problem with nexus?

[leddis3]

I don't think I have any "right", just that removing all access to a mod for no good reason is in my view petty and mean spirited and at the very least sites like the nexus should try to discourage such behaviour.

 

For example there was a beautiful necklace mod that used to be on the nexus.

About a year ago, the author set it to hidden with no explanation and it's been that way ever since even though this person is still part of the community.

So for what reason is this mod that's fully functional and already downloaded by many people taken down, and why do the nexus act so casually about it?

 

Now, I have this mod so it doesn't affect me directly, but it's a crying shame others can't have it.

[Grumpf]

The amount of content lost to communities due to modders leaving because their rights to their content were not being respected FAR exceeds the amount of content lost due to modders abandoning their content.

 

There's no place for sissies on the magic interweb. "Man it up' date=' grow a pair and stop bitching!" will I say to those with "baffled rights" you talked about here above.

 

I spent 3 years of my life modding, if someone wants to take my animations and make it a child male gay and horse porn mod I may become slightly disturbed but I won't cry like a 2 years old and delete everything like I've seen many times. Even here...

 

[u']So let's make it clear once and for all:[/u] The moment you mod for a commercial game, your work is public. Would you want to go with unreal engine or equivalent and create your GNU game, by all means. If not, go create your game company and I'll gladly pay for your product.

 

Meanwhile, grow up.

 

[this is adressed to the "modders" concerned by Astymma's remark, not to you bud!]

 

What do you think?

[Dex Luther]

The premise that a persons IP belongs in any way to the individuals of a community or to the community itself is self-entitlement. The "belongs to the community" argument behind that is is an individuals self-entitlement being masked by an attempt to appeal to community support. I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with that view' date=' but it's my view. For me, IP belongs to the creator and any restrictions they place on their IP should be respected. The amount of content lost to communities due to modders leaving because their rights to their content were not being respected FAR exceeds the amount of content lost due to modders abandoning their content.

[/quote']

 

Let me quote from the EULA you agree to when downloading and installing the Bethesda Construction Kit:

 

If You distribute or otherwise make available New Materials, You automatically grant to Bethesda Softworks the irrevocable, perpetual, royalty free, sublicensable right and license under all applicable copyrights and intellectual property rights laws

 

In short modders have no IP. Their mod belongs to the community just as much as the rest of any TES game.

 

If a modder can mod Whiterun or any piece of it in anyway they choose, then those same rights granted to him by Bethesda are also granted to any mod that is created and distributed.

 

"ur mods r belong to Bethesda."

 

EDIT: just one more reason to hate Nexus: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/892474-outdatedabandoned-mods/page__view__findpost__p__7216311

[Grumpf]

Well here was our conclusion. Taddaaaam!

 

Thanks Dex.

 

[astymma]

The amount of content lost to communities due to modders leaving because their rights to their content were not being respected FAR exceeds the amount of content lost due to modders abandoning their content.

 

There's no place for sissies on the magic interweb. "Man it up' date=' grow a pair and stop bitching!" will I say to those with "baffled rights" you talked about here above.

 

I spent 3 years of my life modding, if someone wants to take my animations and make it a child male gay and horse porn mod I may become slightly disturbed but I won't cry like a 2 years old and delete everything like I've seen many times. Even here...

 

[u']So let's make it clear once and for all:[/u] The moment you mod for a commercial game, your work is public. Would you want to go with unreal engine or equivalent and create your GNU game, by all means. If not, go create your game company and I'll gladly pay for your product.

 

Meanwhile, grow up.

 

[this is adressed to the "modders" concerned by Astymma's remark, not to you bud!]

 

What do you think?

 

Let me be perfectly clear... I actually agree that they should "man up". I really do. What I'm trying to explain is that I support IP rights in general.

 

Oh, and Dex, you seem to be having trouble with the difference between a license and copyright. Bethesda granted themselves license to use your content that is royalty and fee free. That has nothing to do with IP copyright. It simply means that if they wish to use your content, they don't have to pay you anything to use it. They can take your mod and feature it in an advertisement or a DLC or whatever and they don't owe you any licensing fees. It does not grant them any rights under copyright regarding ownership, just licensed use.

[wardminator]

Personally, I could care less what people do with my mods with one exception and that is taking my work and uploading it to another site regardless if they credit me or not. If I wanted it there, I would have put it there. If they want to take something I created and expand upon it, that is different as they at least have their own skin in the game at that point.

