What Do You Think of Merging NMM with MO?

[jussmee]

didnt even know what mo was. might have to check it out. although i already have my skyrim set up. if i could add more than 255 plugins i wouldi try to keep at most 154 just to be sure. i dont ctd though

 

i used fomod when i used to play fallout nv, nmm was a step ahead but the servers are shit now and alot of good modders now are scattered and many abandoned works also. nmm works fine, i wanted to mod oblivion so bad also but i had to wryr bash a mod called modular beautiful people and it was a pain. i had easier time with fallout and skyrim,

 

one thing that does annoy me about nmm is that sometimes i get stuck if i have start installing by accident more than 255 plugins and then it will get stuck warning about the limit which is annoying,

 

few times i had ctds for no reason at start where i had to search online for fix, but in general its fine. i just really hate those two problems i listed.

[Rez Delnava]

 

 

*snip*

 

I built my first pc in 1992. I was working for CompUSA, I pieced together a bunch of close-out parts and built a SCREAMING 486-66, 4mb (meg) ram, 80 mb (meg) hd and a bunch of other "high end" pc crap for the time and walked out of the tech room with what would have been a $2k machin for ~$700. 

 

In 2005 I bought my first Dell from outlet.dell.com. Why? because after 10+ years of being an awesome builder, I was REALLY tired of it. Builds are not hard at all, but a canned machine saves me soooo much downline hassle. It's like owning a house vs renting. If you own, you have to pay for everything. If you rent and the furnace goes out, all you do is pick up the phone "furnace is out" and you're done. If I buy a dell, I troubleshoot then I pick up the phone "Video is out." and they send me not just a mobo but a guy to put it in.

 

You seem to feel that Mod Organizer doesn't give the flexibility to make learning mistakes . . . while I disagree with that statement in principle, my main point here is that most skyrim players don't want to learn jack shit. . . they just want palm trees, blue ocean and sand in skyrim or tits that bounce all over or bears instead of spiders or . . . bondage and rape fucking. They don't care how it works, they just want it to work. If they have to drag a line-item from here to there in order for it to work right, that's about all anyone really needs to know about load order.

 

Saying it's better to do it the hard way "because you learn more" is like teaching calculus with only the 4 basic operators. Is like installing windows only after using fdisk to zero-out the drive. Is like Is like only driving 80's corvettes because it's a better driving experience. . . (ok that last one I agree with but you prob get the pic.) it may be better, but only marginally in any way you could measure it, and imperceptibly to anyone that just wants to play the game. And an imperceptible difference is the same as no difference.

 

Mod Organizer is worse than NMM in zero ways. It's a modern interface, it uses modern software methodology, and it adheres to basic windows conventions. NMM is brutal, in the classic definition of the word. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong or a moron or whatever. . . my point is that to most of the people that play the game, "learning mod installation" isn't high on their list. I get that it helped you quite a bit, but the avg mod player would rather just load their 12 mods and play.

 

 

To speak to the question of the thread, about Mod Organizer the blog states

 

we're having to do it in a completely different way because the scope of NMM, which has to support modding for multiple different game engines and not just GameBryo, is much larger.

 

If the developer of Mod Organzer was interested in the slightest in making it compatible with non-beth games, he could do it in a heartbeat. It builds a virtual directory in ram, presents that dir as fact while it starts the game, then stays resident (tiny) while the game loads and runs. This could EEAASSIILLY be done for Starbound or X-Rebirth or HalfLife 2. It is an engine-agnostic method from the very beginning. Matter of fact, I'll bet that with some user-hacking, it could probably be done it right now.

 

If I were an effective voice in the ear of the MO developer, I'd tell him to either pull the source of his app outright (it's open source), or put a highly restrictive open license on it. Something where nexus people couldn't just put their logo on it and 2nd thought passing credits on an about page. Something where they'd have to make credit highly visible. I might even go so far to suggest that he close source completely and sell a license to them. I believe that, at some point in the near future, unless they're completely in the dark, they're going to want to change the methodology of NMM, and he'd better well shield MO before that point.

