"Feminist" nightmare

[quadruplehelix]

What the fuck is this?

A reasonable feminist!?

 

Nope. Look at what it's uploaded on: American Enterprise Institute (AEI).

 

That's an ultra-conservative American lobby group who represent all viewpoints of the American extreme-right and reactionary politics.

 

Part of the viewpoints of that group is that biblical values of women as inferiors who are restricted to housekeeping and childraising, should be promoted and enforced, so that makes feminists into their natural enemies.

 

She's just a member of the other extreme of the spectrum.

 

To illustrate: that same AEI thinks global warming is a myth.

[Guest Omega1084]

 

What the fuck is this?

A reasonable feminist!?

 

Nope. Look at what it's uploaded on: American Enterprise Institute (AEI).

 

That's an ultra-conservative American lobby group who represent all viewpoints of the American extreme-right and reactionary politics.

 

Part of the viewpoints of that group is that biblical values of women as inferiors who are restricted to housekeeping and childraising, should be promoted and enforced, so that makes feminists into their natural enemies.

 

She's just a member of the other extreme of the spectrum.

 

To illustrate: that same AEI thinks global warming is a myth.

 

That's okay, I didn't actually watch it.

[DMCDante]

Wow, a reasonable feminist, amazing.

 

Another female gamer here. Truthfully. I'm personally not against all the sexy stuff. I see nothing wrong with a badass female warrior who is lingerie clad, but then, honestly. I'm proud of my sexuality and stuff, so I guess I'm one of the few who fails to give a damn. I love a good story, I love good characters, if said well written character again, dresses like she belongs on a stripper pole, I won't care, the fact is, if a character is WELL WRITTEN, then its a case of she can wear whatever the hell she wants. Wants to murder you dressed like a maid? Go for it, just expect surprise! XD.

 

Current Day Feminists can suck on my fucking shoes. Seriously, sometimes they make me hate having boobs because it puts me as the same gender as these raving egomaniacs.

 

Control the Media control the mind, as they always say.

(For the record, My attitude might seem pretty Unladylike, I dun consider myself ladylike in the least bit, plus my picture I posted on that forum was a dog because I was intentionally being obnoxious.)

Finally someone that sees past appearance, bravo. I mean does it matter if your character is sexy or not, as long as it's cool or badass or well written. I just wish more people would think like that and we'd have characters with more diverse appearances.

[nonusnomeni]

another voice of reason     

 

and this is so...

   

[windpl]

 

 

I clicked play and was ready to be enraged. I was surprised when I found out she isn't a stereotypical Tumblr feminist. She's a normal person with common sense.

 

Listening to Tumblr to get an idea of feminism is like going to sodahead to get an idea of conservatives - you'll only scrape off bottom of the barrel.

 

Feminism gets a bad rep because the people speaking out against it judge it based upon the worst of it - like atheists who judge Christianity based on young earth creationists and Christians who judge atheists based on teenage Dawkins wannabes. 

 

 

^ This. Just because there are crazies out there does not mean they do not have a point. And despire the popular belief to the contrary some of the more extreme people do have a point too. Like Sarkeesian, plenty there to disagree with (especially in how she says it) but just look at the exaggerated reaction she gets or the exaggerated reaction Zoe Quinn got (not to mention the lies, slander and so on).

 

Remember in the not too far past when certain conservative figures wanted to blame video gaming on all violence? Imagine how they would have reacted if the gaming community had responded with death threats? Yeah, its the same thing here. People should just learn to be civil or shut up.

 

Personally I consider myself a feminist too, and I do so simply by the dictionary definition of feminism: Someone who believes in equal rights for women.

 

 

Now I feel bad, because I only believe in human rights.

 

[Someone92]

Another article relevant to the original topic:

 

#GamerGate: The Players and the Played

http://porlawright.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/gamergate-the-players-and-the-played/

 

 

But I spy another trend. I am a gamer, but I am also a researcher in evidence based gender studies. I see this squabble not as about games or journalism but an expression of a wider battle that has been spilling out into popular culture for a few years now. A battle that was surrendered, and whose unintended consequences are now emerging. When Sarkeesian made the front page of the NYT this battle also went mainstream, yet very few people are aware of it. It is the battle for feminism.

