A Forsworn Story

[mybrainhurts]

@ Delzaron -

 

Why is the Dibellan Sisterhood relevant to your mod? I mean, looking at the Forsworn, their beliefs, and practices as you have sketched them out so far - how do the Sisters even factor in apart from the fact that they are interlopers in the Reach, like all of the other non-Forsworn are? If it's a plot device to get the player into contact with the Forsworn then there must be 1000 other ways to do that. But if it's deeper than a plot device I'm curious to know how.

 

----------------------------

 

Man, I love the idea and story, but it is one of the buggiest things ever and your grammar suuuuuuucks.

 

  Nice first post ...

[sen4mi]

Conflicts ;

- Maybe Kingdom of forsworns (I want to use the fort place for a giant attack).

- Devious Cidhna. Not a real conflict, but I don't understand why Forsworns will enslave and rape one of them... The fact they need sex is not enough to justify it.

- Sacrificial Spriggan. Not a real conflict, but I don't understand why Forsworns will enslave and curse one of them... and, in my mod, Broken towers redoubt forsworn are agree to 'deliver' Fjotra.

 

I want to point out that although in some sense all humans are similar - we all need to eat food, we all have goals and ideals and things we are and are not willing to do, and so on... despite this, different people still will approach problems and issues in different ways.

 

Of course, computer games are extremely constrained in the sorts of human complexity that they can represent.

 

So, here's some perhaps relevant concepts:

 

(*) Prisoners in real life may interact in ways which would not be acceptable outside of prison.

 

(*) People tend to not talk about their sexual encounters (some do, most people do not).

 

(*) Rape, in skyrim, like combat in skyrim, is game play partially because it's difficult to represent deep meaningful relationships in a computer game.

 

(*) Different people have widely different sexual preferences. (And, for good biological reasons, we tend to feel negatively - disgusted, sometimes - when facing sexuality outside of our preferences and outside our current moods.)

 

(*) Fictional presentations of concepts tend to be the sorts of things which would be miserable and painful if we encountered them in real life. There's good reasons for this, also. (We need the negatives for contrast to have positive moments stand out.)

 

(*) Even in real life, outside of prison, we can relatively easily find examples and/or statistics of coercive and/or semi-coercive sexual encounters even between people who are not prepared to kill each other.

 

Of course, it can't all be sex, for much the reason it can't be all of anything else. "All sex, all the time" would get old, fast. So I can also empathize with wanting to trim some of that back.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

I think you are expecting all of the forsworn to have the same kind of personality. And factions sort of encourage that sort of thing... but I think that that's a weakness of factions.

 

The classic cliche is that rape is a fate worse than death. But rape is a collection of fates, many better than death. And this might be a narrative problem? People can survive rape and then expect that other people's experiences will be similar to theirs?

 

I know that I have felt reluctant to work on rape oriented narratives recently, for fear of encouraging such things in real life. But, honestly, looking over statistics and history, I think that I was being arrogant in my fear. Rape has been with us throughout the ages. Millions and hundreds of millions, probably billions of people have experienced rape. So I am beginning to understand that if I can produce narratives which include rape I might actually be defusing some of the underlying problem (for my limited audiences). [Of course, my preferred "rape narrative" seems to me to be much milder than some people's preferences, and harsher than other people's.]

[Delzaron]

the game crashing when i try to walk around whiterun the  area out of whiterun

 

Again ?

Cell coordinates problem...

If you look the map when you are in the forgotten vally, you see the game understand you are near whiterun.

 

I don;t know yet how to fix that.

Usually, with bleackreach or other small worls, it's dont create problems

Man, I love the idea and story, but it is one of the buggiest things ever and your grammar suuuuuuucks.

 

I'm french. My english level was considered enough for passing my Phd.

For now, I wanted to create the mod. I don't focuss on gramar... and I have a job to find. Modding is not a priority.

