What Do You Think of Merging NMM with MO?

[PsychoMachina]

So I was reading Robin's latest State of the Union Address and the subject was Nexus Mod Manager.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12250/?

 

I use Mod Organizer so I was more interested in what the nexus community had to say.  There seems to be a (slow) growing interest in merging NMM with MO.  Personally, I dread the idea considering I stopped using NMM about 2 years ago and love the versatility of MO and the fact that adding and removing mods is not a crap-shoot.

 

So the question is:  Is this a good idea, a bad idea, or you really don't care.

 

 

[Nite_Star]

woohoo 1st vote.. Do I get a cookie . MO is good on its own  maybe it can do what NMM can not.

 

TBH, I would never have had Nexus host my MO, I would have found a Sexy Decent site like.......Lets say LL haha,

I am transferring my mods over to MO, and leaving NMM @ the finish line. MO is getting more and more attention and I find it more user friendly and being honest slightly better coding...If I try to install a mod let's say 900mb zipped mod NMM mainly locks, freezes or crashes, yet MO is slighlty slower on that size mod BUT get's the job done. So to say emerging the 2.....Nah MO is good on its own and is shining through without being shadowed by NMM.

[PsychoMachina]

Cookies and donuts in staff lunch rooom.

[bob11]

Dear God, no.  Why would I want MO to degrade by integrating it with NMM?  What exactly does NMM offer other better (?) nexus compatibility and being in perpetual beta?

[cornbreadtm]

Is modding really so hard for people? I mean I've used Wrye Bash, NMM, OBMM, FOMM, and MO they all do the same thing in the end. Wrye bash and MO handle things a bit differently but today most people don't just make a mod and not package it correctly like how it was 6~10 years ago so now a days mod managers are about equal to manual installs for organized people.

 

Honestly Wrye Bash is probably the easiest, only problem with it is that modders and users would need 2 more brain cells to package stuff for it and that's asking too much.

 

Personally I don't like MO, not because it isn't good but because it treats you like you don't know what you're doing. When you have been modding as long as me, you can install 200 mods at once and have everything work correctly in game on the first try. MO keeps the kid gloves on the entire time you're using it, guiding you around like you're an idiot. I guess it's okay if it's your first mod manager but if you used anything else, it instantly feels constricting.

 

When I first started modding Oblivion Wrye Bash's bain installer seemed far to complex for me so I used OBMM. I fucked up a thousand times over, and my game crashed constantly. So much so that I stopped playing it after 4 weeks only got 80 hours of actual in game time.

So I went on to mod other games since most of those games didn't have mod managers so I learned about manual moddings ups and downs. I went on to mod Morrowind, Skyrim, FONV, FO3, KoToR, KoToR 2, and NWN2 (which is the game I first started modding with).

Today I can use Wrye Bash with no problem I can Identify problems just off of their effects and know if it's an esp error, texture, mesh or just and install error. It not only helped me but lets me be able to provide support for others on this site and others off of very little information.

So It's not that MO is bad it's just that I doesn't let you make the same mistakes in modding that everything else lets you make. It's extremely hard to learn from it since it handles installations completely different from traditional modding.

 

But I vote YES cause I tried NMM's profiling beta attempt and I can safely say that they suck donkey nuts at it. Those guys need some serious help on all fronts, Nexus as a whole is pretty shit right now compared to when it was just TESnexus.

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

NMM is the biggest programmed piece of shit ive ever seen. and since you claim to have stopped using nmm and still care about making a poll and looking up badman-and-robins posts i wonder if youre a nexus-spy ... are you... lord trigger happy? *suspicious*

 

my poll vote: no way!

 

but, tbh, i in general install only manually. i consider myself to do better work than a machine that runs down codelines that cause devastation on my game and my nerves when the mod its supposed to install feeds the proggy with stuff it cant digest. and before i ruin my pc with automatic stuff and then blame the evil modders i do it myself and in worst case get angry about myself for being drunk or so when tinkering with mods.

 

finally yeah, the nmm needs help, but with their asshole moderation and constant downtimes (not mentioning the awesome story of ddos-ing their own asses) i say let those bastards go to hell. cheers

[wayra]

Every since I discovered the MO's mod folder, I have been finding myself manually installing everything into the MO folder.

