Adventures with Balazar (Balazar's Bitch) - Beta

[Gristle]

2 hours ago, Oibren said:

With the Whiterun quest, there are times where you have to engage the quest twice, I am not 100% on what causes this, maybe just going through it too fast?

Thanks for the bug report. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by engage the quest twice, but when I go fast through the quest, I often outrun Balazar, and a lot of the dialogue with NPCs won't trigger unless Balazar is near (distance check as condition to dialogue). So, sometimes I have to exit dialogue and wait for him to catch up and then reenter dialogue.  I could remove the distance check for Balazar, but then you will have dialogue referring to him when he's not there, which wouldn't be good.

2 hours ago, Oibren said:

Like some people metioned there is times where you are marked as an enemy so odd situations with other mods so odd situations can happen, like Balazar seemingly switching sides, etc.

I believe the only times he goes into an "enemy" faction is in the shrine and in dungeons. So, it shouldn't interfere with normal gameplay. But other mods, I don't know. Then again, he is a daedra, so any evil thing he does is not exactly out of character.

2 hours ago, Oibren said:

In the final act, with the final boss, I wouldn't say its a bug but at times, it can disengage you and if you don't realize you are supposed to kill it, then you stand there for a while before you realize what you are supposed to do.

This is a tough one. I have a trigger box just inside the door that puts the boss into two enemy factions, and also commands the boss to start combat with the PC. The issue seems to be aggression level. If I set the boss to "very aggressive" it attacks too early (despite not yet being in an enemy faction) -- through the door before the PC even enters, which wrecks the scenario. And, if I set the boss just to "aggressive" then it can withdraw from combat if not attacked for a while. I'll take another look at this. Maybe I need to extend the boss's attack radius.

2 hours ago, Oibren said:

Hope that helps a bit, if you want me to maybe test more I am happy to try stuff out. Thanks again for your hard work!

Yes. Thanks. I should be posting a new version soon, if you don't mind checking it out.

[Gristle]

3 hours ago, Veldon said:

I haven't tested the mod due to some problems with my Skyrim installation ATM, but how about quest triggers? Balazar could appear after certain quests and demand something that is related to the quest. For example: He wants to analyse the Staff of Magnus and stays to have some fun with the PC (at the cost of the PC's well-being). Or you could use the statistics. If the player is overly engaged in sex with animals or daedric beings, Balazar could decide to return and taunt the PC at best. He might be up for something worse – after all he is a Daedra, however the quest ends. Then again: Have you read the stories by Devianna? They might give you ideas as well, since there are some quite interesting Daedra (Trezaath aka Trez, Vulvun aka Vul-Vul, Lady Eira aka the harlot and others).

I'll check out the stories you linked to. I hesitate to tie Balazar into vanilla quests because players play all kinds of different ways and they may have done these quests already or might never do them. Currently, I'm thinking the next part of the quest would be another adventure involving some other daedric faction, and that Balazar would just show up because he has some further use for the PC. 

[killer905]

13 hours ago, Gristle said:

Hey, if you have converted the facegen files for LE and want to send them to me, I could package them in an LE version of the mod.

Yeah. zip file below :3

Balazar's Bitch v0.90b facegeom for LE.zip

[shrtjsrtj]

Nice mod. I love the way you do dialogue, one of my biggest complaints with some of the Choices Matter style RPGs is I end up save scumming a lot just to see where dialogue can go, and also worrying about choices locking out content. Here I have no fear clicking any option and it's so much more relaxing and enjoyable.

 

Everything worked pretty solidly except the Karthwasten NPC as others noted.

 

Questions about the final quest:

Spoiler

Most of this mod was non combat so that was a little jarring, not in a bad way it's just things like the pagan helmets and the trapdoor at the end threw me. I picked up the pagan helmet thinking it would work as a disguise but that didn't work, and as for the trapdoor I thought you might be able to use it on the Seekers in the end to drop them out of the fight. Was I supposed to just go in and fuck the ash dudes and then kill everything, or did something in my game break?