 

A more constructive post will be listing the bigger mistakes...

 

 

 

@ Delzaron -

 

Why is the Dibellan Sisterhood relevant to your mod? I mean, looking at the Forsworn, their beliefs, and practices as you have sketched them out so far - how do the Sisters even factor in apart from the fact that they are interlopers in the Reach, like all of the other non-Forsworn are? If it's a plot device to get the player into contact with the Forsworn then there must be 1000 other ways to do that. But if it's deeper than a plot device I'm curious to know how.

 

----------------------------

 

Man, I love the idea and story, but it is one of the buggiest things ever and your grammar suuuuuuucks.

 

  Nice first post ...

 

Dibella sisterhood hood is required to made Fjotra an adult, and play the sisterof old gods quest. Thats all.

If you don't want this quest, Dibella s not required.

Who is Thusnelda and where do I find him or her there is no quest marker see screenshot 

 

I know.

It's due to the fact i spllited this quest in two.

You will find thusnelda in the village.

[animegirls1999]

I'm not in the forgotten vally I'm in the area around whiterun and it crashes

[Wraxith]

Hi can someone tell me how to skip shaman ceremony i start quest by talking to Katalia everyone stands around tree and nothing happends .. 

[Delzaron]

Hi can someone tell me how to skip shaman ceremony i start quest by talking to Katalia everyone stands around tree and nothing happends .. 

 

Use console

 

AFS2Shamanceremony stage 200.

 

It's like an AI disable problem. I will made a sery of trials when i can.

[Delzaron]

I'm not in the forgotten vally I'm in the area around whiterun and it crashes

 

I know.

In the foirst version of the mod, i dont specify the cell of the small world are... in the small world.

It made a lot of conflicts with Whiterun tundra cellesm due to coordinates.

 

So, i improve the small world, and put all my cells in that small world, and specify they are related to it. The small worls id aslo dependent of Tamriel, not a part of it.

 

I don't understand why the problem is still here. Do you exactly wich cells are concerned ?

 

Aqqh says it's the area in between Redorans Retreat (bandit hideout) and Whiterun.

Wilderness -2, -1 cell. can you confirm ?

 

 

The mod will be useless if this cell conflict can't be fixed.

 

[R4ptile]

I have a different problem. After I talked to the mercenaries, I don´t get thrown in jail they just attack me. Has anyone a solution?

[Delzaron]

I have a different problem. After I talked to the mercenaries, I don´t get thrown in jail they just attack me. Has anyone a solution?

 

Use setstage AFS1Begin 100 and 110 for now.

 

You will need to wait the next version.

 

I know the problem :

- i use mercenaires with a faction ennemy of forswornfriend. Or, in the previous version of this quest, i add this faction to player to made him friend with Katalia.

- i believe i desactivate the startfight funtion. Did ariovist attacks you ?

[R4ptile]

Ok I tried again. When I go to the mercenary camp, the questmaker is above Shae and says: "Go to the camp". When I did this, the objective is to talk to Ariovist. He has no dialogue option, I have to talk Shae first. After that I talk to him and he say´s, that I have to to jail. Then Beitild and Fruki attack me and nothing happens. The ojective says "You are arrested" and "Talk to Ariovist". 

[Delzaron]

Ok I tried again. When I go to the mercenary camp, the questmaker is above Shae and says: "Go to the camp". When I did this, the objective is to talk to Ariovist. He has no dialogue option, I have to talk Shae first. After that I talk to him and he say´s, that I have to to jail. Then Beitild and Fruki attack me and nothing happens. The ojective says "You are arrested" and "Talk to Ariovist". 

 

Ok, i see. I just forget to modify objectives and delete a function...

 

Pass the quest.

 

Edit : I will fix that soon my computer will be repaired. Damages are less than exepected, I could run tests and creationkit tonight.

 

But the major problem remains the cell conflict.

