Devious Newcomer (Alt Start Quest)

[El_Duderino]

16 hours ago, stickpin said:

In your script fragment when the stage is changed you move the instance to the marker location.  You can first check the instance and if it doesn't exist in the game create it.

Thanks, that looks like a neat trick for some extra safety.

 

Glad to hear that you could resolve the issue with "console magic". The prid command probably didn't work because I listed the formID of the actor, not the referenceID which that command apparently looks for. And who knows if the actor was actually missing, or if he didn't just break out of his wait package and wander off for whatever reason (maybe a fight broke out in the area or something).

[stickpin]

5 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Thanks, that looks like a neat trick for some extra safety.

 

Glad to hear that you could resolve the issue with "console magic". The prid command probably didn't work because I listed the formID of the actor, not the referenceID which that command apparently looks for. And who knows if the actor was actually missing, or if he didn't just break out of his wait package and wander off for whatever reason (maybe a fight broke out in the area or something).

 

Ah, that makes sense about the referenceID being needed instead.  Knowing that I poked around a bit more and found another handy command - "save funclist 1".  This will apparently list all references in the game.  Using that I was able to find out my actions created a duplicate (so original plus 2 from this mod).  I went back to an earlier save and this time was able to use prid to get the reference to the proper spot.  So there was an instance all along but just not in the correct spot.

 

From there I played a bit more and started hitting other issues.  While the quest stages, objectives, and dialog topics were working other aspects were not.  I decided to try starting a new game again as more and more it seemed things were bugged with this save.  After starting the new game it wouldn't even let me start the quest with "StartQuest AR_DeviousAltStart".  Apparently I have something seriously wrong with my setup when the game won't even start quests.

 

Time to strip back everything and figure out what is running amok.  Ah the joys of modding and the time sink that comes with that to get everything playing nice.  

[El_Duderino]

2 hours ago, stickpin said:

Ah the joys of modding and the time sink that comes with that to get everything playing nice.

The last time my game unspooled like that, I had a bunch of suspended stacks in my savegame, probably right from starting the game. Re-Saver (FallRim Tools) can show them when you load the savegame in it. Since then, I always check my savegames before I start a new playthrough or at the end of a play session.

[stickpin]

Yeah, I checked Re-Saver and the save was clean, both the initial popup notice and using the filters to find stuff in the save.  I also tried starting a brand new game (vs starting from any save).  I haven't played Skyrim in a couple of years and so when I came back I updated everything basically, game and mods.  In fact this mod and Ebonitium was a big reason I decided to do another playthrough so I could experience them.  So far I'm loving this mod and it seems well done and nicely balanced on tasks vs tedium.

 

In the past I've always just jammed everything into the startup mod wise in a single go and then when I start a new game I let it chew for several minutes.  Then I take even longer to walk through the options and set everything.  Between that and doing the updates (with some possible remnants around) it could be I simply blew the games engines mind and overloaded it. 

 

I've been meaning to setup a phased approach where I can switch profiles to start with basic mods --> start a game --> add a batch of mods --> run the game to let it catch up then save and so on until I have the full setup I want in place.  Then I can play it like normal from that point.  I've just never invested the time.  I decided to go nuclear here and just do that.  I cleared out all traces, installed the game fresh, and now I'm working through building out mod startup phases and checking the logs and saves for issues as I go.  I expect that'll let me better spot instability or issues from conflicting mods or simply outdated stuff that doesn't work with the current game version.  It'll also give me flexibility to build up a targeted playthrough for specific use cases for mods where I can cut away excess.

[Mister X]

Heyho, I have a bug report for you:

 

SCENARIO:

during the second task (fetching skooma, hammer&tongs and empty bottles) I went to Keerava for the empty bottles.

 

After a bit of dialogue I told her "Sorry, I don't have that much" to which she responded "You don't even have fifty gold? Well, none of my business. The offer stands if you can get the gold.".

I fetched the 50 gold, but now I don't have any dialogue for the bottles anymore when speaking to Keerava. Other NPCs still have the line and tell me to search in the trash or ask at the inn.

 

ERROR:

I did a bit of digging in xEdit and it seems like this Topic Info [xx04267D] "You don't even have fifty gold? [...]" has a fragment attached to it. I deduct it sets a property named "RiftenInnReturnTopic" to TRUE. Not that much of a problem, but your TopicInfo [xx42675] "Ah, good, you're back. So I take it you still want the empty bottles? [...]?" only shows up if you carry at least 20 firewood. And the old one [xx042672] "Empty bottles? Well, you are at an inn, aren't you? [...]" gets hidden by said property "RiftenInnReturnTopic".

