Manax Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I agree with the idea of merchandise to fund your endeavor. There are so many places where you can create branded merchandise, not just shirts, and make a profit from it. You never have to stock the stuff just sell it. You can even turn users onto contests to create designs. I have been down this road a few times and could help if you want help with some suggestions but I suspect you (Ashal) got it handled. Let me know.
Manax Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Also, ever thought of crowd funding your site? I mean an annual fundraiser would garner some real $$ and no one would blame you for wanting us to fund this. I know how expensive it can be.
Lifty Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Care to expand on why? Is it because you deserve everything for free thanks to your own numerous contributions? At first I thought your way of saying things was your own kind of crude humor, and I always like people promoting such humor. But you seem serious. And I don't like that tone. Work on it please, we are having a mature conversation. I am actually just getting started with modding and I hope I will be able to release my content in a fashion that suits this site's standards. Only I got a toaster for a PC, which makes CK load forever, keeping me from using it since it's kind of frustrating to wait for 5 minutes each time. And even if I weren't productive in the least bit, I still have the right to use all of this site's content, whether you like it or not. I did my part in disabling AdBlock on this site, because I think the Administration really deserves the money, unlike f.e. Nexus, which I always block. Which brings me to the point - differing ourselves from Nexus. Guys who run that site have some reeal weird viewpoints, ban-happy mods and an overall nigh-hostile approach to their users (going as far as to consider banning people who use AdBlock). In my opinion we should in no way orientate towards Nexus. Many users here are banned there for no reason. And even if it is a good idea to adopt some of their policies, it would still strike discomfort into many users. Up until now, this site has a unique, friendly atmosphere to it, at least that's the way I see it. I would be extra-careful not to break it, know what I mean? And turning LL into a semi-paysite is probably against what Ashal intended to create as a project. Now I don't know how well this site is doing financially, but the way I understood it, the revenue from ads+donations covers up the costs. But that doesn't even matter as much. If you are going to run a server with monthly upkeep, you cannot rely on anyone helping you out, except maybe members of the staff/team. Why even launch a project when you know exactly you cannot afford it? Makes no sense to me. Damn. Lost in detail. A bit. ._. Sorry, but at least you now have a thorough answer I hope.
Yami X Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Gonna disable adblock out of respect for the site. lol @ paying for mods If I wanted to get ripped off I'll go find the guy that was trying to charge for sexlab. Of course this might be done with good intentions both those usually pave the road to hell in this case becoming nexus 2.0
prideslayer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Care to expand on why? Is it because you deserve everything for free thanks to your own numerous contributions? At first I thought your way of saying things was your own kind of crude humor, and I always like people promoting such humor. But you seem serious. And I don't like that tone. Work on it please, we are having a mature conversation. Yes, I was serious. "Just no" was hardly a mature response. It struck me as the worst kind of disrespectful off the cuff rejection of an idea on general unreasoned principles, which I'm entirely tired of seeing around here and elsewhere. So thanks for clarifying. I am actually just getting started with modding and I hope I will be able to release my content in a fashion that suits this site's standards. Only I got a toaster for a PC, which makes CK load forever, keeping me from using it since it's kind of frustrating to wait for 5 minutes each time. You do not have to quit the CK between saves and testing. You will probably want to quit your mod manager though. And even if I weren't productive in the least bit, I still have the right to use all of this site's content, whether you like it or not. You have no such "right". You have the privilege to use content granted to you by Ashal and the content creators. Any one of them can revoke that privilege at any time. That said, what's your point? Nobody said you aren't allowed to use the site or the content posted on it. going as far as to consider banning people who use AdBlock. If this were my site, and I were dependent on ads to keep the lights on, I also would restrict (but not outright ban) anyone using a blocker if I could detect it. It's just disrespectful. Someone has to pay the