 

The helmet was wishful thinking on my part, but the trapdoor IMO is a missed opportunity. We're trained to lead creatures around, like the troll to the cage and the skeevers to a different district. Dropping the final boss down a hole after fucking it would have been a pretty sweet ending.

 

[Gristle]

2 hours ago, shrtjsrtj said:

Questions about the final quest:

SPOILERS!!!

Spoiler

The pagan helmet by the bench was just meant to be a clue to spot so you knew you were heading the right direction. I did worry about the combat because it will be hard for a low level character, but Balazar can do most of the fighting. The mission was a "find and destroy the temple" mission and Dremora Lords are all about destruction so I did want it to end in slaughter of the temple and a boss fight. 

 

As for the grate door, I never thought of using it to trap the seeker. I thought it would be a good way to bring the seeker into the battle in a second phase and in a way that was pretty novel -- opening the grate and levitating up out of the pit.  If the pit was used to trap the seeker, then where would the seeker come from? It really couldn't come from the pit in that case, because if it can open the grate and levitate out once, it can do it again.  So, that was the issue I struggled with: how to introduce the seeker, and ideally in a dramatic way? The pit entrance seemed the best solution.

 

So, yes, aside from getting fucked by the ash spawn and the seeker, the final part of the mission was just to crush the temple. The seeker doesn't show up until everyone in the temple is dead.

 

[PippinTom]

10 hours ago, Gristle said:

Raising Balazar's arousal threshold in this mod would not address that. I think the issue is more that, unlike a normal situation, where you only occasionally encounter dogs

 

Well, to some extent you are/might be right.

But still, issue is that hard limit on common value is bad idea always, unless you design/play with DD alike mod, assuming you are into this kind of stuff, where submissiveness and torment is taken to higher level, which is user interface and or player's character control level - dangerously close to real world, and not really appreciated by everyone.

 

I still see no justification for stripping player of freedom to adjust mentioned variable in full offered by framework scope (0-100), for whatever reasons he wishes to do so. One I've already given to you - arousal visualization, if I have threshold set in CF to anything above 25 (and I do, for valid reasons, not important at this point) then I'll never be warned visually that "something is coming" or "better be prepared / scared" because "Balazar seems eager for action any moment now", simply because his trigger level is way below CF's one and CF will have no chance to give him a preemptive boner ?

[Herowynne]

1 hour ago, Gristle said:

a good way to bring the seeker into the battle in a second phase and in a way that was pretty novel -- opening the grate and levitating up out of the pit.

Yes, I did like that. It was novel and dramatic! ?

[PippinTom]

I haven't finished BB yet, so can't comment in general, but two additional issues not strictly related to quests I wish to report for consideration.

 

1) First day, after leaving Riften (on the foot) I've decided to "take a dog on a walk" on my way to Orc's Camp. But there emerged two problems with that idea when I tried to execute it. First - I've started running in my direction picking up "flowers" (usual automated stuff in skyrim reality) while not paying a lot attention to stupid dog, which supposed to follow me, because tha's what stupid dogs are best art, (in theory), so I have no idea when Balazar disappeared in the wilds and even when tracing my steps back I couldn't find him for quite a long while (it was our first walk so I didn't prepared myself by targeting him in the console in case he is lots, what helps me with any other vanilla follower often enough). While searching for him I've discovered that each and every wild animal I've passed by on my original course is now laying dead, and after finally Balazar appeared, there was no living creature in the whole cell left, except for guars and peasants. So I think that he didn't get lost, he just pursued his (unforgivable) need to hunt over his obligation to follow. Well, that's not cool, for me at least. He is either following me of he is not a follower at all, so I've reduced his confidence level from 4 to 1 and had no similar issues in the future. And my point is - couldn't similar adjustment be done on mod level? I mean - (any) follower's job is to follow the player lead unless this follower is leading the player (which is not the case here). And I think that follower should not attack anything unless he is attacked,  PC is attacked or attacks something first. Am I right?

 

2) In Whiterun, dragon scene - If Farengar would bother to drag his ass a bit further toward center of the Great Porch then following scene would start in more convenient spot. By default it starts where Farengar stands, which is rather narrow entry passage, while dragon is huge piece of meat that barely fits there, what sometimes results in player being dumped/dropped thru the floor due to initial animation pre-alignments, which have obvious problems with aligning actors properly in such limited space.

