MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[Mimirue17]

51 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

On this topic, indeed, the current intended design for the cravings intensity is that until level 2-ish or maybe 3, you can still arguably pump the brakes somewhat
Past level 3,4, ( as you level up into bimbohood, Sexfight gets significantly easier), you can more easily handle tougher/more opponents in Sexfight without much preparation or effort, but it starts to be a vicious circle:  Cravings push the protagonist into reckless sexual behaviour, which increases CVTs, which lead to more intense cravings. Not fulfilling these cravings increases other aspects that need to be handled, either by almost constant visits to the debimbo school, which get more and more expensive. 
Past level 5, basically can't put the genie in the bottle anymore, you can probably easily win sexfights even when mindbroken, buuuut....it is just a matter of when you get to level 7+, not if.

During the story, there may be participants who could help our protagonist keep things under control even at levels 3 and 4.  (Marina for instance, could issue you an upgrade for Codsworth that might allow you to use him to sooth your cravings in private, with less ill-effects on your CVTs that what you'd do in the wild). 

Basically,
Level 0: Not a bimbo. Sexfight is rather difficult and can be used with limited success.
Levels 1,2: Sexual awakening/empowerment territory. You are in control of your newfound powers and can use them to your best interest. can probably manage on your own.
Levels 3,4:  Corruption territory. You've taken things a bit too far, probably will need outside help (from NPCs in the story), or the cravings will make you slowly advance to level 5.
Levels 5,6:  Depravement territory: Even with outside help, you can probably only delay the inevitable, but not fully stop it. Just a matter of time until...
Level 7:  SexDrone: You completely abandon yourself to the implant's directives and overall mission. This is where you lose your old sense of self. Some story branches will be 100%  inaccessible now (while others will open).

This is also the reason why I am a bit reluctant to just edit these craving requirement values and surface them in the MCM and make the craving values trivial for high-level bimbos, as it removes a lot of the meaning/consequence, and makes some story beats irrelevant, trivial.  

But I will probably do it anyway, and just hope people who want to play the proper experience (that has weight and makes you ponder things), will leave them on default, and people who just want something else, something easy,  that does not make them think or challenge their mind in any way, will dial them to a minimum.

As I have been playing it more on much normal playthrough I actually think the basic levels are fine as is (maybe a few things you can have a dial for at lower levels but once you take it too far the mod limits how much you can affect it)  I am still trying to figure out how the mod increases your % towards the next level outside of what is available on the mcm as I have raised levels while keeping things in check as far as I knew.   I believe it is in the penalty part of it especially the level of sex addiction you have. 

overall its a lot of fun to play and you have done a great job when discussing feedback, and as JB and others have mentioned, its your mod so stay true to your vision of what you want!

I am not sure how long you wanted to keep NR as a must use, as that mod is amazing but there is no way that I could get that mod to run on the mod list that includes open play in the world with weapon mods, settlement mods, textures etc.   NR only works and needs a stripped down mod list (you will not be interacting with the outside world much and almost no combat for the most part)   The animations from it are some of the best out there though, and the outfits are nice combos of multiple mods.  

[MSM_Alice]

10 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

As I have been playing it more on much normal playthrough I actually think the basic levels are fine as is (maybe a few things you can have a dial for at lower levels but once you take it too far the mod limits how much you can affect it)  I am still trying to figure out how the mod increases your % towards the next level outside of what is available on the mcm as I have raised levels while keeping things in check as far as I knew.   I believe it is in the penalty part of it especially the level of sex addiction you have. 

overall its a lot of fun to play and you have done a great job when discussing feedback, and as JB and others have mentioned, its your mod so stay true to your vision of what you want!

I am not sure how long you wanted to keep NR as a must use, as that mod is amazing but there is no way that I could get that mod to run on the mod list that includes open play in the world with weapon mods, settlement mods, textures etc.   NR only works and needs a stripped down mod list (you will not be interacting with the outside world much and almost no combat for the most part)   The animations from it are some of the best out there though, and the outfits are nice combos of multiple mods.  

Thank you!
Playthrough feedback is so crucial, thank you so much for providing it!

On the topic of NR:
While I haven't tested it yet, in theory, it should be close to being independent. 
If you want, I think you should be able to remove NukaRide from the Mod manager load order,  and see if anything critical (aside from warnings)  falls apart if starting MSMA without.

Obviously, you'd get some warnings when you scroll through those outfits in Marina's Hologram mode, and I think only one or two tattoo sets would remain available, but anything else should be working fairly normally.

Edited March 26, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

@Mimirue17

Actually, the whole thing of not knowing how far along you are until the next level was an important part of the original design. 
I know now that in the bimbo cravings reports, I do give details on how far one is along the level, and where the current targets are, I  do give specific numbers on CVTs. not just if they increase or decrease, but I am not convinced that it should stay there for good.  Probably should be an MCM toggle.
Initially, it was just info on if they are increasing and how fast, but no specific values were given.

It should give you pause for thought when you are out there and see a large group of enemies, you should stop and wonder.

"Is that too much to handle via sexfight alone?  Am I close to a bimbo level-up, and would that many sexfight opponents take me over the edge?
How long has it been since I visited the de-bimbo school, and have I engaged in too many depraved acts since then or since the last bimbo level up? "

Remember the save flow mechanic.
If that is on, the extra planar entities won't let you cheese your way out of a bimbo level-up; once it happened, it happened, even if you load an earlier save (of that bimbo character, from that specific playthrough).  You will be brought before the extraplanar tribunal, and the extra-planar entities will make sure you are re-leveled to that bimbo level that you tried to escape from.

