Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I've just recently become aware of some of the mods on the Nexus that completely de-feminize vanilla armor and the related from scratch mods that make guy armor for gals. Not sure if this is a small but seemingly slowly growing trend on the Nexus, or I just haven't been paying attention. Some of the replies on these mods crack me up though. Pretty clear that they've been neutered by the politically correct ultra-feminist crowd OR they're completely intimidated by women. Don't get me wrong here. I'm kind of a realist myself and my personal opinion is all the mods out there calling stuff armor when it's too skimpy to be lingerie are silly. Again, OPINION here, and I'm not telling anybody else how to play the game. These folks seem to take this to a level of crazy though. One guy in the comments section of the Practical Female Armors mod tried to argue that "Rigid "Boob-Plate" armor is stupendously dangerous. We're talking suicidal levels of stupid being required just to consider wearing the damn thing." He started out by complaining that the metal ridge running down the center line of the vanilla steel plate armor was the bigger crime to him though and it was just waiting to crack a female character's sternum when she fell on her face. Ironically the mod leaves the ridge on the flat chested "male" version that it gives females, lol Of course the other flaw in that specific argument is the assumption that any armorer is going to leave high ridges on the inside of the armor. That ridge on the Steel Plate armor is almost certainly decorative. Then of course there's the medical reality that long term squishing of breasts into something that they don't fit into is bad for breast health, AND the physics fact of curves promoting deflection. Granted we're talking glancing blows and arrow shots there. A solid hit with a Zweihänder is going to hurt no matter what. Armor isn't designed to be absolute protection against any attack though, and soldiers were taught to use footwork to turn killer blows into glancing ones that the armor could absorb. Meh, OK, end of rant, lol. I just find it funny and sad the length that some people go to to rationalize their hang-ups.
Suludi Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Got any links? And without having seen any of these mods or the comments: can you please stop hating on feminists? If people here demand tolerance for the most vile, disgusting and misogynistic mods, maybe you can try and tolerate OTHER people who feel comfortable with less nakedness and cum all over a face and women being kicked after sex, and simply look for immersion because fuck it, in reality, armour IS NOT supposed to be sexy, it's supposed to keep you alive, whether you're male or female. We always say we want to be tolerated, so perhaps we can try not to get intolerant ourselves. It's their game, let them do what they want no matter which part of the spectrum they come from or whether you like it or not. /rant
~magic~ Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Both you and the person you are arguing with are wrong. Boob plates are, in fact, an artistic license creation and not present in women's armour in history, and they have major disadvantages. However, none of the boob plate problems are in your summary, and your argument for them is also problematic. > You will never break someone's sternum by hitting the plate. That's insane. > Boob plates are not stupendously dangerous. They're not even somewhat dangerous. They're no more and no less than a design flaw, like uniformly sized chainmail. > Squishing breasts does not damage breast health. If they did, bras would be a health crisis. > Actual zweihanders weigh no more than 6-9 pounds and a blow to the armour would be unpleasant but not enough to put you out of battle. > Armour in Skyrim is hilariously inaccurate and would be unusable in real life. The adjustments in the mod address a minor design flaw when there are countless major design flaws. The problem with boob plates is that they direct blows into the chest, rather than away from it. This isn't a problem with swords and axes, but it is a serious concern for warhammers and maces.There's a reason most cuirasses in history had a line from the center of the neck to between the legs - all blows are directed away from the wearer. Boob plates are, in fact, a design flaw, but they are under artistic license. They are not dumb, they are not degrading (unlike just about everything in Mortal Kombat), but they are not practical either. If a modder wants to make Skyrim's armour more practical, don't start with the boob plates, start with the fact that all of the armour plates are needlessly thick, making them extraordinarily heavy while leaving several parts of user's body unprotected. The only armour that is even remotely practical in the game is the steel plate set.
Captain Cobra Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Women were very rarely in the battlefield (as infantry) anyways, so I don't see what they're so hung up about.
Suludi Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 We're not talking realism or european historic accuracy here. Skyrim is a fantasy game with magic and dragons. I don't care about those arguments, all I care about is that I would like to see a bit more tolerance HERE. Because if we start making fun of people who for whatever reason prefer less naked skin in their game, we're in no way different from those who hate us elsewhere.