 

As for Bethesda's EULA agreement... meh. I think it shows Bethesda is all about making money and could really care less about the game itself. Bitching about that when you continue to buy and play their games anyway only makes you a hypocrite. Sure, it would be nice to get something back for all the hard work I've put into a mod, but if Bethesda does use any of my content in a game or DLC, that's still a feather in my cap. It would probably look pretty damn good on a resume.

[Jexsam]

There's a practical reason why pulling/hiding your mods because you want to quit is a dumb idea, though.

 

Put simply, once you put something out for public consumption of any kind on the internet, you lose control of it. You can no long police who uploads it where for their friends to snag. If it was out long enough, chances are it will propagate without your consent or knowledge, and there's jack all you can do about it.

 

The sensible choice is to accept that fact, ignore all communication about your mod, and let it stay were it is in whatever state it's in (unless it's broken and ruining peoples' games, in which case removing it is a public service).

 

As for respecting their wishes as to what you can and can't do with their mods, I agree to an extent. That extent being the reasonability of your stipulations.

 

Take, for example, the typical Usage and Permissions section of your average Gizmodian mod. Very lax, asking only for her name in the readme for credit and a simple message stating what it's being used in - as in, not a question of permission, merely a heads-up. She won't say no. This is a community-minded position, and a respectable one at that. The only caveat to her otherwise impeccable community-minded attitude is she refuses to mod for any body other than the one she uses, which is understandable in and of itself. Besides, it's not like you don't have full permission from the get-go to convert it.

 

Secondly, I present the terms of this semi-NSFW bellybutton piercing mod. This is an example of very reasonable, if strict, restrictions. This person is wise to the fact he/she cannot control what people do personally for their version, and asks that they be asked for permission as a form of quality control for other places the mod's contents might be used. Restrictive, perhaps, but wanting to maintain some level of quality is understandable if you take pride in your work. This is a terms of use I can respect.

 

Finally, your usual Slof terms - I have no readily available example as all of her original work is totally absent from Nexus (save for some older conversions from before she went batshit insane), but those of you around during Oblivion modding's middle years might be able to back me up on this - amounted to little more than "Nobody can change this in any way or upload it anywhere". So strict was she about this that she actively attacked any screenshot containing a conversion of her armors or outfits to any body that wasn't Robert's. This is what I like to refer to as "The Cockjuggling Thundercunt-style Terms of Use", and is completely reprehensible.

 

In short, I'll respect the modders' terms of use if the modder respects the community by not stonewalling us with dick-move restrictions. It's a two-way street, respect.

[Grumpf]

I back you up... I asked to use her "male tools" at some point and she wants her cawks to only be used on males... She's apparently turned on by male male interaction a bit like most of us are by female female... At first I didn't intended to use them for futa but only for the male player but in the end I chose not to use anything at all for safety reason...

 

At that time, CLS was small and her notoriety was very high.

 

So she was nice as I asked politely but had ridiculous attitude over some vertices. People trying to take her work were instabanned of course then she realized how douchy was the Nexus and left.

 

Conclusion: Nothing. There's no conclusion but a tragic display of moronic war from all parts... *Sigh*

[leddis3]

I've gotten the impression that Slof has become highly defensive over her works over the years due to some intolerant idiots.

Obviously she shouldn't have to deal with that just because her works sexify men as others do women but I think she goes too far the other way.

Personally I never understood the controversy, one type of exploitation is as good as the other I say.

 

Back on topic, well it's a modder's right to make what rules they wish for their mods.

However they shouldn't be immune from being called on it if they're being unreasonable, and should realise that the more tightly they try to control a mod, the more likely people will try to work around them.

Now this doesn't justify mod theft at all, however modders who are relaxed and community minded have far less problems with this.

[Dex Luther]

*sigh* I just received this in my email:

 

The file (Sexy Cleric Armour Upgrate Ebony Mech HD-6476-1.rar) violates the MediaFire Terms of Service. Due to it being distributed from your account, it has been removed. Also, a Strike has been placed against your account and can lead to a termination of service.

 

Check our policy violations page for more information.

 

Thank you for using MediaFire as your cloud based file sharing service provider.

 

Sincerely,

 

The MediaFire Team

 

What about that file violated Mediafire's TOS? The only intent was to have someone with the tools and the know-how to fix the gap on the hips for my personal use since the original author doesn't give a shit about his mods.

