Sexlab Defeat or Sexlab Submit?

[Guest Lord Tristem]

I am curious as two which one I should use and would love to hear every bodies opinion on which is better and why?

 

edit: I've been using Defeat but I am starting to get curious as to whether I should be using it or Submit instead.

[Laura]

Both mods are basicly the same on some level.

It mostly depends which plugins/add-ons you like the most.

I personally prefer defeat as i seems to be more reliable and because i really like Devious Captures.

[Neodarkside]

I've used both together. However the newer verstion of Defeat works more like Submit does. Theres also to many things that annoy me about submit. If you get defeated with submit, theres nothing to stop the NPC from raping you, defeat you have a chance to get away. The tied up bit after they are done with you is pretty neat, but the timer for a repeat rape attempt is to damn short, especially if you got defeated right by an enemies camp location. They will never move away from your location and at times I went thru 6 attempts to escape the bonds and got raped over and over. At that point I just restart or console command kill them all because I'm to annoyed to keep trying. Since submit rolls on the RNG and if the number fails by a certain % they just rape you again. The other thing that annoyed me with submit was the option to steal all your gear, leaving you naked and now they use your best stuff. Made it even harder to get away. I always turned that feature off myself. The thing I DID like about submit was it did have death disable, however it barely worked. Half the time I still died. There is one bit on Submit tho that I loved. You could set it so that talking to male or female npcs it gave you a speech option to convince them to have sex with you, and the options were great, especially the roleplay option. To me that should be added to Sexlab itself. I still have submit installed but all its rape features are disabled, I have the speech sex option enabled and the option to capture enemies for abuse or turning in for rewards.

 

The latest thing for defeat kinda does the same thing Submit does, but I think it did it better. Not sure which version of Defeat you are using, but like I said the new version is so much nicer. You can run both however. Defeat has an option that asks how low health before Defeat will not kick in, so if you set it for 1% you can get knocked down at 1% but 0 is of course death, which then Submit would kick in with its death saving part. So really you could use both, like set Defeat to kick in anywhere from 1% to 50% life with a 10% chance of being knocked down per hit, then set Submit to auto surrender you 100% if you reach 0 life. Just need to tweak them in the options.

 

 

[Sneaksmile]

I like more Defeat  specially by the options, I like rape bandits but I don't like they can rape my character or my followers so work like a charm combined with Sex-Addicts.   

[Just Checking]

I use both at the same time, but admittedly, I turn off Submit's combat stuff and just use it for the dialogue part.  Defeat handles all the rapes and stuff in my game, which I think it does well.  The auto surrender function is a bit smoother, and you don't need to fire a shout to make enemies surrender.  It also has general npc vs npc options, so on the odd occasion you'll find a random traveler got in a fight with a random bandit or something and things got crazy.

[tase]

I'm also on the fence between these 2. I've never used Submit, I've used Defeat. I just want the one that is the most stable and the most customizable.

[Zydar]

I used to run both while also using SD+, nowadays I stick to having Defeat alongside SD+ since both are using Death Alternative. Reason being less conflict and less load on my Papyrus in general.

[Sylphirion]

I've used both and am sticking to Defeat. I liked Submit, but it doubled up on things like dialogue options that I had other mods handling. I think the best way to decide between them is if you want one thing to do a lot, take Submit, but if you want different mods more specialized in their execution, pick Defeat? But that's just my experience. 

[Kimy]

I've used both together. However the newer verstion of Defeat works more like Submit does. Theres also to many things that annoy me about submit. If you get defeated with submit, theres nothing to stop the NPC from raping you, defeat you have a chance to get away.

 

That's actually the exact reason why I prefer Submit over Defeat. I don't like this quick-time event thing and you can't seem to disable the resist mechanism at all. If I am knocked down, I want the mobs to rape me and send me packing when they are done with me, no matter what. Submit does exactly that, so that's why I am using it, although Defeat would otherwise fit much better with the rest of my setup (I am using Death Alternative, and getting Submit to work with that is a PITA). If the Defeat author makes the resist QTE optional one day I am probably going to switch.

[irvandipawangsa]

Could anyone please share the weaknesses and badness of Sexlab Defeat and Sexlab Submit?

[ChaosZen]

Unfortunately I like both.

Trying to use both can cause a lot of issues, but despite their similarities, they each still have some features different from the other, which some of us consider worth trying to use both anyway. It would be nice if somebody could combine all of the features of both of them, into a single mod, which would work in more desirable, and user configurable ways. 