bills, and if you won't pay cash to help keep the site up, the least you can do is let some images load. In my opinion we should in no way orientate towards Nexus. Many users here are banned there for no reason. And even if it is a good idea to adopt some of their policies, it would still strike discomfort into many users. Up until now, this site has a unique, friendly atmosphere to it, at least that's the way I see it. I would be extra-careful not to break it, know what I mean? The problems with nexus are shared equally between the administrators there, and the community. Combining power-hungry moderators with entitlement-minded ungrateful users and prima donna modders is a recipe for disaster, and that stew has been cooking for a long time. Part of keeping this site "the way it is" is crushing those attitudes whenever they poke their heads out of the ground just a little bit, and your blithe two-word post just stunk of that kind of attitude. I will not lie. Part of the reason I took a several month break from working on sexout etc. was because I grew tired of the demanding entitled attitude that so many non-modding "nexus converts" bring with them. And turning LL into a semi-paysite is probably against what Ashal intended to create as a project. Now I don't know how well this site is doing financially, but the way I understood it, the revenue from ads+donations covers up the costs. Do you mean the way you assumed it to be? The advertising revenue does not even come close to paying for the costs, he's said several times, and he recently lost his job to boot. Yet he keeps the site going, out of his own pocket, without ever asking for a dollar from anyone. I think it's time that changed. But that doesn't even matter as much. If you are going to run a server with monthly upkeep, you cannot rely on anyone helping you out, except maybe members of the staff/team. Why even launch a project when you know exactly you cannot afford it? Makes no sense to me. This particular section is so ignorant I can't even really digest it, and can barely reply civilly. When you run a private site, as this is, you're welcome to charge as much or as little for the services it provides as you like. You seem to imply that he, nor anybody, has a right to charge for access if they so desire. You're entirely wrong. Which would you rather have? The site soldiers on, charging for some levels of access, or it folds up shop because charging is "just wrong?" It sounds like the latter, which is absurd.
gregathit Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 All the love is just making me warm and fuzzy. Now if we can just figure out how to best transfer all of this into action, we can find a way to keep this site up a running indefinitely.
prideslayer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Everyone has a friend who refuses to get upset at other people no matter how much they abuse or disrespect him. That friend usually has a friend who gets enraged on his behalf. That's me.
Yami X Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 The only thing I'm not liking about the ads is the fact I now have a continuous boner woe is me.
Lifty Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Well Pride - It was never intented to be rude when I said "Just no".I simply wanted to leave a semi-serious, blunt comment for people to laugh at and maybe agree to at the same time. Adding a smiley to clarify the joke would have ruined it. Sorry if it's gotten to you.Anyways, I did not know Ashal's having such problems ATM and I feel bad because I said it's his business to keep the server up. While what I said is true, it does not apply of course when someone loses their job or experiences other, serious financial problems. I know exactly what his situation must feel like, had almost the same problem about half a year ago. |:So don't call me ignorant, I simply didn't know. I asked you to be polite.Also, I see the use of services provided here more like a granted right to everyone respecting the rules. Not as a privilege, that sounds as if everyone knelt in awe or something. I would agree to some of your points as temporary solution just so this project doesn't die. I would gladly help, but I am a poor sod myself.I hosted projects myself in the past and I never asked for anything. To me it just doesn't seem right to ask for something if you do it for fun. Besides, even the people who could pay, will not pay. Cheap to the last. Unless of course they want to buy the whole thing off of you. Then everyone suddenly has the money. As if they were better at hosting your project. But I would still try to collect donations & support first. Maybe having a kickstarter/patreon banner showing up @ the main area could to the trick.I think we have enough people on here to make something like this work. Now the problem is that maybe 50% of users on LL are just lurkers who don't read discussions at all and need to be shown a bit more drastic than by a mere forum post. Else they will probably just not notice.
