"Feminist" nightmare

windpl · November 3, 2014

Ahem:

How is the gender pay gap measured?

At EU level, the gender pay gap is defined as the relative difference in the average gross hourly earnings of women and men within the economy as a whole.

In 2012, the EU average is estimated at 16.4 %. This indicator has been defined as unadjusted (e.g. not adjusted according to differences in individual characteristics or other observable characteristics that may explain part of the earnings difference) because it gives an overall picture of gender discrimination and the inequalities in the labour market that explain gender differences in pay.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-gap/situation-europe/index_en.htm

"so i wonder can anyone from europe (not USA because you don't have guaranteed minimum wage as i was heard) or from the rest of the world can show me a law which guarantee to males 30% bigger wage per hour"

This here is a strawman.... It is not a situation enshrined in law, it is a situation OUTSIDE the margins of the law, why a law SECURING equal pay is needed.

Also, the gender gap studies focus on the same level jobs. Basically 2 lawyers doing the same job, the woman will earn less. Happens as well between two janitors, 2 teachers etc.

Please, stop.

baronesa · November 3, 2014

Here... The World Economic Forum

Enjoy:

http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-report-2014/

Jayleia · November 3, 2014

so why some cleaning lady don't became miner lady

and please don't tell me she don't have physical predispositions for that

because feminism teach us "female can do everything male can do even better"

Because feminism teaches WHAT? In what universe is that seriously the dominant feminist philosophy? Yes, that phrase is used to encourage people, but its not part of any serious feminism I've ever heard of.

But that's beside the point, I see very few people seriously arguing that there aren't differences in predispositions. I would make a lousy miner, despite having male chromosomes. I've seen quite a few women that would probably make good miners...at least better than me.

There's a number of reasons why people choose the jobs they do, some women who would be fine with more "masculine" professions don't go into them precisely because of how they're treated. But that's entirely beside the point of the pay gap, if you think that the pay gap is about people with completely different jobs getting different pay rates...then you have no idea what you're talking about.

now lets see class 5 clerks elementary school 8y + high school 4y

minimum wage per hour for that class is 5$

bank clerks 99% females no health hazard

warehouse 99% males some of them work with highly flammable and toxic materials and they get 100% for health hazard so 10$/h

reason to not become warehouse clerk instead bank is not physically but purely sociological

or to quote my cousin when she was give quit after two months "i was lonely"

An anecdote is NOT the plural of data.

and for the end 12 class 50$/h

a true story

male and female she is 6 days older went together in elementary school 8y high school 4y and get married and get together on medicine university

6y after that they split she was specialised bioengineering and he orthopedy

she work in research center with health hazard bonus 100% so 100$/h

he work in child hospital without health hazard bonus so he get 50$/h

I'd point out that these are, by definition, different jobs. Additionally, this is an anecdote, still not the plural of data.

so i wonder can anyone from europe (not USA because you don't have guaranteed minimum wage as i was heard) or from the rest of the world can show me a law which guarantee to males 30% bigger wage per hour

because i personally know if i give bigger wage per hour to males only i can be fined by laws of my country up to 5y of profit my business make

an 1-5y in prison

will any normal person risk that

Did ANYONE ever say there was a law that guaranteed higher pay for males? Or a law that guaranteed lower pay for women? Or did you make that bit up?

Oh, I can think of a few ways I could give higher pay to people I favored...more "merit" raises/bonuses, faster promotions, better contract negotiations. This happens all the time (at least it appears to happen), its relatively difficult to prove without access to personnel records, therefore it continues to happen because proving it is time-consuming and you need to go through the court system and/or an arbitrator. So, often people don't seek remedies due to the difficulty of it...even though anyone looking at an individual case can clearly see that one was treated unfairly.

so please make me wrong

because i really want to find country where i wont be obligated to pay females for they work

You don't want to be obligated to pay people for the work they do because of their chromosomes? What the actual fuck?

nonusnomeni · November 3, 2014

Ahem:

How is the gender pay gap measured?

At EU level, the gender pay gap is defined as the relative difference in the average gross hourly earnings of women and men within the economy as a whole.

In 2012, the EU average is estimated at 16.4 %. This indicator has been defined as unadjusted (e.g. not adjusted according to differences in individual characteristics or other observable characteristics that may explain part of the earnings difference) because it gives an overall picture of gender discrimination and the inequalities in the labour market that explain gender differences in pay.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-gap/situation-europe/index_en.htm

"so i wonder can anyone from europe (not USA because you don't have guaranteed minimum wage as i was heard) or from the rest of the world can show me a law which guarantee to males 30% bigger wage per hour"

This here is a strawman.... It is not a situation enshrined in law, it is a situation OUTSIDE the margins of the law, why a law SECURING equal pay is needed.

