demongoat Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 hmm i wonder why they couldn't release a version for the CK? if havok is free and all? beth seems to require at least one easily cured fuck up every game.
sbseed Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 more than one demongoat... but yea, it will be sweet to get some good anims squared away for sexrimresources.esm lists if nothing else
bigeyes Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Did not read the whole thread, somebody might have posted this earlier. Somewhere early in the thread it is written that skyrim havok behavior editing is missing and animations in skyrim only can be replaced but not added. Some minutes ago i found this Skyrim behavior setup by theru http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=13376
sbseed Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 thats the one that was already talked about earlier... this doesnt actually add anims to skyrim, just helps to setup links or connections options for anims already created or to be added later on etc.
DocClox Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 thats the one that was already talked about earlier... this doesnt actually add anims to skyrim' date=' just helps to setup links or connections options for anims already created or to be added later on etc. [/quote'] If I understand theru correctly, you can set up a new behavior file with all new animations. You can't merge that with the exsiting behavior file, but if you create a race using the new animations, and then specify that as a morph race for a standard race, the new anims get picked up as expected. Meanwhile we get all the good stuff of havok behaviors to work with. So it's still not perfect, but it's another big step forward.
labrat Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Actually, I am cautiously optimistic that Theru has cracked it, and with what he's done you can create and include new animations for the standard humanoid skeletons using a new branch on the behaviour tree. I'll be totally happy when I see the first animations in game rather than in the CK but that is likely to be very soon. We appear to have progressed from "It can't be done!" through "It might be possible, sort of, but it's going to be a technical nightmare" to "Actually, we can do it." in a month and a half. Just shows what can be achieved with a "never say die" attitude and the motivation of bouncing buttocks. Profound respectful bows to Theru and tears of earnest gratitude. At this rate it will be a doddle in 6 months. By which time, hopefully, it'll be Blender friendly.
sbseed Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 well there are some 'added' anims for skyrim but the current ones up on the nexus all suck because the characters involved all do some weird bouncing around during the anims. the new ones should have less issues with this tho and run more smoothly/accurately. and ill take the bouncing boobs over the butt any day or night as the case may be lol. someone will take this addon and create more that make adding new anims in a breeze... probably something close to the addon for blender to import meshes directly from nif files, gonna be some sweet anims coming soon.
dysfunkshunal Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 This is just pure conjecture here, but perhaps waiting for DLC might better help with the future 'cracking the code' of new animations in Skyrim. Right now, Bethesda is saying there is no way to add new animations to the game, but yet here we are trying to add them anyway. It's the same thing so many modders did when Skyrim was released before the Construction Kit was made available. Yes, they were successful but some of the work would have been so much easier had they just waited. My point of bringing that up is, when the DLC finally comes along, there is bound to be new animations within the .esp files of the DLC. Woudn't it work to just use those .esps and replace the animations within with sex ones, then repackage the .esps as purely sex-related, removing all other content? Having calls for them in-game can be the responsibility of another .esp that is part of the same sex animation package. Of course, I may not have a fucking clue what I'm talking about. I'm just making a guess here, like I said.
sbseed Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 problem with waiting for the DLC's is that they are going to take a few months before any of them become available and no initial dates or conjecture is given as to when they even might be finished... however, when the DLC's start coming out anims will need to be updated probably anyways so at that time any smoothing over that needs to be done with injecting the anims into the game can take place... personally i think its better to get anims ruffed in for mods now than having to try to (possibly) do twice as much work later on, so to speak. that said, i do agree that finalizing anims themselves including properly adding them via the CK if/when it becomes possible should wait till the DLC's and updates come out for the game and the CK.
fore Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 My point of bringing that up is' date=' when the DLC finally comes along, there is bound to be new animations within the .esp files of the DLC. Woudn't it work to just use those .esps and replace the animations within with sex ones, then repackage the .esps as purely sex-related, removing all other content? Having calls for them in-game can be the responsibility of another .esp that is part of the same sex animation package. [/quote'] Forget that. Animations are defined in the behaviors, not in an .esp. And Beth will add DLC animations just like the way they have added animations for Skyrim 1.5: make the already huge behavior files even bigger. Like the 2 biggest files were increased 10-15% (which I think is a lot for a simple update). The only added 1 more behavior file: crossbow_direction. Because why should they add a new behavior graph when the add like some more kill moves? It's certainly much easier when you just add to an already existing and tested one.
sbseed Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 yea, personally i think it should be the other way around for the behaviors and anims... at least in regards to .esp's etc. also, did you see the texture updates file sizes?... ridiculously huge, i think when they add new anims and textures they dont use much (if any) compression on the texture/other updates and possibly not even a dynamic overwrite load/list. so who knows whats going to happen with the sizes and loads when the DLC's are released... probably bloat the game by double, who knows.
magnemoe Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 problem with waiting for the DLC's is that they are going to take a few months before any of them become available and no initial dates or conjecture is given as to when they even might be finished... however' date=' when the DLC's start coming out anims will need to be updated probably anyways so at that time any smoothing over that needs to be done with injecting the anims into the game can take place... personally i think its better to get anims ruffed in for mods now than having to try to (possibly) do twice as much work later on, so to speak. that said, i do agree that finalizing anims themselves including properly adding them via the CK if/when it becomes possible should wait till the DLC's and updates come out for the game and the CK. [/quote'] How will this system work with DLC anyway? say you don't buy the first dlc but the later ones. Operation Anchorage was the weakest Fallout 3 DLC so I guess plenty of people dropped it. Do they patch the game and add the new animations for everybody, so any new dlc gets it's own patch if it contain one or more new animations. See this as the only way to do this and keep just one animation record.
