Someone explain "Skimpy Armors" to me.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

I have two arguments against your argument.

 

1")"So a fully armored knight would have a bad time fighting a 1vs1 with a naked dude who knows what he is doing". Not really. For example: The romans legions had heavy infantry as main fighting force. If we followed your logic about Heavy Armor, the romans would get beat every single time and they would never manage to advance north of Italy, home to the Gauls.

 

2) Please, don't bring game logic into play. We're talking about real logic which can be used in both, game logic can only be used in the game.,,,,,

 

 

You proved your own argument wrong: I was talking about a 1v1, not a legion vs a horde. And I wouldn't call the armor the romans used heavy armor. For example, the lower part of the body (i.e. the legs) were mostly unprotected. The armor the romans used was a middle-ground between protection and mobility. If your legs are only protected by your own skin I would not call that heavily armored, sorry. The strength of the romans were tactics, discipline and formations, not their armor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_infantry_tactics#Initial_preparations_and_movement_for_battle

 

The game logic only becomes a problem if the game in itself is not consistent. Like I said, in Skyrim are sick and wounded people, yet there exist easy cures for that problem. Skyrim breaks immersion left and right without any mods installed. It's okay though since there is a thing called suspension of disbelief. In Skyrim, healing potions provide more protection against all attacks than any kind of armor, if you are not killed in one hit, of course. So wearing a chainmail bikini might not be the most practical thing to wear into battle but healing potions and spells will heal any wound anyway.

 

(No, you can't use real logic in games)

[Monsto Brukes]

Y'all are SO butthurt over a simple question, jeez. Y'all need to chill out. He was just curious, and I admire a man not afraid to ask questions in order to learn, even questions like the ones in OP's post.

 

 

The question, sure, is simple. It was however posed in an opinionated and trolling way, chastising people about "it breaks lore" and "protection" and all that.

 

I mean a couple gays want to get married and they shouldn't because I think it's wrong . . . same logic.

[SandsOfTime404]

Plus I truly enjoy finding pieces of fairly lore observant work that show off just enough to be sexy without being completely trashy, these are very rare pieces of work of course and I enjoy the artists who put the time into them.

This exactly.  My personal tastes fall somewhere in the middle ground between fantasy and reality.

 

The beauty of a game world like Skyrim is that realism can be thrown to the wind in a lot of regards.  It is fantasy, after all.  A healthy balance between fact and fiction is what I consider ideal in a game.  Some agree, some disagree.  Skimpy armor, or lack thereof, can be explained like anything else someone likes about a game.  It's personal opinion.  Something suits your fancy and often that's explanation enough.  There's no universal law governing what is and isn't appropriate in a video game world, especially the Elder Scrolls games.

 

I view gaming as something to be done for enjoyment.  While I can appreciate lore-friendly aspects of a game, I can equally enjoy things that some might call lore-unfriendly.  That doesn't put either of us in the wrong.  We're all simply playing the game how we enjoy playing it.

[gsguns]

 

 

 

I have two arguments against your argument.

 

1")"So a fully armored knight would have a bad time fighting a 1vs1 with a naked dude who knows what he is doing". Not really. For example: The romans legions had heavy infantry as main fighting force. If we followed your logic about Heavy Armor, the romans would get beat every single time and they would never manage to advance north of Italy, home to the Gauls.

 

2) Please, don't bring game logic into play. We're talking about real logic which can be used in both, game logic can only be used in the game.,,,,,

 

 

You proved your own argument wrong: I was talking about a 1v1, not a legion vs a horde. And I wouldn't call the armor the romans used heavy armor. For example, the lower part of the body (i.e. the legs) were mostly unprotected. The armor the romans used was a middle-ground between protection and mobility. If your legs are only protected by your own skin I would not call that heavily armored, sorry. The strength of the romans were tactics, discipline and formations, not their armor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_infantry_tactics#Initial_preparations_and_movement_for_battle

 

The game logic only becomes a problem if the game in itself is not consistent. Like I said, in Skyrim are sick and wounded people, yet there exist easy cures for that problem. Skyrim breaks immersion left and right without any mods installed. It's okay though since there is a thing called suspension of disbelief. In Skyrim, healing potions provide more protection against all attacks than any kind of armor, if you are not killed in one hit, of course. So wearing a chainmail bikini might not be the most practical thing to wear into battle but healing potions and spells will heal any wound anyway.

 

(No, you can't use real logic in games)

 

 

Romans used the scutum, a shield that protected most part of your body, making it very unlikely to get hit in the legs. The roman soldier we're talking about here, is also equipped with a scutum. Making him classified as a heavy troop.