 

Radical feminism has already won this battle. It is documented in the denouncement of the woman who launched the second wave, Betty Friedan, as an anti-feminist, by Susan Faludi in Backlash. Many equity feminists dropped “feminist” and took up “egalitarian” instead. The unforeseen consequence of this was a vacuum of authority that allowed radicals to claim the “feminist” brand. Now people who attempt to challenge radical feminism are, like Friedan, labelled anti-feminist, as if “feminist” and “woman” were synonyms. They aren’t.

 

The dictionary definition of “feminist” is in urgent need of revision!

 

Radicalism is the orthodoxy in feminism today.

[nonusnomeni]

Another article relevant to the original topic:

 

#GamerGate: The Players and the Played

http://porlawright.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/gamergate-the-players-and-the-played/

 

 

But I spy another trend. I am a gamer, but I am also a researcher in evidence based gender studies. I see this squabble not as about games or journalism but an expression of a wider battle that has been spilling out into popular culture for a few years now. A battle that was surrendered, and whose unintended consequences are now emerging. When Sarkeesian made the front page of the NYT this battle also went mainstream, yet very few people are aware of it. It is the battle for feminism.

 

Radical feminism has already won this battle. It is documented in the denouncement of the woman who launched the second wave, Betty Friedan, as an anti-feminist, by Susan Faludi in Backlash. Many equity feminists dropped “feminist” and took up “egalitarian” instead. The unforeseen consequence of this was a vacuum of authority that allowed radicals to claim the “feminist” brand. Now people who attempt to challenge radical feminism are, like Friedan, labelled anti-feminist, as if “feminist” and “woman” were synonyms. They aren’t.

 

The dictionary definition of “feminist” is in urgent need of revision!

 

Radicalism is the orthodoxy in feminism today.

 

wonderful

one just must love intelligent educated womens

just must

[joemonco]

 

What the fuck is this?

A reasonable feminist!?

 

Nope. Look at what it's uploaded on: American Enterprise Institute (AEI).

 

That's an ultra-conservative American lobby group who represent all viewpoints of the American extreme-right and reactionary politics.

 

Part of the viewpoints of that group is that biblical values of women as inferiors who are restricted to housekeeping and childraising, should be promoted and enforced, so that makes feminists into their natural enemies.

 

She's just a member of the other extreme of the spectrum.

 

To illustrate: that same AEI thinks global warming is a myth.

 

 

She's a registered Democrat, is pro-choice, and an egalitarian feminist, hardly an uber-conservative teahadist.  Check your bias  .  The rainbow haired narcissists claiming to be feminists hate her because she is fine with women choosing to be stay at home mothers.

[Dweishlal]

Wow, a reasonable feminist, amazing.

 

Another female gamer here. Truthfully. I'm personally not against all the sexy stuff. I see nothing wrong with a badass female warrior who is lingerie clad, but then, honestly. I'm proud of my sexuality and stuff, so I guess I'm one of the few who fails to give a damn. I love a good story, I love good characters, if said well written character again, dresses like she belongs on a stripper pole, I won't care, the fact is, if a character is WELL WRITTEN, then its a case of she can wear whatever the hell she wants. Wants to murder you dressed like a maid? Go for it, just expect surprise! XD.

 

Current Day Feminists can suck on my fucking shoes. Seriously, sometimes they make me hate having boobs because it puts me as the same gender as these raving egomaniacs.

 

Control the Media control the mind, as they always say.

(For the record, My attitude might seem pretty Unladylike, I dun consider myself ladylike in the least bit, plus my picture I posted on that forum was a dog because I was intentionally being obnoxious.)

 

We need more Women like you.

[nonusnomeni]

   

[Grave Sevolillie]

 

griefmyst, on 20 Sept 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:
Spoiler

Yeah I agree. I don't think men should have to "lose" anything from their games, just being more inclusive is all that's really needed. They can still have their bikini warriors and other stuff. I'd just like the occasionally deeper and more INTERESTING main female lead characters so I have something fun to play as. That is part of the beauty I found with Skyrim, and I thank my boyfriend for buying it for me. I can make my badass female character and she's all that I wanted in one.