[dragenx]

Another problem Katalia just stand there on the wolf quest what do I need to do 

[Slilo]

 

Ok I tried again. When I go to the mercenary camp, the questmaker is above Shae and says: "Go to the camp". When I did this, the objective is to talk to Ariovist. He has no dialogue option, I have to talk Shae first. After that I talk to him and he say´s, that I have to to jail. Then Beitild and Fruki attack me and nothing happens. The ojective says "You are arrested" and "Talk to Ariovist". 

 

Ok, i see. I just forget to modify objectives and delete a function...

 

Pass the quest.

 

Edit : I will fix that soon my computer will be repaired. Damages are less than exepected, I could run tests and creationkit tonight.

 

But the major problem remains the cell conflict.

 

Have some issue.

How skip this stage?

I trying to use setobjectivecompleted, but it is not work.

[Delzaron]

Another problem Katalia just stand there on the wolf quest what do I need to do 

 

Setstage command.

The quest is AFSNewShaman2. It's due to my heavy sexscenes scripts

 

Thanks, AqqH works on it. It will be better in the next release.

 

 

Ok I tried again. When I go to the mercenary camp, the questmaker is above Shae and says: "Go to the camp". When I did this, the objective is to talk to Ariovist. He has no dialogue option, I have to talk Shae first. After that I talk to him and he say´s, that I have to to jail. Then Beitild and Fruki attack me and nothing happens. The ojective says "You are arrested" and "Talk to Ariovist". 

 

Ok, i see. I just forget to modify objectives and delete a function...

 

Pass the quest.

 

Edit : I will fix that soon my computer will be repaired. Damages are less than exepected, I could run tests and creationkit tonight.

 

But the major problem remains the cell conflict.

 

Have some issue.

How skip this stage?

I trying to use setobjectivecompleted, but it is not work.

 

 

Use this :

Setstage AFS1begin 100, Setstage AFS1begin 110.

 

I will fix that when I can. I let the mod to AqqH for now.

[Delzaron]

 

Conflicts ;

- Maybe Kingdom of forsworns (I want to use the fort place for a giant attack).

- Devious Cidhna. Not a real conflict, but I don't understand why Forsworns will enslave and rape one of them... The fact they need sex is not enough to justify it.

- Sacrificial Spriggan. Not a real conflict, but I don't understand why Forsworns will enslave and curse one of them... and, in my mod, Broken towers redoubt forsworn are agree to 'deliver' Fjotra.

 

I want to point out that although in some sense all humans are similar - we all need to eat food, we all have goals and ideals and things we are and are not willing to do, and so on... despite this, different people still will approach problems and issues in different ways.

 

Of course, computer games are extremely constrained in the sorts of human complexity that they can represent.

 

So, here's some perhaps relevant concepts:

 

(*) Prisoners in real life may interact in ways which would not be acceptable outside of prison.

 

(*) People tend to not talk about their sexual encounters (some do, most people do not).

 

(*) Rape, in skyrim, like combat in skyrim, is game play partially because it's difficult to represent deep meaningful relationships in a computer game.

 

(*) Different people have widely different sexual preferences. (And, for good biological reasons, we tend to feel negatively - disgusted, sometimes - when facing sexuality outside of our preferences and outside our current moods.)

 

(*) Fictional presentations of concepts tend to be the sorts of things which would be miserable and painful if we encountered them in real life. There's good reasons for this, also. (We need the negatives for contrast to have positive moments stand out.)

 

(*) Even in real life, outside of prison, we can relatively easily find examples and/or statistics of coercive and/or semi-coercive sexual encounters even between people who are not prepared to kill each other.

 

Of course, it can't all be sex, for much the reason it can't be all of anything else. "All sex, all the time" would get old, fast. So I can also empathize with wanting to trim some of that back.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

I think you are expecting all of the forsworn to have the same kind of personality. And factions sort of encourage that sort of thing... but I think that that's a weakness of factions.

