MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[MSM_Alice]

@OperandMSMA_v0_7240.zip
A version with a form of frenzy (By default on , but can be tuned off in the SexFight page in the MCM).

Includes source scripts too.

There were a lot more corner cases than imagined as it does not make sense to replace paralysis with frenzy except if there are valid enemies ( frenzied or not) so that the frenzied ones have an " object" of their hate. 
Also whenever a super mutant suicider is involved frenzy should also be put on hold. 


Changelog: 

 

0.7240 - might be a bit quirky as a new Sex Fight outcome for the enemies, (frenzied) has been introduced, aside the usual Paralysis and Death, 

- Frenzied enemy state has been added as a potential outcome from SexFight, that replaces paralysis in most cases.  It is by default enabled (can be turned off in the MCM SexFight page, in which case things will work as they did before).   Frenzied enemies fight with each other and an even kill each other. Frenzy lasts for a while, but it is not permanent. How long it lasts on each individual depends on how intense their SexFight orgasms were.
- Frenzy is an alternative outcome to paralysis (but not to death). Right now if there are valid enemies that could fight with each other at the end of a SexFight, that would have gotten paralyzed, enemies no longer get paralyzed, they get frenzied instead .  You as the player after an AAF scene, should quickly distance yourself from any frenzied enemies and let them deal with each other. 
- Paralysis should still occur as before at end of a sexfight  if
                - a super mutant suicider is involved in the aggressor group  
                - if there are not enough valid enemies left alive to fight with each other (just one valid enemy)

 

- Corrected a bug where body piercings would erroneously be in the player's possession after being browsed on the hologram but not purchased.

- Corrected a bug where Sturges's sanctuary chores quest would wait for the bonus Wedge stages to be done before it could complete
- Solved an edge case where a non bimbo player character could not refuse working with Wedge (But a Bimbo level 1 could refuse) .  Now all non bimbos, Bimbo level 0 ,  Bimbo level 1  or 2 should have an option to refuse entering a scene with Wedge, after their dialogue with him.  Bimbo's level 3 and above can't refuse Wedge. 
- more fine tuning on Sanctuary's bimbo solves

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

seems like a pretty fun mod so far, but did have a few questions.   My 1st couple attempts at the mod, started at 7233.   1st scene of 90 sec and 1 orgasm led to 100 sex level and turned into a slut.   After another set of violate rounds (limb crit again) became a bimbo and not long after bimbo 2.   One round of molerats (crit again....) and was level 3.   Few friendly rounds with settlers and one violate round and was 4.   Next one was mostly gangbang variety each round and that got me to 5.   Made level 6 just questing and one round of friendly sex got me to level 7.   I was successful on around 90% of the challenges and managed to paralyze or kill all the foes after bimbo 2.   Not sure how you are going to not become bimbo 7 with default settings unless I am doing something completely wrong.   I did notice that the one time I did the Wedge scene in sanctuary and had sexfight turned off I was unable to answer any challenges even with a full or 75% AP bar as it said not enough AP (think this was around Bimbo 2)

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

seems like a pretty fun mod so far, but did have a few questions.   My 1st couple attempts at the mod, started at 7233.   1st scene of 90 sec and 1 orgasm led to 100 sex level and turned into a slut.   After another set of violate rounds (limb crit again) became a bimbo and not long after bimbo 2.   One round of molerats (crit again....) and was level 3.   Few friendly rounds with settlers and one violate round and was 4.   Next one was mostly gangbang variety each round and that got me to 5.   Made level 6 just questing and one round of friendly sex got me to level 7.   I was successful on around 90% of the challenges and managed to paralyze or kill all the foes after bimbo 2.   Not sure how you are going to not become bimbo 7 with default settings unless I am doing something completely wrong.   I did notice that the one time I did the Wedge scene in sanctuary and had sexfight turned off I was unable to answer any challenges even with a full or 75% AP bar as it said not enough AP (think this was around Bimbo 2)

Hello

Thank you so much for playing it and for the feedback! The current development defaults are not necessarily what will be the 1.0 defaults. 