 

So, the naked-lightly armoured dude, you are speaking of, will have a hard time, beating the roman who is equipped with both armor and scutum.

[Lodakai]

The bottom line...

 

If you made an armor for skyrim entirely out of bacon.  People will use it.

It's not realistic.  It would provide little to no protection. 

People will use it for various reasons such as they like how it looks, or they find it hilarious, or they find it stupid, or they find it cool.

It has no effect on anybody's gameplay if they chose not to use it.

It has no effect on skyrim lore.

It has no effect on historical data.

People just want it because of how it looks.  

It is about artistic expression.  Be it comical, beautiful, educational, historical, erotical (yes I know that isn't a word =p )... it is just art.  Take it for what you will.

[Monsto Brukes]

The bottom line...

 

If you made an armor for skyrim entirely out of bacon.  People will use it.

It's not realistic.  It would provide little to no protection. 

People will use it for various reasons such as they like how it looks, or they find it hilarious, or they find it stupid, or they find it cool.

It has no effect on anybody's gameplay if they chose not to use it.

It has no effect on skyrim lore.

It has no effect on historical data.

People just want it because of how it looks.  

It is about artistic expression.  Be it comical, beautiful, educational, historical, erotical (yes I know that isn't a word =p )... it is just art.  Take it for what you will.

 

Clearly you don't get it.

 

People would use it because bacon that's why.

[Lodakai]

Make way Evil! I'm armed to the teeth and packing a bacon! 

Butt-kickin for bacon!

 

EDIT: Hrm.. methinks Godwin's Law needs to be updated to include bacon.  And I think i need coffee.

[GrimReaper]

 

 

Romans used the scutum, a shield that protected most part of your body, making it very unlikely to get hit in the legs. The roman soldier we're talking about here, is also equipped with a scutum. Making him classified as a heavy troop.

 

So, the naked-lightly armoured dude, you are speaking of, will have a hard time, beating the roman who is equipped with both armor and scutum.

 

 

Unlike armor, shields require manual use (i.e. blocking) to have any real use. And unlike armor, you can throw away your shield in an instant, for example if you needed more mobility or you had to retreat. Last but not least, shields only protect in one direction, meaning that an enemy that gets behind or flanks you is not hindered at all.

 

You see, the armor the romans used did not offer much protection if it were not for the shield. What do we learn from that? You can wear skimpy armor and not break immersion if you equip a large enough shield. Problem solved!

[Suludi]

"Why wear skimpy armour" is a ridiculous question, it only boils down to "meh, I want to be offended because I don't like sexy".

 

You know, I'm thinking about starting a thread titled "Someone explain to me why almost all of your (=the forum members) sex fantasies seem to include pain and torture for the woman". I find it highly disturbing that for most of you, fantasy sex isn't a thing of pleasure but of brute force done to a female. Rape has even become a synonyme for sex here. And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

[dboura]

"Why wear skimpy armour" is a ridiculous question, it only boils down to "meh, I want to be offended because I don't like sexy".

 

You know, I'm thinking about starting a thread titled "Someone explain to me why almost all of your (=the forum members) sex fantasies seem to include pain and torture for the woman". I find it highly disturbing that for most of you, fantasy sex isn't a thing of pleasure but of brute force done to a female. Rape has even become a synonyme for sex here. And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

In truth Rape is and has always been a fantasy aspect of many people regardless of gender or orientation. Doesn't mean they will do or wish to have it done either. Granted, it doesn't have anything to do with loving as its a control or being controlled thing (or both if you're someone that's into the switch aspect, turning it around and going from sub to dom or vice versa), but some people do wish to experience the fantasy of it in a safe environment. And its in no way something exclusive to LL ... if it was I guarantee 50 shades wouldn't of become a popular book or even be thought of being made into a movie LMAO.

[Pandaman]

Skimpy armor doesn't break immersion for me in Skyrim because the combat animation already does that.

 

Regular attacks look like they're in a confused state between trying to throw their weapon away or waving someone to run away; power attacks that have them exposing their necks and backs, bend in all sorts of ways that would actually reduce the strength of a blow, and frequently screw up footing; NPCs use bows at extremely (for bows) close range and you're forced to do the same because if you fire from too far away they'll slide ten feet to the side to avoid arrows they sometimes aren't even aware of; so on and so forth, it's bad enough that despite all the effort I put into sculpting the perfect face and installing skimpy armor mods, I never fight in the third person view. It wouldn't be so bad if the animations were at least cool, but they aren't even that, they're just downright stupid.