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 I used to make leather bondage gear and could be convinced would submit to do so again. Fixed that fer ya. I do think selling LoversLab logo is a great idea = Tees, coffee cups, keyrings, or those little plastic style bracelets or ankle bracelets, and everyone loves hoodies! Ball caps with some funny stuff and the LL emblem. MOUSE PADS with the logo! And that kind of thing can be superimposed by computer onto cups/mousepads/etc really cheaply - but there is still the initial cost of the inventory to put that logo on, which the site can't afford from what I'm understanding of the dialogue so far. I'm in agreement with PTruble - offer the memberships, have a page set up with a breakdown of available memberships, links to Paypal, etc - but also having annual fundraisers to defray the cost is a great idea! I was thinking if there was a way to do it - if the URL for the adult mods was separate from the Non-Adult mod URL; the Adult side could run as many porn ads as they wanted to, but the general/Non-Adult side would have nothing keeping it from using a much better class of advertising - and from what I read here yesterday, the non-adult advertising pays a much higher rate to the site than these porn ads do. That simple division should double or triple the advertising income for this site just by bringing in the higher paying advertisers; and as long as they weren't obnoxious pop-ups that block you from seeing the page unless you click it closed (like the ads on there right now did to me the day I posted that OP) - I most def wouldn't block those type ads in support of this site.. That said, I'm still against that advertising being attached to the site, but at least that would limit the exposure and get it off the non-adult mods. A person going to that side would then expect or be warned of the change, and maybe a "you must be 18 + to proceed beyond this point" warning.
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Before this gets out of hand, I'd like to chime in. I think any and all mod content should remain free. D/L speed, rate, volume is all a matter of debate, but I wouldn't be in favor of gated content either. This would potentially do way more harm, than it would do any good in terms of revenue and if we look at all the mod sites that went this way, we can see that they either don't exist anymore, or worse, are only shallow husks of their former selves. But I still like the idea of having forum specific benefits, like private members-only forums, more pms, badges, t-shirts, etc. You should want to pay because you want to be part of the community, not because it's the only way to get the newest mods. Edit: This is of course my own opinion. I agree with this, and I believe this community will pull together to keep this site intact. Offering paid memberships has to be much better than requiring them. I think if they are reasonable, they will sell. I was more than willing to pay at Nexus, Chorrol (if they would allow paid memberships), and have been tunneling money to the side to contribute to TESA. None of these sites demanded it, but loyal community members have a going concern for their sites and are more than willing to help them if they can afford it. Someone mentioned offering perks for members who contribute - YES! Nexus does this, and it really is a draw. The badge/title is one, but any lifetime premium member also has access to a much faster downloader that can handle multiple downloads at the same time - I did not take that into consideration when I purchased the membership, but it has been a huge boon; and well worth at least what their membership fee is. TESA offers larger photo gallery space and some other perks for contributions of various sizes, too - Perks are always good.
DoctaSax Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 But think about this too - if the URL for the adult mods was separate from the Non-Adult mod URL; the Adult side could run as many porn ads as they wanted to, but the general/Non-Adult side would have nothing keeping it from using a much better class of advertising - and from what I read here yesterday, the non-adult advertising pays a much higher rate to the site than these porn ads do. That would double or triple the advertising income for this site. I'm not sure how much the difference is but it's probably enough to consider such a move. There's a lot of content here that would be acceptable on a site like Nexus, and it also happens to often concern the larger download packages like races and armor. If possible, shifting that to a sister site with better paying ads and reliable donation systems would probably make a substantial difference in the long term. As it is, even if we set up supporter/premium membership (perks: cool, titles: meh), we'd still not be able to have people just paypal that money in. I think it's a more decisive move than relying on trickles from merchandising etc (although not unwelcome, it's bound to be inconsistent). Takes some time to set up though.