 

POSSIBLE SOULTION:

You missed another condition for the 50 gold. Like "player has at least 20 firewood OR at least 50 gold".

 

Or maybe, the more complex but better solution: two separate topics when you return, one when you chose gold, the other when you chose firewood. Both check whether their specific condition is met. If yes you get the bottles, if not you either can return later or switch to the other payment option.

 

For me I fixed it by changing the condition for the firewood at topic [xx42675] to instead check if that property is true.

[Mister X]

Oh and a small feature request:

maybe it would be possible to put some place to sleep for the player into Beggar's Row, to be a bit more survival mod friendly?

[El_Duderino]

3 hours ago, Mister X said:

Heyho, I have a bug report for you:

Thanks very much for the detailed bug report! I must have missed that dialogue path during my tests and in my latest playthrough. I'll fix that and also check on the bedroll availability. There is one in Beggar's row in my game, but perhaps that gets added by another mod.

[Mister X]

On 5/18/2025 at 5:41 PM, El_Duderino said:

Thanks very much for the detailed bug report! I must have missed that dialogue path during my tests and in my latest playthrough. I'll fix that and also check on the bedroll availability. There is one in Beggar's row in my game, but perhaps that gets added by another mod.

 

Yeah, after the report I went back into game and recognized that the ONLY available option when coming back is the firewood branch. So I'd suggest two new topics: one to come back and ask for other payment options, and one once you got the gold.

 

In total, the topic branches could go like this:

First time:

ask for bottles > choose either firewood or gold as payment

 

Sec time:

enough of chosen resource > remove that and get bottles

not enough > tell about payment option > topic to get to know of alternative payment

 

Sth like "if you can't scrape together that gold, I always need firewood for the room" or in reverse "if you're not able to fetch that wood, gold is always an option".

 

Anytime after that

One resource > remove that and get bottles

both resources > option to choose what to pay with > remove that and give bottles

no resource > tell payment options again

 

I know, that's probably the most complex setup, though you won't have any way to get hardstuck. 

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, Mister X said:

I know, that's probably the most complex setup, though you won't have any way to get hardstuck. 

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll set up something like that.

I bet this issue never occured to me in testing because I (obviously) already know the outcomes of each existing dialogue and what needs to be done afterwards.

[Mister X]

Heyho,

 

I created voice files for this mod with another method than xVASynth. The model and my workflow are still in dev, though I think the lines are overall more realistic sounding.

The main advantages are less artifacts (robotic sound) when voice cloning and more control over emotions.

 

The biggest problems I identified so far are unnatural speaking paces (too long pauses with faster speech afterwards) and differences in loudness.

Another thing are lip movements, they tend to be off even though I use the official tools. That's just optical though.

 

So it's still WIP, buthere's the first try:

Devious Newcomer Voices Alternative.zip

[Mister X]

Heyho @El_Duderino

 

just a small compatibility / QOL request: is it possible to spread "generic" dialogue to all people in Riften?

 

As an example, I have mods installed that generically place NPCs all around Skyrim and it's a bit weird if you only can beg certain passers-by for money.

I'm totally fine with some outcomes being available only with hand-picked individuals, I just mean the generic stuff like "Sorry, don't have spare money" or the "look for bottles in the trash" stuff.

 

Maybe just change some dialogue conditions from "being in Riften faction" to "being in Riften location" where it makes sense that anybody might say that.

[WaxenFigure]

Looking at the description of the mod I noted you have problems with grey face bugs.
 

The major cause of this bug is when the FACEGEN NIF file doesn't match the NPC record, when the NIF file and the NPC record do not match for ANY headpart listed in both then Skyrim will NOT use the NIF and it's associated Texture and will instead create the ugliest head it can come up with based on the NPC record except it uses a horrific texture for the face which will of course be the wrong skin color.

Specifically, the headparts listed in the NPC record should match the headparts listed in the FACEGEN NIF with of course exceptions.  What you want to put in the NPC record is the Eyes, Brows, Hair, Marks (if any) and Beard (if any).  You do not need the head, mouth or any hairparts except the main Hair but if you do add any of those they MUST match the NIF file.

Another common mistake is failing to perform the CTRL-F4 in the Creation Kit to create the NIF file and it's associated face Texture files in the first place.  Not having a NIF file is the same as not having it match.