Naturally, you are/were a lawyer so you might try to plead the case against it, and depending on how much intelligence you managed to hold on to, we'll see how that goes

Edited March 26, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

12 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

@Mimirue17

Actually, the whole thing of not knowing how far along you are until the next level was an important part of the original design. 
I know now that in the bimbo cravings reports, I do give details on how far one is along the level, and where the current targets are, I  do give specific numbers on CVTs. not just if they increase or decrease, but I am not convinced that it should stay there for good.  Probably should be an MCM toggle.
Initially, it was just info on if they are increasing and how fast, but no specific values were given.

It should give you pause for thought when you are out there and see a large group of enemies, you should stop and wonder.

"Is that too much to handle via sexfight alone?  Am I close to a bimbo level-up, and would that many sexfight opponents take me over the edge?
How long has it been since I visited the de-bimbo school, and have I engaged in too many depraved acts since then or since the last bimbo level up? "

Remember the save flow mechanic.
If that is on, the extra planar entities won't let you cheese your way out of a bimbo level-up; once it happened, it happened, even if you load an earlier save (of that bimbo character, from hat specific playthrough). 

oh I agree totally, I have not actively engaged large groups with the intent of sexfighting them.   I also have prepared ahead of time for unknown enemies (drunk and Jet fuel) as this allows to handle ones that are slightly above your bimbo level (and sometime even NPC like Blake Abernathy are above level 1 bimbo)  That drunk Mechanic you added is great, and funny as playing drunk is pretty fun and does let you handle mobs above you (with consequences I am sure as surely that will raise you closer to next level if abused)  Wonder if there are mods out there that enhance drunk effects....

[Mimirue17]

18 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

@Mimirue17

Actually, the whole thing of not knowing how far along you are until the next level was an important part of the original design. 
I know now that in the bimbo cravings reports, I do give details on how far one is along the level, and where the current targets are, I  do give specific numbers on CVTs. not just if they increase or decrease, but I am not convinced that it should stay there for good.  Probably should be an MCM toggle.
Initially, it was just info on if they are increasing and how fast, but no specific values were given.

It should give you pause for thought when you are out there and see a large group of enemies, you should stop and wonder.

"Is that too much to handle via sexfight alone?  Am I close to a bimbo level-up, and would that many sexfight opponents take me over the edge?
How long has it been since I visited the de-bimbo school, and have I engaged in too many depraved acts since then or since the last bimbo level up? "

Remember the save flow mechanic.
If that is on, the extra planar entities won't let you cheese your way out of a bimbo level-up; once it happened, it happened, even if you load an earlier save (of that bimbo character, from that specific playthrough).  You will be brought before the extraplanar tribunal, and the extra-planar entities will make sure you are re-leveled to that bimbo level that you tried to escape from.

Naturally, you are/were a lawyer so you might try to plead the case against it, and depending on how much intelligence you managed to hold on to, we'll see how that goes

so I had an idea around everything has a price, as Chems and Alcohol come into play I thought that the implant might have a little more control/mischief as you become more influence by these things.   Here are some of the thoughts I had on a fairly basic way (not sure how easy it is to implement as I haven't gone very deep into making mods)

 

the player basically becomes easier to manipulate by 10% per effect they are under - chems is 10, alcohol is 10 and if both 20%

 

 1. your general arousal/hour is increased if under any influence 10%/20%

2. The implant increases endorphins to the point that anything becomes mixed with pleasure, 10/20 percent of any damage taken is added to arousal

3.  you are more likely to surrender the more you are under the influence (with 1 & 2) if you orgasm while in combat you will surrender

4. Stimpaks are a bit of a downer and they lose 10%/20% of the effectiveness and they lower your arousal by a flat 10% of effective healing amount (if under the influence of at least 1 item)

5.  All arousal levels are raised by 10%/20% during sex, so you are more likely to orgasm during sex, as everything feels that much more amazing under the influence.

6.  If you become under Mindbreak you will have a greater chance to get a perversion again by the 10%/20%

7.  You will also become more likely to be addicted by 10%, and if a perk blocks addiction it will make it 10% chance.

8.  Not sure how to do this but if you continue to abuse these items your addiction will reach the point that only Marina will be able to cure it, and only every 72 hours.

 

just some ideas, I plan on manually adjusting my levels in SA to match these when I use drugs or spirits and will surrender if I orgasm.   Some of these items I am not able to playtest as they are not adjustable.

 

Just an idea, as giving the Implant more influence is a risk/reward situation as you mentioned with your general actions towards Bimbo levels.

 

 

[MSM_Alice]

On 3/27/2025 at 7:10 AM, Mimirue17 said:

so I had an idea around everything has a price, as Chems and Alcohol come into play I thought that the implant might have a little more control/mischief as you become more influence by these things.   Here are some of the thoughts I had on a fairly basic way (not sure how easy it is to implement as I haven't gone very deep into making mods)

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

the player basically becomes easier to manipulate by 10% per effect they are under - chems is 10, alcohol is 10 and if both 20%

 

 1. your general arousal/hour is increased if under any influence 10%/20%

2. The implant increases endorphins to the point that anything becomes mixed with pleasure, 10/20 percent of any damage taken is added to arousal

3.  you are more likely to surrender the more you are under the influence (with 1 & 2) if you orgasm while in combat you will surrender

4. Stimpaks are a bit of a downer and they lose 10%/20% of the effectiveness and they lower your arousal by a flat 10% of effective healing amount (if under the influence of at least 1 item)

5.  All arousal levels are raised by 10%/20% during sex, so you are more likely to orgasm during sex, as everything feels that much more amazing under the influence.