 

I can only guess that someone from the Nexus saw the file or my thread about it here, and submitted a copyright claim for it.

 

It's kinda sad that we live in an age with such amazing technology and creativity, yet people will purposely try to limit and chain it up like a dog with abused and outdated notions of 'Copyright'.

[Grumpf]

That's why we'll soon be able to host some files here and avoid that kind of douchy attitude. Now, please ask them for further explanation as I'd like to know.

[Dex Luther]

That's why we'll soon be able to host some files here and avoid that kind of douchy attitude. Now' date=' please ask them for further explanation as I'd like to know.[/color']

 

 

Yep just like on Youtube, the first thing I did was submit a counter claim.

 

It's such a beautiful armor. It sucks that the Nexus people have to act this way.

[Grumpf]

I don't see why Mediafire will give a shit about it hence, I'm eager to see what answer you're going to receive. If any...

[leddis3]

Mediafire has been paranoid ever since megaupload got nuked, so any troll with a rod up their ass can mumble "copyright" in their direction and they'll probably take action.

Rather unfortunate state of events.

[Dex Luther]

Mediafire has been paranoid ever since megaupload got nuked' date=' so any troll with a rod up their ass can mumble "copyright" in their direction and they'll probably take action.

Rather unfortunate state of events.

[/quote']

 

Well filing false DMCA's is just as illegal as breaking copyright, sooo yeah.

[gregathit]

Mediafire has been purging all files with the letters "sex" in them for about 3 odd weeks. I am "guessing" that this is merely their blind leading the blind way of removing any and all porn from the site.

[Dex Luther]

Mediafire has been purging all files with the letters "sex" in them for about 3 odd weeks. I am "guessing" that this is merely their blind leading the blind way of removing any and all porn from the site.

 

Death by automated system. I should maybe just try removing sexy from the filename. Still not something I deserve a strike for.

[Grumpf]

Still not something I deserve a strike for.

You're suffering from a severe case of anthropomorphism by giving animals and tools sentient intentions. Do what you have to do to make it work and don't give it a second though. Dealing with censorship is like dealing with a loose plank: arguing with it will not work

[lemonbalm]

Another long-assed blog post by you-know-who basically describing how he'll use bandwidth throttling to punish people who use adblock and who don't participate by endorsing files. Meanwhile, the cult congregation kisses his ass in agreement. (And yes, his site so he can do what he wants, but the FILES are not his.)

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?showtopic=906602

[gregathit]

Well the "punishment" is only a small knock on your download speed so I don't think it is all that terrible.  While I despise many things about the Nexus and how it operates, I find it hard to argue with what he is trying to say.  For the nexus to remain up and operating the money has to come from somewhere after all.......

[lemonbalm]

Well the "punishment" is only a small knock on your download speed so I don't think it is all that terrible.  While I despise many things about the Nexus and how it operates, I find it hard to argue with what he is trying to say.  For the nexus to remain up and operating the money has to come from somewhere after all.......

My personal belief is that people shouldn't expect anything from their userbase-ie if you can't take care of the site without resorting to those kinds of tactics, you have no business running the site in the first place. I see it everywhere; people wanting donations and placing ads on their personal sites and blogs as well, and it's getting old. The "money has to come from somewhere" argument is old.  It's a choice whether to put the site up, or to offer hosting. Why is it my job to pay for someone else's hobby? Why is it my job to pay for Dark0ne to use other people's files to start a business?

 

Of course I'm not talking about signing up for some service. If people want to pay for added benefits, that's their choice. It's also the site owner's perogative to place all the ads they want, but it's the attitude that gets to me, and the attempt to control what others are doing with manipulation and guilt about how awful the bills are and how the users are supposed to help. It's the "we're entitled to make you click/view ads" mentality. I block ads, but it's because I have gotten viruses and malware from them before, and I don't feel the least bit guilty about it. When sites can guarantee the safety of my computer and my personal data, or clean up the mess that can be caused by identity theft, then maybe I'll change my attitude. That's just my take on it.

 

Another point is that he's made quite clear in this and in previous blog posts in just what low esteem he holds adblock users. This may be a mild step, no big deal, but it is a punitive step. My question is, what's next, an outright ban to those people found to be using adblockers, or just blocking the ability of anyone with an adblocker to access the site? I guess what gets under my skin the most is how people are rushing to agree and pat him on the back no matter what he does or says.