Content Consumer Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Some of the replies on these mods crack me up though. As in "so bad it's funny" like many youtube comments? He started out by complaining that the metal ridge running down the center line of the vanilla steel plate armor was the bigger crime to him though and it was just waiting to crack a female character's sternum when she fell on her face. More or less true, but you'd have to fall pretty hard (depending on how the armor is shaped). I mean, if a male can crack his sternum by falling on a rock or piece of metal, a female can sure do it the same way. Got any links? http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/48160/? http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/3296/? Those are the two that I'm aware of. Both you and the person you are arguing with are wrong. In fact, everyone is wrong but me! Boob plates are, in fact, an artistic license creation and not present in women's armour in history, and they have major disadvantages. True. I remember watching... I thought it was skallagrim or lindy beige, but I can't find it now... it was a very good explanation. However, none of the boob plate problems are in your summary, and your argument for them is also problematic. > You will never break someone's sternum by hitting the plate. That's insane. But if a super mutant behemoth wielding a yanked-up fire hydrant hits you, it probably will. > Boob plates are not stupendously dangerous. They're not even somewhat dangerous. They're no more and no less than a design flaw, like uniformly sized chainmail. But what about falling down? I mean, if you're just, like, tripping and falling down, probably not... but many years ago I was in an Amtgard fight. I tripped forward at the same time I was whacked pretty damn hard on the back by an enormous man wielding a weapon that actually did sort of resemble a behemoth's fire hydrant. I fell on my chest and stomach, and goddamn did it hurt, I was super bruised for weeks afterward. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can picture one of those low-percentage scenarios where a cracked sternum might actually happen. > Squishing breasts does not damage breast health. If they did, bras would be a health crisis. They are. All women should remove them permanently. > Actual zweihanders weigh no more than 6-9 pounds and a blow to the armour would be unpleasant but not enough to put you out of battle. > Armour in Skyrim is hilariously inaccurate and would be unusable in real life. The adjustments in the mod address a minor design flaw when there are countless major design flaws. Yeah. Again, I thought I saw a skallagrim video about it, but I can't find it again. Curses. The problem with boob plates is that they direct blows into the chest, rather than away from it. This isn't a problem with swords and axes, but it is a serious concern for warhammers and maces. There's a reason most cuirasses in history had a line from the center of the neck to between the legs - all blows are directed away from the wearer. Concave vs. convex issue. Boob plates are, in fact, a design flaw, but they are under artistic license. They are not dumb, they are not degrading (unlike just about everything in Mortal Kombat), but they are not practical either. I did find this article, though. If a modder wants to make Skyrim's armour more practical, don't start with the boob plates, start with the fact that all of the armour plates are needlessly thick, making them extraordinarily heavy while leaving several parts of user's body unprotected. The only armour that is even remotely practical in the game is the steel plate set. We're not talking realism or european historic accuracy here. Skyrim is a fantasy game with magic and dragons. I don't care about those arguments, all I care about is that I would like to see a bit more tolerance HERE. Because if we start making fun of people who for whatever reason prefer less naked skin in their game, we're in no way different from those who hate us elsewhere. I believe it's because people tend to use the word "realism" when they mean "verisimilitude." But... Skyrim isn't realistic at all... but we can suspend disbelief when it comes to dragons and magic, because those are entirely fantastical. But armor? There are real-world examples of it, and real-world experts in it, and so it's analyzed more. If I'm an expert in botany, I can accept a dude who knocks people over by shouting, but I might get irritated at the words "fly amanita." if we start making fun of people who for whatever reason prefer less naked skin in their game, I thought it was more of a "realism" argument, and not an anti-prurient argument?
Suludi Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 if we start making fun of people who for whatever reason prefer less naked skin in their game, I thought it was more of a "realism" argument, and not an anti-prurient argument? Yep, I got entangled in my web of self-righteous enragement. ^^
Chaos63 Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Well to be fair, women were hardly regulars on battlefields in sword and shield days. As such, I doubt "boob plate" armors have much to look at for immersion to begin with. If you'd trully want to be immersed into middle age standards, you'd most likely find a colossal lack of heavy plated women anyway.
Vacaliga Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 People who can't separate fantasy and reality and therefore not judge each by their own merits, frankly scare the shit out of me.