A lot of the PROBLEM I tend to run into with a lot of defensive men in gaming is they seem to think we want to take away all their toys and that we should get out of "their hobby". I've been gaming myself since the early 90s and have seen a lot of what games have built up to. I'm just as much a gamer as they are. Maybe not as many females play games but there might be more if they felt they were a little more included.

This could come in the form of as I said, a deeper character, perhaps one that looks like she's there for more than just sexual fantasy. There are a few EXAMPLES of this already that I mentioned in a previous post, so we're getting there. It doesn't need to be in every game either. And I definitely wouldn't want dumbed down games myself, I like challenging games.

It just gets tiresome when I ENTER a lobby on a game and I get cursed out for daring to play men's games. xD Thankfully it doesn't happen that much but... it's just pretty telling I guess.

Thankfully this community here is pretty accepting, which a lot of them are. Just the occassional douche you run into on the vast internet that gives the rest of the nicer TYPES a bad rep

 

Ok I am about open myself up to a world of hurt (or acceptance) but a few years ago i came out as a trans person. The reaction at first was mostly good but a few of my mates couldnt really accept it. To them I will always be the dude who whooped ass in cod, with my spikey hair and love of combat pants. The same dudes have problems with their significant others playing video games that are and I quote not girly enough.I know this post doesnt have much to do with the topic but it just pisse's me off.

[nonusnomeni]

bullseye

[nonusnomeni]

so only feminist get dead threats

[windpl]

lol

 

 

[GrimReaper]

Everyone gets death threats. Just play a popular multiplayer game like League of Legends, Call of Duty or Battlefield and you'll get your fair share of them.

[Dr. Thang]

The difference is, if they know you're a woman, you also get rape threats. Not that men won't get rape threats too, but most of them would be aimed at your mother, or if you're playing a game like COD with an extra high concentration of human scum, your grandmother too.

[nonusnomeni]

The difference is, if they know you're a woman, you also get rape threats. Not that men won't get rape threats too, but most of them would be aimed at your mother, or if you're playing a game like COD with an extra high concentration of human scum, your grandmother too.

what, you never hear somebody threat to "rape your dog"     

[GrimReaper]

The difference is, if they know you're a woman, you also get rape threats. Not that men won't get rape threats too, but most of them would be aimed at your mother, or if you're playing a game like COD with an extra high concentration of human scum, your grandmother too.

 

I'd say the big difference is that when playing a game, nobody knows where you live or what you look like. People said they would kill my family, rape me like the little bitch that I presumably am to give me AIDS, asked me where I live so they could pay me a visit to beat me up or worse and wished me to get a terminal disease so I could die a painful death. It has gotten a lot better at least in LoL now with Riot Games banning those people left and right but it still happens. Anyway.

 

I don't really care about those threats because people don't have any idea about where I live or what I even look like. If you are a person of public interest however, I think those threats can make you feel very uneasy. Most people who make these threats are just looking to vent their anger verbally, it's still a very shitty and pretty toxic behaviour but you won't get harmed outside of that. But lunatics exist, and you will never know for sure if that threat was made by an insecure little prick (should be almost always the case) or by someone who is insane and actually wants to harm you. There have been cases where someone was killed because of a game or people died because they played for too long and forgot to drink anything for days. Of course, that's the most extreme part of the gaming community, but knowing that these lunatics actually exist can make you feel uneasy when you get those threats and people know where you live, what you look like and sometimes even have your phone number. Even if you are just a popular streamer some will try to harm you, look up swatting for further info. And they just play video games and don't talk about things that could make people angry in some way or another.

 

Anyway, I don't find it hard to believe that some people with unpopular opinions get death threats because I have received many of them just because I played better or worse than my fellow gamers or simply because I was in the wrong team.

 

 

tl;dr: people are dicks

[Dr. Thang]

And that's why I only play single player anymore.

[shirow]

Everyone gets death threats. Just play a popular multiplayer game like League of Legends, Call of Duty or Battlefield and you'll get your fair share of them.

 

Does getting cancer count as death threat? I would already be dead by cancer right now because too much people told me to get cancer. Yeah, I used to  play "LoL".

[Derethor]

If only I could make an informed opinion.

[baronesa]

It Seems there is a really lack of understanding on terms used here...