RitualClarity Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I have absolutely zero interest in wearing a "LoversLab T-Shirt" in public, unless it's REALLY subtle. And I can't imagine such a shirt being wildly popular by any means. I also have absolutely zero idea what any sort of t-shirt would look like, but If somebody good at designing shirts wants to come up with one and send it to me, setting up a t-shirt sale is incredibly simple these days and a decent way to directly benefit both the creator and provide something worthwhile to the user. A simple logo.. Could be small over a pocket something about two or three inches long. My idea was more fun play with words. However a very simple elegant black tee shirt with a blue lovers lab logo just like the one for this site. would be all that would be needed. The proceeds of the sales would be able to go to fund this site. Even if someone never actually wore the shirt except around the house or whatever it wouldn't matter. It would be a way to legitimately fund this site.
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 The betas was just an example. If there are any paid-members-only discussion areas(*) and the attachment system doesn't change, anything *could* be attached to threads there. Personally I'd experiment with putting betas there or maybe even releases for the first week or two that they're out just to see how it went. I'd also give preferential treatment to tech support issues posted in a paid tech support area, over the free one, for example. (*)This itself is really the idea. Some of the off-topic/general forums could be moved here, as well as a section where politics/religion/whatever can be discussed by the "more mature" folks not willing to risk their paid subscription by being complete assbags. Ooh, so if anyone wants to download the mod in its Beta state they would have the incentive to purchase a membership - that is a good idea. Like the person who posted right before this post I've quoted, I misunderstood what you had said before, thought you were advocating a mandatory paid membership for beta mods. I apologize for misunderstanding.
ToxicKetchup Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 The only thing I'm not liking about the ads is the fact I now have a continuous boner woe is me. Just stroke it until it goes away. At least you'll have a little "buffer time" until the next one, lol.
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 All the love is just making me warm and fuzzy. Now if we can just figure out how to best transfer all of this into action, we can find a way to keep this site up a running indefinitely. THIS! I would hate to see this site change what it is and has been the many years I've been coming here; even before becoming a member. But if this is our community, it behooves us to take care of it so it will always be here for us - from our hearts, not from changing of regulations. As I said earlier, (minus the ads) I am more than willing to contribute a reasonable amount to ensure this site stays just as it has always been - from what I've seen, 95% of us are willing to help to keep this site from changing from what it is, what it has always been. My only upset here is with the ads - period; but from what I read on page one of this thread - the site can't garner any other type advertising due to the adult nature of the mods (Which is really ridiculous unless all those other products go out of their way to form a reputation of being family oriented or religious). As someone above pointed out, there would be no reason to block that type ad; they would probably garner the same if not more revenue by advertising here; we are gamers, not drooling pervs. My issue is, that even if I pay membership and have the great option of no ads; my name is there on the page to be seen surrounded by those ads for anyone that knows my profile name and doesn't have an ad blocker. That affects/effects my reputation, and that I don't like. That effects my livelihood if a prospective employer sees it; and it affects my children (and may have affected my mother, rest her soul) who may Google search me by my profile name and come to this page and see those ads - and wonder what kind of a site I'm on. There is a line crossed here by that type of advertising, that takes these wonderfully gifted modders and clumps them (and the members here) into the category of smut; and I don't like being clumped there. These mods are genius creativity without barriers; they are art. They are not smut. They are entertainment, avatars of ideas that were brought to life in anims by someone with the sheer genius/skill level/and perseverance to create them for us all to enjoy. I love mods that add basic needs to our characters; whether it be the need for food, sleep, water, relieving himself, or sex - that is real life, that is immersion. But in a magic land you can expand on those needs to really suit the setting they are in - like the mod for basic needs that made the pee a poison you could use against your enemies. Taking out your enemies by whizzing on them - whoever made that mod deserves some kind of trophy, that was hysterical! "Bye bye, Lydia!" That mod is more fun than a barrel of monkeys; that is genius, not smut. Basic Instincts in Oblivion was another - in a magic place of course there is going to be pranksters spellcasting your clothes off, that is a given! (especially with Sanguine and Dibella worshippers around) - Even Bethesda realized that and added it! Then one prankster takes that joke one step further, lol. Claudia, etc. These mods are a blast to play; they were so obviously made to be fun - these modders have made a point/statement with these mods; because in real life people do pee/masturbate/have sex/etc There is nothing wrong with showing it in a game mod; it shouldn't be taken as if the modder was a drooling perv - but that is what those ads have labeled them as - and label everyone downloading those mods as. I don't like that at all. If there was a way to draw ourselves independent of that type ad, I would appreciate it - but not by upsetting the balance of this site by making new rules/regulations. Like someone above said, that would change everything about this site that makes it such an awesome place. None of us want that. I'm in no way advocating a "PG-13" feel to this site, just a better class of ad.