An easy way to create a new NPC these days is to start a new game and then build the HEAD you want for your new character in RACEMENU as the dragonborn for that new game (no need to "save" or "play" that new game unless you want to).  In Racemenu once you've got your character set up with the race they will eventually be in your mod then Export the Head as a Preset in Racemenu AND also export a NIF for that head in the Sculpt tab of RaceMenu.  The Preset will give you a starting point to use if you decide to change the character's look a bit.  The NIF file and it's associated texture need only to be renamed to match the EditID of the NPC and placed in the appropriate folders for those headparts within your mod.  Then you can use NIFScope to find the headparts list and SSEEDIT to put the required headparts in the NPC record.  

In YOUR mod I suspect the greyface bug you are seeing has to do with your Brynjolf clone.  Since you really aren't changing Brynjolf in any way I would recommend you change the NPC record for your clone to use the real Brynjolf NPC record as a Template so YOUR Brynjolf will exactly match any beautification mod that is applied to Brynjolf and will in fact use the NIF and Texture from the original Brynjolf (select "Use Traits" in the Template flags) so your clone will look the same as the one that's found in the Marketplace.

I haven't tried your mod yet but I hope this information helps you with this mod and any others you are contemplating.

[El_Duderino]

On 7/31/2025 at 4:18 AM, WaxenFigure said:

I hope this information helps you with this mod and any others you are contemplating.

Thank you for the detailed and very helpful information. I really appreciate it!

 

The part about using racemenu to build the faces was entirely new to me -- that sounds like a powerful way to create more detailed faces than in the somewhat clumsy sculpting interface in the CK.

 

I've been creating all my NPCs exclusively in the CK until now and done the Ctrl-F4 thing for them. I could never figure out why this mod caused trouble but never considered the Brynjolf NPC clone being a possible cause of the issues. It also didn't occur to me that my way of building a complete "standalone" clone of the NPC would clash with NPC beautification mods (which I don't use in my game). That then is an issue for almost all of my mods... I'll try to address that.

[WaxenFigure]

On 8/2/2025 at 2:55 AM, El_Duderino said:

Thank you for the detailed and very helpful information. I really appreciate it!

 

The part about using racemenu to build the faces was entirely new to me -- that sounds like a powerful way to create more detailed faces than in the somewhat clumsy sculpting interface in the CK.

 

I've been creating all my NPCs exclusively in the CK until now and done the Ctrl-F4 thing for them. I could never figure out why this mod caused trouble but never considered the Brynjolf NPC clone being a possible cause of the issues. It also didn't occur to me that my way of building a complete "standalone" clone of the NPC would clash with NPC beautification mods (which I don't use in my game). That then is an issue for almost all of my mods... I'll try to address that.

It was an epiphany when I found an EASY way to make high quality faces.  Of particular note (which I forgot to add), Skyrim DOESN'T use the directory information in the <formid>.NIF file to find the <formid>.DDS file for the head, it always uses it's own built path and file name so there's no requirement to even fix that.  Whatever file path and name is has is ignored, you just have to put the DDS file in the right place with the right name and Skyrim will find it.  There's some awkward program that works for LE heads only that a lot of instructions will have you use to get those paths and names correct but it's actually not needed.  That removes the need to convert the head to LE format, fix the path and then convert it back to SE format that some would have you do.

[mcdyn]

I played this mod on my new game start again, and it worked really well as a prequel before starting the story of another mod called Thief, it was perfect, I earned a good amount of money as newcommer for some son of a bitch to steal it all from me later (laughs), thank you

[El_Duderino]

@mcdyn Thank you for the very kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the mod.

[steamst]

On 3/11/2025 at 3:24 PM, thebombers said:

I'm sure it's an issue with my mods or load order, but for some reason I just cannot get this mod to work. Every time I load into the start of the quest, immediate CTD. I'm trying to get it going with Skyrim Unbound, since I usually use Live Another Life, but using the console command definitely doesn't work. If I can't get it working with the Unbound patch, I'll see about uploading a crash log.

 

EDIT: Okay yeah confirmed, it doesn't work if I start it via Skyrim Unbound either. :c

 

DOUBLE EDIT: I tried again today but this time I disabled the FaceGen Patch and so far everything is working fine. So I think it's an issue with the FaceGen Patch!

Console command does not work for me as well. However, no CDT. Simply nothing happens. Disable FaceGen does not fix it.

I use VR. I tried with a new game, but not with Skyrim Unbound.

Why not add a MCM with a "Start Quest" option, or start the Quest right away, when the player travels in the area where the teleport goes?

[El_Duderino]

4 hours ago, steamst said:

Console command does not work for me as well. However, no CDT. Simply nothing happens. Disable FaceGen does not fix it.

I use VR. I tried with a new game, but not with Skyrim Unbound.

