I Love Eso

[B0ss plz]

I've been a fan of the Elder Scrolls since Morrowind years back and I've seen a lot of... not hate but, disappointment in the community.

I love ESO, I think it's such a milestone and really like both what it is and its upcoming content.

So far I'm a V5 rank and still going, but what I want cleared up is why there is a lot a negative comment, reviews etc. out there.

 

Yes I understand there are huge bugs and glitches and even some people thought that this was a bad idea that they made the game in the first place.

What do you guys think?

[ElectricSheep]

There is a thread about ESO already, so if you want it "cleared out", why don't you go there and read?

[NoxTM]

Boring, boring, boring, boring...

Lore-breaking, immersion breaking..

Bots, bots, bots, bots.. GOLDSELLER.

 

Dissapointed.

 

 

That's what i'm thinking.

Worst Game with the name "The Elder Scrolls" ever! Doesn't deserve it at all..

[Kaz Aanh]

Todd Howard says:

 

"You know, it's what most of us are into. I'm not really an MMO guy. I respect them, I look at them, but I don't play them. It feels more real to me when I'm the hero and it's crafted for that. A community aspect to it, I recognize a lot of people would want that in a game like this, but it changes the flavor for me"

 

I don't know if you follow that guy reviews or you hate it but he points out what has been done in the wrong way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

While you can't base solely on the review I did take a part in the beta weekends. So this game isn't worth the money you are supposed to pay for. It doesn't offer anything interesting and feels like a another boring MMO ,its just unrefreshing.

 

There are many other free alternatives that feel better than ESO.

[...0...]

Don't compare Morrowind with ESO thats where you lost my respect for this topic, you have obvious never players Elder Scroll games.

 

That particular video from Angry Joe is spot on and shows exactly whats wrong with ESO compare to Solo Elder Scrolls serie.

[ratrace]

Paying extra to choose an imperial character? Or to have a horse? There is word for that: cash grab. Bethesda and Zenimax can shove that cash cow up their arses. What a scam.

[ElectricSheep]

Or to have a horse?

History likes to repeat itself.

[ratrace]

 

History likes to repeat itself.

Ifd you mean the Oblivion horse amror pack, yes, that was shit. But horse riding sucked in Oblivion anyway.

 

In Skyrim I find horses essential. But anyway: To take everyday RPG stuff as horses or a very common race like the imperial race and make that additional content you have to pay for is almost openly admitting that all they want is money for basically nothing.

 

I hope that Bethesda doesn't follow that path in future games.

 

And I'm looking forward to Skywind

 

http://tesrenewal.com

 

Enderal

 

http://sureai.net/projects/enderal/?lang=en

[Trykz]

ESO's biggest problem, in a nutshell, is that it wasn't made by Bethesda. And it's pretty obvious that few to none at Zenimax ever really played an ES game in their lives. Or ESO would STILL be in development and not just another half-assed cash grab MMO.

 

Trykz

[ElectricSheep]

 

 

History likes to repeat itself.

Ifd you mean the Oblivion horse amror pack, yes, that was shit. But horse riding sucked in Oblivion anyway.

I heard it sucks in TESO as well, just in a different way. Paying for a horse or a horse armor - it's in the same vein.

 

I doubt Bethesda would be capable of pulling off a decent mmo given they have no experience with this genre (which is why it's being developed by Zenimax in the first place, as the obvious cash-grab it is).

[ratrace]

 

Paying for a horse or a horse armor - it's in the same vein.

Yep.

 

 

I doubt Bethesda would be capable of pulling off a decent mmo given they have no experience with this genre

And I hope they learn from the ESO desaster. I mean: is the TES universe even suited for MMO at all? It all evolves around the player, there's always a main quest and tons of side quests centered around the player, and - at least to me - Elder Scrolls games always were a soothing, solitary experience. Even though I played Skyrim for thousands of hours and know what happens in all of the quests, I can still just fire it up and just take a walk with a follower or alone, let myself get distracted by a few caves, bandit and giant camps, stumble over a Khajiit drug dealer or a suicidal orc, listen to Maiq, not following a questline or doing anything sensible at all but just randomly walk around and relax (and take screenshots). Anyone here who does that as well? Playing the game without a goal?

 

I mean, Beth games CAN be played like you have to beat the game and cut through the quests like a knife through butter, but you can also just pick up a little task from time to time but mainly just stroll around. But that is only actually rewarding if the landscape including the encounters is actually exciting and beautiful and not static and bland.

 

Apart from that, the option to mod Bethesda games is why I like them.

[Guest]

Unfortunately I had no chance to try the beta (because of a ... rare bug, wow...) but what I've seen around on screenshots and videos is enough for me to think it really deserves a try. Also, what's best that having the possibility to play a game I love with friends?