6.  If you become under Mindbreak you will have a greater chance to get a perversion again by the 10%/20%

7.  You will also become more likely to be addicted by 10%, and if a perk blocks addiction it will make it 10% chance.

8.  Not sure how to do this but if you continue to abuse these items your addiction will reach the point that only Marina will be able to cure it, and only every 72 hours.

 

just some ideas, I plan on manually adjusting my levels in SA to match these when I use drugs or spirits and will surrender if I orgasm.   Some of these items I am not able to playtest as they are not adjustable.

 

Just an idea, as giving the Implant more influence is a risk/reward situation as you mentioned with your general actions towards Bimbo levels.
 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. They are interesting and will keep them in mind.

Right now, I want to step back a bit from experimenting new features as I am a bit worried about managing all that complexity and system interplay.
As I keep adding all sorts of modules/conditions, and things can get out of hand, both in terms of new bugs, but also in terms of having to re-tune difficulty and balance.  

Do you feel the need for the "Slipepry slope" to be any more slippery than it already is?

On my last playthrough  (I usually play until I kill Kellogg to have a feel of the progression), I felt that, on default it was perhaps too much of a slippery slope (but it is true I tested with RGE  Raider Gangs Extended, and that significantly raises some of the combat difficulty). 

 

 

Here is my current plan for it. When all of that is done, I might even remove" alpha" from the mod title, and say that Prologue-wise, this is Beta.

a. Tighten up the current systems, identify and solve any remaining bugs/quirks. ( for instance, I might need to re-think the "permanent" MSMA equipment watchdog, for equipment that is not supposed to be removable, like long nails, or body piercings. Right now, there are too many ways to remove what's supposed to be "permanent" items without Marina's help. Normally, they should only be removable at the Marina. Figure out automatic player Unequipping on NG for Wedge's side quest -sometimes the player stays equipped in those scenes.; figure out Marina's tattoos interplay with other mods like  tats after rape, right now tats after rape removes Marina's tattoos, and ideally I would want them both )

b. Do the string management migration, move all the text bits from all scripts into the one string manager script.  (When that is done, it will also be easier to do an automated typo pass, and people who want to translate will be able to translate the mod far more easily) 

c. Finalize the additional elements of keeping Bimbo progression and cravings in check.  Add a first version of the Actual De-Bimbo School -  not just an item in the menu. (This intros new characters like the DeBimbo Schoolmarm, and your bimbo class colleagues, that will all play a part later int the story, for instance the plan for them is to be will be your back-up singers ( or dancers) when you will put together a concert/show to promote mister SJ's dildo factory in Act 1. Add Cosworth's craving management functionality. 

d. Add the Extra Planar tribunal and the three clueless Extra Planar entity judges, who try hard to understand our universe but are still so alien to it. 
I don't know why, but I feel the need to make them somewhat like the Abstainers from "Trover saves the universe". I haven't played that game at all, I don't know if it is my cup of tea, but specifically the video clip with the abstainers brought a chuckle.  

e. Do "safe" content additions, like adding more content to Marina's "store"(equipment list) (new clothing and such from TRS and K-Girl mods). Investigate if I can make a "custom clothing hypersexualized" module at Marina.

f. Rewrite a bit of dialogue for Marina, Misty, and Wedge so they are more believable, and record voices for them.  I want to do away with the initial text prompts at the start, and have Misty explain all of that in her own words. 

g. Make Marina more of a believable friend by reacting to various states that you are in when you visit her, and offering ways to help  (that holotape for Codsworth that helps you keep your cravings in check with a "safe" partner). 

h. Maybe: Unattended cravings will cause you affect your dialogue lines with strangers, and you might blurt out what you crave in a dialogue with them.  Some of them might offer to help you with your cravings, and depending on how intense the craving is, and what your bimbo level is, you might have trouble saying "pass".

i. Some flavour items to support the story premise, like changing the holotape Nate left with Codsworth for you, to better reflect the reality of this universe: his cheating ways and intent to divorce Nora (had the bombs not fallen, you were about to be served papers for a  divorce) 

J. Do another read of this thread from start to finish, and see what users' asks are possible to implement without a lot of domino effects. 

k. Figure out if there is an easy way to support a male bimbo player without breaking the existing systems. 

l.. Reorganize the data and have the data that updates less frequently ( music, some textures)  be in a separate zip file, than the main esp and scripts, just to make wiser use of storage and bandwidth on LL. 

m. Figure out if there is a way to add a toggle to "I just want the sexfight stuff,  without any of the bimbo story".

Edited April 3, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

25 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Thank you. They are interesting and will keep them in mind.

Right now, I want to step back a bit from experimenting new features as I am a bit worried about managing all that complexity and system interplay.
As I keep adding all sorts of modules/conditions, and things can get out of hand, both in terms of new bugs, but also in terms of having to re-tune difficulty and balance.  

Do you feel the need for the "Slipepry slope" to be any more slippery than it already is?

On my last playthrough  (I usually play until I kill Kellogg to have a feel of the progression), I felt that, on default it was perhaps too much of a slippery slope (but it is true I tested with RGE  Raider Gangs Extended, and that significantly raises some of the combat difficulty). 