ratrace Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 The only thing I find annoying about the ads is that they often distract me from what I planned on doing here. But then again, that's very inspiring.
~magic~ Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Paywalling is a bad idea. Paywalling mods is detrimental to the members - it feels like punishing the average user for the site not having enough money. It would simply encourage piracy and never-ending complaints against the site for becoming greedy. Even if it did happen to bring in more revenue, the stress from having to deal with the piracy and complaints would outweigh any extra money made, and people would be begging you to bring back the porn ads and get rid of the paywall. T-shirts and LoversLab paraphernalia are a bad idea. Only a select few users on this site, not including myself, would be willing to buy let alone wear a LoversLab t-shirt in public.Supporting an adult site anonymously is much safer than supporting it publicly - it requires an open-minded buyer in an open-minded community with open-minded friends and family, which rules out almost everyone. I can think of some local evangelicals who would literally attack me after looking up the site.With only a select few members buying the shirts, the profit from such an endeavor would be miniscule at best. Website rewards for donators (minimum of $10, e.g), such as a donator forum section, donator-exclusive giveaways, and donator tag on the names, are a good idea. It would reward people for donating to the site without any detriment whatsoever to normal members. Anyone who wants to whine about some people having a donator tag can fill out a go fuck yourself form and deposit it in the snake-infested complaints box at their earliest convenience. Some ideas: -Provide a homepage with featured mods, rather than linking directly to the forums. That is a turn-off for many users. -Have a "Donate to keep this site running" button somewhere on the header or footer on every page. They're not great, but they're relatively harmless. My only upset here is with the ads - period; but from what I read on page one of this thread - the site can't garner any other type advertising due to the adult nature of the mods (Which is really ridiculous unless all those other products go out of their way to form a reputation of being family oriented or religious). Advertising agencies are the some of the most uptight conservative businesses on the face of the planet. Advertising depends on psychology, and most advertisements are sexual in nature, whether blatant (e.g porn ads) or subliminal (car ads, detergent ads, etc.) The model behind most of the advertising agencies on the planet is designed by the most uptight conservatives imaginable, which is why advertisements on the internet and television tend to be extraordinarily sexist towards both men and women. They will absolutely refuse to advertise to anything that even remotely suggests the idea that there is possibly an implied hint towards sexuality in any way, but violence and dismemberment is perfectly fine. Because if your impressionable kid is going to see something and act upon it, they'd rather have the kid play Grand Theft Auto 5 and go on a killing spree than see sex and *gasp* lose their virginity. This even extends to ultra-liberal companies like Google, who have to work with other advertisers that prevent AdSense from being allowed on adult websites.
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 I have absolutely zero interest in wearing a "LoversLab T-Shirt" in public, unless it's REALLY subtle. And I can't imagine such a shirt being wildly popular by any means. I also have absolutely zero idea what any sort of t-shirt would look like, but If somebody good at designing shirts wants to come up with one and send it to me, setting up a t-shirt sale is incredibly simple these days and a decent way to directly benefit both the creator and provide something worthwhile to the user. A simple logo.. Could be small over a pocket something about two or three inches long. My idea was more fun play with words. However a very simple elegant black tee shirt with a blue lovers lab logo just like the one for this site. would be all that would be needed. The proceeds of the sales would be able to go to fund this site. Even if someone never actually wore the shirt except around the house or whatever it wouldn't matter. It would be a way to legitimately fund this site. Capture1.PNG Capture.PNG Capture3.PNG These are great - I'll take two white and one black! (And a mousepad!)