 

 

 

repeating this for emphasis:

If the developer of Mod Organzer was interested in the slightest in making it compatible with non-beth games, he could do it in a heartbeat. It builds a virtual directory in ram, presents that dir as fact while it starts the game, then stays resident (tiny) while the game loads and runs. This could EEAASSIILLY be done for Starbound or X-Rebirth or HalfLife 2. It is an engine-agnostic method from the very beginning. Matter of fact, I'll bet that with some user-hacking, it could probably be done it right now.

The man with the loud profile pic and sig. speaks the truth. The agnostic methods used by MO are so very easy to use on everything that its a wonder why NMM has not just gutted MO's code already and put a NMM branded shell on top. Its also a wonder why Steam hasn't taken this code either.

 

If Tannis got himself a nice little website of his own to host MO on, released a series of plugins (or allowed users to upload their own plugins) that makes MO work for a specific game...  open modding up to the masses without compromising the game's install data integrity... I'd vote for that to be Steam GreenLight'd.

 

 

And in regard to MO and other tools limiting learning potential, I think thats a bullshit standpoint.  If people want to learn, they will learn; if not, they usually try at all cost not to learn and will remain ignorant.

Contrary to limiting learning, I think that MO actually gives users more confidence to try to learn. With the virtualization, people can be confident in trying something radical, something new, something experimental, and when it doesn't work just (if you're using MO right) uncheck the mod in the list and everything goes back to what it was before you started.

[Monsto Brukes]

 and when it doesn't work just (if you're using MO right) uncheck the mod in the list and everything goes back to what it was before you started.

 

or do like I do, and go back to your main profile. you know... the one with all the mods you normally use, all set up, all ready to go, taking all of about 4 seconds to complete such a profile change because it doesn't have to do any drive thrashing.

 

that's how I test HDT, that's how I play Tundra Defense, that's how I test my own mod (yes, one). I create a new profile and set it up as needed.

[Corpus Vile]

 

While I do think Nexus Mod Manager is a funny name for a steaming pile of shit, I still don't want any of that in my MO, thanks.

 

lol . . .

 

May I have your permission to use THAT as my sig?

 

 

By all means, you don't need to ask.

[DespairSyndrome]

I think that up till now I still don't quite understand the antagonism between NMM, MO, Wrye Bash users and so on. It's kind of like a miniature version of the console wars, with warring tribes declaring superiority over each other in that order. If I had to guess, not many people use 100+ mods and only use two dozen or so at once, so excessive mod placement with tools isn't needed.

 

The thing is that NMM works. Grudgingly, barely, and occasionally DDoSing their own servers, but it promises two-click installs and it delivers. That's the first thing people see when they sign up for the biggest modding site for Skyrim. People are invested in NMM, have better knowledge of NMM because it is simpler and more prominently featured. I think the profiles feature that OM offers is sort of like the tabbing function for browsers. When Firefox first popularized it, it was amazing, but soon enough everyone caught on to it and it became a core feature. Did it bridge the gap between IE and FF? Not really, IE didn't need the push, and people who were invested in FF already were using it.

 

In order for a product to be favored over another, it has to be significantly better than it's rivals. Bringing back the browser analogy again, Chrome is strangely popular despite being the latest of the three to be released. This change obviously didn't happen overnight, it wasn't too long ago when I remembered that Chrome was constantly crashing and impossible to use. But they fixed it, and it uses far less memory than FF, with all the features it does. Is having a data folder clear of stuff good for stability? Perhaps, but the Skyrim engine is prone to CTDs so often, it is difficult to tell in the end.

[cornbreadtm]

 

Is modding really so hard for people? I mean I've used Wrye Bash, NMM, OBMM, FOMM, and MO they all do the same thing in the end. Wrye bash and MO handle things a bit differently but today most people don't just make a mod and not package it correctly like how it was 6~10 years ago so now a days mod managers are about equal to manual installs for organized people.

 

Honestly Wrye Bash is probably the easiest, only problem with it is that modders and users would need 2 more brain cells to package stuff for it and that's asking too much.

 

Personally I don't like MO, not because it isn't good but because it treats you like you don't know what you're doing. When you have been modding as long as me, you can install 200 mods at once and have everything work correctly in game on the first try. MO keeps the kid gloves on the entire time you're using it, guiding you around like you're an idiot. I guess it's okay if it's your first mod manager but if you used anything else, it instantly feels constricting.

