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What Keeps Skyrim from being a GREAT Game


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I do not have Skyrim either as yet' date=' But I haven't seen anything in these 3 pages that strikes me as something new or unexpected. You still have the same people at Bethesda doing the same thing they've always done and have even said as much, "We'll let the modders do the real work" we just give them an engine and toolset" not those words exactly but to that affect. They rely on the modders and always have, Modders are a great way for any game company to cut costs, some cut costs a bit to much, (at the expense of the game) but they know the community (If it is a long standing community) will pick the ball up and run with it. The Elder Scrolls Community always has picked up the ball and run with it, The Community is whats going to give Skyrim it's Greatness. I know it shouldn't be that way, but it is and I look forward to playing it when I am able to get it.

[/quote']

 

And to be honest, I'm fine with that policy (regarding modders), it shortens development time so I can get the game sooner! XD

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Pure and simple: the only real thing blocking greatness is the release of a good and stable CS. All else can and will be fixed after that. :)

 

Couse some info or even help getting nifskope adapted to all the new nodes and such would be kinda nice too......

 

 

Just my 2 cents worth.....:)

 

If The Release Of A CS Is Required To Make This A Great Game Then

Im Glad I Havent Bought This ... Because Obviously Skyrim Is Not

As Good As I Anticipated It Was Going To Be ...

You Shouldnt Have To Mod A Game For It To Be A Great Game ..

 

 

 

Greatness is relative to each individual. Personally I think it IS a great game out of the box (pre-F'up steam patch). Of course a good stable CS will make it the bomb!! I made the original statement as a generalization for all those who were bothered by UI, bugs or other things that annoyed them.

 

While I really have enjoyed Saints 3 (just completed it) and Batman (about 3/4 done) I keep coming back to Skyrim (which I haven't even done half of the main quest line yet).

 

Hours playing saints: 30

Hours playing Batman: 13

Hours playing Skyrim: 69

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Ok, Skyrim greatness has been reduced now due to steam turning auto update back on (when I turned it off) and force patched my game. That wouldn't be a problem usually except they updated the user interface and broke the damn thing in my game!

 

Fortunately I can roll back as I have Win7 but this is just pathetic.

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Once again, I'm rather glad that I haven't connected to Steam until the minefield is well flagged. (No. I feel no schadenfreude).

 

I don't hate Steam, or its vocal enthusiasts, but am wary.

 

"Beware, be aware, be a very wary bear" (like those gottverdame.... cave bears that sneaky sneaky jus' ven you tink you are a safe nord)

 

It's a cloud system. Cloud systems want your info/data/stuff/predilictions in their domain.

 

Symbiosis isn't necessarily a bad thing, but parasiticism rarely is. Is Steam a tick-devouring bird, helping the old Beth buffalo along in return for a free lunch...or a tick. Doesn't take much blood, but can carry some very nasty travelling companions.

 

Seriously. Skyrim is a great game, even a milestone of sorts, and I am enormously glad that Bethesda think it's worth while sticking thousands of dollars in the grubby mitts of their staff to create it. For this I have paid my £29 (day one price, now £32.50 in that outlet).

 

It isn't perfect, gods no. Nothing is, no artist ever really wants to let their baby go. I'll bet they had to prise Michelangelo's last work out of his stiff fingers.

 

That's where we come in, if they'll let us.

 

PS I want to be able to accept surrender. Where I come from it is not nice to kill someone who is wholly at your mercy. (I believe that Americans have a different ethic ;)). I am uncomfortable about the number of people I have killed who were trying to surrender, especially when I find out that

 

a) they were gourmet chefs but never got the chance

B) they were only doing it to pay off tuition fees

c) I have to kill their pet fox/dog/mudcrab too

d) Seriously, this was one last job then they would pay off their bounty and walk into town with their heads held high...ooops over the parapet, I can get a clear shot now.

 

 

 

 

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The fucking AI. The Whiterun "war" was fucking pathetic, just 20 npc's running around either scripted or just attacking the closest enemy they could find.

 

And there should be more conversation options. Some of us don't want to sound like a retard!

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The fucking AI. The Whiterun "war" was fucking pathetic, just 20 npc's running around either scripted or just attacking the closest enemy they could find.