Also, the gender gap studies focus on the same level jobs. Basically 2 lawyers doing the same job, the woman will earn less. Happens as well between two janitors, 2 teachers etc.

how can that be if they must have same wage per hour

let see

i have some peoples who work for me 20+y

Anna is 43 have 4 children so she was have 4y (our law guarantee 1y of maternity leave) of maternity leave on 70% of her monthly wage in last 6 months before she was take maternity leave

half pay i as her employer half pay state thru the taxes what pay every employed person so again me

plus somebody must fill that working place so i must take another worker on full paycheck for that year

her half-brother Joseph 44y old was on sick days in last 20y 3 months

so who was earn more money in last 20y

they both work on same place same education same qualification same health hazard (0%)

same minimum wage i must pay to them under threat of criminal prosecution

and yet somebody was earn less money in last 20y

so do we see a real reason for that "gender gap"

and don't get me wrong

only ones oppressed in my business are males

80% of my workers are females even if males will cost me less on short term

why because customers males and females much better react being served by female than male

strictly business and i think every businessman thinking same

so yes we can say there is gender gap if we take all life of average male/female worker

but do we look for the reason for that

of course not

windpl · November 3, 2014

And here we go again

nonusnomeni · November 3, 2014

so why some cleaning lady don't became miner lady

and please don't tell me she don't have physical predispositions for that

because feminism teach us "female can do everything male can do even better"

Because feminism teaches WHAT? In what universe is that seriously the dominant feminist philosophy? Yes, that phrase is used to encourage people, but its not part of any serious feminism I've ever heard of.

But that's beside the point, I see very few people seriously arguing that there aren't differences in predispositions. I would make a lousy miner, despite having male chromosomes. I've seen quite a few women that would probably make good miners...at least better than me.

There's a number of reasons why people choose the jobs they do, some women who would be fine with more "masculine" professions don't go into them precisely because of how they're treated. But that's entirely beside the point of the pay gap, if you think that the pay gap is about people with completely different jobs getting different pay rates...then you have no idea what you're talking about.

now lets see class 5 clerks elementary school 8y + high school 4y

minimum wage per hour for that class is 5$

bank clerks 99% females no health hazard

warehouse 99% males some of them work with highly flammable and toxic materials and they get 100% for health hazard so 10$/h

reason to not become warehouse clerk instead bank is not physically but purely sociological

or to quote my cousin when she was give quit after two months "i was lonely"

An anecdote is NOT the plural of data.

http://www.genderequality.ie/en/GE/Pages/WhatisGE

there is plenty of research out there you won't see

and for the end 12 class 50$/h

a true story

male and female she is 6 days older went together in elementary school 8y high school 4y and get married and get together on medicine university

6y after that they split she was specialised bioengineering and he orthopedy

she work in research center with health hazard bonus 100% so 100$/h

he work in child hospital without health hazard bonus so he get 50$/h

I'd point out that these are, by definition, different jobs. Additionally, this is an anecdote, still not the plural of data.

really?!? so real life is just anecdote when don't confirm you agenda

so i wonder can anyone from europe (not USA because you don't have guaranteed minimum wage as i was heard) or from the rest of the world can show me a law which guarantee to males 30% bigger wage per hour

because i personally know if i give bigger wage per hour to males only i can be fined by laws of my country up to 5y of profit my business make

an 1-5y in prison

will any normal person risk that

Did ANYONE ever say there was a law that guaranteed higher pay for males? Or a law that guaranteed lower pay for women? Or did you make that bit up?

Oh, I can think of a few ways I could give higher pay to people I favored...more "merit" raises/bonuses, faster promotions, better contract negotiations. This happens all the time (at least it appears to happen), its relatively difficult to prove without access to personnel records, therefore it continues to happen because proving it is time-consuming and you need to go through the court system and/or an arbitrator. So, often people don't seek remedies due to the difficulty of it...even though anyone looking at an individual case can clearly see that one was treated unfairly.

so please make me wrong

because i really want to find country where i wont be obligated to pay females for they work

You don't want to be obligated to pay people for the work they do because of their chromosomes? What the actual fuck?

ever hear for sarcasm

Jayleia · November 3, 2014

so yes we can say there is gender gap if we take all life of average male/female worker

but do we look for the reason for that

of course not

As far as I know, nobody has found any reason other than their gender, and they actually do have social scientists that study this. Try to find a peer reviewed article that shows a reason other than gender as the explanation.