 

 

Here is my current plan for it. When all of that is done, I might even remove" alpha" from the mod title, and say that Prologue-wise, this is Beta.

a. Tighten up the current systems, identify and solve any remaining bugs/quirks. ( for instance, I might need to re-think the "permanent" MSMA equipment watchdog, for equipment that is not supposed to be removable, like long nails, or body piercings. Right now, there are too many ways to remove what's supposed to be "permanent" items without Marina's help. Normally, they should only be removable at the Marina.)

b. Do the string management migration, move all the text bits from all scripts into the one string manager script.  (When that is done, it will also be easier to do an automated typo pass, and people who want to translate will be able to translate the mod far more easily) 

c. Add a first version of the Actual De-Bimbo School -  not just an item in the menu. (This intros new characters like the DeBimbo Schoolmarm, and your bimbo class colleagues, that will all play a part later int the story, for instance the plan for them is to be will be your back-up singers ( or dancers) when you will put together a concert/show to promote mister SJ's fildo factory in Act 1.

d. Add the Extra Planar tribunal, and the three clueless Extra Planar entity judges, who try hard to understand our universe, but still are so alien to it. 
I don't know why, but I feel the need to make them somewhat like the Abstainers from "Trover saves the universe". I haven't played that game at all, I don't know if it is my cup of tea, but specifically the video clip with the abstainers brought a chuckle.  

e. Do "safe" content additions, like add more content to Marina's "store"(equipment list)  (new clothing and such  from TRS and K-Girl mods) 

f. Rewrite a bit of dialogue for Marina, Misty, and Wedge so they are more believable, and record voices for them.  I want to do away with the initial text prompts at the start, and have Misty explain all of that in her own words. 

g. Make Marina more of a believable friend by reacting to various states that you are in when you visit her, and offering ways to help  (that holotape for Codsworth that helps you keep your cravings in check with a "safe" partner). 

h. Maybe: Unattended cravings will cause you affect your dialogue lines with strangers, and you might blurt out what you crave in a dialogue with them.  Some of them might offer to help you with your cravings, and depending on how intense the craving is, and what your bimbo level is, you might have trouble saying "pass".

i. Some flavour items to support the story premise, like changing the holotape Nate left with Codsworth for you, to better reflect the reality of this universe: his cheating ways and intent to divorce Nora (had the bombs not fallen, you were about to be served papers for a  divorce) 

J. Do another read of this thread from start to finish, and see what users' asks are possible to implement without a lot of domino effects. 

k. Figure out if there is an easy way to support a male bimbo player without breaking the existing systems. 

l.. Reorganize the data and have the data that updates less frequently ( music, some textures)  be in a separate zip file, than the main esp and scripts, just to make wiser use of storage and bandwidth on LL. 

m. Figure out if there is a way to add a toggle to "I just want the sexfight stuff,  without any of the bimbo story".

Thats a good plan (there is a typo when you first talk to the extra planar being - there is an extra W in there, think it says wand on the 1st option)

 

I have actually never made it to diamond city while playing this mod yet, trying to get a more stable game as I get random crashes while building settlements and not sure of the cause.   I should check for save bloat and see if something is corrupting the saves.   I like the mechanics of this, and the need to be strategic on who you shag and when and when you just use the guns.   The game gets seriously harder when you get near 20ish as they start using grenades alot more and one limb crit and you are in surrender mode.   I might just did the outfits and build my favorites from VTAW where I can build them up to give protection and still look sexy (just wont get the hyper part)  get piercings, nails and trinkets from Marina - maybe some tattoos but they disappear when the raiders start giving you tats after rape.   I have not had the piercings ever disappear but now wont be able to use the Nuka Ride body ones ones unless I still crash then that not was not the issue (having multiple script logs start at the exit of vault is normally not recommended which is why I wanted to try without it).

side question what actual level, bimbo level or something else do you need to be able to use sexfight with supermutants, even in the 15ish range and bimbo 2 it wasn't enough though the levels of them very by zone so that matters also.

[MSM_Alice]

4 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

Thats a good plan (there is a typo when you first talk to the extra planar being - there is an extra W in there, think it says wand on the 1st option)

 

I have actually never made it to diamond city while playing this mod yet, trying to get a more stable game as I get random crashes while building settlements and not sure of the cause.   I should check for save bloat and see if something is corrupting the saves.   I like the mechanics of this, and the need to be strategic on who you shag and when and when you just use the guns.   The game gets seriously harder when you get near 20ish as they start using grenades alot more and one limb crit and you are in surrender mode.   I might just did the outfits and build my favorites from VTAW where I can build them up to give protection and still look sexy (just wont get the hyper part)  get piercings, nails and trinkets from Marina - maybe some tattoos but they disappear when the raiders start giving you tats after rape.   I have not had the piercings ever disappear but now wont be able to use the Nuka Ride body ones ones unless I still crash then that not was not the issue (having multiple script logs start at the exit of vault is normally not recommended which is why I wanted to try without it).

side question what actual level, bimbo level or something else do you need to be able to use sexfight with supermutants, even in the 15ish range and bimbo 2 it wasn't enough though the levels of them very by zone so that matters also.

I did run some tests and it should be technically possible to ask Marina to "hyper-ificate" any clothing item for you.
Place the item in her container, talk with her, she works her magic, and get the item from the container. 

Not implemented yet, but could be added to the list, as it uses the current system I am using for the existing items ( with the added flag added at run-time), so not much chance of new bugs. 

 

[MSM_Alice]

35 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

 

side question what actual level, bimbo level or something else do you need to be able to use sexfight with supermutants, even in the 15ish range and bimbo 2 it wasn't enough though the levels of them very by zone so that matters also.

Supermuntants are meant to be challenging /scary.  I mean, have you seen them? their thing is like, forearm sized.

I trust mostly the vanilla character level difference  (not the bimbo level, but regular char level) is what might be making them too difficult, maybe they are just much higher level than you.