 

The classic cliche is that rape is a fate worse than death. But rape is a collection of fates, many better than death. And this might be a narrative problem? People can survive rape and then expect that other people's experiences will be similar to theirs?

 

I know that I have felt reluctant to work on rape oriented narratives recently, for fear of encouraging such things in real life. But, honestly, looking over statistics and history, I think that I was being arrogant in my fear. Rape has been with us throughout the ages. Millions and hundreds of millions, probably billions of people have experienced rape. So I am beginning to understand that if I can produce narratives which include rape I might actually be defusing some of the underlying problem (for my limited audiences). [Of course, my preferred "rape narrative" seems to me to be much milder than some people's preferences, and harsher than other people's.]

 

 

You made a point.

My problems are

- you're a fornsworn. Prionsers need sex and rape, ok. Madanch needs sex, ok.... It's after I see a  lore problem.

- sacrificial spriggan story is you're captured after releasing Fjotra. Or, in my mod, Fjotra is released woth the agreement of Broken towers forsworns.

Again, lore consideration. The only thing which can explain this is a conflict between Armin and an Hagreven, who decide to punish you for breaking her plans...

 

[jxm]

Use this :

Setstage AFS1begin 100, Setstage AFS1begin 110.

 

I will fix that when I can. I let the mod to AqqH for now.

 

 

Hmm...I just tried the new version to see the new start, but how exactly do those commands work? All setstage etc 100 does is make Ariovist angry, 110 seems to do nothing at all. Am I missing something here using those commands? Is there a specific order to use them ?

 

Sorry to ask, never used console that much I have to say... But maybe I'll just wait for a next release, but I am too curious to see the changes ^^

[Delzaron]

 

Use this :

Setstage AFS1begin 100, Setstage AFS1begin 110.

 

I will fix that when I can. I let the mod to AqqH for now.

 

 

Hmm...I just tried the new version to see the new start, but how exactly do those commands work? All setstage etc 100 does is make Ariovist angry, 110 seems to do nothing at all. Am I missing something here using those commands? Is there a specific order to use them ?

 

Sorry to ask, never used console that much I have to say... But maybe I'll just wait for a next release, but I am too curious to see the changes ^^

 

 

Ok. OI don't test it yet, but I will release now the AFS1.48 version.

- contains the frist modified quests.

- cleaned

- with Aqqh fixes, and scripts.

 

[qcgtzxlw]

I'm encountering a slight ... let's say "glitch": Immediately when loading _any_ savegame or creating a new char I'm teleported to a place in the wilds near "Forsworn Watch Outpost", Katalia is standing right next to me. If I speak to her, she's like "We're in prison! You are a Nord bitch, I should kill you!" and I have numerous quests open in my journal "New Shaman Initiation: First Trials" and "[...] Last Trials" (something like that). The Nord-thing she's on about is true, but the prison-thing? I'm not sure.^^

 

I don't know - is it supposed to be like that? Am I doing something wrong (in other words: Am I an idiot [well - i know i am, so, no, you don't need to tell me ]?) All mod requirements/dependencies are met, I already tried disabling almost anything else with no luck so far.

 

Mod version used: AFS1.48

[mybrainhurts]

I'm encountering a slight ... let's say "glitch": Immediately when loading _any_ savegame or creating a new char I'm teleported to a place in the wilds near "Forsworn Watch Outpost", Katalia is standing right next to me. If I speak to her, she's like "We're in prison! You are a Nord bitch, I should kill you!" and I have numerous quests open in my journal "New Shaman Initiation: First Trials" and "[...] Last Trials" (something like that). The Nord-thing she's on about is true, but the prison-thing? I'm not sure.^^

 

I don't know - is it supposed to be like that? Am I doing something wrong (in other words: Am I an idiot [well - i know i am, so, no, you don't need to tell me ]?) All mod requirements/dependencies are met, I already tried disabling almost anything else with no luck so far.