 

To further compound the issues, I also like to run them both in addition to Death Alternative (Your Money or Your Life), Sexlab Aroused, Deviously Helpless, and Sexlab Rape. To do so while still remaining functional only requires some tricky tuning-down of event triggers and arousal rates in the MCM configurations. 

[RUD3DUD3]

Unfortunately I like both.

Trying to use both can cause a lot of issues, but despite their similarities, they each still have some features different from the other, which some of us consider worth trying to use both anyway. It would be nice if somebody could combine all of the features of both of them, into a single mod, which would work in more desirable, and user configurable ways. 

 

To further compound the issues, I also like to run them both in addition to Death Alternative (Your Money or Your Life), Sexlab Aroused, Deviously Helpless, and Sexlab Rape. To do so while still remaining functional only requires some tricky tuning-down of event triggers and arousal rates in the MCM configurations. 

what issues ?? i run them both and have no issue but ofcourse i have turned off submit's surrender feature and use offensive one and dialogue feature from it. they are the best IMO.

[ChaosZen]

 

Unfortunately I like both.

Trying to use both can cause a lot of issues, but despite their similarities, they each still have some features different from the other, which some of us consider worth trying to use both anyway. It would be nice if somebody could combine all of the features of both of them, into a single mod, which would work in more desirable, and user configurable ways. 

 

To further compound the issues, I also like to run them both in addition to Death Alternative (Your Money or Your Life), Sexlab Aroused, Deviously Helpless, and Sexlab Rape. To do so while still remaining functional only requires some tricky tuning-down of event triggers and arousal rates in the MCM configurations. 

what issues ?? i run them both and have no issue but ofcourse i have turned off submit's surrender feature and use offensive one and dialogue feature from it. they are the best IMO.

 

 

Ignore me, I have no idea what I am talking about at the moment. Or more accurately, I have both disabled for the moment and do not remember the details of which of the two had which features until I level up a bit on a new playthrough before re-enabling them. If I recall, I think that one of the issues was a very long delay before release, likely caused by the surrender hotkey being set to the same in both mods. Another I'd sometimes experience, but possibly due to another mod entirely, would be when attackers would instantly lose interest and walk away immediately after hitting the surrender hotkey.

[RUD3DUD3]

 

 

Unfortunately I like both.

Trying to use both can cause a lot of issues, but despite their similarities, they each still have some features different from the other, which some of us consider worth trying to use both anyway. It would be nice if somebody could combine all of the features of both of them, into a single mod, which would work in more desirable, and user configurable ways. 

 

To further compound the issues, I also like to run them both in addition to Death Alternative (Your Money or Your Life), Sexlab Aroused, Deviously Helpless, and Sexlab Rape. To do so while still remaining functional only requires some tricky tuning-down of event triggers and arousal rates in the MCM configurations. 

what issues ?? i run them both and have no issue but ofcourse i have turned off submit's surrender feature and use offensive one and dialogue feature from it. they are the best IMO.

 

 

Ignore me, I have no idea what I am talking about at the moment. Or more accurately, I have both disabled for the moment and do not remember the details of which of the two had which features until I level up a bit on a new playthrough before re-enabling them. If I recall, I think that one of the issues was a very long delay before release, likely caused by the surrender hotkey being set to the same in both mods. Another I'd sometimes experience, but possibly due to another mod entirely, would be when attackers would instantly lose interest and walk away immediately after hitting the surrender hotkey.

 

those are known issue from submit and coz of that i always have that surrender feature turned off it isn't best but other features like you being aggressor and dialogue feature i like the most.

[ChaosZen]

I think the biggest choice to make between the two is when deciding how you want things to be handled when you (the PC) is to be the aggressor, and which of the mods best handles those features, and then which features you prefer when the PC is the victim.

 

It is a shame that there is not a more refined method to turn all specific features on or off in each of both mods, or else the authors of both Defeat and Surrender get together someday and merge the two into a single, more configurable, more universal mod to allow user tweaking of all of their assorted options and features. Imagine, just one key in one mod, to surrender in the way that you wish to, while still also allowing another single key for the player to sneak-attack (grab and tie) any target under the right conditions, take advantage of a "Deviously Helpless" NPC, or force an enemy to submit. 

[Bazinga]

Hopefully the answer will soon be "none of the above, take Scent of Sex and make some rules with it instead".

Still a bit early for that though but we might be getting there.

The fewer mods to get the same result the better.

[Niobia]

I use Submit because I like the ability to talk to anyNPC and have sex with with them through a speech check. Not to mention, when you do have sex with them, their relationship rank goes up, so with merchants you can get better prices and happier dialog that you might not get otherwise because there's no quest for certain NPCs to change their disposition. it works well for gameplay and very well for RPing. The rape options add some nice immersion, but I don't include it in my play throughs honestly. Sometimes I might use it on a hostile NPC as an RP way to recruit them as a submissive servant or a brainwashed follower, but normally my characters aren't so violent.

