Gameplayer Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 I'm all for gameworks, and I'm not alone in that. Also the alternative to not implementing gameworks/PhysX features is to basically make the PC users that have Nvidia products mad and complain that they were lazy.
Guest Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 A big question is: Is Bethesda going to switch from the Havok system to the PhysX system? This will require a huge amount of development. But we will have more open and documented tools to handle HDT, meshes scaling, and animations (and wind, dust, water, fire, etc.)
Kidaen Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I'm all for gameworks, and I'm not alone in that. Also the alternative to not implementing gameworks/PhysX features is to basically make the PC users that have Nvidia products mad and complain that they were lazy. And I'm not alone in outright hating the phrase "gameworks integration" because it means worse performance in general, and missing features entirely, all because I didn't shell out for several $1000 graphics cards. And implementing gameworks/PhysX features is to make the PC users that have non-Nvidia products mad and complain of being bought out. So it's a lose-lose situation.
Sacremas Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 It won't be implemented unless both the X-Bone and PS4 can handle PhysX/Gameworks. And when that day comes, AMD is out of luck.
Guest Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 It won't be implemented unless both the X-Bone and PS4 can handle PhysX/Gameworks. And when that day comes, AMD is out of luck. Both consoles do not support it. The "rumors" on internet are for only the PC version. P.S. are you aware that both Xbox One and PS4 use a "AMD" chip as GPU, and AMD is the one that owns ATI, do you? (Of course you do, it was sarcastic. Sorry)
bjornk Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 It won't be implemented unless both the X-Bone and PS4 can handle PhysX/Gameworks. And when that day comes, AMD is out of luck. Both consoles do not support it. The "rumors" on internet are for only the PC version. P.S. are you aware that both Xbox One and PS4 use a "AMD" chip as GPU, and AMD is the one that owns ATI, do you? (Of course you do, it was sarcastic. Sorry) You sure? http://www.anandtech.com/show/8546/nvidia-gameworks-more-effects-with-less-effort http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-physx-support-for-microsoft-xbox-one-game-console https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX https://developer.nvidia.com/physx-sdk
RitualClarity Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 That made me think. Could the PC version have some features that the xbox/Playstation version wouldn't?
Guest Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 You sure? As official developer I can say that: * nVidia provides the APIs and the framework to support consoles: YES! That is true. * The native OS that runs on the console uses it: NO! That is my problem. On the Xbox you can do a GXF extension (a sort of plugin) to use it. But on PS4 I am not aware of a way to do it. nVidia is pushing hard to have it included in consoles by default. But right now with little success. For a PC (Win and Linux) it is easy to use it directly as plugin. For Mac there are some small problems, but I cannot say it for sure, because i am not a Mac developer at all.
RitualClarity Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 CPU you develop for Xbox games? If so cool..
Guest Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 CPU you develop for Xbox games? If so cool.. Mainly I direct development. I don't do active development anymore. But of course I know the problems of my team. (So when I said before: "As Official Developer" I should haven said: "As Director of Official Developers", but it was too spooky.)
Gameplayer Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 I'm all for gameworks, and I'm not alone in that. Also the alternative to not implementing gameworks/PhysX features is to basically make the PC users that have Nvidia products mad and complain that they were lazy. And I'm not alone in outright hating the phrase "gameworks integration" because it means worse performance in general, and missing features entirely, all because I didn't shell out for several $1000 graphics cards. And implementing gameworks/PhysX features is to make the PC users that have non-Nvidia products mad and complain of being bought out. So it's a lose-lose situation. Its not a 1,000 USD. You could buy a GTX 780 for like 200 now and pair that off with a GTX 660 for around $60. So that's like 260. Nvidia can use a 8,000 series card and above for PhysX so if you don't have Mobo with 2 PCI-E2 slots and PSU for it look around for an older generation Nvidia card that will fit the smaller slot on your Mobo usually right next to where your main video card is. You could probably buy a second card to slave for 20-50 bucks. So ya you could pay a lot less than you think if you have the PSU overhead for it. If your like me you upgraded from a GTX 580 and weren't sure what to do with the card welp guess what a lot of cool games use Gameworks, so I didn't have to think real hard what to do with the card I upgraded from nope just plugged it back in.