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Advertising agencies are the some of the most uptight conservative businesses on the face of the planet. Advertising depends on psychology, and most advertisements are sexual in nature, whether blatant (e.g porn ads) or subliminal (car ads, detergent ads, etc.) The model behind most of the advertising agencies on the planet is designed by the most uptight conservatives imaginable, which is why advertisements on the internet and television tend to be extraordinarily sexist towards both men and women. They will absolutely refuse to advertise to anything that even remotely suggests the idea that there is possibly an implied hint towards sexuality in any way, but violence and dismemberment is perfectly fine. Because if your impressionable kid is going to see something and act upon it, they'd rather have the kid play Grand Theft Auto 5 and go on a killing spree than see sex and *gasp* lose their virginity. This even extends to ultra-liberal companies like Google, who have to work with other advertisers that prevent AdSense from being allowed on adult websites. I've seen this, the ads do all they can to imply sexuality for an inanimate like a watch or pair of jeans; then suddenly flip and don't want any connection if the product does the same thing as their advertising. It is hypocrisy at its worst. But art has always been subjective, and pushing the boundaries. I would like to find a way where we can function comfortably as we always have here, but without that kind of advertising. Be independent if that is what it takes. That said, of course no advertising will place itself beside those ads, regardless the content of our site. If we don't take a stand for the tone of these mods to stay in the realm of art rather than smut, then no one else will. People coming to this site and seeing those ads WILL form an impression about this place and the type of people on it that has nothing to do with the members or content of the mods; but based completely on seeing those ads the second the page opens. Right or wrong, that is what happens. It is exactly how I felt the second I opened the page and saw the ads for the first time; and I'd been coming here for years and loved this site. It felt to me like you'd let this site go downhill (as I said in the OP). I'd say there are a lot of TES players who would love playing those mods and may be more than willing to have a membership and help support a site who hosts them; but will not align themselves with a site that displays that kind of advertising - me, for one. Had I known about the ads I would not have registered. There is proof that many more people think that way - go to Nexus and look at the Oblivion Sexlivion download count. It is one of the most downloaded mods on Nexus. Those ads probably scare off more revenue than they gain the site. I believe the small revenue realized from those ads (based on what an admin said on page one of this thread) could not possibly match what members might contribute if they weren't offput from joining this site due to those ads. If we take that type of advertising away then I believe we will draw more members who may be staying away for the same reason I would have if I'd seen those ads - not wanting the association with what this site appears to be by those ads - those ads are putting a label on us.
prideslayer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Ooh, so if anyone wants to download the mod in its Beta state they would have the incentive to purchase a membership - that is a good idea. Like the person who posted right before this post I've quoted, I misunderstood what you had said before, thought you were advocating a mandatory paid membership for beta mods. I apologize for misunderstanding. Again it was just an example. The real "idea" is a forum area accessible only to paid members. That area will of course allow attachments to post, as all of the areas do. If another paid member wants to attach something there rather than in the "free" area, to encourage signups, they are welcome to do so. Betas are one thing that I would experiment with putting there, personally. Others may continue to put theirs in the "open" area. Up to them. Paywalling is a bad idea. T-shirts and LoversLab paraphernalia are a bad idea. Your reasoning on both these points is supposition. Fact is, won't know if it's as bad as you think until it's tried. Other sites get along perfectly fine with a subscription based model, and while there are some vocal complainers, they are a small minority and usually leave quickly when nobody tolerates their complaints. These are sites that don't have the bandwidth issues LL does, and are JUST discussion forums, not offering any other services (except those you pay for, like members only areas, hosted email, etc). Some ideas: -Provide a homepage with featured mods, rather than linking directly to the forums. That is a turn-off for many users. -Have a "Donate to keep this site running" button somewhere on the header or footer on every page. They're not great, but they're relatively harmless. They also in the case of #1 do nothing to help bring in money, and bringing in more users really only makes the problem worse right