Or their sheer size might be a factor too, you need to have your own size class be closer to their size class ( super mutants are typically size class 2, or 3 on very special occasions -  a particularly well endowed super mutants, or if they group u,p they are size class 3). If your size is not close by ( but lower),  they have an "unfair" advantage.
Humans, by comparison, are usually Class 1  size (or max 2 on very special occasions - well-endowed humans, or if they group up). 

 

 

That size aspect should normally take care of itself if you keep running into supermutants, though. Someone/something even more monstrous could accelerate that resizing for you. Or maybe  Marina should also have a holotape and a Codsworth .. umm..  implement,  that works as a dilator function, so you can have a  "Codsworth, let's train and increase my [X] size", function for that, if you know you are heading out into supermutant territory.

Might also have to add some option at Marina for that, you could ask her, "I need to prepare to handle some supermutant encounters, what do I need to do?" And Marina could take a look at your stats and offer info on what needs to be done. 

 

Edited March 27, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

14 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Supermuntants are meant to be challenging /scary.  I mean, have you seen them? their thing is like, forearm sized.

I trust mostly the vanilla character level difference  (not the bimbo level, but regular char level) is what might be making them too difficult, maybe they are just much higher level than you.
Or their sheer size might be a factor too, you need to have your own sizes be closer to their sizes( I think that's 2 or 3, maybe even),  otherwise they have an "unfair" advantage. That size aspect should normally take care of itself if you keep running into supermutants, though. Someone/something even more monstrous could accelerate that resizing for you. Or maybe  Marina should also has a holotape and a Codsworth .. umm..  implement,  that works as a dilator function, so you can have a  "Codsworth, let's train and increase my [X] size", function for that, if you know you are heading out into supermutant territory.

Might also have to add some option at Marina for that, you could ask her, "I need to prepare to handle some supermutant encounters, what do I need to do?" And Marina could take a look at your stats and offer info on what needs to be done. 

 

I probably made it harder as use Super Mutant Redux which buffs them up even more then normal ones.   I just love occasional spouts with them, they have some of the funniest lines of any band you will run across.   I will test a new game again, I restart every couple of days to try thjings.   Going to try that RGE mod along with RO that I added back in.

[MSM_Alice]

23 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

I probably made it harder as use Super Mutant Redux which buffs them up even more then normal ones.   I just love occasional spouts with them, they have some of the funniest lines of any band you will run across.   I will test a new game again, I restart every couple of days to try thjings.   Going to try that RGE mod along with RO that I added back in.

By default, fighting enemies in the vanilla Fallout 4 experience is rather easy, which is why in MSMA the initial bimbo implant (to offset that and to ensure the encounters are more challenging, and to be in line with the lore of bimbos not being necesarelly proficient fighters/soldiers), reduces the initial player weapon damage and increases weapon spread (in addition to increasing trader costs).

However, if on top of that adjustment you also have other mods that increase the difficulty even further (which mods might be okay if your base combat effectiveness was the unaltered vanilla Fallout 4 one),  now when you combine with the adjustment for MSMA and your increased difficulty mods, now the combined result might be too much.
 

Edited March 27, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

4 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

By default, fighting enemies in the vanilla Fallout 4 experience is rather easy, which is why in MSMA the initial bimbo implant (to offset that and to ensure the encounters are more challenging, and to be in line with the lore of bimbos not being necesarelly proficient fighters/soldiers), reduces the initial player weapon damage and increases weapon spread (in addition to increasing trader costs).

However, if on top of that adjustment you also have other mods that increase the difficulty even further (which mods might be okay if your base combat effectiveness was the unaltered vanilla Fallout 4 one),  now when you combine with the adjustment for MSMA and your increased difficulty mods, now the combined result might be too much.
 

well to balance it I use the add weave mod to drastically increase defense ratings, combined arms to add high damage weapons and beef up all the level lists to make it fun  

[helloada2]

About Sturges' quest, I have been stuck in the stage getting corn from Wedge. Specifically, after the 3some scene with Wedge and Vicks, the protagonist is free to walk yet no dialogs or any reaction from Wedge like before during the stages getting bed and water pump material. Is it normal or a bug that yet to be fixed?

[MSM_Alice]

6 hours ago, helloada2 said:

About Sturges' quest, I have been stuck in the stage getting corn from Wedge. Specifically, after the 3some scene with Wedge and Vicks, the protagonist is free to walk yet no dialogs or any reaction from Wedge like before during the stages getting bed and water pump material. Is it normal or a bug that yet to be fixed?

Hello. Thank you for testing and mentioning this.
It is not normal (and others here and I have gone through all scenes and completed the entire Sanctuary quest.). 
The AAF scene should end, and you should get an end dialogue scene, where Wedge will say things depending on performance, or ask you to re-do if the performance was too low.

Was this on a new game started on the most recent version of the mod, or was it an upgrade from an older version (and if so, on which version did you start the mod on)?

 

Can you load an earlier save and see if it happens again the same way?
Additionally, can you offer more context

- Did you have debug mode on, or verbose notifications turned on in the MSMA MCM (and was your notification channel flooded with notifications)? 

- What version of the mod are you on, 
- What bimbo level were you?
- did you use SexFight at all, or
- did you have challenges turned off?
- did you force-end the AAF animation with the End Key in the UI, or did you let it finish naturally?
- did you do anything extra, like open menus or pause things during that animation, etc?
- did you use NAF/Naficator instead of AAF? (I am not developing on NAF, only AAF, and I have no idea how well NAF/Naficator works with this quest) 

- are you on NG or pre-NG (and, esp if on NG, what is the specific AAF version you are on) 
- if Wedge dies somehow that could also explain why that scene did not start,  but Wedge Vicks and Piete are all set as Essential and Ghost so in theory they should be un-killable.