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Got any links? And without having seen any of these mods or the comments: can you please stop hating on feminists? If people here demand tolerance for the most vile, disgusting and misogynistic mods, maybe you can try and tolerate OTHER people who feel comfortable with less nakedness and cum all over a face and women being kicked after sex, and simply look for immersion because fuck it, in reality, armour IS NOT supposed to be sexy, it's supposed to keep you alive, whether you're male or female. We always say we want to be tolerated, so perhaps we can try not to get intolerant ourselves. It's their game, let them do what they want no matter which part of the spectrum they come from or whether you like it or not. /rant I did say ultra-feminists. I have no problem with people working for tolerance. What I am sick and tired of is being told that as a white male I should be ashamed of existing and am responsible for everything bad in the world. So to put it simply, it's the extreme elements (of any group) I have a problem with. For example, politically most would label me conservative, (I'm really more of a moderate), but I can't stand Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity because they distort and enflame every issue they talk about, looking at it with the worst possible interpretation. They hurt the cause of smaller government and holding government accountable for managing it's finances properly. Bringing it full circle, the hard core radical elements of feminism hurt their cause also because they alienate alot of men and some more rational, balanced women
Vacaliga Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Got any links? And without having seen any of these mods or the comments: can you please stop hating on feminists? If people here demand tolerance for the most vile, disgusting and misogynistic mods, maybe you can try and tolerate OTHER people who feel comfortable with less nakedness and cum all over a face and women being kicked after sex, and simply look for immersion because fuck it, in reality, armour IS NOT supposed to be sexy, it's supposed to keep you alive, whether you're male or female. We always say we want to be tolerated, so perhaps we can try not to get intolerant ourselves. It's their game, let them do what they want no matter which part of the spectrum they come from or whether you like it or not. /rant I did say ultra-feminists. I have no problem with people working for tolerance. What I am sick and tired of is being told that as a white male I should be ashamed of existing and am responsible for everything bad in the world. So to put it simply, it's the extreme elements (of any group) I have a problem with. For example, politically most would label me conservative, (I'm really more of a moderate), but I can't stand Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity because they distort and enflame every issue they talk about, looking at it with the worst possible interpretation. They hurt the cause of smaller government and holding government accountable for managing it's finances properly. Bringing it full circle, the hard core radical elements of feminism hurt their cause also because they alienate alot of men and some more rational, balanced women That I feel is kinda the problem, don't really matter if it's a political, social or religious issue, as soon as it gets a name it tend to blend together making it damn near impossible to talk about in a sensible manner. Example: I am by strict definition an atheist, but i would never go around calling myself that, for the soul reason that i don't wanna be placed in the same box as people who utter hatred and call for cleansing of a all religion in the name of atheism, even knowing that is misuse of the term or whatever you wanna call it. I find it frustrating that every statement or expression of one's opinion has to be followed by an equally long footnote stating everything you don't mean by what you just said, all in the good spirit of political correctness. Fee-fi-fo-fum the smell of offence made us drop da bomb.
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Both you and the person you are arguing with are wrong. Boob plates are, in fact, an artistic license creation and not present in women's armour in history, and they have major disadvantages. However, none of the boob plate problems are in your summary, and your argument for them is also problematic. > You will never break someone's sternum by hitting the plate. That's insane. > Boob plates are not stupendously dangerous. They're not even somewhat dangerous. They're no more and no less than a design flaw, like uniformly sized chainmail. > Squishing breasts does not damage breast health. If they did, bras would be a health crisis. A properly fitting bra doesn't squish breasts, it lifts and supports. Common misconception though since almost half of women out there are wearing the wrong bra size according to a few studies. Getting back to the main argument on breast health though, all it takes is a bit of google searching to verify I'm right: One of many breast health sites The bondage fans here may not want to hear that, (and one does have to factor in the "long term" part of what I and the studies say), but it's still true. > Actual zweihanders weigh no more than 6-9 pounds and a blow to the armour would be unpleasant but not enough to put you out of battle. Weight is not the only factor. Angle of impact is a factor as is the strength of