 

So for me the immersion was dead out of the box, skimpy armor mods can't kill what never lived.

[Bwog]

"Why wear skimpy armour" is a ridiculous question, it only boils down to "meh, I want to be offended because I don't like sexy".

 

You know, I'm thinking about starting a thread titled "Someone explain to me why almost all of your (=the forum members) sex fantasies seem to include pain and torture for the woman". I find it highly disturbing that for most of you, fantasy sex isn't a thing of pleasure but of brute force done to a female. Rape has even become a synonyme for sex here. And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I have been thinking about this too, but have not started such a thread because it seems quite hopeless. Recently, I tried to remove all mention of rape from a mod via the CK (that doesn't work though).

 

Actually I would like to rephrase the question to: why is there hardly any consent in the mods? Ashal's framework and the animations are quite neutral in this aspect  (except it has victim as an option and there is 1 rape animation, which can be disabled).

 

Anyway, I understand the fantasy of sm or rough sex (consent is possible), I understand that there could be rape (bad things happens in skyrim), but I am puzzled by so much rape and the near absence of sex as a happy, pleasurable occasion.

[winny257]

what would happen if you could not skyrim modding?
then there would not be such a big fun game that would keep the game alive. skyrim would be boring after a very short time and disappear in the drawer.

it's fine the way it is and for this reason I thank bethesda that they have approved modding.

so I also thank all the modders so much effort into their work have plugged and especially because they share their work with us, thank you!

 

german \ deutsch !

 

was wäre geschehen wenn man skyrim nicht modden könnte ?
dann gäbe es nicht so einen großen spielspaß die das spiel am leben halten würde . skyrim würde nach sehr kurzer zeit langweilig werden und in der schublade verschwinden .

es ist gut so wie es ist und aus diesem grund danke ich bethesda , daß sie modding zugelassen haben .

deshalb danke ich auch all den moddern die so viel mühe in ihre arbeit gesteckt haben und vorallem , weil sie ihre arbeit mit uns teilen , danke !

[bob11]

 

"Why wear skimpy armour" is a ridiculous question, it only boils down to "meh, I want to be offended because I don't like sexy".

 

You know, I'm thinking about starting a thread titled "Someone explain to me why almost all of your (=the forum members) sex fantasies seem to include pain and torture for the woman". I find it highly disturbing that for most of you, fantasy sex isn't a thing of pleasure but of brute force done to a female. Rape has even become a synonyme for sex here. And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I have been thinking about this too, but have not started such a thread because it seems quite hopeless. Recently, I tried to remove all mention of rape from a mod via the CK (that doesn't work though).

 

Actually I would like to rephrase the question to: why is there hardly any consent in the mods? Ashal's framework and the animations are quite neutral in this aspect  (except it has victim as an option and there is 1 rape animation, which can be disabled).

 

Anyway, I understand the fantasy of sm or rough sex (consent is possible), I understand that there could be rape (bad things happens in skyrim), but I am puzzled by so much rape and the near absence of sex as a happy, pleasurable occasion.

 

 

Eh, you kill people in this game and can take part in demonic sacrificial rituals.  I'm pretty sure nudity and rape should be the least of your worries, but I didn't see many people complaining about klling and murder.  It's a game, people want to be free to do in a game what cannot be done in reality.

 

Also, happy sex in a game is boring, you get that IRL anyway.  Same goes for armor.  Oh wait...

[Starbrow65]

And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I second that. I'd dearly love to see some of the talented animators here work on a couple of tender things - you know, like hugging, embracing, kissing, caressing ... I also imagine that having (more) animations like that might be quite a boon for modders who are working on or planning to work on story-based mods or relationship mods, too. It'd just give them more scope for the necessary scenes. And us users more things to play with, too.

 

Sorry for sidetracking the thread, though.

 

[bob11]

 

And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I second that. I'd dearly love to see some of the talented animators here work on a couple of tender things - you know, like hugging, embracing, kissing, caressing ... I also imagine that having (more) animations like that might be quite a boon for modders who are working on or planning to work on story-based mods or relationship mods, too. It'd just give them more scope for the necessary scenes. And us users more things to play with, too.

 

Sorry for sidetracking the thread, though.

 

 

 

You people clearly don't have the Foreplay option on.  I can recall at least 3-4 animations that involve hugs and kissing.  Also, story- and quest- based mods are a bitch to make, that's the main reason most people don't want to do it.

[Yami X]

I used to be a gamer like you then  I took a mod to the skyrim data folder........