 

 

[xtro334]

Have tested the mod as far as I could for now.

For most of the time it worked fantastically well. ?

 

Only two points I had problem with:

1) First time leaving Riften to travel to Windhelm, Balazar got stuck just outside Riften (Had to move him in another direction a bit first to make him follow me to Windhelm).

2) In Balazars revenge, Dravynea just stands in the Inn when I am supposed to follow her, and she has no quest mark. Tried to hide and then I tried to hide outside the Inn, but she did not leave the inn. Will try to see if she leaves in if I wait, but that seem like a gamble if she has no quest mark.

 

Edit: Waited for 9 hrs, but she just stands next to fire and doesn't do anything. ?

Reloaded a save and her quest mark got activated, but she keeps on just standing next to fire.

Might be good with a little debug line for her or add map-symbol for where to go.

Edited November 3, 2023 by xtro334

[AthenaTheLover]

5 hours ago, killer905 said:

Yeah. zip file below :3

Balazar's Bitch v0.90b facegeom for LE.zip 2.01 MB · 1 download

Thanks for this pack!

[Gristle]

6 hours ago, PippinTom said:

 

Well, to some extent you are/might be right.

But still, issue is that hard limit on common value is bad idea always, unless you design/play with DD alike mod, assuming you are into this kind of stuff, where submissiveness and torment is taken to higher level, which is user interface and or player's character control level - dangerously close to real world, and not really appreciated by everyone.

 

I still see no justification for stripping player of freedom to adjust mentioned variable in full offered by framework scope (0-100), for whatever reasons he wishes to do so. One I've already given to you - arousal visualization, if I have threshold set in CF to anything above 25 (and I do, for valid reasons, not important at this point) then I'll never be warned visually that "something is coming" or "better be prepared / scared" because "Balazar seems eager for action any moment now", simply because his trigger level is way below CF's one and CF will have no chance to give him a preemptive boner ?

Well, any conversation with the phrase "preemptive boner" is an interesting one. The idea behind the hard limit on Balazar's arousal trigger (and also his event frequency) is so that the "curse" affecting the PC has more meaning. Balazar's attacks are meant to be a burden that the typical PC would want to get rid of by completing the priestess quest. If a player can essentially remove the burden by just adjusting sliders all the way to the right then it takes away part of the theme of the mod.

 

A compromise might be to relax the limit after the initial Clavicus Vile curse is overcome (i.e., after part 1 of the quest). Unfortunately, I don't know how to reconfigure MCMs on the fly. So, I take your point that players should have freedom to play the game the way they want to play. I probably won't update the MCM in the next version, but I will update it. 

[Gristle]

6 hours ago, PippinTom said:

1) First day, after leaving Riften (on the foot) I've decided to "take a dog on a walk" on my way to Orc's Camp. But there emerged two problems with that idea when I tried to execute it. First - I've started running in my direction picking up "flowers" (usual automated stuff in skyrim reality) while not paying a lot attention to stupid dog, which supposed to follow me, because tha's what stupid dogs are best art, (in theory), so I have no idea when Balazar disappeared in the wilds and even when tracing my steps back I couldn't find him for quite a long while (it was our first walk so I didn't prepared myself by targeting him in the console in case he is lots, what helps me with any other vanilla follower often enough). While searching for him I've discovered that each and every wild animal I've passed by on my original course is now laying dead, and after finally Balazar appeared, there was no living creature in the whole cell left, except for guars and peasants. So I think that he didn't get lost, he just pursued his (unforgivable) need to hunt over his obligation to follow. Well, that's not cool, for me at least. He is either following me of he is not a follower at all, so I've reduced his confidence level from 4 to 1 and had no similar issues in the future. And my point is - couldn't similar adjustment be done on mod level? I mean - (any) follower's job is to follow the player lead unless this follower is leading the player (which is not the case here). And I think that follower should not attack anything unless he is attacked,  PC is attacked or attacks something first. Am I right?