DocClox Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 How will this system work with DLC anyway? say you don't buy the first dlc but the later ones. Operation Anchorage was the weakest Fallout 3 DLC so I guess plenty of people dropped it. I figure when they release DLC N, it will have all a behavior file with all the base game animations, plus those from DLC1 to DLC N-1. I expect each DLC will be use a lot of animations from earlier DLCs anyway.
sbseed Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 there are always updates that are separate from the DLC's, they update the game and CK just before DLC release to 'prepare' the main game and previous DLC's etc. for anything new that is coming with the DLC's. so basically anything added via DLC's that isnt already a part of the main game or the CK will be added so that the game can access and properly use assets such as animations/tools/models/textures etc. in-game. they end up patching/updating the game and DLC's anyways though because even with everything working 'in-house' it still screws up... been consistent with all of the games ever made using the GameBryo engine which is what the CK is. even then sometimes the updates dont work or make things worse lol.
GrimReaper Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I can't find the interview anymore, but I am pretty sure that one of the devs said that it would be oh so easy to add new animations to the game thanks to the new havok stuff they are working with. Of course, that was a few months before Skyrim was released. I can't really think of a reason why Bethesda would make it so hard for modders other than just being dicks.
sbseed Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 well it is easier than it was, with the blender addon (for nif import/export easily) from previous games... then you have the behaviors addon for the CK to help add new animations plus the triggers for them to the game (not sure if its mod specific or not tho)... and when the DLC's come out the CK will be upgraded with more options as well.
remois Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 If only behavior files where working like bsa... also the behavior system is just plain stupid from a programmer pov: - Two race/entity object that use the same base animation + a little difference: blam two bloated behavior files that contain almost exactly the same set or one big behavior file that contains the info or x number of similar creatures... - Huge files are harder on any file system, also load time increase and bloat memory from stuff you may not even use until far later in the game... - Patching is a pain especially with dlc part... Either it's intentional to block modders, in that case it would have at least a use, either it make their life easy enough (from a programming pov) to let that slide... Anyway it's a big slap on the modding community... If only it could work like a bsa Because even if we could add more, you'd have to patch any non vanilla based custom race you may add
sbseed Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 If only behavior files where working like bsa... also the behavior system is just plain stupid from a programmer pov: - Two race/entity object that use the same base animation + a little difference: blam two bloated behavior files that contain almost exactly the same set or one big behavior file that contains the info or x number of similar creatures... - Huge files are harder on any file system' date=' also load time increase and bloat memory from stuff you may not even use until far later in the game... - Patching is a pain especially with dlc part... Either it's intentional to block modders, in that case it would have at least a use, either it make their life easy enough (from a programming pov) to let that slide... Anyway it's a big slap on the modding community... If only it could work like a bsa Because even if we could add more, you'd have to patch any non vanilla based custom race you may add [/quote'] agreed, it is screwed up... and yes with programming its ridiculous, but what gets me is even from a scripting standpoint its retarded... its still better than it first was (specially for skyrim).
labrat Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Maybe we are doing it wrong? Undoubtably. At the moment it's a very complicated lockpicking exercise, worthwhile and making steady progress, but the dividend will be the discovery of a simple key. Like GrimReaper heard, I hope that despite the current omertà from Beth developers it really will be easy to create new animations once we see the trick.
sbseed Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 might come with updates to the CK and game when the DLCs come out... but it will most likely happen before they get around to 'fixing' it.
remois Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Ah by the way theru just released his behavior editor (open source too): http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=14016
sbseed Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Ah by the way theru just released his behavior editor (open source too): http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=14016 lol, just got through talking about that earlier in the thread and you are correct that does help, but i believe he was saying its still a pain in the ass because you cannot currently add any of the animation information to the ESP/ESMs etc.(altho i could be wrong on that)
Guest Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Bad news' date=' guys. There won't be any animation mod with plenty new animations in the near future. Whatever new animation you see, it's a modification of an existing file of the game, and REPLACES that animation. For example, this "Lydia Adult Show XXX" replaces "enter_bedroll", and whenever one NPC is required to run the original enter_bedroll in the game, s/he will run this sex animation instead. And I doubt that you will find that many animations in the game, which are there for no reason, and can be replaced without breaking the game. The problem is that Havok (the new animation engine) anims are much more complicated than the old Gamebryo/NIF format. And although two third of their tools are publicly available, one third (Behavior) is not. And even if you "find" a version, Bethesda has not released the files necessary to feed this tool. (hkx behavior files are only a stripped version of what you would need to modify). And defining additional idle animations is only one of probably many things of what is hidden in these behavior files. So unless a highly intelligent programmer finds a way to hack those behavior files (and possibly implements an idle manager on top of that, so different animations mods won't be automatically incompatible with one another), there will be no new animations. At least in a way that the rest of Skyrim will work as before. Sorry for that news. I'm hit hard myself, because I had some animation illusions myself, before learning hard reality. [/quote'] Why did Bethesda make that engine if it's so hard to add new animations with it? The idea with TES is that players are free to create what mods they want. It's good that they made scripting better but it doesn't help much if we can't make new animations.
Halstrom Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Why did Bethesda make that engine if it's so hard to add new animations with it? The idea with TES is that players are free to create what mods they want. It's good that they made scripting better but it doesn't help much if we can't make new animations.I can only suspect it's either a deliberate attempt to limit sex modding of the game or just a blantant management costcutting or incompetenace screwup.
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