now. A brand new user who sees these downloads and then wanders in to grab 10GB of data while seeing 4-5 ads is just increasing costs. #2 has proven impractical. There are few, if any, reputable systems that will allow donations for a site like this. The "big names" won't do business with LL, and the ones that will all "smell funny." Even Offbeatr is likely out of the question as they do not allow "real or simulated ... rape, violence ... bestiality" I feel bad because I said it's his business to keep the server up. While what I said is true, it does not apply of course when someone loses their job or experiences other, serious financial problems. I wouldn't feel bad about that, because you're right. It's your responsibility even if you do run into financial problems. However, one of the ways you can meet that "responsibility" is by charging for your service. You seem to think that's not within his (or anyones) rights, that he must fund it completely from advertising and/or out of pocket, which is nonsense. Charging users for a service is perfectly legitimate. So don't call me ignorant, I simply didn't know. I asked you to be polite. What do you think the word "ignorant" means exactly? Also, I see the use of services provided here more like a granted right to everyone respecting the rules. Not as a privilege, that sounds as if everyone knelt in awe or something. How you see it is irrelevant. The server is private property, and the content here is created by users with whatever license they wish. How it "sounds" to you doesn't really affect the meaning of the words. On any privately owned and operated system, you have no rights at all, and this is such as system. I hosted projects myself in the past and I never asked for anything. To me it just doesn't seem right to ask for something if you do it for fun. This sort of approach makes no sense to me. You're saying you should only do a job you hate, because if you do one that's fun it's not right to get paid? Well I'm not quitting my job any time soon. But I would still try to collect donations & support first. Maybe having a kickstarter/patreon banner showing up @ the main area could to the trick. Have you read this thread from the start? All suggested, discussed. I will remain 100% in favor of paid membership perks, including the ability for me as a paying member to upload files to an area only available to other paying members. Not having that ability does not mean the idea won't work, but for guaranteed revenue to help offset server costs, nobody has suggested anything better.
prideslayer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Just to put things somewhat in perspective, and help explain why I'm so goddamn fired up about this, let me re-share something Ashal posted in September. Take a good look at this an think about it, then rethink your positions. This is just overages for one month.
prideslayer Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Well again, that's just the overage. I can't remember how much he pays for each month before he hits the limit.
mALX Posted February 16, 2015 Author Posted February 16, 2015 Ooh, so if anyone wants to download the mod in its Beta state they would have the incentive to purchase a membership - that is a good idea. Like the person who posted right before this post I've quoted, I misunderstood what you had said before, thought you were advocating a mandatory paid membership for beta mods. I apologize for misunderstanding. Again it was just an example. The real "idea" is a forum area accessible only to paid members. That area will of course allow attachments to post, as all of the areas do. If another paid member wants to attach something there rather than in the "free" area, to encourage signups, they are welcome to do so. Betas are one thing that I would experiment with putting there, personally. Some ideas: -Provide a homepage with featured mods, rather than linking directly to the forums. That is a turn-off for many users. -Have a "Donate to keep this site running" button somewhere on the header or footer on every page. They're not great, but they're relatively harmless. They also in the case of #1 do nothing to help bring in money, and bringing in more users really only makes the problem worse right now. A brand new user who sees these downloads and then wanders in to grab 10GB of data while seeing 4-5 ads is just increasing costs. #2 has proven impractical. There are few, if any, reputable systems that will allow donations for a site like this. The "big names" won't do business with LL, and the ones that will all "smell funny." Even Offbeatr is likely out of the question as they do not allow "real or simulated ... rape, violence ... bestiality" I still think the beta idea is good. I personally have paid more to get games (etc) pre-release - Legend of Zelda, Skyrim, The Rolling Stones "Shine a Light" - I got perks for the pre-order, extra gear a person who bought off the shelves would not get in their game or order. That pre-release money helps the company fund the release itself. Of course, we don't and can't charge for these mods; but the idea of this being a "private club" setup is a lot more appealing to me than the idea that we have to sink ourselves