That's odd because his aggression level is set to Unaggressive (0), which should mean he never starts a combat. The confidence level should only control when he avoids or flees from combat started by an enemy. His confidence level is set to Brave (3), which means he does not avoid/flee from threats unless severely overmatched.  Those woods between Riften and the Orc camp are full of spiders and other stuff. Maybe one of them lit up red as an enemy attacker and your PC just kept going and Balazar didn't "avoid" the combat. I'll reduce his confidence down to Cautious (1) in the next version, but even then he won't avoid an enemy attacker unless the enemy is stronger. Setting confidence to 0 is not an option as then he will never join combat, and he should when the PC is attacked.

 

6 hours ago, PippinTom said:

2) In Whiterun, dragon scene - If Farengar would bother to drag his ass a bit further toward center of the Great Porch then following scene would start in more convenient spot. By default it starts where Farengar stands, which is rather narrow entry passage, while dragon is huge piece of meat that barely fits there, what sometimes results in player being dumped/dropped thru the floor due to initial animation pre-alignments, which have obvious problems with aligning actors properly in such limited space.

Farengar does say "you'd better run over there now," but I agree it's best to move Farengar further and this will be in the next version.

[Gristle]

5 hours ago, xtro334 said:

1) First time leaving Riften to travel to Windhelm, Balazar got stuck just outside Riften (Had to move him in another direction a bit first to make him follow me to Windhelm).

Thanks for the feedback. On this point, I don't know that I can do anything about it. Balazar's is using the vanilla "Follow" package, but it's not perfect, and he can get stuck. Also, because he's not using the vanilla follower framework, he doesn't teleport to you automatically when you change cells, which makes getting stuck worse. Perhaps I can do something about that. Maybe if I put him in the right follower faction, he will at least teleport to you on cell change when he is stuck.

 

Also, I'll probably add a "Summon Balazar" spell at some point, which should also be an alternative solution if he gets stuck and lost. But the PC wouldn't likely get this until part 2 of the quest is over.

5 hours ago, xtro334 said:

2) In Balazars revenge, Dravynea just stands in the Inn when I am supposed to follow her, and she has no quest mark. Tried to hide and then I tried to hide outside the Inn, but she did not leave the inn. Will try to see if she leaves in if I wait, but that seem like a gamble if she has no quest mark.

 

Edit: Waited for 9 hrs, but she just stands next to fire and doesn't do anything. ?

Reloaded a save and her quest mark got activated, but she keeps on just standing next to fire.

Might be good with a little debug line for her or add map-symbol for where to go.

This is a puzzle. I checked the code and it's all correct. The dialogue advances the stage and she has an AI package to start walking when the stage advances. On top of that I am using a command to force her to evaluate her new AI package immediately (without that, it could take up to 10 seconds). And the quest marker for the appropriate stage is set up to point to her. I'll try putting in a short delay before the evaluate package command. Perhaps that command is coming too fast, i.e., before she actually switches packages. I assume the other potential issues are not present here (her path is blocked, someone is standing in front of the doorway even if she's across the room, another mod has messed up the navmesh).

 

I could point the quest marker to where she's going, but that would take away the whole "follow her" mission. I'd rather keep trying to figure out how to kick her in the pants and start her moving. (By the way, she moves after a few seconds 100% of the time in all of my many playthroughs, making this hard for me to troubleshoot.) Also, there are some clues available, i.e., if you talk to her you can find out where she works.

[xtro334]

8 hours ago, Gristle said:

This is a puzzle. I checked the code and it's all correct. The dialogue advances the stage and she has an AI package to start walking when the stage advances. On top of that I am using a command to force her to evaluate her new AI package immediately (without that, it could take up to 10 seconds). And the quest marker for the appropriate stage is set up to point to her. I'll try putting in a short delay before the evaluate package command. Perhaps that command is coming too fast, i.e., before she actually switches packages. I assume the other potential issues are not present here (her path is blocked, someone is standing in front of the doorway even if she's across the room, another mod has messed up the navmesh).