[Suludi]

 

 

And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I second that. I'd dearly love to see some of the talented animators here work on a couple of tender things - you know, like hugging, embracing, kissing, caressing ... I also imagine that having (more) animations like that might be quite a boon for modders who are working on or planning to work on story-based mods or relationship mods, too. It'd just give them more scope for the necessary scenes. And us users more things to play with, too.

 

Sorry for sidetracking the thread, though.

 

 

 

You people clearly don't have the Foreplay option on.  I can recall at least 3-4 animations that involve hugs and kissing.  Also, story- and quest- based mods are a bitch to make, that's the main reason most people don't want to do it.

 

 

I'm not referring to the mods per se but to the sex screenshots / stories made from these mods and posted here. I know that it's probably a mixture of raging puberty hormones, personal fantasies and a lust for power but I'm quite disturbed by the amount of brutality against women in those fantasies. If we're all so liberated here, then why do so many members fantasize (is that a word?) about having to "punish" women for being sexy?

 

But Starbrow65 is right, this is a derail. Sorry.

 

[Bwog]

 

 

"Why wear skimpy armour" is a ridiculous question, it only boils down to "meh, I want to be offended because I don't like sexy".

 

You know, I'm thinking about starting a thread titled "Someone explain to me why almost all of your (=the forum members) sex fantasies seem to include pain and torture for the woman". I find it highly disturbing that for most of you, fantasy sex isn't a thing of pleasure but of brute force done to a female. Rape has even become a synonyme for sex here. And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I have been thinking about this too, but have not started such a thread because it seems quite hopeless. Recently, I tried to remove all mention of rape from a mod via the CK (that doesn't work though).

 

Actually I would like to rephrase the question to: why is there hardly any consent in the mods? Ashal's framework and the animations are quite neutral in this aspect  (except it has victim as an option and there is 1 rape animation, which can be disabled).

 

Anyway, I understand the fantasy of sm or rough sex (consent is possible), I understand that there could be rape (bad things happens in skyrim), but I am puzzled by so much rape and the near absence of sex as a happy, pleasurable occasion.

 

 

Eh, you kill people in this game and can take part in demonic sacrificial rituals.  I'm pretty sure nudity and rape should be the least of your worries, but I didn't see many people complaining about klling and murder.  It's a game, people want to be free to do in a game what cannot be done in reality.

 

Also, happy sex in a game is boring, you get that IRL anyway.  Same goes for armor.  Oh wait...

 

 

Killing in games is not about aggression, it is about skill. However, I agree that killing is bad and it is one of the bad things that happen in this game. I never finished the quest where you have to torture someone to get a reward (but that is just me, never mind). Nudity is also not the issue raised in the quotes you react on. People are free to do what they want in a game: I agree, but this also not the issue. My issue was: why so much rape and so little consent and you dodged that in my opinion.

 

[bob11]

 

 

 

"Why wear skimpy armour" is a ridiculous question, it only boils down to "meh, I want to be offended because I don't like sexy".

 

You know, I'm thinking about starting a thread titled "Someone explain to me why almost all of your (=the forum members) sex fantasies seem to include pain and torture for the woman". I find it highly disturbing that for most of you, fantasy sex isn't a thing of pleasure but of brute force done to a female. Rape has even become a synonyme for sex here. And most of the mods have nothing to do with a "Lovers" lab. THAT, for me, is much more questionable than "waaah, there's some NAKED SKIN".

 

I have been thinking about this too, but have not started such a thread because it seems quite hopeless. Recently, I tried to remove all mention of rape from a mod via the CK (that doesn't work though).

 

Actually I would like to rephrase the question to: why is there hardly any consent in the mods? Ashal's framework and the animations are quite neutral in this aspect  (except it has victim as an option and there is 1 rape animation, which can be disabled).

 

Anyway, I understand the fantasy of sm or rough sex (consent is possible), I understand that there could be rape (bad things happens in skyrim), but I am puzzled by so much rape and the near absence of sex as a happy, pleasurable occasion.

 

 

Eh, you kill people in this game and can take part in demonic sacrificial rituals.  I'm pretty sure nudity and rape should be the least of your worries, but I didn't see many people complaining about klling and murder.  It's a game, people want to be free to do in a game what cannot be done in reality.

 

Also, happy sex in a game is boring, you get that IRL anyway.  Same goes for armor.  Oh wait...

 

 

Killing in games is not about aggression, it is about skill. However, I agree that killing is bad and it is one of the bad things that happen in this game. I never finished the quest where you have to torture someone to get a reward (but that is just me, never mind). Nudity is also not the issue raised in the quotes you react on. People are free to do what they want in a game: I agree, but this also not the issue. My issue was: why so much rape and so little consent and you dodged that in my opinion.