The summary is: If you do not use any of the options that the mod puts at your disposal to slow down your bimbo progression, and instead have all the "sacrifice my stats just to win this one sexfight"  type settings turned on, and jump into overly difficult fights one after the other, means you will "burn" through your stats like a hot knife through butter,  and will end up being a high-level bimbo in no time.

There is more, summarized in the post below. 
 

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

ok so basically if I read that right, you should avoid sexfight for mobs that are stronger then you (those that give warnings).   My character runs almost maxed willpower so I can tap into that to give an AP boost.   I have already been using the options like clothes, piercings etc so have that covered.   If you have sex with companions and settlers often should you use sexfight (options toggled off) to help increase the orgasm level and affinity?

[MSM_Alice]

48 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

ok so basically if I read that right, you should avoid sexfight for mobs that are stronger then you (those that give warnings).   My character runs almost maxed willpower so I can tap into that to give an AP boost. 

Either avoid those fights until you are stronger/higher level, or accept you might not have enough AP for them yet, accept that those challenges are too tough for you and the price you're paying for winning them by burning your stats and falling faster into max bimbo-hood is just too high. 
You can toggle those " overburn" type settings  (that burn your stats just to win a certain sexfight that normally you couldn't win) off in the Device menu-> SexFight.

The more I think about it the more I realize that maybe I should start with them turned off, and perhaps prompt for them to be turned on the first time you encounter a difficult NPC. 
Those settings are extraordinary measures to be used only in emergencies (if you care about your bimbo level that is).

 

(Just realized I have typos in the DEV menu items Paralisys there, should be - Paralysis, :D), and Chage instead of Change. 
Pfft... going to fix them now
toggle Spend should be Toggle Spending so that it is consistent.
How did I forget about cleaning up this menu

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

5 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

 If you have sex with companions and settlers often should you use sexfight (options toggled off) to help increase the orgasm level and affinity?

You can have Sexfight set to ON (have the challenges occur and whatnot) but you can  toggle off the NPC punishments that would occur at the end  (no paralysis , frenzy, or death) so the SexFight is done just for fun/gaining affinity, and not harming the NPC. 
For increasing affinity with friendlies via high quality orgasms,  Sexfight needs to be on (but punishments are probably best be off in that case).

You have two separate hotkeys  as "emergency brake" that you can access even mid-way an AAF scene.
A. One of them turns off Sexfight altogether for the current scene, so challenges stop happening (demanded by some users for roleplay purposes). In this case outstanding orgasm occur or not strictly based on your Bimbo passives, and no NPC punishment is done at the end either way.

B. the other just turns off and on (toggle) the punishments for NPC that would occur at the end, but the Sexfight logic (challenges and whatnot) still work, so you can still use your active skills (answering challenges), to create outstanding orgasms/gain affinity and do so without risking harming the NPCs

 

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

Yes, thanks for the help.   I can use friendlies to lower stats as they use little AP and you can spam the hotkey, same with Wedge.   Now the Sex Attributes are staying at a low level.   The Deathclaw during the scene to help Preston is extremely difficult at low level (as it should be) so after getting worked by it and using the emergency break only got the actual bimbo rating but avoided mindbreak and extreme bimbo stats.   After resting and a few rounds with the settlers all the stats were lowered to normal levels.   Now I guess I just have to decide what Bimbo Level I want to be at to get the most use of it and the options available.  

 

On a side note the Music is serious banger level!  Would love to have this as a soundtrack as its funny as hell and fun to listen to!

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

Yes, thanks for the help.   I can use friendlies to lower stats as they use little AP and you can spam the hotkey, same with Wedge.   Now the Sex Attributes are staying at a low level.   The Deathclaw during the scene to help Preston is extremely difficult at low level (as it should be) so after getting worked by it and using the emergency break only got the actual bimbo rating but avoided mindbreak and extreme bimbo stats.   After resting and a few rounds with the settlers all the stats were lowered to normal levels.   Now I guess I just have to decide what Bimbo Level I want to be at to get the most use of it and the options available.  

 

On a side note the Music is serious banger level!  Would love to have this as a soundtrack as its funny as hell and fun to listen to!

 

 

Here is the music as separate mp3 audio files if you want it . What's your fave? 