The only downside is I will have to play it as fast as I can and do everything in the smaller time I can, this mean I'll stop with modding and anything else just to stick with it. Why that? anxiety... The monthly paytoll gives me anxiety. I played much or less two years on Skyrim and I still find it funny and still play it. If that happens on TESO too this means I will have to pay... almost 300 €, much or less. Now that's my real concern, not only the horse or the imperial race for preorders. It's like if I buy skyrim and then after few months I must bring it back to the shop because I exhausted the time limit. I mean... ok servers and updates require expenses and maintenance but still... it's quite a good tax, yes, this translates in play everything I can in 3 months, no more or I will spend too much, then put it on a corner waiting for a hipothetic F2P at least for the monthly fee

 

@Mogie any chance to see Rebel cat again in the future?

[ElectricSheep]

 

 

What I find funny is that that is pretty much the sentiment by most complaining about ESO but on the other hand they've always complained about anything "made by Bethesda". It really doesn't matter WHO made an elder scrolls game, they are going to bitch about it regardless just for the sake of bitching and having some sort of conflict in there lives, as if they can't function without it. But as we all know, opinions are fact and will be forced down your throat no matter what it takes.

But really, what game isn't a cash grab. you buy it, then you buy DLC and more DLC and more DLC all of which should of been left in the game to begin with but it was decided to chop them up into little bits and sell them as if it was never there. There isn't a game on the market or has ever been on the market that hasn't been bitched about as if game devs are supposed to cater to the individual CONSUMER exactly. It's funny and sad how entitled we've become.

 

You generalize too much; different ppl complain about different things. TESO is quite universally considered shit - by those who like Bethesda, as well as by those who don't. There's lots of valid complaints about TES games and calling them all "bitching for the sake of bitching" is unjustified.

 

Not every AAA game is a cash grab in the sense that it's just lazy and underdeveloped crap made for easy bucks.

[Captain Cobra]

Producers aren't entitled to my money just because they made a product.

 

If they can't sell me on it, I wont buy it.

[Deedlit]

im not a bethesda fanboy belive i just dnt liked the game at all, looks like almost a gw2 for me with worst animation, its tastes, i already bought gw2 and eso (imperial edition /cry), and i regret that, idk i like old style things where people do strategy for things and takes longer to lvl (i was 40 when i quit, that in less of 1 month lol), and where you feel real danger when combat start or when goes to a new area with new mobs (like ffxi and everquest ), belive its not just with eso that, its looks like almost all mmorpgs(idk if can call theses days mmorpg, looks like more like mmos just), kinda goes dull and nosense combat, i still remember when people does strategy and use the damn CC at mobs, but today its rambo style (army of 1 men), i still trying find a good one mmorpg, tried free ones, b2p, p2p and till now no lucky at all, i kinda miss the guild friendships like old days, now its goes like enter raidcall / TS to speak nosense things and yea its mandatory use that... i guess im kinda old and jurassic because that, but i still prefer the old way, i kinda regret because its will be just a dream because industry are taking opposite way.

Sorry grammar and typos.

[Sarathis]

 

And I hope they learn from the ESO desaster. I mean: is the TES universe even suited for MMO at all? It all evolves around the player, there's always a main quest and tons of side quests centered around the player, and - at least to me - Elder Scrolls games always were a soothing, solitary experience. Even though I played Skyrim for thousands of hours and know what happens in all of the quests, I can still just fire it up and just take a walk with a follower or alone, let myself get distracted by a few caves, bandit and giant camps, stumble over a Khajiit drug dealer or a suicidal orc, listen to Maiq, not following a questline or doing anything sensible at all but just randomly walk around and relax (and take screenshots). Anyone here who does that as well? Playing the game without a goal?

 

I mean, Beth games CAN be played like you have to beat the game and cut through the quests like a knife through butter, but you can also just pick up a little task from time to time but mainly just stroll around. But that is only actually rewarding if the landscape including the encounters is actually exciting and beautiful and not static and bland.

 

Apart from that, the option to mod Bethesda games is why I like them.

 

It is suited for a MMO, really, just not a theme park one. Any fan of the way TES games work, the way you've always been able to customize your character in thousands of ways, the way the game scales to your skills level, the way you can go anywhere and explore at any time, would agree that the world would be perfect for a sandbox MMO. Sadly, the only MMO that's been incredibly successful and massively profitable has been WoW. Therefor every accountant and financial analyst in the business recommends that all new games must follow the same formula that WoW uses so that they can theoretically pull subscribers away from WoW. They theorize that the MMO pool is finite and in order to get money you have to get players from that already existing pool. Anything experimental is a 'bad investment'. 