 

I read about "Third wave feminism" and then a contrast to older ones... and... seems people have them mixed up:

 

"Third-wave theory usually incorporates elements of queer theory, anti-racism and women-of-color consciousness; womanism, girl power, post-colonial theory, postmodernism, transnationalism, cyberfeminism, ecofeminism, individualist feminism, new feminist theory, transgender politics, and a rejection of the gender binary. Also considered part of the third wave is sex-positivity, a celebration of sexuality as a positive aspect of life, with broader definitions of what sex means and what oppression and empowerment may imply in the context of sex. For example, many third-wave feminists have reconsidered the opposition to pornography and sex work of the second wave, and challenge existing beliefs that participants in pornography and sex work are always being exploited."

 

"Third-wave feminism is often associated with the emergence of so-called "lipstick" or "girly" feminisms and with the rise of "raunch culture". This is because these new feminisms advocated for "expressions of femininity and female sexuality as a challenge to objectification". Accordingly, this included the dismissal of any restriction, whether deemed patriarchal or feminist, to define or control how women or girls can dress, act, or generally express themselves. These emerging positions stood in stark contrast with the anti-pornography strains of feminism prevalent in the 1980s. These new feminisms posit that the ability to make autonomous choices about self-expression can be an empowering act of resistance, not simply internalized oppression."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

 

 

The third wave rose in opposition of the anti sex stance brought by the second wave, same wave that gave us such lovely things like widespread transphobia on the writings of scholars like Janice Raymond.

 

Another reference to this is "The feminist sex wars" with the utterly simplistic pro and anti porn labels to define stances.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_sex_wars

There are MANY criticisms about the third wave... but being anti sex is NOT one of them

 

 

"The Feminists of yesterday said that women have no reason to be ashamed of their sexuality, that they should be as liberated as men are in this regard and celebrate their body and sexuality. The Feminists of today say that not only should women be ashamed of their sexuality and body, but men should be twice as ashamed of theirs.
The Feminists of yesterday said that men and woman should be treated equally, get equal pay, have equal chances at prooving themselves for a job position, but also get equal punishment as men if they break the law, aswell that they can't expect men to pay their bills for them."

 

This is btw is the stance broadly accepted as THIRD WAVE

 

And now regarding Christina Hoff Summers, I'll let Mumei do a brief rundown:

 

"Christina Hoff Sommers is a professional anti-feminist, in the sense that she is hostile to the espoused concerns of feminism, claims that feminists routinely lie, and that information offered by feminism is largely false. While she calls herself a feminist, her brand of feminism, power feminism is notable for its hostility to traditional feminist concerns (e.g. domestic, violence, sexual assault, education, gap in wage earnings, etc.), and is feminist only in the nominal sense that they agree that there should be equal rights. Power feminism is notable for contributing to the denial of research into the prevalence of rape, because power feminists felt that rape was being misused to describe ordinary sexual relations, and set about misrepresenting respected research in the field into order to argue that point. Their opposition to this, as well as research into domestic violence, also stems from the fact that they feel that the problem with women is that they are thinking of themselves as victims; that the only thing holding women back from equality is their failure to grab what is already available to them.

So, no, she's not feminist in the sense that most people use the term, and self-identified feminists would not recognize Christina Hoff Sommers' as their own."

 

You can obviously learn more about her, but always keep in mind she works for: American Enterprise Institute

 

Can check her here arguing that THE WAGE GAP does not exist Please tell me how she is so reasonable after that.

 

And finally, since obviously this veered into the GooberGate shitstorm...

 

Here you have a lovely parting gift:

 

Check this tweet

 

Let's begin shall we?

 

TERF: Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (a holdover from the second wave, btw)

 

This acronym was first coined by Radical Feminist disgusted by the trans exclusionary behavior that other radical feminists exhibited:

Here there is a nice interview to the ones who coined the acronym.

 

Since now goobergate is aligning themselves openly with the TERF (here click and see what they think) all I have to say is this:

 

I'm not going to even entertain the idea that a "movement" praising the same people who dehumanize me, deny me my right to exists, deny my identity, tries to put legislation in place so I am unable to seek transition, that I do net get protection due to my gender status, is in any way shape or form reasonable. Nor am I inclined to believe for a fraction of a second that this is in any way anything other than a big attack on feminism.