 

When I first started modding Oblivion Wrye Bash's bain installer seemed far to complex for me so I used OBMM. I fucked up a thousand times over, and my game crashed constantly. So much so that I stopped playing it after 4 weeks only got 80 hours of actual in game time.

So I went on to mod other games since most of those games didn't have mod managers so I learned about manual moddings ups and downs. I went on to mod Morrowind, Skyrim, FONV, FO3, KoToR, KoToR 2, and NWN2 (which is the game I first started modding with).

Today I can use Wrye Bash with no problem I can Identify problems just off of their effects and know if it's an esp error, texture, mesh or just and install error. It not only helped me but lets me be able to provide support for others on this site and others off of very little information.

So It's not that MO is bad it's just that I doesn't let you make the same mistakes in modding that everything else lets you make. It's extremely hard to learn from it since it handles installations completely different from traditional modding.

 

But I vote YES cause I tried NMM's profiling beta attempt and I can safely say that they suck donkey nuts at it. Those guys need some serious help on all fronts, Nexus as a whole is pretty shit right now compared to when it was just TESnexus.

 

 

I built my first pc in 1992. I was working for CompUSA, I pieced together a bunch of close-out parts and built a SCREAMING 486-66, 4mb (meg) ram, 80 mb (meg) hd and a bunch of other "high end" pc crap for the time and walked out of the tech room with what would have been a $2k machin for ~$700. 

 

In 2005 I bought my first Dell from outlet.dell.com. Why? because after 10+ years of being an awesome builder, I was REALLY tired of it. Builds are not hard at all, but a canned machine saves me soooo much downline hassle. It's like owning a house vs renting. If you own, you have to pay for everything. If you rent and the furnace goes out, all you do is pick up the phone "furnace is out" and you're done. If I buy a dell, I troubleshoot then I pick up the phone "Video is out." and they send me not just a mobo but a guy to put it in.

 

You seem to feel that Mod Organizer doesn't give the flexibility to make learning mistakes . . . while I disagree with that statement in principle, my main point here is that most skyrim players don't want to learn jack shit. . . they just want palm trees, blue ocean and sand in skyrim or tits that bounce all over or bears instead of spiders or . . . bondage and rape fucking. They don't care how it works, they just want it to work. If they have to drag a line-item from here to there in order for it to work right, that's about all anyone really needs to know about load order.

 

Saying it's better to do it the hard way "because you learn more" is like teaching calculus with only the 4 basic operators. Is like installing windows only after using fdisk to zero-out the drive. Is like Is like only driving 80's corvettes because it's a better driving experience. . . (ok that last one I agree with but you prob get the pic.) it may be better, but only marginally in any way you could measure it, and imperceptibly to anyone that just wants to play the game. And an imperceptible difference is the same as no difference.

 

Mod Organizer is worse than NMM in zero ways. It's a modern interface, it uses modern software methodology, and it adheres to basic windows conventions. NMM is brutal, in the classic definition of the word. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong or a moron or whatever. . . my point is that to most of the people that play the game, "learning mod installation" isn't high on their list. I get that it helped you quite a bit, but the avg mod player would rather just load their 12 mods and play.

 

 

Yeah... to bad there is no dell version of modding. And when you make a mistake you can't call someone to come over and fix it for you. You get to hop on a forum and ask some to try to explain something that you have 0 experience with, on how to fix you problem.

 

I mean I wish there was an easier way of learning but there isn't and the fact that MO stops people from learning some of this has been the source of me being unable to relay information to people in an understandable way. I say "find your mesh folder" they hear, "whaa-whaa-whaa-whaa." Then proceed to give up and blame everyone but themselves.

 

And finding a "avg mod player" that only installs 12 mods and that's it, is a golden flying pig.

 

But of course I personally don't care, cause I lose nothing. I could mod with a potato and an clothes hanger. Which ironically is what NMM is made from.

[OnlyHazeRemains]

I dont get why all the cool kids keep bashing on NMM. What exactly does it do >WRONG< ?

 

I mean, by design and concept MO uses the smarter technique of the two, but NMM still does the job. Why is everyone pissing on it? Cause its hip to bash everything Nexus related?

Im using it for 2 years now and while it sometimes just crashes and has a few quirks here and there, it still does what its supposed to do.

[cornbreadtm]

I dont get why all the cool kids keep bashing on NMM. What exactly does it do >WRONG< ?