On the deathclaw aspect: Yes, to keep perspective on things a deathclaw encounter, (if you have those animations installed and enabled in Violate), is supposed to be a deeply traumatic event, not something casual. That's no "beauty and the beast" story. 
On my playthroughs I do tend to shoot it, with actual bullets.

I am building a new release where those "overburn" settings are default off, and the first time they'd be needed there's a small explanation about what they do and the player will be prompted if they want them on or off. 
Also the player will flash purple when answering a Challenge with the aid of "overburn" options, instead of light blue, so it is more obvious that it is not all positive.
I think it might be better this way.

That and sorting out a few quirks with the new frenzy system (I think it is objectively more fun than just paralysis), and fixing the typos in that menu. 
And adding some extra dialogue for Wedge in later stages of his side quest so he sounds less like an automaton going though the motions, but an actual human being.

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

The frenzy update might still have some quirks with violate scenes ( works just fine on non violate ones though). 
An update is in order. I'm debugging now. 

 

You can probably still use 0.7240 if you turn off frenzy in the MCM, and work just will kill and paralysis as before.

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

anything in this mod that would break power armor? the last playthrough when I go into the power armor it was like I was not wearing it in that there were many missing pieces and it was not acting like you were inside it (didnt have the str to pull the mini-gun, almost died when jumping off building etc)

 

this did not happen the 1st couple of times I did it but turned off a few of the NR files that were specific to that mod that are not being used by this one.   I also updated to 7240.   can turn them back on and downgrade to 7233 to check if one of those two things did it.

Edited March 22, 2025 by Mimirue17

[Mimirue17]

On 3/15/2025 at 2:20 AM, MSM_Alice said:

Ok I think I have plenty of music for the next release. 
This was so much fun.

 

 

WOW this could be some of the best ever Fallout 4 music!!!  2 and 4 are probably my favs but they are all good.   6 was a surprise and love it!

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

anything in this mod that would break power armor? the last playthrough when I go into the power armor it was like I was not wearing it in that there were many missing pieces and it was not acting like you were inside it (didnt have the str to pull the mini-gun, almost died when jumping off building etc)

 

this did not happen the 1st couple of times I did it but turned off a few of the NR files that were specific to that mod that are not being used by this one.   I also updated to 7240.   can turn them back on and downgrade to 7233 to check if one of those two things did it.

 

 

0.7240 was broken but for another reason, it wouldn't apply consequences post sexfight in Violate scenes, because I had forgotten an " elseif" statement. 
Should be fixed now, here is an early version of 0.7242  the next update that I am going to upload now, and will test it more.

On the power armor topic: There should be no special interplay with power armor whatsoever, the power armor thing is likely from those other files. 

Edit: had forgotten a debug sound in that was being played when NPC were being paralyzed or frenzied ,
added 0.7243 with this fix below.

Edited March 22, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

ChangeLog

 

0.7243 - Solves critical bug in 0.7240 where SexFight consequences wouldn't be applied at all at the end of Violate scenes. 

- further polished frenzied mechanics conditions and edge cases, tweaked menu content and dialogue lines to reference frenzied state and paralysis state (and not just paralysis state) 
- changed default settings to start without Auto-spend Self Esteem, Auto spend Willpower,  Auto Increase Sex Addition and Auto increase Bimbo Stat on AP already set to ON. They are now all OFF by default when a new game is started. The player is prompted if they want to turn them on one by one the first time the need arises (a mini tutorialization on them is done on the spot). This should drive more awareness of their special status.
-  When the player answers sex challenge tapping into one of these extraordinary methods of AP generation, and not just with their normal AP pool alone, the player will flash purple instead of blue to underline that the situation is special. 
- Typos correcting and minor bug fixing.
 