 

Also, what does NMM offer that MO doesn't? I don't really see any point of merging the 2 together.

[gvman3670]

Every since I discovered the MO's mod folder, I have been finding myself manually installing everything into the MO folder.

 

Also, what does NMM offer that MO doesn't? I don't really see any point of merging the 2 together.

 

That was my thought. MO already does exactly what NMM does, doesn't it? I mean that it links right up to Nexus and downloads mods for you like NMM does.

[shadowlord445]

Don't care.  Using NMM right now, and the only real issues I've had with it are shitty servers.

[Duoleb The Chosen]

well i use NMM because i want to something easier to use

 

i deleted MO after 15 minutes of rage trying to config Oblivion, and MO inst compatible with OMOD

 

the only thing that bugs me is that the servers are Balls now due to Darkone's incompetence of merging servers and adding a shitload of games who doesn't need mods

 

 

[Aethyri]

Whats sad for me is I've never even heard of some of these before now. I've always used NMM. Since Fallout New Vegas. I haven't been aware of Mod Organizer or some of the others, so it really was an issue of lacking knowledge for me.

 

Still, with nothing to compare to, I'd have to say NMM can be a bit frustrating at times, but I've never had such a problem that I had to go look for another system. So at least for me, it works, so I've never had to change out of it and seek other options. I have noticed modders and users going to steam though, and that's alright I guess, but overall, I'm not terribly fond of Steam in any way shape or form. Between those two, I'd rather keep using NMM.

 

Still use BOSS and WB to verify load orders and copy lists, but nothing besides that. Once again, a lack of knowledge otherwise.

[gvman3670]

I also agree that NMM works (nearly all the time, not mentioning server issues).

 

But I also manually download all my mods then use NMM in offline mode (updates turned off, too). NMM lets you "add mod from file" and that's the route I take. Plus some mods I just manually install without NMM anyway.

 

MO is a bit tedious for most I think. I have it and have played with it to become accustomed to it's functions. It's just not something very user friendly for the new or casual mod installer.

[ToJKa]

Don't care, i use Wrye Bash

[EternalDamned]

NMM is good for quick checking if certain mods have been updated on Nexus. But it certainly has some problems. Like it will occasionally re-install a mod I know I uninstalled! Activate mods I never activated, and only soft installed to check out how they were made, etc. Now if NMM were to merge with MO and use MO's folder structure with NMM's updating and fix a few of the other NMM bugs. That could be a very good thing. But I won't hold my breath!

[judge0]

Currently using MO, with BUM, SUM, BOSS, TES5Edit, Wrye Bash, etc

 

The virtual filesystem takes some getting used to at first.

 

MO lets you set priorities on files regardless of load order - NMM makes you hunt for the offending overwrites manually.

 

A lot of mods can be added manually (just create the folder in it's mods folder).

 

For example, I have four folders just for the Ningheim Race - each with it's own separate body.

Switch bodies with two clicks and start SKSE - let's see NMM do that.

 

Never, EVER have to reinstall Skyrim now, maybe rerun the launcher to change graphics settings.

 

FOMM did a better job til the Nexus staff crippled it.

 

I think NMM's days are numbered.

[hryh23k9823u]

What do you think of merging dog shit with a delicious cake?

[gokuzeny]

I also have used NMM and like some of the others the only issue ive really had is the servers, other than that it does just what i need, I have tried MO and I like some of its features however I agree it is not very user friendly and I had more frustrations with it than with NMM, so for now im sticking with NMM, however if they do decide to merge them I hope they keep the more user friendliness of NMM to use some of the better features of MO. Also they should fix the server issues before they merge anything.

[Corpus Vile]

While I do think Nexus Mod Manager is a funny name for a steaming pile of shit, I still don't want any of that in my MO, thanks.

[judge0]

While I do think Nexus Mod Manager is a funny name for a steaming pile of shit, I still don't want any of that in my MO, thanks.

 

lol . . .

 

May I have your permission to use THAT as my sig?