 

I mean, by design and concept MO uses the smarter technique of the two, but NMM still does the job. Why is everyone pissing on it? Cause its hip to bash everything Nexus related?

Im using it for 2 years now and while it sometimes just crashes and has a few quirks here and there, it still does what its supposed to do.

 

Yeah, it works about the same for me too. Too bad everything else works better. I honestly only still use it so I can endorse mods easier. Which is one thing it does... did better than MO, it's starting to suck now. It's better to just go to the site and hit download history, you get less lip.

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

NMM takes so long to start because it logs onto the Nexus servers by default.

 

i wonder if that would increase the clicks / trafic on the nexus and thus the money throbbin scotty could ask for his ads ...

 

(edit: nevermind, i guess thats obvious )

 

BOOOOOOOH, NEXUS, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

[Cynical Misanthrope]

No. Any sane human being should stay away from Nexus. Atleast when it comes to their software.

Just look at Nexus website. Just look at the NMM itself. Now, imagine what would happen when people that worked on NMM would get thier hands on MO.

 

With that being said, I have used NMM in the past. NEVER, had any problems. What made me stop using it, is this damn "always online" crap.

(okay, you can tick the offline option but still) I already have tons of such progams. And to be honset, Im really tired of it.

[PsychoMachina]

New question:  Is it a good or bad idea to merge NMM with Wrye Bash?

 

[judge0]

New question:  Is it a good or bad idea to merge NMM with Wrye Bash?

 

Let's see if I can describe Wrye Bash working like NMM.

 

Start NMM Bash  (copyright 2014 - judge0)  ---  splash screen comes up and bar grows for ten minutes

 

Followed by  a sign-in  screen for the Nexus {insert more wait time here}

 

Then a screens pops up and starts phantom upgrades on EVERY mod you've ever down-loaded

 

Finally NMM Bash opens and you now have two of all your installed mods listed in your load order and discover your INI files are on their way to Albuquerque . . .

 

Followed by a popup window that says the Nexus severs are unavailable, would you like to work offline????

 

I know I'd vote for that, as soon as I could brush the maggots off my mouse pad, lol

 

No, No, NO

 

[hryh23k9823u]

New question:  Is it a good or bad idea to merge NMM with Wrye Bash?

 

Mod Organizer already allows you to 'merge' (hook) Wrye Bash or any other executable you want to use, forcing some weird merge of Wrye Bash into NMM wouldn't make it less far behind Mod Organizer, but would make to far beyond what it is NMM now, simply cause Wrye Bash is much better than NMM... (Although is kinda ugly, need a new interface I think).

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

No. Any sane human being should stay away from Nexus. Atleast when it comes to their software.

Just look at Nexus website. Just look at the NMM itself. Now, imagine what would happen when people that worked on NMM would get thier hands on MO.

 

With that being said, I have used NMM in the past. NEVER, had any problems. What made me stop using it, is this damn "always online" crap.

(okay, you can tick the offline option but still) I already have tons of such progams. And to be honset, Im really tired of it.

 

---> and EXACTLY THIS is why i never used any downloadmanager at all. with all the crap about programs more analyzing your behavior, or fucking up things while running automatic functions that are buggy, up to crap that reminds you every second day that theres another update, i once got rid of software like that. if id ever go back to programs like that, id definitely trust the mo way more than nmm. i guess i repeat myself, ffs, just look at the forums...

[zaira]

I am not an expert and switched from NMM to MO some weeks ago - but is there anything that NMM can do and MO not?

I don't miss anything.

MO is a bit more complicated - so for new user NMM could be the better choice. 

 

[demongoat]

I think that up till now I still don't quite understand the antagonism between NMM, MO, Wrye Bash users and so on. It's kind of like a miniature version of the console wars, with warring tribes declaring superiority over each other in that order. If I had to guess, not many people use 100+ mods and only use two dozen or so at once, so excessive mod placement with tools isn't needed.

 

The thing is that NMM works. Grudgingly, barely, and occasionally DDoSing their own servers, but it promises two-click installs and it delivers. That's the first thing people see when they sign up for the biggest modding site for Skyrim. People are invested in NMM, have better knowledge of NMM because it is simpler and more prominently featured. I think the profiles feature that OM offers is sort of like the tabbing function for browsers. When Firefox first popularized it, it was amazing, but soon enough everyone caught on to it and it became a core feature. Did it bridge the gap between IE and FF? Not really, IE didn't need the push, and people who were invested in FF already were using it.