 

I could point the quest marker to where she's going, but that would take away the whole "follow her" mission. I'd rather keep trying to figure out how to kick her in the pants and start her moving. (By the way, she moves after a few seconds 100% of the time in all of my many playthroughs, making this hard for me to troubleshoot.) Also, there are some clues available, i.e., if you talk to her you can find out where she works.

 

Think I should mention that I use JK's skyrim with Northen roads, if that changes something she needs to go anywhere.

 

Edit:

Remembered that Balazar wanted some attention after I entered into the conversation with her, so I left it and reentered it when Balazar was done.

I still got same option in conversation as first time, but maybe it had something to do with it. ?

Edited November 4, 2023 by xtro334

[Animosities.]

Any chance to add a option to jump some of the beast scenes? I mean, oh damn I can't stand skeevers, maybe you could add a optional solution of this rat problem, not having sex with them? If so, I'm grateful.

[darklord2012]

Great mod, had a lot of fun with it, and it was surprisingly stable. Couple comments/observations, I agree with the above post about skeevers, that would be one I'd sure like to skip, or at least take the sex out of. Another observations is in part two when he orders your clothing adjustment, for me this happened in Solitude and after that he never comments on it again, continued walking through Solitude then went to Whiterun and Balazar never complained once that I was openly defining his order. I personally like the ideas, of clothing control and restrictions and enf, would enjoy seeing more, maybe in part one. Also if you're looking for a few ideas, I agree that Submissive Lola has some fun gameplay and also eidod23 made a fun little mod about a dominant genetically altered dog for Fallout 4. 

 

In the end keep up the good work, through this I found your fame comments mod and really enjoyed that, especially the Markarth quest, would like to see more like that for sure. 

[Gristle]

7 hours ago, xtro334 said:

 

Think I should mention that I use JK's skyrim with Northen roads, if that changes something she needs to go anywhere.

Northern Roads may be the issue. Googling just now shows some people talking about navmesh issues with Northern Roads, and looking at Nexus the last two updates of Northern Roads have included navmesh fixes.  If she doesn't have a navmesh path to where she wants to go, she probably won't even start moving. Can you try disabling Northern Roads temporarily to see if that fixes the issue?

 

Also, make sure Balazar is not standing in front of the door. 

 

7 hours ago, xtro334 said:

 

Edit:

Remembered that Balazar wanted some attention after I entered into the conversation with her, so I left it and reentered it when Balazar was done.

I still got same option in conversation as first time, but maybe it had something to do with it. ?

If you got the same conversation, it's fine. The quest only advances (and gives her the move package) when she says her last line, so it's fine if the dialogue is interrupted and restarted before the last line. Once the quest advances, she will no longer have the same dialogue.

[DiabloJim]

Just finished with Danica. Fucking loving this mod, mate. Running it in conjunction with Beastess, and have One With Nature installed, and so far no issues or problems whatsoever.

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, DiabloJim said:

Just finished with Danica. Fucking loving this mod, mate. Running it in conjunction with Beastess, and have One With Nature installed, and so far no issues or problems whatsoever.

Great! Let me know if you run into any issues.

[Gristle]

9 hours ago, Animosities. said:

Any chance to add a option to jump some of the beast scenes? I mean, oh damn I can't stand skeevers, maybe you could add a optional solution of this rat problem, not having sex with them? If so, I'm grateful.

Replace them with chauruses or spiders perhaps? Just kidding! I wasn't planning to update the MCM in the next version, but in the following version I could add MCM switches to disable scenes with each of skeevers, spiders and chauruses (chauri?)  This would also enable me to actually add spiders and chauruses in future expansions while not offending some players.

 

Of course, then the question is: what do you have to do for the innkeeper and the dark elves to gain the information you seek? I'd really rather not create an entire new adventure branch. But just replacing the creatures is not easy. There's really no suitable creatures that can replace the skeevers that makes sense as something that is plaguing (literally) the Gray Quarter. You'd really have to drop the vermin and disease angle and go with a different favor for the Dunmer. Any ideas?

[Veldon]

How about organising special dunmer food and drinks for the innkeeper? Things that are regularly not available in Windhelm...