 

 

Sex Fight Color codes (the purple part is the change/addition)

• NPC outline Flashes blue (for about 2 seconds): [call to action] They issued a sex challenge, and you would better answer it. (the faster the better) 
• Player outline flashes blue (very quickly): [status confirmation] You have successfully answered the above challenge on time using your standard AP pool. Good job!  
• Player Outline Flashes purple: [status confirmation] You have successfully answered the above challenge on time using "overdrive" methods of emergency AP generation, because you didn't normally have enough AP.  Good job, but be careful, abusing those "overdrives" can have side effects!  
• Player outline flashes red: [status confirmation] You missed answering a challenge (did not see it, did not have enough AP, or some other reason). 
• NPC outline flashes orange: [status confirmation: marked for paralysis or frenzy] That NPC got to a mind-blowing-tier orgasm (and paralysis or frenzy is on). They are as good as paralyzed (or frenzied) at the end of the scene. This signaling only happens once per NPC per scene, if this is a scene with more actors, you need to pay attention to keep track of who is 'cooked' and who is not. 
• NPC outline flashes red: [status confirmation: marked for death] They got a Galactic Orgasm (and death by orgasm is on in the settings).  This signaling too only happens once per NPC per scene, you need to pay attention). They are as good as dead at the end, if this scene involves more actors, you can probably focus on others now.
• Player outline flashes green: [status confirmation] You pressed the action button outside of a valid NPC challenge, you are now consuming some AP to reduce your pleasure and avoid getting overwhelmed.
• Player outline flashes yellow: [status confirmation] You tried to reduce your pleasure but did not have enough AP to do so effectively, it barely produced a small effect on your arousal still better than nothing. 

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[bobsandwich]

are you planning on doing eleven labs voices or voiced dialogues?

[MSM_Alice]

2 minutes ago, bobsandwich said:

are you planning on doing eleven labs voices or voiced dialogues?

At some point, sure

[Mimirue17]

hmm very odd, with this mod installed I have the Power Armor Frame missing bug - very common in the distant past.   I disabled this mod and the PA worked fine.   While this mod probably does not cause it in itself, combined with with another mod(s) it does.   Now to do the fun(ish) part and start disabling things until I find the culprit .   These were on clean starts so as not to have any corrupt scripts laying around.   I will fist test it fresh from the vault without talking to anyone, besides the entity at the vault entrance, and god mode kill everything on the way there to avoid any physical contact with anything.

I suspect some conflict as the fist time I activate the hologram it no longer works.   Save and reload and its fine from that point, so time to do some reinstalling of mods (start with NR as this mod uses alot of its assets currently)

Edited March 23, 2025 by Mimirue17

[jah6065]

Hey I love this mod so much, but every time you release an updated, I always start a new game which is perfectly fine for me, but is there anyway that you can skip though the dialog quicker. Is there a way to skip through it quicker or do we have to go through the whole dialog before we can get really started with the mod?

[MSM_Alice]

5 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

hmm very odd, with this mod installed I have the Power Armor Frame missing bug - very common in the distant past.   I disabled this mod and the PA worked fine.   While this mod probably does not cause it in itself, combined with with another mod(s) it does.   Now to do the fun(ish) part and start disabling things until I find the culprit .   These were on clean starts so as not to have any corrupt scripts laying around.   I will fist test it fresh from the vault without talking to anyone, besides the entity at the vault entrance, and god mode kill everything on the way there to avoid any physical contact with anything.

I suspect some conflict as the fist time I activate the hologram it no longer works.   Save and reload and its fine from that point, so time to do some reinstalling of mods (start with NR as this mod uses alot of its assets currently)

Actually you might be on to something. 
I do some extensive unequipping on both the player and the player double, and I might be unequipping more than needed when I activate the hologram.
I loop through all slots from 1 to 61 instead of 30 to 61, and make an exception for the base mesh. 

Maybe in those slots from 1 to 29 there is something that should not be unequipped..
Will push an update where the hologram will only loop from slot 30 to 61 for any unequip/copy equip.
Maybe that is it.

Edited March 24, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, jah6065 said:

Hey I love this mod so much, but every time you release an updated, I always start a new game which is perfectly fine for me, but is there anyway that you can skip though the dialog quicker. Is there a way to skip through it quicker or do we have to go through the whole dialog before we can get really started with the mod?

Unfortunately no way to skip dialogue for now. 
Will keep it in mind though, for future updates. 