 

ESO is a theme park WoW-esque MMO with artificial TES flavoring. They say you can go anywhere any time you want... and you can if you want to get slaughtered. They say you can customize your character and mix and match skills any way you like... but if you don't take the optimal skill sets you're going to be gimped late in the game. So on and so forth. You simply can't have sandbox-like game mechanics when you have a rigid theme park structure based on finite levels, non-scaling mobs and quests, and limited skill points. Then when you take that and spread it across multiple gaming platforms...

 

That being said, all in all I don't think ESO is a terrible game. I haven't played since launch but I beta tested for... five months, I think? And in that time I got a pretty good grasp of what the game's all about. The game mechanics are very familiar to anyone who's played WoW, LotRO, SWTOR, RIFT, etc... It's very vibrant and pretty, though that makes their dull armor color palettes stick out like a sore thumb. The underlying storyline is fairly interesting, though not terribly original. Some of the minor elements, the races and accents, reading books to gain skills, finding food in every sack and barrel in existence, etc... make me smile because they feel very TES. Some of the fights against Daedric incursions can be very fun if you have the right people helping out. It's not a great game but it's far from the worst MMO I've ever played.

 

 

 

And, yeah, ratrace, I just wander around Skyrim all the time without a plan. I get real sick of bear and wolf attacks but it's very relaxing to just pick a direction and ride for a while to see what you'll encounter.

[ratrace]

 

And, yeah, ratrace, I just wander around Skyrim all the time without a plan. I get real sick of bear and wolf attacks but it's very relaxing to just pick a direction and ride for a while to see what you'll encounter.

It has something of a little meditation, hasn't it?

 

 

It is suited for a MMO, really, just not a theme park one. Any fan of the way TES games work, the way you've always been able to customize your character in thousands of ways, the way the game scales to your skills level, the way you can go anywhere and explore at any time, would agree that the world would be perfect for a sandbox MMO. Sadly, the only MMO that's been incredibly successful and massively profitable has been WoW. Therefor every accountant and financial analyst in the business recommends that all new games must follow the same formula that WoW uses so that they can theoretically pull subscribers away from WoW. They theorize that the MMO pool is finite and in order to get money you have to get players from that already existing pool. Anything experimental is a 'bad investment'.

Perhaps that's it, you hit the nail. I was - probably like many TES fans out there - expecting just what you describe and all I saw (have not played it myself but watched hours of gameplay videos from people who like it and were surly not negatively biased) was that TES theme park. Tailored to suit the WoW fans. No offense against these fans, but that's a totally different game and imho not at all what a TES fan is looking for.

 

But one must admit that the game was actually advertised in a way that expectations towards some sort of genuine TES experience as an MMORPG couldn't be avoided.

 

However, more non-online games are sure to come. I'm so very keen on seeing the Skyrim total conversions when they're out of beta.

[Coopervane]

Anyone here who does that as well? Playing the game without a goal?

 

Yup, infact that's the most appealing aspect of Beth's games to me, the open world.

 

 

As for the origional question: It's because they took a TES game and turned it into a vanilla MMO.

 

MMO focused players are disappointed because it's vanilla, it does very little new, it does very little better, it's just a marginal iteration of the WoW formula that they have played for years and years. It's dull, it lacks content, the PvE is the same bland grinding system it always is and does nothing of value with the MMO concept. The PvP seems to be what most of them find enjoyable, but it's just a neverending game of Capture the Flag that can never conclude, and where all that matters is which team can create the biggest Zerg-Ball to steamroll the others. That can't stay engaging forever, or even for long..

 

TES players lured over from the SP games mostly come to hate that it's an MMO, how this effects quest and world design, that other players are constantly wrecking any immersion that could be had, that the enemies are now "mobs" who feel disengaged from the world and generally won't attack you unless provoked, because they only exist to be respawning XP farms, and respawn seconds later making it feel pointless to kill them. And it certainly doesen't help that the world is so cloused off and static, you can't just venture of into the distance TES style because you will be killed, you need to always play small segments of the world at a time and grind for XP, you are always confined, and nothing in the world can actually change in any way because then other players woulden't have the designed experiance that you just had.

 

And both of those groups will lament the grouping system. MMO players because it sucks and does nothing with the MMO concept, and SP players because all they really wanted was to play Skyrim with a freind, but can't even get that since grouping sucks.

 

 

The PvE is too much of an MMO to engage the singeplayer TES fanbase, but ironically is also not enough of an MMO to engage the seasoned MMO playerbase. And it can't even bridge the gap and become a passable co-op style game because the grouping system is fundamentally flawed and terrible. That just leaves the PvP, which many of the SP fanbase are not interested in to begin with (no one ever played TES games for their PvP combat, because they had none), but once you get past the "ohh wow" factor of the big battles, it'll quickly dawn on you that it's just a neverending 3-way CTF game that will almost always be decided by witchever faction has the most connected users at any given time. It's just a pointless time sink really, and you could play any number of online PvP focused games that have much better combat mechanics.