nonusnomeni · November 3, 2014

no

i am idiot

no explanations

no data

no real live examples

can reason feminist

i was learn that long time ago

and yet i was try to play on reasonable discussion

nope

not anymore

nonusnomeni · November 3, 2014

so yes we can say there is gender gap if we take all life of average male/female worker

but do we look for the reason for that

of course not

As far as I know, nobody has found any reason other than their gender, and they actually do have social scientists that study this. Try to find a peer reviewed article that shows a reason other than gender as the explanation.

how about not be on job all 12775 days :dodgy:

Jayleia · November 3, 2014

so yes we can say there is gender gap if we take all life of average male/female worker

but do we look for the reason for that

of course not

As far as I know, nobody has found any reason other than their gender, and they actually do have social scientists that study this. Try to find a peer reviewed article that shows a reason other than gender as the explanation.

how about not be on job all 12775 days

You realize they have scientists that study things like this? Do you think that, possibly...sometime in the decades of studying the wage gap, someone, somewhere might have said "Hey, maybe we need to control for how many days they work?".

Seriously, I would think the first thing they would control for is to compare similar jobs, second would be similar work histories, including time on the job.

windpl · November 3, 2014

I actually want to see employer that makes females employees wages lower than males. Then I would see how his ass is handled by unions and other god know what institutions.

Oh and If you even one more time mention lawyers or teachers I will laugh straight to your face.

Jayleia · November 3, 2014

no

i am idiot

no explanations

no data

no real live examples

can reason feminist

i was learn that long time ago

and yet i was try to play on reasonable discussion

nope

not anymore

Oh, I'm quite happy with good data, the page you linked about Ireland is interesting, and it does show that Ireland on its own is doing fairly well. It does not, however, seem to help or hinder either of our sides in this debate, its a complete non-sequitur to the debate.

You note that Baronesa uses studies from the World Economic Forum, I've been pointing out how scientists would control a study of wages to discover if there was a wage gap.

And no, I'm not discarding your personal experience, or that you are passing on the experiences of people you know as completely as possible just because it doesn't hold to my view. I'm discounting it, because your cousin and two doctors that you know is not sufficiently representative of the entire workforce.

That doesn't mean I'd demand a survey of everyone in the workforce, just that those two cases you mention are too small of a sample size to be a valid study, nor would those two cases be considered properly controlled for.

*zippy57* · November 3, 2014

And now regarding Christina Hoff Summers [sic], I'll let Mumei do a brief rundown:

Who is this and why are you quoting them as if they hold some sort of authority?

Christina Hoff Sommers is a professional anti-feminist

You'll disprove yourself in a few sentences, but continue.

she is hostile to the espoused concerns of feminism

Again, this will be disproven momentarily. Moving on.

claims that feminists routinely lie

Feminists are humans. Humans routinely lie. The statement is correct. Next?

[says] information offered by feminism is largely false.

This is the first true statement in this quote! Hooray!

her brand of feminism

I myself prefer store brand. Much cheaper to buy in bulk.

feminist only in the nominal sense that they agree that there should be equal rights.

...okay, anyone with a brain should see the issue with this but I'll cover it anyway in a bit.

Power feminism is notable for contributing to the denial of research into the prevalence of rape

That's a rather damning claim. Source?

power feminists felt that rape was being misused to describe ordinary sexual relations, and set about misrepresenting respected research in the field into order to argue that point.

Again, source?

she's not feminist in the sense that most people use the term

All right, here we go. Remember all those claims I said I'd get to? Most importantly, this one?

feminist only in the nominal sense that they agree that there should be equal rights.

Yeah, that. So tell me... What does feminism mean?

the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Ah, yes. So you're saying that she's not a feminist because she wants equal rights?

Sounds like you're incredibly confused, but let's continue to see you dig yourself a deeper hole:

always keep in mind she works for: American Enterprise Institute

Irrelevant. Her employer does not make her position any more or less valid. It is not the source that is important, but the information itself.

Can check her here arguing that THE WAGE GAP does not exist Please tell me how she is so reasonable after that.

Being wrong on one point does not magically make her wrong on another.

Here you have a lovely parting gift:

Check this tweet

Let's begin shall we?

No, let's not. Let's instead address whether or not you are actually so unbelievably stupid that you see ONE person say something like that and immediately say the entire movement is "aligning themselves openly". I hope you're not, because there are no words to describe just how stupid you would be for-

Oh, right. You're doing that.

I'm not going to even entertain the idea

Being closed-minded, good start.

a "movement" praising the same people who dehumanize me