 

 

 

I kinda answered that when replying on another post.  If all you want is consent, EVERY animation, even the rough ones, are neutral by themselves, I'm pretty sure there are a number of mods that already have that covered in some form (like Romance, SexChat, Lover's Comfort, even Consequences and the SexLabUtil1, etc).  Also, I can't recall but 2-3 (Submit, Defeat, maybe Debauchery) mods for Skyrim that have to do with rape in some form, and one of them is actually viable as a consensual mod alone, unless you have other statistics.  As far as kissing and hugging and whatever go, there are enough foreplay animations with that.  As far as story driven mods go, as I said above, they are a huge pain to create, that's why people don't want to create them.  The ones that do create story driven (in this case story driven sexual mods) opt for some violence and drama rather than the mundane family life issues or whatever, you can't really blame them, it's more interesting in this kind of game.  Damn, the marriage system itself in Skyrim is as basic and broken as it could be, but let's face it, this is a game about going on adventures and killing stuff, not living in a fishing village (yes, yes, so mods like Alternate Start or whatever exist).

 

The reason I invoked nudity is because there ARE, MANY, people who bitch about nudity and body mods as well, but decapitating and assassinating people, meh, who cares, it's a game.  I'm not a fan of hypocrisy.

 

Overall, people probably opt to do it because 1) it's more interesting and less tedious than developing a family life or romance story mod IN THIS kind of monster slaying fantasy game, 2) it CAN be done, unlike in most other games.

 

Also, killing in games is about skill, not aggression? O_o Eh... Ok, would be ok if the rape mod involved a skill, perks, mashing buttons for combo or something?  I mean, it'll be about skill then, too...

 

Wasn't this about lore-friendly skimpy armors anyway?

[SandsOfTime404]

I find it curious that a discussion about skimpy armor in a fantasy game world turned into a moral debate about rape.  There is such a thing as a rape fetish, and barring genuinely illegal or "immoral" acts it's often just a kinky form of roleplaying.  It's probably more common than those hoity-toity proper folk would like to admit.  Way I see it, if you're so vastly concerned with the morality of rape and so quick to cast judgment on it, rejoice in the fact that these fantasies you fear so much are being experienced in a fictional world, rather than having a negative impact on people in reality.

 

Seriously, what's with all the holier-than-thou nonsense?  If it bothers you, you're quite capable of ignoring it.  Nothing about these mods, the forums, or their users forces you to partake in anything you think is wrong or that you're uncomfortable with.

[Monsto Brukes]

I find it curious that a discussion about skimpy armor in a fantasy game world turned into a moral debate about rape.

[ . . . ]

 

 

I'm also seriously perplexed that the discussion about how much of a female body is revealed in the game has generated a more lively discussion than the thread I started about straight up fucking in the game.

 

And I feel inadequate because of it.

[Bwog]

"I kinda answered that when replying on another post."

 

Ok, I see what you mean. My point was that it confuses the issues.

 

"EVERY animation, even the rough ones, are neutral by themselves"

 

Now you are more or less quoting me, so I agree.

 

"I'm pretty sure there are a number of mods that already have that covered in some form (like Romance, SexChat, Lover's Comfort, even Consequences and the SexLabUtil1, etc)."

 

In some form, maybe.

 

"Also, killing in games is about skill, not aggression?"

 

Yes, it is about skill.

 

"O_o Eh... Ok, would be ok if the rape mod involved a skill, perks, mashing buttons for combo or something?  I mean, it'll be about skill then, too..."

 

Not for me. But let me quote myself "I understand that there could be rape (bad things happens in skyrim)"

 

"Wasn't this about lore-friendly skimpy armors anyway?"

 

You have a point there.

 

"Way I see it, if you're so vastly concerned with the morality of rape and so quick to cast judgment on it, rejoice in the fact that these fantasies you fear so much are being experienced in a fictional world, rather than having a negative impact on people in reality."

 

I tried to avoid the holier-than-thou nonsense in my reaction and still think I succeeded in that.

 

"If it bothers you, you're quite capable of ignoring it.  Nothing about these mods, the forums, or their users forces you to partake in anything you think is wrong or that you're uncomfortable with."

 

This is well known and does not add much to the discussion  in my opinion.

 

 

Perhaps I should have made it clear that I admire the animators work and e.g. Ashalś framework and other mods, I really do. But that is a disclaimer, saying something like: dont get me wrong but...

 

[Halstrom]

It's completely unimmersive to not have to wear and wash underwear too

[gsguns]

Question has already been answered.

 

 

End of Thread