Sacremas Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 It won't be implemented unless both the X-Bone and PS4 can handle PhysX/Gameworks. And when that day comes, AMD is out of luck. Both consoles do not support it. The "rumors" on internet are for only the PC version. P.S. are you aware that both Xbox One and PS4 use a "AMD" chip as GPU, and AMD is the one that owns ATI, do you? (Of course you do, it was sarcastic. Sorry) What is this sarcasm thing? I have heard of it before, is it another language? It's not going to happen full intergration for a platform wide game unless the features that would be missing in those not having PhysX/etc would be very minimal and mainly performance based. If you could easily put in a substiute that wouldn't impact the framerate of a console, then sure. Hairworks, yeah sure that's not something that would be obviously missing if left out of the PS4 version, but replacing the Havoc system of Gamebryo with it? Absolutely not. Basically don't expect any more support than say Witcher 3 gave it for these reasons, the cost of making alternate versions of the games outweigh anything nVidia could afford to pay them to use it for anything but small stuff. And the mods for consoles thing amplify this even more, systems like physics on a large scale needs to be the same for most mods not texture replacements or basic quests or small equipment addons to work across all three platforms.
Gameplayer Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 If gameworks is in it sounds like it would be limited from what you guys are saying shoot.
RitualClarity Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 CPU you develop for Xbox games? If so cool.. Mainly I direct development. I don't do active development anymore. But of course I know the problems of my team. (So when I said before: "As Official Developer" I should haven said: "As Director of Official Developers", but it was too spooky.) Makes sense.. CPU directs the data of a computer so you direct your team.. lol It won't be implemented unless both the X-Bone and PS4 can handle PhysX/Gameworks. And when that day comes, AMD is out of luck. Both consoles do not support it. The "rumors" on internet are for only the PC version. P.S. are you aware that both Xbox One and PS4 use a "AMD" chip as GPU, and AMD is the one that owns ATI, do you? (Of course you do, it was sarcastic. Sorry) What is this sarcasm thing? I have heard of it before, is it another language? It's not going to happen full intergration for a platform wide game unless the features that would be missing in those not having PhysX/etc would be very minimal and mainly performance based. If you could easily put in a substiute that wouldn't impact the framerate of a console, then sure. Hairworks, yeah sure that's not something that would be obviously missing if left out of the PS4 version, but replacing the Havoc system of Gamebryo with it? Absolutely not. Basically don't expect any more support than say Witcher 3 gave it for these reasons, the cost of making alternate versions of the games outweigh anything nVidia could afford to pay them to use it for anything but small stuff. And the mods for consoles thing amplify this even more, systems like physics on a large scale needs to be the same for most mods not texture replacements or basic quests or small equipment addons to work across all three platforms. Would that mean that the official editor that they release for the PC would be hampered in some way?
Sacremas Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Would that mean that the official editor that they release for the PC would be hampered in some way? Exactly the same way most likely, if it doesn't work on a console, you won't be able to make it with the creation kit because they wouldn't have put those capabilites into it to begin with. According to Bethesda what we're getting is the same kit they used to make the game (minus whatever is copyrighted and limited so it would still need the base ESM files always, you can't use it to make a NEW game with it), and they wouldn't have bothered putting in something they never could have used for 2/3 of their marked share, and they definetly don't want problems later on when mods are made for consoles using the kit Not that that's anything new. FNIS anyone? This also most likely means anything that can't be made with the creation kit alone and fed right into your game (not even xEdit or Wrye Bash helping out, let alone FO4SE, a FNIS equivalent or the like) will not work at all on a console. UNLESS of course a mod manager with intergrated elements of xEdit and Wrye Bash is part of the base game and present on consoles, or will be forthcoming, in which case it's the deaht blow of both Mod Organizer and NMM as well as these tools. But that's a pretty big if, and I'm not crediting them with that kind of foresight, basically I think they're good with console mods only being basic alterations of a kind PC users will see in the first year or so alone.
Guest Aanime Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 oh wow a game thats literally a step backwards in every way from fallout new vegas (best in series) oh wooow i cant wait... lmfao
RitualClarity Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 This also most likely means anything that can't be made with the creation kit alone and fed right into your game (not even xEdit or Wrye Bash helping out, let alone FO4SE, a FNIS equivalent or the like) will not work at all on a console. UNLESS of course a mod manager with intergrated elements of xEdit and Wrye Bash is part of the base game and present on consoles, or will be forthcoming, in which case it's the deaht blow of both Mod Organizer and NMM as well as these tools. But that's a pretty big if, and I'm not crediting them with that kind of foresight, basically I think they're good with console mods only being basic alterations of a kind PC users will see in the first year or so alone. It is possible considering that they might (?) introduce paid modding. Has that been confirmed ? . Anyway. With Xbox and Playstation etc. They might create a mod manager however it would be very simple likely. Mostly just to get the mods ordered properly so that we wouldn't have to redate the ESM/BSAs etc. (I believe that was what was needed early on in Oblivion times correct?).