the user, how big a wind up they got, etc.... Force = Mass x Velocity after all. Needless to say there's also the quality of the blade and how sharp an edge it has needs to be considered too. I've heard cases of Zweihanders taking armored limbs clean off, (prolly cheap armor and a BIG knight) as well as the common anti cavalry tactic of cutting the legs out from underneath a horse, quite literally with a weapon like that. If it was only about weight, a properly made katana wouldn't be any more effective than a sabre > Armour in Skyrim is hilariously inaccurate and would be unusable in real life. The adjustments in the mod address a minor design flaw when there are countless major design flaws. There's a reason most cuirasses in history had a line from the center of the neck to between the legs - all blows are directed away from the wearer. I believe I indirectly said as much when I mentioned deflection and that knights, etc, were trained to move to create deflection instead of taking direct hits Boob plates are, in fact, a design flaw, but they are under artistic license. They are not dumb, they are not degrading (unlike just about everything in Mortal Kombat), but they are not practical either. If a modder wants to make Skyrim's armour more practical, don't start with the boob plates, start with the fact that all of the armour plates are needlessly thick, making them extraordinarily heavy while leaving several parts of user's body unprotected. The only armour that is even remotely practical in the game is the steel plate set. I never said that the armors weren't flawed otherwise. Imperial Heavy Armor looks to be an inch or more thick which would make it insanely heavy as you say. Pracitcal is all relative however. The Roman Legions conquered a huge portion of the known world wearing armor like Imperial Armor. Most of the armors have "skirts" instead of pants for the same reason Scots used to wear kilts; it makes it easy to move around mountainous terrain. Those same Scots were also the same folks that the Roman Empire that had conquered most of the known world were so scared of that they built Hayden's Wall to keep them out of England I'm getting sidetracked here though. I was picking on the mentality behind the mods, not the mods. "OMG, that armor has boob cups! Horrors!" It's silly. Sillier yet is the lengths a few people like the guy I quoted went to in order to bash the vanilla armor
Kaz Aanh Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Games has dragons and boobplates are not realistic. Dragons . . . okay . . . more like a wyverns. Where is 4leggedDragonDefenceForce when you need them?
Adorkable Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Boob plates are horrible. And they really can be dangerous because the shape will sort of focus the impact of the blow on one point (the middle of your chest) instead of diverting it to the sides. (Although opinions vary on this point.) But mostly they look stupid. YMMV, obviously. (I'd prefer armours in games to not be over-sexualized in any case (which is the only reason I can see to have armour with boob plates), but I don't care if modders create them. It's their preference, after all.)(And I'll have you know there are actually people who are afraid of breasts. It's called mastrophobia and I do actually have a very light version of this - which means I get creeped out by big breasts and sort of panic when a chick presses theirs against me. The more you know...xD)
Content Consumer Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 (And I'll have you know there are actually people who are afraid of breasts. It's called mastrophobia Huh. I think I finally get the point behind harem comedies now.
Kaz Aanh Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 But mostly they look stupid. YMMV, obviously. (I'd prefer armours in games to not be over-sexualized in any case (which is the only reason I can see to have armour with boob plates), but I don't care if modders create them. It's their preference, after all.) (And I'll have you know there are actually people who are afraid of breasts. It's called mastrophobia and I do actually have a very light version of this - which means I get creeped out by big breasts and sort of panic when a chick presses theirs against me. The more you know...xD) The first thing Im gonna do in Fallout 4 once people figure it out . I will add boobplates to the power armour and upload it to the steam workshop and nexus j, then I will sit and watch how these armour specialists and historics are beating each other to death with the posts.
RitualClarity Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 But mostly they look stupid. YMMV, obviously. (I'd prefer armours in games to not be over-sexualized in any case (which is the only reason I can see to have armour with boob plates), but I don't care if modders create them. It's their preference, after all.) (And I'll have you know there are actually people who are afraid of breasts. It's called mastrophobia and I do actually have a very light version of this - which means I get creeped out by big breasts and sort of panic when a chick presses theirs against me. The more you know...xD) The first thing Im gonna do in Fallout 4 once people figure it out . I will add boobplates to the power armour and upload it to the steam workshop and nexus j, then I will sit and watch how these armour specialists and historics are beating each other to death with the posts. Make sure they have tiny points were the nipples should be...