Also I found a bug in the " seamless version updater" 
Apparently In the papyrus script,  comparison between floats on the forth digit after the decimal pint retrn false when true. 
That might have caused problem with version updates ( and caused you to always start a new game). 


For instance, when i do 
if Version_float < 0.7247
returns FALSE when the version_float is 0.7246 . This is nuts. FML.

means I should only increment versions in such a way  so they have a significant difference on the third digit past the decimal point to be safe (not lower), if I want the auto upgrader to correctly detect the version change.
 

Edited March 24, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

10 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

hmm very odd, with this mod installed I have the Power Armor Frame missing bug - very common in the distant past.   I disabled this mod and the PA worked fine.   While this mod probably does not cause it in itself, combined with with another mod(s) it does.   Now to do the fun(ish) part and start disabling things until I find the culprit .   These were on clean starts so as not to have any corrupt scripts laying around.   I will fist test it fresh from the vault without talking to anyone, besides the entity at the vault entrance, and god mode kill everything on the way there to avoid any physical contact with anything.

I suspect some conflict as the fist time I activate the hologram it no longer works.   Save and reload and its fine from that point, so time to do some reinstalling of mods (start with NR as this mod uses alot of its assets currently)

MSMA_v0_7250.zipTry this one with a brand new game, and let me know if the bug still occurs.
 

 

Changelog: 0.7250 - Solves more bugs, a new game is probably best

1. found a bug in the seamless updater, apparently upgrade operations wouldn't be done unless the version number was different on the third digit past the decimal point. As far as papyrus is concerned 0.7246 is not a value that is smaller than 0.7247  (!!!)  when checked with an if statement. Best to start a new version on this one. 
2. realized that I was too enthusiastic on the hologram equipping/unequipping methods, as was messing with all item slots from slot 1 to 61, when in fact should be only slot 30 to 61. Corrected now but a new game is needed.
3. Removed some redundant options in the MCM
4. Added a button to reset Marina to her prelude spot if anything causes her to go away. 
5. Added an option to auto play music on a highly successful sexfight outcome (parameters configurable on the music page)
6. Moved Sexfight AP cost scaler option on the SexFight MCM page from the General Settings page
7. Added option to Enable/Disable MSMAs internal item theft system ( post Aggression consequence) - before it was always on.
8. More text edits/ typos correcting
9. Solved a bug with Hand and Feet Appearance variable- it would go infinitely up when equipping new Manicure/Pedicure items.
10. Increased importance of Chest size in overall appearance score. 
11. corrected hotkey mapping in Nails Holo-Preview mode (Delete and PageDn were reversed)
12. prevented intrusive thoughts to appear in Notifications during AAF scenes or in Marina's hologram mode.
13. corrected an error with some of the  higher level bimbo cravings that will always appear in the report as if they were just done, even though they were not done. This went on until they happened for the first time for real, then they were correct. Now they are correct from the start (but a new game is needed).

Edited March 24, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

MSMA_v0_7250.zipTry this one with a brand new game, and let me know if the bug still occurs.
 

 

Changelog : 0.7250 - Solves more bugs, a new game is probably best

1. found a bug in the seamless updater, apparently upgrade operations wouldn't be done unless version number was different on the third digit past the decimal point. As far as papyrus is concerned 0.7246 is not a value that is smaller than 0.7247  (!!!)  when checked with an if statement. Best to start a new version on this one. 
2. realized that I was too enthusiastic on the hologram equipping/unequipping methods, as was messing with all item slots from slot 1 to 61, when in fact should be only slot 30 to 61. Corrected now but a new game is needed.
3. Removed some redundant options in the MCM
4. Added a button to reset Marina to her prelude spot if anything causes her to go away. 
5. Added an option to auto play music on a highly successful sexfight outcome (parameters configurable on the music page)
6. Moved Sexfight AP cost scaler option on the SexFight MCM page from the General Settings PAge
7. Added option to Enable/Disable MSMAs internal item theft system ( post Aggression consequence) - before it was always on.
8. More text edits/ typos correcting
9. Solved a bug with Hand and Feet Appearance variable- it would go infinitely up when equipping new Manicure/Pedicure items.
10. Increased important of Chest size in overall appearance score. 
11. corrected hotkey mapping in Nails Holo-Preview mode (Delete and PageDn were reversed)
12. prevented intrusive thoughts to appear in Notifications during AAF scenes or in Marina's hologram mode.
13. corrected an error with some of the  higher level bimbo cravings that will always appear in the report as if they were just done, even though they were not done. This went on until they happened for the first time for real, then they were correct. Now they are correct from the start (but a new game is needed).

on it, will let you know if it fixes the PA issue soon!