[gregathit]

Well there will always be butt kissers in this world, so that is just part of life.  The way I interpreted it, he is fine with folks using addblocker for a cleaner experience, he just points out that if everyone did, then the nexus would go the way of the dodo bird.  Pretty straight forward there.

 

The nexus is not the same thing as a personal blog or site so I fail to see any logical reason to compare the two.  Folks have all sorts of reasons for doing what they do.  Some reasons are legit and some are ridiculous.  Pretty much the way it goes with everything in life.

 

As to them footing the bill so that you can use their service to download files at your whim, well I just fail to see how anyone can argue with a small knock on download speeds for those that refuse to either turn off their addblocker for the site or join up.  A small speed knock is no real penalty for getting a free service.  Now I can understand the part about what is next, BUT there is no point in rattling the sabre until we see that there IS something to be upset about.

 

I think you are letting your rage against the machine color your vision on this.  While that is understandable if you have been burned by them in the past, it does distort things.   Or maybe I am just full of shit.  Either way the bottom line I think his blog is pretty straightforward (even if it is FAR to wordy) and fair to everyone.    .........well except for dial up folks.....but who gives a rats ass about them anyways.......

[lemonbalm]

A small speed knock is no real penalty for getting a free service.

You responded while I was editing my post. I agree on this point, and I do use some other sites that expect something in return for their "free" service (Mediafire and its ads for example, or in the past, free web hosting). I do not use sites that detect my adblocker and put up a wall. I don't even care to try to circumvent because at that point they are trying to directly control my online habits and that is what I take exception to. The ads themselves are not the issue. My contention over the whole blog post over there is the attitude. It has always been about the attitude and the use of guilt to try and manipulate and control people. If you look at the comments, how many are or will sheepishly admit that they used adblockers but have since disabled it just for the Nexus after reading the blog post?

 

I think you are letting your rage against the machine color your vision on this.  While that is understandable if you have been burned by them in the past, it does distort things.

I have not actually been burned by them. As I said in previous posts to this thread, I've never been banned and never been warned. I have, however been burned in real life by people who exhibit similar attitudes to them, so I will concede this point. Bitterness about certain things in my life has left me looking for the writing on the wall. We'll see how it turns out, but as I said, all of this is just my opinion. Thanks for letting me vent about it here.

[gregathit]

 

A small speed knock is no real penalty for getting a free service.

You responded while I was editing my post. I agree on this point, and I do use some other sites that expect something in return for their "free" service (Mediafire and its ads for example, or in the past, free web hosting). I do not use sites that detect my adblocker and put up a wall. I don't even care to try to circumvent because at that point they are trying to directly control my online habits and that is what I take exception to. The ads themselves are not the issue. My contention over the whole blog post over there is the attitude. It has always been about the attitude and the use of guilt to try and manipulate and control people. If you look at the comments, how many are or will sheepishly admit that they used adblockers but have since disabled it just for the Nexus after reading the blog post?

 

Yea, I do understand what you are trying to say.  I do agree that guilt tripping folks is bad form.  Unfortunately I don't see any alternative other than a paid membership site which would suck.  As for me, my addblocker will stay on and I'll take the download speed hit.  My computer is on 24\7 anyway so I can just wait until I head off to bed to grab any large files.   As to the butt kissers......yea, there just aren't enough bullets for all of them so what can you do?????

 

 

 

I think you are letting your rage against the machine color your vision on this.  While that is understandable if you have been burned by them in the past, it does distort things.

I have not actually been burned by them. As I said in previous posts to this thread, I've never been banned and never been warned. I have, however been burned in real life by people who exhibit similar attitudes to them, so I will concede this point. Bitterness about certain things in my life has left me looking for the writing on the wall. We'll see how it turns out, but as I said, all of this is just my opinion. Thanks for letting me vent about it here.

 

Every human being is influenced by their experiences in life, so this is nothing to be alarmed at.  We all (speaking to me here not you) just need to be aware that our view is not the "only" view, nor is it always really the way things actually are.

 

Hey, you are always welcome to vent and say what is on your mind! 

[leddis3]

Another long-assed blog post by you-know-who basically describing how he'll use bandwidth throttling to punish people who use adblock and who don't participate by endorsing files. Meanwhile, the cult congregation kisses his ass in agreement. (And yes, his site so he can do what he wants, but the FILES are not his.)

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?showtopic=906602

 

Yeah, let malware exploits through ads infect the nexus over 5 times and then bitch about people using adblock!

Boohoo!