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 But mostly they look stupid. YMMV, obviously. (I'd prefer armours in games to not be over-sexualized in any case (which is the only reason I can see to have armour with boob plates), but I don't care if modders create them. It's their preference, after all.) (And I'll have you know there are actually people who are afraid of breasts. It's called mastrophobia and I do actually have a very light version of this - which means I get creeped out by big breasts and sort of panic when a chick presses theirs against me. The more you know...xD) The first thing Im gonna do in Fallout 4 once people figure it out . I will add boobplates to the power armour and upload it to the steam workshop and nexus j, then I will sit and watch how these armour specialists and historics are beating each other to death with the posts. You mean like so: LOL, see even Pepper's Iron Man armor has (more realistically sized) boob cups As I said before though, it wasn't about the mod, it was about the outright stated mentality behind the mods & their supporters
morgananinuala Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 But mostly they look stupid. YMMV, obviously. (I'd prefer armours in games to not be over-sexualized in any case (which is the only reason I can see to have armour with boob plates), but I don't care if modders create them. It's their preference, after all.) (And I'll have you know there are actually people who are afraid of breasts. It's called mastrophobia and I do actually have a very light version of this - which means I get creeped out by big breasts and sort of panic when a chick presses theirs against me. The more you know...xD) The first thing Im gonna do in Fallout 4 once people figure it out . I will add boobplates to the power armour and upload it to the steam workshop and nexus j, then I will sit and watch how these armour specialists and historics are beating each other to death with the posts. Make sure they have tiny points were the nipples should be... Rocket noses, like the Raider Bombshell armor. With an option to heat them with an electric current (armor swapping? Maybe it'll have dynamic texture swapping?) to red heat, so you can have... a really hot set of torpedoes. Yeah. I said it. Also, seriously, dunno if it's radfems* doing the armor thing, or nerds trying to shed the image of fat neckbeards who masturbate to chainmail bikinis, or history buffs. HERstory buff radfem neckbeards? Oh, dear me... *Who creep me out, and are the reason I avoid the label feminist like a bad case of anorgasmia
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Rocket noses, like the Raider Bombshell armor. With an option to heat them with an electric current (armor swapping? Maybe it'll have dynamic texture swapping?) to red heat, so you can have... a really hot set of torpedoes. Yeah. I said it. Also, seriously, dunno if it's radfems* doing the armor thing, or nerds trying to shed the image of fat neckbeards who masturbate to chainmail bikinis, or history buffs. HERstory buff radfem neckbeards? Oh, dear me... *Who creep me out, and are the reason I avoid the label feminist like a bad case of anorgasmia THAT cracked me up, becuase it made me remember an OLD (ancient) anime called Transor Z. It was a typical Giant Mecha / Robot anime. The sidekick robot in the series was giant female robot and it's boobs were rocket launchers. :D Apparently it wasn't the only one either. I found this anime on YouTube with the same "torpedos" And we're sexist here in America? lol
Darkening Demise Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 "EEK! women are not seen as superior to the penis! Quick call Anita Sarkeesian! Cry the S word! We must become superior to the penis!" "Who cares if someone puts a woman in a skimpy outfit? It's just a game. How come men can be thrown into skimpy outfits and showed to be macho douches?" "Shut up pig! All hail the mighty uterus!" "*sigh* we can't do anything unless the femenazis are happy, which won't happen as long as the penis continues to exist." "Shut up pig! All hail the mighty vagina!" So goes the ways of this pointless never ending argument. Women can degrade men all they want though. Plus America sees the female gender as something special that must be treated like a Disney Princess otherwise you're a sexist dick. Ah this world makes you very proud to be in it doesn't it? Excuse me while I go drink a cold one then smack my head into the wall every time I see a angry bleeding pussy not having its way over everyone else and using a over used word (sexism) to continue its control disorder.
musicman019 Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 yeah i don't have a fear of boobs just an eeeeeew feeling
morgananinuala Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Eh, there's real sexism, don't be fooled. Gender roles are too goddamn inflexible, and I've lost count of the times I've been criticized for not acting enough like a girl or doing the wrong things. OTOH, half those times were from self-proclaimed feminists, so, yeah. And guys get a few short ends of the stick, too. Really, everyone sucks. Lets fix shit, or live life, or whatever, and not point fingers at half the human race. That doesn't do anyone any good. EDIT: Also, Anita Sarkeesian is a lying, stealing, hypocritical douchespew who actually makes money on t-shirts made from the suffering of GENUINELY oppressed women, so fuck 'er with a chainsaw.
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Eh, there's real sexism, don't be fooled. Gender roles are too goddamn inflexible, and I've lost count of the times I've been criticized for not acting enough like a girl or doing the wrong things. OTOH, half those times were from self-proclaimed feminists, so, yeah. And guys get a few short ends of the stick, too. Really, everyone sucks. Lets fix shit, or live life, or whatever, and not point fingers at half the human race. That doesn't do anyone any good. EDIT: Also, Anita Sarkeesian is a lying, stealing, hypocritical douchespew who actually makes money on t-shirts made from the suffering of GENUINELY oppressed women, so fuck 'er with a chainsaw. Yep. That's what I meant by the extremes of each group keeping us from making any progress on life's issues. The trouble is the people with common sense approaches to issues tend to not get involved enough in those issues.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.