

[Vioxsis]

Now now...by that logic are we saying that only authors can be book critics? artist can be art critics? actors/directors for movies? and game developers for games and the like? and in this case modders for mods critics?

 

Your right, what they should have said is, modding is a hobby, what someone does in their spare time, for fun, is their business, and theirs alone.

 

Though I wouldn't say you can't criticise someone's hobby, but doing so is meaningless to the the point of stupidity, because as long as the modder enjoyed what they have done/created then what someone else thinks it should be like, or they should have done or that they should be doing something else instead, is irrelevant.

 

We aren't in it for profit or to please anybody other than ourselves, nor are most modders in it for the 'fame', so not bending to criticism impacts very little if at all (and the ones in it for fame don't take criticism very well).

The only criticism that is of any use, is constructive criticism that will help them improve.

 

 

I think some of the problem, is the distinction between a mod and a modder.

You can happily review/critique a mod. Though you would hope that it was just about the mod and not an excuse to take shots at the modder.

But critiquing a modder on what they should be doing, is something only their mother has the right to do.

 

 

So in short if you want to critique a mod on how well its made or if its well executed, etc then fair game.

But to critique a mod and say 'this is not what i want' or 'they should have done "this" instead' is not criticism.

[Kuロi]

 

And last but not least, critics in general are somewhat important because almost every company relies on false advertising and blatant lies to make big sales. You don't really know what you get when you buy a book, movie or game, so others do it for you and tell you if it's worth your time. And for that, you need extensive knowledge. If you want to be a book critic, you better know your shit or else you'll look like a complete moron in no time. Being a critic includes a bit more than BUT MOMMY I WANT THIS AND NOT THAT WHY CAN'T I HAVE IT THE WAY I WANT IT

 

 

I don't agree with that bit.

 

You don't need extensive knowledge to criticize something. Sometimes criticism comes from an expert. Sometimes from an small amateur with basic to average knowledge. Sometimes it even comes from someone who knows practically nothing of the subject.

 

And sometimes, the guy that knows less hits closer to home than any other guy. Or he looks like a complete retard and ends up ranting about something unrelated. The opinion from the experts is surely important, but you can often learn a lot from general masses too. Steam is a great example.

 

What I'm coming at is, every criticism is important : from the expert, from the amateur, from the newb. As long as one person as something to say that is not "this is flawless", it means said thing could improve.

 

What OP's asking for is potentially massive, maybe too much so for Skyrim's engine (then again, maybe not, modders always seem to find ways to impress us). That doesn't make his point less valid. That simply makes it harder to fix.

[germanicus]

 

And to make this clear, a modder is more valuable than a user who doesn't mod. This may sound harsh, but it's the reality. Imagine a community that consists entirely of people like you - without talent, without the motivation to do anything themselves, the only thing they can do is say thank you or express their wishes, with the absolute inability to make them true themselves, instead relying on others. Like a child that can't walk, doesn't want to learn how to walk but instead wants to be carried around all the time. Now compare that to a community that's full of people who do something. Guess which community won't last. Know your place, pal. Modders are the reason this place and many others exist in the first place. They provide the foundation for anything here.

 

Amen to that!!!