 

Mod version used: AFS1.48

 

Same here, and virtually none of the dialogue is working. I even tried generating a new seq file...

[Fredone]

Hi, and thanks for that mod.

The CDT near Whiterun doesn't happen anymore in the last version AFS1.48.

Whereas, I've another problem. In fact, whichever save I use(even one that I'm sure the mod wasn't installed, because it's one from 2 years ago), I'm directely teleported near the camp we met the fornsworn, near the stone that bring you to the other world.

Katalia is near me, and if I speak to her, i've  got  the dialog that she certainly would say to me when we are traped together in jail.

Moreover, I've got 3 quests that ask me to speak to different people(some shaman I think). As I was in my way to speak to one of them, I was stuck near a wolf, somme forsworn approched but nothing happened

In fact, I'd like to play the mod since the begining, but I can't, and even if I want to continue I can't either.

 

PS: sorry for my bad english, I'm not native english speaker.

[aqqh]

That teleport seems to be from AFS1FollowKatalia quest which fires up way too early - you got broken conditionals there.

 

and there is more of them

 

all these quests got started upon first loading of your mod.

Basically the way your mod works you can get rid of "start game enabled" from all your quests and start them manually by script commands. Like when you have last phase of AFS1Begin then you attach line

quest property .Start() or .Setstage(xx)

And you dont need to worry anymore about quests starting too early or too late.

Additional bonus - if you dont use auto start at all you dont need SEQ at all - because SEQ is needed only for "start game enabled" quests.

 

Hell if i understand this fashion of using "start game enabled" everywhere. I start all my quests "manually" and its way easier...

 

 

AFS1Begin

- broken conditional for AFS1BeginKataliaEndView branch dialogue

- i think you got a script missing at the end of AFS1BeginKat1 scene - or i failed to find what is supposed to advance stage to 165

[Delzaron]

That teleport seems to be from AFS1FollowKatalia quest which fires up way too early - you got broken conditionals there.

 

and there is more of them

2015-02-23_00001.jpg

all these quests got started upon first loading of your mod.

Basically the way your mod works you can get rid of "start game enabled" from all your quests and start them manually by script commands. Like when you have last phase of AFS1Begin then you attach line

quest property .Start() or .Setstage(xx)

And you dont need to worry anymore about quests starting too early or too late.

Additional bonus - if you dont use auto start at all you dont need SEQ at all - because SEQ is needed only for "start game enabled" quests.

 

Hell if i understand this fashion of using "start game enabled" everywhere. I start all my quests "manually" and its way easier...

 

 

AFS1Begin

- broken conditional for AFS1BeginKataliaEndView branch dialogue

- i think you got a script missing at the end of AFS1BeginKat1 scene - or i failed to find what is supposed to advance stage to 165

- New shaman initiation 1 et 2 : fixed. It was a lack of conditionnals.

- AFS1Begin : broken conditionnal and missed setstage fixed (it was the scene).

 

I will made a release when i will finish Phage lesson.

 

[janoorn]

hey

wanted to try this mod, but Zenoby had no dialogue even after i saved, went to main menu and reloaded the save.

 

then i tried advancing the quest via console, to the point where i had to walk to the camp and talk to someone else, but they did not have any dialogue options either except katalia the prison dialogue.

also when i sqv'ed the quest, the stage was at 80 in the beginning

 

and when i load a save i am instantly teleportet somewhere close to the forsworn camps and katalia is next to me with the prison dialogue

 

e: sorry just saw that some already reportet it, so ignore please

[zakumkung]

I have a problem. It started when I enter the cell with katalia I talked to her and nothing happened what should I do?  (sorry for any grammar mistake, I'm not good at English)

Edited February 23, 2015 by zakumkung

[aqqh]

conditionals of that dialogue are a little messed up. if you got CK fix them yourself or setstage to 160 / 165.

or wait for new version