 

Yes. Pretend mass combat is a bit iffy. There is always a bit of suspension of belief with mass battles - the defence of Bruma wasn't even a skirmish. You have to remember that we are really still in the "keystone cops" silent movie stage of this technology and just dream about the future vistas of our equivalent of talkies and technicolor. It would be great to see the LOTR Massive CGI system used! See how well the old Ebony Bow does against a thousand of the buggers comin' at ya...... anyone up for an "Orc's Drift" mod?

 

And there should be more conversation options. Some of us don't want to sound like a retard!

 

There is no excuse for that, except I suspect that the devs haven't the widest experience of real life interactions. Plus they do seem to assume that the player is aged 12-15 with the moral acumen of a cockroach.

 

 

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Things I dislike:

The Companion AI. I really do think they could have done more with it. A 'don't stand here' control. A 'Get out of my way' control. A 'Let me choose your armor' control which is more than me going 'Here hold this' and Lydia going 'Woot new helm!'.

 

The UI... is weird. Counterintuitive and buggy. Much like Oblivion's scripting language. Hate is perhaps a strong word... sometimes it's like 'Hey, that's cool, I get that now' and other times it's like 'ARRRGH who built this and why does he hate us! Whatever I did I'm sorry!'

 

The bugs. I've worked in software QA. Some of these bugs should have gotten testers fired. Seriously, a scenario that involves the words 'door' and 'boot' should have been involved, possibly via 'big stick' or 'blacklist'. The arguments it has with mainstream graphics cards and drivers? Horses launched into the air? Key, beginning-of-the-game objects that disappear or fall through the floor? Scripted events that break because the NPC is distracted by spawned mobs on the other side of the river? Were there no actual test cases written for the Main Frickin' Storyline!?!?!!?

 

The companion again. She comments when I wander into a random dungeon ("Is this an old ruin?" Really? With all these ancient mouldy skeletal remains around? Ya think?) but climbing the 7000 steps, meeting the venerable Greybears and learning to run faster than the Flash gets only a single 'ugh' out of her when a Frost Troll leaps out and clobbers her.

 

In comparison, the rest of the NPCs won't shut up. I'm standing with wossname, the dark elf guard who takes you to fight the first dragon, while she's giving her rousing speech and that annoying little brat (who looks identical to all the other annoying little brats, and yes, I have 0 maternal instincts) keeps whining on about how hard it is to sell vegetables. Try a hungry wolf attack, pipsqueak, then tell me how hard your day is.

 

I could keep going. Mainly though, the thing that really bugs me is the sheer untouched potential. You have all the bits of an economy, shopkeepers, civilians, farms, mining, customers, households, food consumption, etc etc... and yet all the NPCs just walk in circles and the guards never change and invisible magic scripts handle all the movement of stuff.

I want to see farmers dig up the crops and supply it to the stalls and inn. I want to be able to make a steel sword 'fine' and then donate it to the guard at the gate. I want the gates to occasionally be attacked by trolls and my buffed-up guards do a lot better against them.

 

And so on. I'll stop ranting now. The game is awesome. It's just not awesome 'enough'. I'll still play it obsessively for the next three months then mod it to death.

 

Damn you Beth. Damn you to heck!

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I fear at times that I got so heavy into modding Oblivion that the bar was raised too high for the vanilla Skyrim to really wow me. The graphics are great and there is a handful of interesting quests but as a whole I feel that they didn't push themselves to give us unique experiences in the world. They built a nice platform for a good game here but it isn't until modders get a hold of the CK that I expect to start seeing some jaw dropping additions to the game that elevate it above Oblivion.

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uh...No DLC?

 

I know you're joking' date=' but it would be REALLY annoying if there was a DLC out already.

 

It would be like the guys who bought Dragon Age:Origins early and found there's a dude standing in the camp site with a big "!" over his head who basically said "[i']thanks for buying the game, but if you want to do all of it, you'll need to send us some more money. Bet you wish you'd waited for the GOTY edition now, huh?[/i]"

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1. The very small number of spells. It,s just 2 or 3 spells in each school and their weak/stronger/strongest edition.

 

2. The horrible UI. Seriously? I have to go check how long my oakflesh spell will last by going in the menu? My breath bar when I am diving? My potions?

 

3. The ridiculous constraints on what enchantment you can put on which piece of equipment. Why can't I enchan my boots with a fortify conjuration enchantment?