Give me this info and I can probably tell you precisely which stage you need to set the quest to to progress further

 

Edited March 28, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[helloada2]

4 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Hello. Thank you for testing and mentioning this.
It is not normal (and others here and I have gone through all scenes and completed the entire Sanctuary quest.). 
The AAF scene should end, and you should get an end dialogue scene, where Wedge will say things depending on performance, or ask you to re-do if the performance was too low.

Was this on a new game started on the most recent version of the mod, or was it an upgrade from an older version (and if so, on which version did you start the mod on)?

 

Can you load an earlier save and see if it happens again the same way?
Additionally, can you offer more context

- Did you have debug mode on, or verbose notifications turned on in the MSMA MCM (and was your notification channel flooded with notifications)? 

- What version of the mod are you on, 
- What bimbo level were you?
- did you use SexFight at all, or
- did you have challenges turned off?
- did you force-end the AAF animation with the End Key in the UI, or did you let it finish naturally?
- did you do anything extra, like open menus or pause things during that animation, etc?
- did you use NAF/Naficator instead of AAF? (I am not developing on NAF, only AAF, and I have no idea how well NAF/Naficator works with this quest) 

- are you on NG or pre-NG (and, esp if on NG, what is the specific AAF version you are on) 
- if Wedge dies somehow that could also explain why that scene did not start,  but Wedge Vicks and Piete are all set as Essential and Ghost so in theory they should be un-killable.

Give me this info and I can probably tell you precisely which stage you need to set the quest to to progress further

 

Wow, first of all, thank you for your comprehensive reply! About your question, yes, it's a new game with fresh installed ver7270 of the mod. Now that you mentioned it, pretty much the same situation happened getting water pump material, but I did load an earlier save back then ONCE and it worked. However, I have been trying to do the same to the "getting corn" part for at least FIVE times, yet I kept getting the same result. 

For all your following questions:

- No debug mode, nor any notification.

- ver7270

- well, this might be it because the protagonist here is not a bimbo yet

- yes, I used SexFight

- No, the challenges are on

- I let it finish naturally

- No menus being opened nor pausing during the animation

- No NAF

- Game is on NG

- My Wedge is safe and sound. Well, technically he was not making any sound after the 3some animation.

I would love that if you can provide the stage to progress the quest. In fact, have you considered making a SetStage Guide like the NukaRide? Just a genuine suggestion.

[MSM_Alice]

52 minutes ago, helloada2 said:

Wow, first of all, thank you for your comprehensive reply! About your question, yes, it's a new game with fresh installed ver7270 of the mod. Now that you mentioned it, pretty much the same situation happened getting water pump material, but I did load an earlier save back then ONCE and it worked. However, I have been trying to do the same to the "getting corn" part for at least FIVE times, yet I kept getting the same result. 

For all your following questions:

- No debug mode, nor any notification.

- ver7270

- well, this might be it because the protagonist here is not a bimbo yet

- yes, I used SexFight

- No, the challenges are on

- I let it finish naturally

- No menus being opened nor pausing during the animation

- No NAF

- Game is on NG

- My Wedge is safe and sound. Well, technically he was not making any sound after the 3some animation.

I would love that if you can provide the stage to progress the quest. In fact, have you considered making a SetStage Guide like the NukaRide? Just a genuine suggestion.

Check which stages are set stages for the MSMA_Bimbo_Min01 quest.
470 should not be set. 

Set stage 470 for MSMA_Bimbo_Min01 quest, this should get things going.
Same for the later iterations (it increases by 100 each time, 570, 670, 770)
But keep a save I might want to give you a temp script that generates some popups to see if thigs get activated, if you are up for it 

What's puzzling is that the same method was used to start the post AAF scene dialogue on the first two iterations (Beds and Water) and I understand it worked just fine there. 

Maybe it is something specific to NG, will have to test more on NG.
 

Edited March 28, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, helloada2 said:

Wow, first of all, thank you for your comprehensive reply! About your question, yes, it's a new game with fresh installed ver7270 of the mod. Now that you mentioned it, pretty much the same situation happened getting water pump material, but I did load an earlier save back then ONCE and it worked. However, I have been trying to do the same to the "getting corn" part for at least FIVE times, yet I kept getting the same result. 

For all your following questions:

- No debug mode, nor any notification.

- ver7270

- well, this might be it because the protagonist here is not a bimbo yet

- yes, I used SexFight

- No, the challenges are on

- I let it finish naturally

- No menus being opened nor pausing during the animation

- No NAF

- Game is on NG

- My Wedge is safe and sound. Well, technically he was not making any sound after the 3some animation.

I would love that if you can provide the stage to progress the quest. In fact, have you considered making a SetStage Guide like the NukaRide? Just a genuine suggestion.

If you can please: 


Back-up your: 
Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\MSMA\MSMA_Min01Bimbo.pex (so you can restore later once the testing is done) 

Then temporarily replace it with this one from the zip file

Go again through the food/corn segment (I understand the initial dialogue, before the AAF scene  goes okay, the AAF scene itself goes okay, it is what happens after that is problematic).

Let me know if the following 3 messages appear post the sex scene:
 

• Debug.MessageBox("1/3 : Post Sex Scene Meta string check succesful")
• Debug.MessageBox("2/3 : Post Sex Scene Dialogue Prep is called")
• Debug.MessageBox("3/3 : Post Sex Scene Dialogue starts")

A papyrus log from that session might also be useful.
Also, what is the specific AAF version you are on?