 

Or re-utilise the thane quest approach and create new personal quests for the people in the quarter. They must have – simple – needs that they cannot satisfy themselves. No new adventures, but simple fetch or mediation talk quests.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Veldon

[Gristle]

5 hours ago, darklord2012 said:

Great mod, had a lot of fun with it, and it was surprisingly stable. Couple comments/observations, I agree with the above post about skeevers, that would be one I'd sure like to skip, or at least take the sex out of. Another observations is in part two when he orders your clothing adjustment, for me this happened in Solitude and after that he never comments on it again, continued walking through Solitude then went to Whiterun and Balazar never complained once that I was openly defining his order. I personally like the ideas, of clothing control and restrictions and enf, would enjoy seeing more, maybe in part one. Also if you're looking for a few ideas, I agree that Submissive Lola has some fun gameplay and also eidod23 made a fun little mod about a dominant genetically altered dog for Fallout 4. 

 

In the end keep up the good work, through this I found your fame comments mod and really enjoyed that, especially the Markarth quest, would like to see more like that for sure. 

Thanks for the notes. I could provide an option in the MCM to disable skeever sex scenes, which would just remove the skeever sex from the skeever run. That's a good idea. It would be simple to implement, and the main structure of the task would still be there -- draw the skeevers into the city so that everyone sees them. The NPC comments on the skeevers just wouldn't trigger the skeever sex scenes, like some do now. I could do the same in the MCM for spiders and chauruses (for future updates to the mod). The MCM would just disable the sex scene, but the rest of the quest would play out as normal. This should work fine.  

 

Right now, the Balazar comments regarding clothing control are standard "Idle" comments with appropriate conditions. These generally work but can be a bit delayed and random. The plan is to have Balazar instead require the PC to wear a collar with a magic effect to enforce the clothing rule. This should trigger instantly. Of course, for this to work the PC would have to first remove any collars added by other mods. Not an issue for Public Whore, but could be a problem with other enforced collar mods, like Cursed Loot.

[Gristle]

4 minutes ago, Veldon said:

How about organising special dunmer food and drinks for the innkeeper? Things that are regularly not available in Windhelm...

 

Or re-utilise the thane quest approach and create new personal quests for the people in the quarter. They must have needs that they cannot satisfy themselves.

Actually, since I posted that I read darklord2012's idea to just disable the skeever sex. You would still have the "skeever run" and the purpose would still be the same - to impress upon the Nords the dangers of the skeever infestation to get them to clean up the Gray Quarter, just the skeevers wouldn't initiate sex -- depending upon an MCM setting to disable skeever sex scenes.

[killer905]

@Gristle

 

I don't know how much you think this idea will fit, but what's the harm in sharing it?

So my original idea was that the floor collapses and that's where Seeker attacks you etc. I don't recall in Skyrim where the floor collapses, but a possible other option e.g..
The door closes (locked) and the player has to find the lever, but at that point the floor disappears and the PC falls into the trap where the seeker attacks.

Edit:
Something similar to the above, but instead a sleep gas is released and you wake up in the cultists' cell. We have to find a way out or take them all out.

[Animosities.]

9 hours ago, Gristle said:

Of course, then the question is: what do you have to do for the innkeeper and the dark elves to gain the information you seek? I'd really rather not create an entire new adventure branch. But just replacing the creatures is not easy. There's really no suitable creatures that can replace the skeevers that makes sense as something that is plaguing (literally) the Gray Quarter. You'd really have to drop the vermin and disease angle and go with a different favor for the Dunmer. Any ideas?

Maybe just ignore the sex scenes, leading them run a round in the city is good enough?

As for a different favor...some charity performance perhaps? Persuade some of the nobles like Brunwulf Free-Winter to to hold something like an orgy or naked masquerade, then let the Nord nobles pay to join, watching PC and Balazar or something else to perform some scenes, or join in themselves or anything. Nobles usually have some unusual tastes right? It should'nt be too difficult to persuade them to pay, then donate these money to solve rats problem. I mean, if the Jarl won't do anything, people in Grey Quarter should find their own way to solve this problem, and PC could lend them a hand or what. Just a imagine.

After all, just jump through the rat sex scenes is really good enough for me.