 

In order for a product to be favored over another, it has to be significantly better than it's rivals. Bringing back the browser analogy again, Chrome is strangely popular despite being the latest of the three to be released. This change obviously didn't happen overnight, it wasn't too long ago when I remembered that Chrome was constantly crashing and impossible to use. But they fixed it, and it uses far less memory than FF, with all the features it does. Is having a data folder clear of stuff good for stability? Perhaps, but the Skyrim engine is prone to CTDs so often, it is difficult to tell in the end.

i think you have the analogy wrong, it's more like NMM is windows, MO is more like mac os, and wrye bash is like linux.

only NNM is way worse than windows for doing barely minimum tasks and chugs like a relapsed alcoholic on a binge.   the people that programmed that pile of shit should be punched in the face for dumping that atrocity onto the gaming public. 

i use it because i'm lazy but i never load it unless i have to, which thankfully is rarely.  i just want to tear my hair out when it fucks up, which is at least 75% of the time i load it. 

 

who the fuck thought that adding more fucking games to the thing when it barely can handle the beth games it mostly serves was a good idea?   no one is going to fucking make mods for 90% of those games, what the hell are they thinking?

 

[crusher]

nothing to merge unless you mean "Gee, I've got a great idea, lets call ModOrganizer NexusModManager instead!"

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

On the other hand, NMM feels like corporate trash to me now, and I'd honestly hate for them to swallow yet even more shit - in attempts to "monopolize" the modding scene and community. Soon they'd be forcing updates and other things like that, maybe even restricting features that we'd grow used to, unless we had premium membership and other types of possible slippery slope crap. All sorts of things could happen in order to keep tabs on the user or even force ads into the manager and make us stay logged in and online with it, etc. 

 

and thats why i liked your post

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

Any of you guys remember that movie the fly where thats scientist gets merged with that house fly and turns into a freak of nature.........let us learn from the mistakes and speak not of any merging.

the-fly-blu-ray-08.jpg

 

 

holy fuck, ITS BRUNDLE-FLY!

 

best comparing ever, and another like for you

[h38fh2mf]

No way I don't like MO at all and don't want MO to ruin NMM.

 

Yes it's unpopular opinion, deal with it.

[itt1968]

I tried MO and at first was happy with it... my game seemed to run smoother, but in the end, its a "steaming pile of shit" just like NMM, both seem to do about the same things I can do all on my own! Yes, they both save time but for me, I would rather do it myself and save the hassle of looking up files that say have conflicts when there isn't one... my opinion, if you need it, use it... if you don't, don't waste the space on you're HD.

[Claynation01]

LOL good thing they didn't decide to call Nmm Skyrim mod manger TES6 will be out before they get that finished should probably figure out how to use wrye bash but i use nmm just to save time. Mod Organiser has problems with Rcrn fnis and similar tools while it keeps your data folder clean its just not ready yet needs more work.

[Mud]

What the hell would MO stand to gain from a merge like this? NMM is prone to all sorts of glitches and bugs that would just end up infesting MO if the two were to fuse together.

[itt1968]

LMAO... about 6 million users!

What the hell would MO stand to gain from a merge like this? NMM is prone to all sorts of glitches and bugs that would just end up infesting MO if the two were to fuse together.

 

[bob11]

 

 

LMAO... about 6 million users!

What the hell would MO stand to gain from a merge like this? NMM is prone to all sorts of glitches and bugs that would just end up infesting MO if the two were to fuse together.

 

No what you would end up with is 6 million users saying "why doesn't nexus fix this new MO manager, i thought you said it was better" followed by a bunch of snark comments from the moderation, followed by a bunch of bannings, followed by 6 million people annoyed at an inferior product but to afraid to speak up.

 

 

They'd probably go like "Duuuuuh, how does it work, derp!" "Why are my mods not working? I have all those pluses and minuses there, so confusing, what was wrong with the previous manager, this one sucks, so user-unfriendly."  People will always find something to complain about, even when it's strictly a PEBKAC thing xP  And taking the average person's intellect into account... yeah...