The only logical explanation wis that somehow the meta tags for that scene are not being correctly transmitted to the OnAnimationEnd Event, or are not correctly parsed in individual strings using the comma separator. 
 

MSMA_Min01Bimbo.zip

Edited March 29, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MrCruelJohn]

41 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

If you can please: 


Back-up your: 
Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\MSMA\MSMA_Min01Bimbo.pex (so you can restore later once the testing is done) 

Then temporarily replace it with this one from the zip file

Go again through the food/corn segment (I understand the initial dialogue, before the AAF scene  goes okay, the AAF scene itself goes okay, it is what happens after that is problematic).

Let me know if the following 3 messages appear post the sex scene:
 

• Debug.MessageBox("1/3 : Post Sex Scene Meta string check succesful")
• Debug.MessageBox("2/3 : Post Sex Scene Dialogue Prep is called")
• Debug.MessageBox("3/3 : Post Sex Scene Dialogue starts")

A papyrus log from that session might also be useful.
Also, what is the specific AAF version you are on?


The only logical explanation wis that somehow the meta tags for that scene are not being correctly transmitted to the OnAnimationEnd Event, or are not correctly parsed in individual strings using the comma separator. 
 

MSMA_Min01Bimbo.zip 13.22 kB · 0 downloads

 

Thank you for this mod.  It is creative and adds flavor.

 

I don't know if what I encounter is related to Wedge, but after the sex scene with Wedge (1st time sent by Sturges), the screen goes black, the load circles in the bottom right of screen, but then crashes to desktop.

 

I am using your latest version and the previous version worked fine for me.

 

NON NG, latest AAF (prior to any NG AAF 171 something I think.)

 

Anyway, not sure what is causing this - started a new game with the latest version.

 

John

[helloada2]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

If you can please: 


Back-up your: 
Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\MSMA\MSMA_Min01Bimbo.pex (so you can restore later once the testing is done) 

Then temporarily replace it with this one from the zip file

Go again through the food/corn segment (I understand the initial dialogue, before the AAF scene  goes okay, the AAF scene itself goes okay, it is what happens after that is problematic).

Let me know if the following 3 messages appear post the sex scene:
 

• Debug.MessageBox("1/3 : Post Sex Scene Meta string check succesful")
• Debug.MessageBox("2/3 : Post Sex Scene Dialogue Prep is called")
• Debug.MessageBox("3/3 : Post Sex Scene Dialogue starts")

A papyrus log from that session might also be useful.
Also, what is the specific AAF version you are on?


The only logical explanation wis that somehow the meta tags for that scene are not being correctly transmitted to the OnAnimationEnd Event, or are not correctly parsed in individual strings using the comma separator. 
 

MSMA_Min01Bimbo.zip 13.22 kB · 1 download

I have got some bad news.

But first, I used the AAF ver1.1.1 released last December and I upgraded the protagonist to level 1 Bimbo after my first post, did not work as I expected (╥﹏╥)....

Then I reloaded the save and checked the quest stage of MSMA_Bimbo_Min01. 470 is (not set). After the 3some animation, it's still (not set) 470. And after I inputted "setstage MSMA_Bimbo_Min01 470", screen went black like before (bed & water pump) and I did find 12 corns in workshop. However, get this, I progressed the quest to the stage where I need to have another 3 some with Wedge and Vicks for turrets, and after the protagonist said "we understand each other",

nothing happened.

You know before any AAF animation there should be a small icon of AAF on top right corner with some dot circling around it but literally nothing this time. 

About that temp script you sent me,

I don't know what those popups should look like because nothing happened (T_T). Is it supposed to be like some notification on top left corner? Or windows popping up? But either way I got none of those. Sorry for the late reply, I doublechecked the situation and loaded and played twice starting from "ready to get the corn" and yielded the same result each time. FYI, I did play them with your tempt script installed the whole time.

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, helloada2 said:

I have got some bad news.

But first, I used the AAF ver1.1.1 released last December and I upgraded the protagonist to level 1 Bimbo after my first post, did not work as I expected (╥﹏╥)....

Then I reloaded the save and checked the quest stage of MSMA_Bimbo_Min01. 470 is (not set). After the 3some animation, it's still (not set) 470. And after I inputted "setstage MSMA_Bimbo_Min01 470", screen went black like before (bed & water pump) and I did find 12 corns in workshop. However, get this, I progressed the quest to the stage where I need to have another 3 some with Wedge and Vicks for turrets, and after the protagonist said "we understand each other",

nothing happened.

You know before any AAF animation there should be a small icon of AAF on top right corner with some dot circling around it but literally nothing this time. 

About that temp script you sent me,

I don't know what those popups should look like because nothing happened (T_T). Is it supposed to be like some notification on top left corner? Or windows popping up? But either way I got none of those. Sorry for the late reply, I doublechecked the situation and loaded and played twice starting from "ready to get the corn" and yielded the same result each time. FYI, I did play them with your tempt script installed the whole time.

Thank you for the context. 
 

Yes those three should be windows popups that require an OK to progress, so you can' t miss them. 
The fact that they are not springing up really narrows it down for me, it seems is all in how the scene Meta strings are being passed (they seem to not be passed at all in your case starting with the food quest for some reason).
Sounds more and more like the meta for the scene is not being consistently passed through.

I will update it myself and check on my own NG installation to see if I can get this to replicate. 

Did you see the ("Filming session is about to end in 10 seconds..") about 10 seconds off the end on the good runs, and you didn't see it on the problematic runs?
 

After the protagonist said "we understand each other" for the turrets, did Wedge actually say his closing line, or did you just stay stuck in the Dialogue scene forever?