to this type of advertising to fund it. How many clubs do you join that don't charge a membership fee or have dues? And yes, there are many who wouldn't want to pay or might not be able to afford to pay to be a member of a private club; so this is just my voice and opinions - just throwing it out there * I agree with that next quote you posted too, (although you did not) - the bandwidth has got to be the major cost of the site because other sites who don't host uploads/downloads can well afford the cost of the server without any advertising. So having this place to host your art is an incredible find then, as many of you have pointed out that no where else would allow you to upload these types of mods. That means that the members who download your mods can also not find them anywhere else. If the site is struggling financially, it behooves the modders hosting here and those that want to play those mods to pony up and help keep this haven afloat. True, no one can or should charge for a mod, but those uploading could purchase a membership since the bandwidth is the real dragon cost-wise; and in lieu of charging for a mod (since that's illegal), a downloader's page could also offer the opportunity for the downloader to purchase or upgrade a membership for a modder whose mods have brought them enjoyment. (another Nexus idea, but a good one). If Stroti hadn't already been a lifetime premium member of Nexus (already when he started modding again recently) I'd most def have purchased a lifetime premium membership for him. That way the money goes to keeping the site afloat and is not paying for mods. The modder's have the reward of their mods having a place where they can be hosted and appreciated. * The last quote - I don't even begin to understand or know about these things, but if I'm getting what you said correctly, then I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to get into the business of hosting a site offering a haven to download mods, then complain it costs too much if any new members join and want to download those mods. That is why this site is here/was created, isn't it? So saying new members cost too much and must be avoided - I have a hard time understanding that. New members bring new opportunities for contributions; and I doubt this site's financial issues came about due to new members downloading; but probably by waiting way too long to restrict downloading to members only; and by then those ads were scaring off people (who might have joined and contributed) from becoming members. LL now HAS to rely on those ads to break even because there are not enough new members to take up the slack from this community. This community is tightly knit and dedicated to the site; but they can only contribute so much per each. A larger membership would make the contribution needs a drop in the bucket per each, but you'll never draw them with those ads displaying prominently. Most people (gamers or not) do not care to be associated with porn sites, and those ads make this site look no different than one. I am probably misunderstanding what you've said again, and if I have please forgive me. It just seemed to me that your interest includes the advertiser's revenue from posting these ads (as per your previous post where you detailed how much more they spend in hopes we'll click on their ads than they actually realize from them). To be honest, I don't care if they profit or not; that is not my concern. I'm sure if they were suffering that big a loss they would find some other way to advertise, and they haven't (so I have no doubt they make plenty). Porn is a multi-trillion dollar industry, it won't go broke in any of our lifetimes. My only concern is us, this site and these modders having this haven to come to (1); and that (2) hopefully we can find a way to achieve that without these lowering ads dragging us into the realm of smut and porn. I'd rather this be a private club funded by members and not rely on advertisers , but if it is that expensive then it takes more than a handful of members pulling together to achieve that. I can understand why PayPal won't allow their logo on a page with those ads, but they do have their logo on Nexus (who also hosts adult mods). So I have a hard time believing it is all due to the content of the mods. Going with someone other than Paypal, especially if they are not known by reputation - not good at all. I don't see too many people voluntarily handing over their banking and credit card info to some unknown or disreputable service. They will have to find a way to garner that business relationship with Paypal somehow; even if it is just a personal account on different web page and a link from this site to access it by anyone wanting to make donations. First the ads; then dealing with iffy pay options - going down the wrong slopes to achieve what you want. In my opinion, the only way to get on top again has to be to dump that porn advertising that is killing this site's ability to get back on its feet. It is a vicious cycle that will pull you down to its level; and can't possibly be worth the small revenue that was listed on page one of this thread. That is just my opinion.
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