Sacremas Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Here's the mods I'm guessing we'll see that can also be put on consoles. This doens't include nude meshes because that won't pass through Bethesda.net, you can get better body and face textures sure but perma underwear will be the deal. Even though Rockstar, their only real competitor in terms of scale doesn't mind including both flappy cocks and wobbly tits in their base games. Who knows, maybe they'll unlcench their sphincter on this but it won't happen until well after likely next year's holiday season out of fear of ratings changes. Expanded "minecraft" stuff; in the base game we know we're only allowed to build our masterpieces in designated areas, several areas yes but only some spots. Modders will change that pretty quick, and probably break the caravan system in the process until someone can fix the scripting as well. Also more items, being able to paint your tree-houses will come soon if it's not in the game to begin with, afterwards expect the pre-war stuff to available as building materials soon, then probably things like space staitons, all sorts of themes using every material in the game. Once the scripting has been handled in a uniform way that every consequent mod won't break it, likely via a ESM framework, expect the caravan, settlement, raiding and such to be expanded on. To begin with before we even get here, expect caravan stocks to get expanded and new caravans carrying modded items to show up. Expanded weapon mods; sure it may have something like 600 possible weapon mods now, but when was that ever enough? Since we have limited idea what is possible to begin with, there's no way to tell what may be added here, but if things like dual wielding isn't in the game it will show up here, even if it's one weapon called "dual 10 MM pistols" or the like, until someone can figure out how to implement it properly (which due to a probable skeleton change won't be possible for consoles most likely. Rebalancings; this is something I'm going to wait a year to 18 months at least before considering, probably only after a complete walkthrough of my own using everything that's out there, but expect within days some guy to become annoyed at the tiniest of things and release a mod for it and then for people who haven't tried the game yet use it and swear to it. This will only escalate until we see a Wanderer's Edition type of mod with a complete rebalancing of the whole game, I'm reasonably certain the original didn't need FOSE so should be widely applicable. I'm pretty sure that unless there's something I just can't stand at all I will wait until this type of overhaul. The likes of needs mods even if there is a Hardcore mode in the game (neither confirmed nor denied so far) falls under here. Expect this to rebalance all weapon damages and weapon mod effects (I noticed in the trailer a lot of weapon changes didn't get the stat changes I would expect) and then later mods needing to be patched for it or made for it, in the process breaking and needing different versions of the expanded weapon mods type of mods. Hud Modes; you just know Gopher's got the next iHud ready for upload very soon after release, same goes with DynaVision and such. These aren't very complex mods and Gopher's the kind of modder to evne simplify them to make them available for console. UI mods will follow, along with a MCM. Killable dog; yeah you know someone's going to unflag his essential status pretty soon and put it out. I'd rather wait for an AFT or some other more comprehensive tool even if I for some reason wanted the dog to die (like due to Hardcore type of play). Companion tools in general falls under this very specific header of which this is but the first mod that will come out (taking bets on it if you have too much money), but only expect basic "fixes" to Bethesda's mess-ups rather than revolutionizing new ideas which will likely need script extender. Silent Protagonist; This is something that will come out relatively soon, a mod that reverts the conversation system to Fallout 3 style with a silent protagonist and your lines spelled out instead of hinted to. Expect 99 % of quest mods that don't lack dialogue entirely (such as via letters to start the quest and then just a dungeon romp) then later to require this or something along the lines of Fuz Roh Doh to work. Feel free to expand to this.