 

Tag on an unreasonably high paywall that servers as a barrier to entry, due mostly to Day-0 DLC that is all but required (oh sorry, i should say "special edition" because that has a nicer ring to it), a steep monthly fee that comes with an abusive 30-day cancellation plan, and oh yes, the bloody thing also has a Cash-shop build in that you can expect to see open it's doors with "fun stuff and services" very soon, just in case you didn't spend enough of your money already. The whole thing starts to look like.. well if i wanted to be charitable i'd say they are miliking the license till blood comes out, but i'm more inclined to say it looks like a scam.

 

 

 

This is all painted in very broad and general terms of course, and it seems there is a good chunk of players who fall between the cracks of the two big groups, and find something they enjoy about TESO and latch on to it. But i honestly coulden't tell you why. You tell me man, what do you see in TESO? And moreover, what are you seeing in such amounts that it's worth 15 real-money buckazoids a month just to play it?

[ElectricSheep]

 

So on and so forth. You simply can't have sandbox-like game mechanics when you have a rigid theme park structure based on finite levels, non-scaling mobs and quests, and limited skill points. 

 

Level scaling along with the lack of hand-placed and unique loot is what kills TES games for me. In Morrowind one could always come across an enemy too hard to kill, or find some super rare item that would be useful dozens of levels after it was found. And that was the whole fucking point of exploring: you never knew what you may find in a dungeon. Both in Oblivion and Skyrim the sense of danger and mystery is almost completely gone for the sake of the whole map being accessible on every level.

[ElectricSheep]

What hateful comments? I see none so far.

[Coopervane]

 

Level scaling along with the lack of hand-placed and unique loot is what kills TES games for me. In Morrowind one could always come across an enemy too hard to kill, or find some super rare item that would be useful dozens of levels after it was found. And that was the whole fucking point of exploring: you never knew what you may find in a dungeon. Both in Oblivion and Skyrim the sense of danger and mystery is almost completely gone for the sake of the whole map being accessible on every level.

 

What they really need is to strike a balance between the two. The open world go-anywhere concept is a good one (and importantly, it's something TES can offer that most won't), but the lack of challenging fights and terrible loot is not. They really need to find some middle ground, injecting some more tough enemies, and waaaay more unique loot (oh wow i found a dwarven sword with a fire enchant.. i could just have crafted that had i wanted one).

 

I'm not a fan of ESO, but why don't you guys keep your hateful comments of ESO in the other thread? Where's the mods stepping up here? sheesh... I figured this would be a thread for the ESO fans... Rant everywhere on LL these days...

 

A: Bringing forth well reasoned arguments for or against something does not constitute hatred. 

 

B: The OP specifically asked people for their thoughts on the game, be they good or bad. This is entirely in keeping with the topic.

 

[Hayleyrose2323]

Hey ive been trying to figure this out but ive been getting mixed answers, did bethesda having anything to do with the making of this game? I have major respect for bethesda there my favorite game company and so far have not made any bad games in my opinion, and i love tom howard he's awesome, but yea....I thought zenimax was bethesda as well, im not too smart when it comes to this stuff lol

[FallenWarrior]

Hey ive been trying to figure this out but ive been getting mixed answers, did bethesda having anything to do with the making of this game? I have major respect for bethesda there my favorite game company and so far have not made any bad games in my opinion, and i love tom howard he's awesome, but yea....I thought zenimax was bethesda as well, im not too smart when it comes to this stuff lol

 

ZeniMax owns Bethesda, so ZeniMax Online Studios is a subdivision of the main company (their attempt at trying to "prove" that they can make games). As for Bethesda having anything to do with ESO, ZeniMax Online Studios claimed that they were working closely with Bethesda in regards to the lore.

 

[B0ss plz]

Don't compare Morrowind with ESO thats where you lost my respect for this topic, you have obvious never players Elder Scroll games.

 

That particular video from Angry Joe is spot on and shows exactly whats wrong with ESO compare to Solo Elder Scrolls serie.

Whoa whoa whoa! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't comparing Morrowind at all. I was just saying that that's my first ES game.

 

I know the lore perfectly, played Arena Daggerfall etc... yet I still liked ESO.

 

Just read closer next time you comment

[Vaelorian]

To me, ESO fails because it's core gameplay (the combat) is lesser compared to it's competitors; the PvE gameplay is incredibly boring, and the PvP doesn't fare much better. Couple this with microtransactions (the horse and race "upgrade") and a monthly fee in a game that already costs you 60$ to start playing and it's a no-sell.