[Mimirue17]

4 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

MSMA_v0_7250.zipTry this one with a brand new game, and let me know if the bug still occurs.
 

 

Changelog: 0.7250 - Solves more bugs, a new game is probably best

1. found a bug in the seamless updater, apparently upgrade operations wouldn't be done unless the version number was different on the third digit past the decimal point. As far as papyrus is concerned 0.7246 is not a value that is smaller than 0.7247  (!!!)  when checked with an if statement. Best to start a new version on this one. 
2. realized that I was too enthusiastic on the hologram equipping/unequipping methods, as was messing with all item slots from slot 1 to 61, when in fact should be only slot 30 to 61. Corrected now but a new game is needed.
3. Removed some redundant options in the MCM
4. Added a button to reset Marina to her prelude spot if anything causes her to go away. 
5. Added an option to auto play music on a highly successful sexfight outcome (parameters configurable on the music page)
6. Moved Sexfight AP cost scaler option on the SexFight MCM page from the General Settings page
7. Added option to Enable/Disable MSMAs internal item theft system ( post Aggression consequence) - before it was always on.
8. More text edits/ typos correcting
9. Solved a bug with Hand and Feet Appearance variable- it would go infinitely up when equipping new Manicure/Pedicure items.
10. Increased importance of Chest size in overall appearance score. 
11. corrected hotkey mapping in Nails Holo-Preview mode (Delete and PageDn were reversed)
12. prevented intrusive thoughts to appear in Notifications during AAF scenes or in Marina's hologram mode.
13. corrected an error with some of the  higher level bimbo cravings that will always appear in the report as if they were just done, even though they were not done. This went on until they happened for the first time for real, then they were correct. Now they are correct from the start (but a new game is needed).

This worked real well, and solved the PA glitch as well!

 

I have crashed a few times on the scenes with Wedge if the scene ends real close to key activation of sexfight, like within a few seconds.  Will just try to avoid using the hotkey near the end of the encounter as it should not matter by that point.

[MSM_Alice]

6 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

This worked real well, and solved the PA glitch as well!

 

I have crashed a few times on the scenes with Wedge if the scene ends real close to key activation of sexfight, like within a few seconds.  Will just try to avoid using the hotkey near the end of the encounter as it should not matter by that point.

Great to hear on the PA bug!
Thank you for testing and mentioning it in conjunction with the hologram, that's what made the connection!


Did not yet get to crash Wedge encounters, but there might be something fishy there. 
Are there any papyrus logs or crash logs that you can share from that crash session?

[MSM_Alice]

53 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

This worked real well, and solved the PA glitch as well!

 

I have crashed a few times on the scenes with Wedge if the scene ends real close to key activation of sexfight, like within a few seconds.  Will just try to avoid using the hotkey near the end of the encounter as it should not matter by that point.

Here is a new version. Can you still get the Wedge crash to occur? (safe to update mid-game)
MSMA_v0_7251.zipI put some extra checks to guard against a challenge starting, an then the sexfight ending before it is answered and suddenly being in a scenario where the number of participants is set to 0, and still trying to process a challenge start while the number of participants could arguably be 0. 

Edited March 24, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

25 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Here is a new version. Can you still get the Wedge crash to occur? (safe to update mid-game)
MSMA_v0_7251.zipI put some extra checks to guard against a challenge starting, an then the sexfight ending before it is answered and suddenly being in a scenario where the number of participants is set to 0, and still trying to process a challenge start while the number of participants could arguably be 0. 

here is the crash log - have to remember where buffout puts it crashes and will do that as well.   I will make a save right before the wedge scenes and try it as many times as it takes to get it in that same situation that was crashing it.

crash-2025-03-24-07-18-55.log