Kidaen Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Its not a 1,000 USD. You could buy a GTX 780 for like 200 now and pair that off with a GTX 660 for around $60. So that's like 260. Nvidia can use a 8,000 series card and above for PhysX so if you don't have Mobo with 2 PCI-E2 slots and PSU for it look around for an older generation Nvidia card that will fit the smaller slot on your Mobo usually right next to where your main video card is. You could probably buy a second card to slave for 20-50 bucks. So ya you could pay a lot less than you think if you have the PSU overhead for it. If your like me you upgraded from a GTX 580 and weren't sure what to do with the card welp guess what a lot of cool games use Gameworks, so I didn't have to think real hard what to do with the card I upgraded from nope just plugged it back in. Except the entire platform of Nvidia gameworks is to sell more their more expensive lines; because why run something hilariously computationally expensive like Hairworks when you have to run the game at reduced settings almost everywhere else on lesser cards to compensate? As for being like you? I'm not, I built my first machine a little less than two years ago, and bought mostly low-mid-range components because that's what I could afford, when factoring in stuff like a monitor, a case, and all of the other stuff I needed that everyone ignores when talking about building a computer (and I still went overbudget on it because of that).
Guest Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 As for being like you? I'm not, I built my first machine a little less than two years ago, and bought mostly low-mid-range components because that's what I could afford, when factoring in stuff like a monitor, a case, and all of the other stuff I needed that everyone ignores when talking about building a computer (and I still went overbudget on it because of that). I am with you. I did a quick check on a major online IT hardware retailer in US, and I pick the bare minimum items required. Including all the "ignored items, but not the monitor and the orating system): Case $ 49 Power supply (Corsair) $ 50 Motherboard (MSI Z97) $ 110 CPU (i5-4460 3.2Ghz - the i5-2300 is no more available) $ 190 8GB ram (Corsair) $ 47 GeForce GTX 650 2Gb (GX 550 is no more available...) $ 102 HD rotational (Seagate barracuda 1.5TB) $ 50 Mouse & Keyboard (Logitech): $ 15 Total = $ 613 to have just a little bit more than the minimum requirements. * All prices taxes included; US retailer; Prices rounded up to the next integer dollar.
Sacremas Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I skipped the cost of the monitor sort of. I already had a widescreen LCD TV, and that works pretty good as a monitor above a certain refresh rate, and your video card will let you connect to the TV just fine. A wireless keyboard and mouse (or extension cord on the wire if you don't risk tripping, personally I do wireless keyboard and extended mouse as only the mouse needs the rapid updates) combined with a nice comfy chair completes the ensemble. Also works with a cheaper plasma TV if you have one of those, but they will easily end up burning marks from use as a computer screen if you don't make judicious use of screensavers and the like, a LCD will never burn.
ElectricSheep Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I was dreaming when a sudden bump and a distant, fearful cry awakened me; it was Dork0ne's giant shit hitting the ground somewhere in England as he was shaking in utter terror.
Guest Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 ...combined with a nice comfy chair completes the ensemble... OK, now the price can go up quickly
Sacremas Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 ...combined with a nice comfy chair completes the ensemble... OK, now the price can go up quickly Yeah because you totally never had a comfy chair already. Got this one from my grandmother that had stood in her house for like ten years, handle on the side flips out the foot rest, i've fallen asleep in it a lot. Wrap your legs in a nice fleece blanket during the colder times, put the wireless keyboard ontop, a small table next to you with room for the mouse, pad and large Redbull, and you're ready. Use same monitor for your TV, blueray, Xbox or whatever. Spend what you saved on a GTX 980 4 gig.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 If I were to upgrade my current game rig, I need to swap out my I5 750 2.67GHz quadcore CPU and my GTX 260 GPU. I mean I may manage to be able to play the game but on low settings, but I find that to defeat the purpose of what the game was intended to look. In worst case, I'm not that desperate to play a game on settings I wouldn't ever want to experience it at. And because this is all on a pre built Gateway FX series gaming PC, I would rather build an entirely new machine. I have a 750w FSP Group PSU, but I kinda fear that because it's over 6 years old that if I were to put hardware that consumes more energy it's lifespan will come much sooner from it's age and jack up my new upgraded hardware. I just rather not risk it. The upside is that I have a 24GM77 144Hz LG monitor, Mionix NAOS 3200 mouse, and a K70 Corsair keyboard and also my Win7 OEM home edition I bought a long time ago. The only thing I would have to do is get a good tower with airflow, much better GPU, CPU and slightly better PSU, cables, fans and a 1+ TB HDD and maybe a SDD of 50GB or higher (not really needed but because i hear it's much more stable to run games through a SDD I may consider this). My motherboard needs to be replaced too. I don't think it would be able to handle a card I would want along with the other hardware I would want if I upgraded.
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