[D_ManXX2]

The biggest difference is defeat allows npc vs npc and submit is only player oriented. 

[galgat]

 I like defeat better, because it has no DDI, which I have a lot of DDI mods that I run, so is not a slight at DDI.

 

   But some versions of submit do not I think have DDI, but I am not sure if these will work now

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Look up mod Makers I know about

 

dkatryl
amaso
Guest >>> FONV
zacko
Aelie

 

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      It is just that the DDI mods pretty much all do the same, bind me up, leave me at some strange location to find my way back, have me go on some mission while bound up, and get more things to bind me up as I go. ( I get to many of them running, and I can not even figure out which key I need, or how long do I have to wear it, or do I need to avoid sex, or have sex, or what person I need to go see, or if struggling will get it off, for me it can be confusing )  I like this don't get me wrong, but except for the dialogue, they are pretty much all the same, as far as the way they handle the bondage.

 

   So I kind of like to limit the number of DDI mods I have going at one time. Defeat allows me to do that.

 

   But I also sometimes play Submit ( And I like it, some of the versions better than others ) in all of its various forms, I think there are about 6 version of submit or submit like mods, maybe out there now.  So actually when you say submit, It is hard to know which one your playing.

 

   Defeat is a mod if I could have no other Sexlab mod, and could only have one, then for me defeat would be it. I love many of the mods all of them actually, but Defeat, has the most except-able story ( Your defeated, and raped, or you sell yourself to some one, as it has a small prostitution thing going ), and is the most original of all of them, it having been around almost sense the inception of Sexlab. One of the older mod's here, and still actively worked on.

 

   A spin off of the rape mods, created for Oblivion, which I actually created, and translated some of those. But still I think Defeat is the best of those re produced for the Skyrim Game.

 

   As it has a very low dependency of any really Mod crushing resource's, does not even need Zaz

 

-------------------- Requirements
Last versions of these mods are REQUIRED :
SexLab Framework 1.60+
SKYUI
SKSE 1.7.3+
FNIS Do no forget to download and install the creature pack under optional files.

 

  It is unlikely to be made obsolete by some resource that changes in any way and suddenly crushes the mod.  It does recommend quite a few mods, but it actually need very little to run.

 

   So over all i think it is the better choice, but I like running some other DDI mods with it, just not Submit, I find running it by it's self to be more enjoyable to me.

[7osisg4d]

Submit is abandoned. Most of it's features have found their way into Defeat.

 

Overall it hasn't been properly owned and loved in a while so I've found it to be fairly buggly on SL161 and mostly broken on SL162 even when starting with a new savegame. 

There are a couple community updates if you dig into the submit forum thread.  

 

While I miss some of its functionality, I've wasted far too much time on it to justify keeping it in my load order.

 

 

 

[ChaosZen]

Submit is abandoned. Most of it's features have found their way into Defeat.

 

Overall it hasn't been properly owned and loved in a while so I've found it to be fairly buggly on SL161 and mostly broken on SL162 even when starting with a new savegame. 

There are a couple community updates if you dig into the submit forum thread.  

 

While I miss some of its functionality, I've wasted far too much time on it to justify keeping it in my load order.

 

I agree. Although I will miss the player as aggressor "G" key sneak attacks, the game runs smoother and more reliably since deactivating Submit and Surrender, and opting to settle for Defeat only. I can still attack, abuse, be the aggressor, or  whatever, I just need to wait until an enemy or NPC goes in to bleedout before that sort of option is enabled.

[Numerals]

Could anyone please share the weaknesses and badness of Sexlab Defeat and Sexlab Submit?

 

At the current state, years after the thread was created, Submit's biggest weakness is that it's dead.

 

There's no competition between the two at all anymore, you either use Defeat or use neither.

[zero121]

I mostly used Submit for the dialog options, is there a mod that can replicate that function?

[Ahnassi]

I mostly used Submit for the dialog options, is there a mod that can replicate that function?

Me too. In Oblivion it wasn't that bad with voiceless dialogue, but in Skyrim it is almost required in my opinion. There is other mods that have such options, but they don't have voiced dialogue.

[noooot]

The best is submit simply because you can SHOUT SUBMIT TO A NEARLY DEAD bitch to properly DOMINATE her instead accidentally wasting a slave. Though defeat have the options to sneak up and auto dominate which is mostly.... how any fight should be unless the girls knows any kind of magic or has a crossbow and distance.