Why not add a MCM with a "Start Quest" option, or start the Quest right away, when the player travels in the area where the teleport goes?

Hi,  I don't know anything about Skyrim VR and have no way of telling if the mod is compatible or not. What follows is just guesswork on my part:

 

Can you try to start the quest via the console command "SetStage AR_DeviousAltStart 0", or if that doesn't work "SetStage AR_DeviousAltStart 1" ? 

 

As far as I understand it, the facegen fix mod that I linked is unlikely to blame, as that works globally for all loaded mods. I can't think of a reason how that mod could cause issues in this mod but work for others.

 

An MCM or trigger-based startup are unlikely to help, as it would do the same as the console commands (just with their papyrus counterparts).

[steamst]

3 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Can you try to start the quest via the console command "SetStage AR_DeviousAltStart 0", or if that doesn't work "SetStage AR_DeviousAltStart 1" ? 

 

 

Does not work either. Could it be that I am prohibited from teleporting for some reason?

[El_Duderino]

10 hours ago, steamst said:

Does not work either. Could it be that I am prohibited from teleporting for some reason?

Maybe? I don't know... I've never any trouble with the quest start (or other "moveto" commands) in my game.

 

Does your game fade to black for a moment when you try to start the quest? If it does, that means that the quest scripts are firing and the issue must be somewhere else.

 

It could be that quest aliases don't fill when the quest starts in your game. Can you run this console command "SQV AR_DeviousAltStart" after starting the quest? That'll generate several lines of output in the console, through which you can scroll via the PageUp/Down keys. Look for any NONE entries in the output, these likely mean trouble.

[steamst]

11 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Maybe? I don't know... I've never any trouble with the quest start (or other "moveto" commands) in my game.

 

Does your game fade to black for a moment when you try to start the quest? If it does, that means that the quest scripts are firing and the issue must be somewhere else.

 

It could be that quest aliases don't fill when the quest starts in your game. Can you run this console command "SQV AR_DeviousAltStart" after starting the quest? That'll generate several lines of output in the console, through which you can scroll via the PageUp/Down keys. Look for any NONE entries in the output, these likely mean trouble.

There are many NONE entries. Adventurers and more people...

 

I reinstalled the mod and now I got teleported.

UPDATE: I think I will give up by now.

 

After the teleport to the crash site, the 3 guys left to fight some deer and a small group of travelers went by. The guys came back, I talked to the leader and we decided to go to Riften. (I was tempted to pickpocket clothing and shoes; there was no way to interact with the bandit when I noticed he has all my stuff in his inventory ^^)
In Riften I had no idea where to go. A questmarker pointed to Honeyside, but Honeyside was locked. I searched everywhere for a key, but no avail. Picking was impossible as well. I gave up and by chance visited the beggars place. There I found one lady in latex, but she did not talk to me.

(I have to admit that I did not check the quest list, what quests I had a marker active, but as it has been a new game, there where not much options)

I finally gave up and decided to start over from the beginning again.

Now I don't get teleported, again, when I try to start quest by console. SQV reports the missing NPCs, again.

Maybe the quest just does not like me or VR.
Anyway, still my regards for your work and your contribution to the community.
 

Edited December 30, 2025 by steamst

[steamst]

On 6/10/2024 at 10:46 AM, El_Duderino said:

 

Huh. I even have the functionality for that already implemented in my other mod (removed items get placed in a container for later access). I can implement that in this mod easily -- for now I've added a warning to the mod page. I guess this potential issue didn't occur to me because Unbound only ever equips generic base game items at the start and losing those is of no consequence.

It took away even my AddItemsMenu thingie from inventory that I had not yet activated so I was locked out of that cheat option.  

[El_Duderino]

Hi and thanks for the extra feedback.

 

The quest marker oddities could be because Beggar's Row is right under Honeyside. The opening sequence of the mod should be fairly straight-forward; just speak to whoever you're being guided to through dialogue: the adventurer -> a guard in town -> the woman in the tight dress in Beggar's Row

 

That's odd that the quest sometimes doesn't initialize. Are you playing with Unbound Reborn? If so, inspect your savefile with ReSaver if there are any suspended stacks.  Not sure if that could this mod to fail, but I've had issues with Unbound a few times before with some other DD mods that run a lot of scripts after the game start. My guess is that this might be caused by Unbound altering the game's startup sequence so much. Those suspended scripts showed up already in my first savegame of those "playthroughs" and never went away, which broke those stalled mods entirely and also some other mods that relied on them. Only "fix" was to scrap that savegame and start a new game, inspecting the save files carefully before starting with the story.