 

[Veladarius]

I will probably end up switching to MO in the not too distant future. Of all the mod managers I have used NMM is probably the least useful of them all and with the upgrades (????) they have done to their site it just gets worse as they go. The only thing keeping me with NMM is that I don't want to spend a day or two reinstalling all the mods I have. I think the only positive thing I can say about the NMM is it is better than what Bethesda / Valve came up with. I would say to keep the two managers separate unless the people at the Nexus want to hand over the NMM to the people that made MO.

[Taskmaster]

I had actually got convinced to use NMM about a year and a half ago, even though I didn't want to at the time(I'm not a Nexus fan anymore, it was better as TESNexus and I'm not being a hipster about it). I remember using the Oblivion Mod Manager and FOMM and things like that, then when Skyrim came out I was just manually installing and using Wyre Bash. I got a lot invested into NMM at the moment, with so many plugins installed and everything being in a great load order and working as problem free as I can get it, but if I were to go clean slate or clean install, I'd probably just use Wyre Bash(it starts instantly and seems to be less of a resource hog, why does NMM take so long to start?).

 

Also, I'm unsure about the merging. I've heard things going wrong with MO, too. Where users files all get thrown in at once and screw around with their entire structuring.

 

On one hand, they could help each other out and improve on both, creating a great mod manager/organizer that could be the benefit of everyone involved. Making things possibly better, faster, and more modular for all. And to those that have things invested in either one, can easily transition if they merge.

 

On the other hand, NMM feels like corporate trash to me now, and I'd honestly hate for them to swallow yet even more shit - in attempts to "monopolize" the modding scene and community. Soon they'd be forcing updates and other things like that, maybe even restricting features that we'd grow used to, unless we had premium membership and other types of possible slippery slope crap. All sorts of things could happen in order to keep tabs on the user or even force ads into the manager and make us stay logged in and online with it, etc. 

[gvman3670]

NMM takes so long to start because it logs onto the Nexus servers by default.

[judge0]

I hope Tannis takes the time to help nexus fix that busted NMM manager, but i don't see why they need to be merged. From what i can gather Darkone and Tannis have been communicating for sometime about NMM using some of MO's features so hopefully if they just copy the better features from MO there will be no need to combine them.

 

Better yet, park NMM on the dusty top shelf of the janitors closet and just use MO instead . . .

[LaEspada]

I will probably end up switching to MO in the not too distant future. Of all the mod managers I have used NMM is probably the least useful of them all and with the upgrades (????) they have done to their site it just gets worse as they go. The only thing keeping me with NMM is that I don't want to spend a day or two reinstalling all the mods I have. I think the only positive thing I can say about the NMM is it is better than what Bethesda / Valve came up with. I would say to keep the two managers separate unless the people at the Nexus want to hand over the NMM to the people that made MO.

 

I think there's a feature to import your NMM mods.

But even if you take 1-2 days reinstalling, I'd highly recommend it.

Your game will come out to be 50 times more stable and

it's extremely modular and customizable.

It's super easy to fix mods if something breaks.

It's easy to upgrade mods without uninstalling 3-4 other mods. (I'm looking at you static mesh replacement mod).

your Skyrim Directory stays completely clean.

You don't need as much space on your computer since you don't keep 2 copies of the same mod like NMM does. (one installed in the skyrim directory and the actual compressed files you download)

 

And MO is much more stable without the lame crashing every ten minutes NMM has.

[Monsto Brukes]

Is modding really so hard for people? I mean I've used Wrye Bash, NMM, OBMM, FOMM, and MO they all do the same thing in the end. Wrye bash and MO handle things a bit differently but today most people don't just make a mod and not package it correctly like how it was 6~10 years ago so now a days mod managers are about equal to manual installs for organized people.

 

Honestly Wrye Bash is probably the easiest, only problem with it is that modders and users would need 2 more brain cells to package stuff for it and that's asking too much.

 

Personally I don't like MO, not because it isn't good but because it treats you like you don't know what you're doing. When you have been modding as long as me, you can install 200 mods at once and have everything work correctly in game on the first try. MO keeps the kid gloves on the entire time you're using it, guiding you around like you're an idiot. I guess it's okay if it's your first mod manager but if you used anything else, it instantly feels constricting.