 

How can any of you explain that by praising the TERF, the same ones that are so staunchly anti sex work that are trying to impose the horrible Swedish Model, criminalizing Sex Work, and putting sex workers lives at risk, that are of the believe that ALL penetrative sex is rape, and of course that we trans women are not real women and put us in places like the many sites created by Cathy Brennan?

 

IF these are the "feminist" voices that you support... the ones that deny the existence of the wage gap, that date rape is not only real but a big problem (Hint, these 2? Sommers), the ones who want to criminalize Sex Work on EVERY level, be it camming, acting, phone sex, or any transaction in exchange for sex, the ones that consider BDSM an attack on all women, and that Trans women (never men, they never attack trans men, funny that...) are not real.

 

Then all I can tell you is, please kindly go fuck yourself, because you deserve NO regards and respect by denying MY humanity and that of MY trans sisters.

 

 

From Chile, with love

 

Andrea "Baronesa". Trans woman, lesbian, and more than 12 years of real life BDSM experience as a sub.

[Jayleia]

For a bit of a TL;DR of the previous post

 

Also, in something that hits much closer to "home", if what has been called "third wave" in this thread (its not even close to third wave), had its way, this site wouldn't exist.

 

Baronesa and I (and a few others here), also wouldn't exist.  So, yeah, its nice to know what people really think about us when they think we're not here.

[nonusnomeni]

ok 

i won't comment USA because i am not so much familiar with they laws

but i am familiar with laws of EU 

in EU every single country have minimum wage per hour

8-12 (depends on the country) payment classes based on education and qualification and health hazard

so lets take two uneducated  (without even elementary school) unqualified workers one male and one female 

minimum wage for that class is 1$/h

so lets say they both work on same place cleaning lady/men in some hotel (change sheets,clean holloway's wash windows)

wage is stil 1$/h for both of them because there is no health hazard and 99% workers on that workplace are females

but lets look some others working places for that kind of education

mine (99% of males) 

minimum wage is stil 1$/h for that working place based on education

but

100% bonus on health hazard make that 2$/h

 

so why some cleaning lady don't became miner lady

and please don't tell me she don't have physical predispositions for that

because feminism teach us "female can do everything male can do even better"

 

now lets see class 5 clerks elementary school 8y + high school 4y

minimum wage per hour for that class is 5$

bank clerks 99% females no health hazard

warehouse 99% males some of them work with highly flammable and toxic materials and they get 100% for health hazard so 10$/h

reason to not become warehouse clerk instead bank is not physically but purely sociological

or to quote my cousin when she was give quit after two months "i was lonely"

 

and for the end 12 class 50$/h

a true story

male and female  she is 6 days older went together in elementary school 8y high school 4y and get married and get together on medicine university

6y after that they split she was specialised bioengineering and he orthopedy

she work in research center with health hazard bonus 100% so 100$/h

he work in child hospital without health hazard bonus so he get 50$/h

 

so i wonder can anyone from europe (not USA because you don't have guaranteed minimum wage as i was heard) or from the rest of the world can show me a law which guarantee to males 30% bigger wage per hour

because i personally know if i give bigger wage per hour to males only i can be fined by laws of my country up to 5y of profit my business make

an 1-5y in prison

will any normal person risk that 

 

so please make me wrong

because i really want to find country where i wont be obligated to pay females for they work

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[baronesa]

Ahem:

 

How is the gender pay gap measured?

At EU level, the gender pay gap is defined as the relative difference in the average gross hourly earnings of women and men within the economy as a whole.

 

In 2012, the EU average is estimated at 16.4 %. This indicator has been defined as unadjusted (e.g. not adjusted according to differences in individual characteristics or other observable characteristics that may explain part of the earnings difference) because it gives an overall picture of gender discrimination and the inequalities in the labour market that explain gender differences in pay.

 

 

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/gender-pay-gap/situation-europe/index_en.htm

 

 

"so i wonder can anyone from europe (not USA because you don't have guaranteed minimum wage as i was heard) or from the rest of the world can show me a law which guarantee to males 30% bigger wage per hour"

 

This here is a strawman.... It is not a situation enshrined in law, it is a situation OUTSIDE the margins of the law, why a law SECURING equal pay is needed.

 

Also, the gender gap studies focus on the same level jobs. Basically 2 lawyers doing the same job, the woman will earn less. Happens as well between two janitors, 2 teachers etc.