 

4. The health regeneration. Don't see a point in it.

 

5. The decreasing number of armor set pieces. And the decreasing number of weapons. Where are my spears, my flails, my staves, my crossbows?

 

6. The ridiculousness of enemies crying out "No more, I yield!" only to have them charge right back at you if you spare their lives. I'd accept surrenders if they at least ran away when I let them, but noooo, sparing surrendering enemies is a bad thing.

 

7. The abandonig of the mortar & pestle system for the alchemy tables.

 

All in all, I really enjoy the game and the blandness, well, I know what to expect from a Bethesda game. I love it cause I'm all for sandbox games, exploring, crafting, hoarding stuff, searching to see what lies after the next hill. And all my complaints could be ignored, except the god-damned UI, or lack thereof.

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I do not have Skyrim either as yet' date=' But I haven't seen anything in these 3 pages that strikes me as something new or unexpected. You still have the same people at Bethesda doing the same thing they've always done and have even said as much, "We'll let the modders do the real work" we just give them an engine and toolset" not those words exactly but to that affect. They rely on the modders and always have, Modders are a great way for any game company to cut costs, some cut costs a bit to much, (at the expense of the game) but they know the community (If it is a long standing community) will pick the ball up and run with it. The Elder Scrolls Community always has picked up the ball and run with it, The Community is whats going to give Skyrim it's Greatness. I know it shouldn't be that way, but it is and I look forward to playing it when I am able to get it.

[/quote']

 

This is why I usually wait for the GOTY, platinum or diamond editions of most Bethsoft games because that way I can download all the mods I could possibly want right from the get go. However the steam thing does worry me, it seems every developer these days wants to weigh down their single player games with unwanted multiplayer or social network datamining crap. So I hope that by the time I finally buy this game there will be a way (official or not) to remove the steam dependency, since I don't want my data mined (especially some of the data I download of this fine site), and furthermore in a single player game why should anyone else care if I'm the worst cheater in history?

But what worries me even more than Skyrim and steam is Mass Effect 3 and EA origins, if steam is bad enough already, EA origins sounds like something straight out of the ninth circle of hell.

 

 

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I will refrain from buying Skyrim for a while, due to Steam. I just don´t like the fact you have to register a game on steam and maybe make them have a good look into your HDD. I understand those issues about copy protection and I am ready to fork out some cash for a good game.

But: Remember the hacker attack on the steam accounts last month? Well, I do!

e.g. http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2011/11/10/steam-hacked-newell-watch-your-credit-card/

 

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5. The decreasing number of armor set pieces. And the decreasing number of weapons. Where are my spears' date=' my flails, my staves, my crossbows?

[/quote']

Stupid question here, but which TES game had all of those without mods? I sure as hell don't remember them being in Oblivion... (and Morrowind only had crossbows and spears/halberds from your "missing weapons list")

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I will refrain from buying Skyrim for a while' date=' due to Steam. I just don´t like the fact you have to register a game on steam and maybe make them have a good look into your HDD. I understand those issues about copy protection and I am ready to fork out some cash for a good game.

But: Remember the hacker attack on the steam accounts last month? Well, I do!

e.g. http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2011/11/10/steam-hacked-newell-watch-your-credit-card/

 

[/quote']

Yes, I remember how a few Steam FORUM accounts were "hacked"... and how no Steam game accounts were touched. I also remember the way some people spun that incident into something hysterical and false, using it as evidence that Steam couldn't be trusted with anything...

 

Sound familiar? :P

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Yes' date=' I remember how a few Steam FORUM accounts were "hacked"... and how no Steam game accounts were touched.[/quote']

This is just so grossly incorrect it needs immediate correction:-

 

Steam finally announced that Game account details, including bank account details were also stolen, albeit in encrypted form.

They did not release (or were unsure) if the encryption keys were also stolen, but did advise all Steam users monitor their bank accounts with care.

 

The Steam hack was a very serious information breach. Kindly do not dismiss it as the fatuous non-incident you seem determined to view at as and stop dismissing everyone who is concerned as 'paranoid'.

 

I work in IT. If that had happened on my watch, I'd expect to be facing dismissal, so I imagine the steam employees are more concerned than you are.

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Yes' date=' I remember how a few Steam FORUM accounts were "hacked"... and how no Steam game accounts were touched.[/quote']

This is just so grossly incorrect it needs immediate correction:-

 

Steam finally announced that Game account details, including bank account details were also stolen, albeit in encrypted form.