 

Also here is an updated script, if you can run it in the same situation, will  try and determine more things ( there should now be a 100% popup at the end of any AAF scene giving you info about the meta information of that scene, so only use it for this particular scene ( as for other scenes , if this popup appears under a black screen, you might think it hanged as it will they there forever until you press enter, sdthe popup will be "under" the back screen awaiting your input) .  

Is there any way you can enable logging and provide a papyrus log ?

When you said "I progressed the quest" you mean did so correctly by doing the actions in game , or did you set simply upcoming stages from the console?

 

Will re-read the AAF documentation too maybe something changed recently in the latest version in relation to scene meta (but unlikely). 

Maybe I need to add more delays between phases ( + a second or two).

MSMA_Min01Bimbov2.zip

Edited March 29, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

5 hours ago, MrCruelJohn said:

 

Thank you for this mod.  It is creative and adds flavor.

 

I don't know if what I encounter is related to Wedge, but after the sex scene with Wedge (1st time sent by Sturges), the screen goes black, the load circles in the bottom right of screen, but then crashes to desktop.

 

I am using your latest version and the previous version worked fine for me.

 

NON NG, latest AAF (prior to any NG AAF 171 something I think.)

 

Anyway, not sure what is causing this - started a new game with the latest version.

 

John

Thank you for testing and reporting this. 

When you say after the 1st scene, does Wedge say anything post scene,  before sending you back to sanctuary, or immediately after the AAF scene - crash, no  end dialogue where he evaluates your performance?

Is there any way you can enable logging and provide a papyrus log?

Did you see that notification that tells you that filming is about to end?

("Filming session is about to end in 10 seconds..") about 10 seconds off the end?
 

Edited March 29, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

@helloada2
@MrCruelJohn

IF you can, as a test,  backup your 

Fallout 4\Data\Scripts\MSMA\MSMA_Min01Bimbo.pex (so you can restore later once the testing is done) 

 

Then temporarily replace it with this one from the zip file below
 

This one will spawn a lot more on screen messages about what is happening in the Wedge Quest, (and will also write more things to the papyrus log if papyrus logging is enabled)

MSMA_Min01Bimbo_papyruslog.zip

Edited March 29, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MrCruelJohn]

8 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Thank you for testing and reporting this. 

When you say after the 1st scene, does Wedge say anything post scene,  before sending you back to sanctuary, or immediately after the AAF scene - crash, no  end dialogue where he evaluates your performance?

Is there any way you can enable logging and provide a papyrus log?

Did you see that notification that tells you that filming is about to end?

("Filming session is about to end in 10 seconds..") about 10 seconds off the end?
 

 

No, no notification that scene was about to end, no conversation, just scene ends black screen then crash to desktop.

 

I re-started to enable mods after vault exit - for some reason, I decided to start all pre-war so I went back to new game and will let you know.

 

I know after vault exit it worked fine.

Thanks!

 

John

 

[MSM_Alice]

52 minutes ago, MrCruelJohn said:

 

No, no notification that scene was about to end, no conversation, just scene ends black screen then crash to desktop.

 

I re-started to enable mods after vault exit - for some reason, I decided to start all pre-war so I went back to new game and will let you know.

 

I know after vault exit it worked fine.

Thanks!

 

John

 

Indeed if you did not see the : "Filming session is about to end in 10 seconds.."  warning notification, that is a very important clue.
It means pretty important part of the script is not running at all (and that is why you get the crash).

That is the part that is supposed to make sure the sexfight shuts down int the correct order,  but that only works if the AAF sex scene meta is correctly communicated in the end events " OnAnimationStop".


It is likely the same root cause affecting @helloada2 too, for both of your scenarios it seems there is a context in which the sex meta tags (probably on the latest AAF build if you too are on version 1.1.1) , don't get passed on , either not consistently (for him) or not at all (for you).

Will test more to figure out if the problem is on parsing the big string with all the tags and the designated separator, into individual string arrays, or if the big string itself is not correct, though it does not seem to be a NG only thing, more likely it has something to do with the most recent version of AAF , that works on both NG and pre NG.. 

Edited March 29, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MrCruelJohn]

47 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Indeed if you did not see the : "Filming session is about to end in 10 seconds.."  warning notification, that is a very important clue.
It means pretty important part of the script is not running at all (and that is why you get the crash).

That is the part that is supposed to make sure the sexfight shuts down int the correct order,  but that only works if the AAF sex scene meta is correctly communicated in the end events " OnAnimationStop".


It is likely the same root cause affecting @helloada2 too, for both of your scenarios it seems there is a context in which the sex meta tags (probably on the latest AAF build if you too are on version 1.1.1) , don't get passed on , either not consistently (for him) or not at all (for you).

Will test more to figure out if the problem is on parsing the big string with all the tags and the designated separator, into individual string arrays, or if the big string itself is not correct, though it does not seem to be a NG only thing, more likely it has something to do with the most recent version of AAF , that works on both NG and pre NG.. 

 

Mine is pre- NG - and it worked fine previously before latest update (EDIT: Update to this Mod - AAF has not been changed for months and works fine)

 

Also, I will say that I had tried a time before the successful time - I had done some build up of sanctuary so the requirements with sturges changed and when sent to Wedge, the conversation of "Hello" did not initiate.

 

I tried again without any build up of Sanctuary and it worked superbly.

 

May just be some conditions?

 

Anyway, I will re-start after vault exit and see how it goes.

 

John

 

BTW - this last time not working, thinking about it, I was already at 60% building beds as I just built a bed and a pump... I will makes sure there is nothing built again.

Edited March 29, 2025 by MrCruelJohn