 

When I first started modding Oblivion Wrye Bash's bain installer seemed far to complex for me so I used OBMM. I fucked up a thousand times over, and my game crashed constantly. So much so that I stopped playing it after 4 weeks only got 80 hours of actual in game time.

So I went on to mod other games since most of those games didn't have mod managers so I learned about manual moddings ups and downs. I went on to mod Morrowind, Skyrim, FONV, FO3, KoToR, KoToR 2, and NWN2 (which is the game I first started modding with).

Today I can use Wrye Bash with no problem I can Identify problems just off of their effects and know if it's an esp error, texture, mesh or just and install error. It not only helped me but lets me be able to provide support for others on this site and others off of very little information.

So It's not that MO is bad it's just that I doesn't let you make the same mistakes in modding that everything else lets you make. It's extremely hard to learn from it since it handles installations completely different from traditional modding.

 

But I vote YES cause I tried NMM's profiling beta attempt and I can safely say that they suck donkey nuts at it. Those guys need some serious help on all fronts, Nexus as a whole is pretty shit right now compared to when it was just TESnexus.

 

I built my first pc in 1992. I was working for CompUSA, I pieced together a bunch of close-out parts and built a SCREAMING 486-66, 4mb (meg) ram, 80 mb (meg) hd and a bunch of other "high end" pc crap for the time and walked out of the tech room with what would have been a $2k machin for ~$700. 

 

In 2005 I bought my first Dell from outlet.dell.com. Why? because after 10+ years of being an awesome builder, I was REALLY tired of it. Builds are not hard at all, but a canned machine saves me soooo much downline hassle. It's like owning a house vs renting. If you own, you have to pay for everything. If you rent and the furnace goes out, all you do is pick up the phone "furnace is out" and you're done. If I buy a dell, I troubleshoot then I pick up the phone "Video is out." and they send me not just a mobo but a guy to put it in.

 

You seem to feel that Mod Organizer doesn't give the flexibility to make learning mistakes . . . while I disagree with that statement in principle, my main point here is that most skyrim players don't want to learn jack shit. . . they just want palm trees, blue ocean and sand in skyrim or tits that bounce all over or bears instead of spiders or . . . bondage and rape fucking. They don't care how it works, they just want it to work. If they have to drag a line-item from here to there in order for it to work right, that's about all anyone really needs to know about load order.

 

Saying it's better to do it the hard way "because you learn more" is like teaching calculus with only the 4 basic operators. Is like installing windows only after using fdisk to zero-out the drive. Is like Is like only driving 80's corvettes because it's a better driving experience. . . (ok that last one I agree with but you prob get the pic.) it may be better, but only marginally in any way you could measure it, and imperceptibly to anyone that just wants to play the game. And an imperceptible difference is the same as no difference.

 

Mod Organizer is worse than NMM in zero ways. It's a modern interface, it uses modern software methodology, and it adheres to basic windows conventions. NMM is brutal, in the classic definition of the word. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong or a moron or whatever. . . my point is that to most of the people that play the game, "learning mod installation" isn't high on their list. I get that it helped you quite a bit, but the avg mod player would rather just load their 12 mods and play.

 

 

To speak to the question of the thread, about Mod Organizer the blog states

 

we're having to do it in a completely different way because the scope of NMM, which has to support modding for multiple different game engines and not just GameBryo, is much larger.

 

If the developer of Mod Organzer was interested in the slightest in making it compatible with non-beth games, he could do it in a heartbeat. It builds a virtual directory in ram, presents that dir as fact while it starts the game, then stays resident (tiny) while the game loads and runs. This could EEAASSIILLY be done for Starbound or X-Rebirth or HalfLife 2. It is an engine-agnostic method from the very beginning. Matter of fact, I'll bet that with some user-hacking, it could probably be done it right now.

 

If I were an effective voice in the ear of the MO developer, I'd tell him to either pull the source of his app outright (it's open source), or put a highly restrictive open license on it. Something where nexus people couldn't just put their logo on it and 2nd thought passing credits on an about page. Something where they'd have to make credit highly visible. I might even go so far to suggest that he close source completely and sell a license to them. I believe that, at some point in the near future, unless they're completely in the dark, they're going to want to change the methodology of NMM, and he'd better well shield MO before that point.