They did not release (or were unsure) if the encryption keys were also stolen, but did advise all Steam users monitor their bank accounts with care.

I stand by what I said, for one simple reason...

"We do not have evidence that encrypted credit card numbers or personally identifying information were taken by the intruders, or that the protection on credit card numbers or passwords was cracked. We are still investigating," Newell wrote. "We don't have evidence of credit card misuse at this time. Nonetheless you should watch your credit card activity and statements closely."

Note that it DOESN'T state that bank details were stolen... and since Gabe did mention that no game accounts were compromised, I'm not so sure just what was so "grossly inaccurate"...

 

So, I'll say it again... I also remember the way some people spun that incident into something hysterical and false.

The Steam hack was a very serious information breach. Kindly do not dismiss it as the fatuous non-incident you seem determined to view at as and stop dismissing everyone who is concerned as 'paranoid'.

It was nowhere near as serious as people like to make out... and when they link to an article that indicates how little damage was done, I'd hope that they'd notice that it's not much use as part of a "look how bad Steam is" post.

 

That's not dismissing people as paranoid... just pointing out that they are *still* spreading false info.

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(Sigh) That's an early PR statement, Tregarin.

"We do not have evidence that.." is not a denial. It's always employed by politicians and marketing people to mean "No one can prove that..".

 

Later, they admitted Bank account details were at risk:-

(from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/valve_admits_steam_hack/)

"Steam, the online platform of video game firm Valve Corporation, has admitted that customer personal details including encrypted credit card information might have been exposed by a hack attack last weekend."

 

"We learned that intruders obtained access to a Steam database in addition to the forums. This database contained information including user names, hashed and salted passwords, game purchases, email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information. We do not have evidence that encrypted credit card numbers or personally identifying information were taken by the intruders, or that the protection on credit card numbers or passwords was cracked. We are still investigating."

 

So Steam are trying to imply that they breached the database, but didn't take any data?

Not really credible! Ten gets you one the very first thing they did was dump a copy of that database, even if they didn't get the encryption keys. It's always worth seeing if you can bust the encryption later. It almost certainly has resale value in that murky black market for data anyway.

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(Sigh) That's an early PR statement' date=' Tregarin.

"We do not have evidence that.." is not a denial. It's always employed by politicians and marketing people to mean "No one can prove that..".

 

Later, they admitted Bank account details were at risk:-

(from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/11/valve_admits_steam_hack/)

[/quote']

It's the same statement! How can it be just an early PR statement AND be a later admittance that things were at risk? (I note you've dropped the whole "Oh, the bank details were stolen!" claim... noticed it was false, did you? :P )

 

I mean, you even quoted the very same bit I quoted, but claim it's somehow different to what I quoted??

 

 

Please... if you have anything other than that "early PR statement" to back up your claims, go ahead and post it. The fact that there are no reports of any of those details being used indicates that the "early PR statement" was accurate and any attempts to spin it into being something worse are just that... spin.

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Sorry, I thought the statement you meant was different. Your extract indeed implies it is a trivial breach. The full statement admits it was a serious one. The analysis shows it may be very serious.

 

We obviously read differently (grin).

 

"We learned that intruders obtained access to a Steam database in addition to the forums. This database contained information including user names, hashed and salted passwords, game purchases, email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information."

 

'Obtained access' = took

'including' = took more than this list

'email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information' = banking details.

'including user names, hashed and salted passwords, game purchases, email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information.' = everything

 

I don't see how admitting all that can be interpreted as no financial details.

What part of 'billing addresses and encrypted credit card information' do you not read as financial details that might allow thieves to steal from you? If they got the encryption keys, then that info is being sold right now!!!!

 

You've harshly accused people of being alarmist. I'd like to gently suggest you are being complacent.

 

Finally, the form of words 'We have no evidence' is not a denial! This at best means 'we don't know' and at worst means 'no one can currently prove'.

 

I've lost count of the number of companies and politicians who use that wording to imply a denial of something that is later shown to be true.

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The main thing that I am finding myself disappointed with, is the fact that Skyrim has no real differences between playing as a man/woman or a nord/orc/dunmer/whatever.

 

I mean sure you get a few different dialogues here and there, maybe some Stormcloaks are rude to you or some bandits yell something different at you, but what's the real difference?

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