What Keeps Skyrim from being a GREAT Game

[Cezul]

Just don't like how they've narrowed down all the options. There are no spears, or crossbows. No throwing weapons either.

 

Personally i could care less if the mentioned weapons had their own skill or not, it's just that they SHOULD be there, even if they're a sort of gimmick like how hand to hand is now. I just find it strange how a gate guard or a patrolling soldier out in the field wouldn't carry some kind of pole arm.

 

Also, no horseback combat. Really a bummer for me when i spent 1,000 septims on a horse only to find you still can't fight from horseback. remember seeing that Oblivion promo image of that knight on horseback, sword and shield drawn staring at the horizon? Thanks for the false hope, Todd.

 

 

[Tregarin]

Sorry' date=' I thought the statement you meant was different. Your extract indeed implies it is a trivial breach. The full statement admits it was a serious one. The analysis shows it may be very serious.[/quote']

Very much depending on what you bring to it... if you bring to it that what is said is very different to what is meant, then yes. If you refrain from adding spin to it, then no.

We obviously read differently (grin).

 

'Obtained access' = took

And since you have ZERO evidence for this, despite being asked for something that shows the hackers took that kind of stuff, I reject your claim that this is what was meant.

If they got the encryption keys, then that info is being sold right now!!!!

IF they got the encryption keys, a fuck load of people would have found a shit ton of money being taken from their bank accounts almost straight away... the longer they wait after getting the details, the harder it is to get anything out of it.

 

IF they did take those details, and IF they got the encryption keys... then we would be seeing a lot of complaints about it. Yet there is nothing.

 

The only rational explanation is that they took nothing of the sort... or they are incredibly incompetent hackers which contradicts what they were able to do.

 

So, ignore what has happened and the evidence we have... and you can spread the "But they might be selling it right now!!! You just don't know!!!" claim.

You've harshly accused people of being alarmist. I'd like to gently suggest you are being complacent.

After looking at the evidence we do have, I'd have to ask if rejecting claims that contradict it is really being complacent... or just someone not giving in to wild claims that contradict the evidence. (and making claims that contradict the evidence along with "OMG!! They could be selling your info right now!!!!" comments is pretty much alarmist...)

Finally, the form of words 'We have no evidence' is not a denial! This at best means 'we don't know' and at worst means 'no one can currently prove'.

 

I've lost count of the number of companies and politicians who use that wording to imply a denial of something that is later shown to be true.

And this time what has happened (or failed to happen) afterwards is just showing that it's unlikely anything got taken. (psst... wanna bet they keep logs to show when that database is accessed and what is accessed in it? If there is no evidence in the logs, it's pretty likely it wasn't accessed... if they kept the logs separate from the database, which they would have to or it wouldn't work)

 

 

If you cannot bring any evidence in, other than "oh hey, this must mean something different that contradicts what is seen (not) happening" with a side of "these hackers (who obviously were good enough to get into the database) are completely incompetent when it comes to doing anything with the info"... then this discussion is over. End of.

[Symon]

(Sigh) Banks don't like to publicize money vanishing from bank accounts. We won't know for ages if anything has come of this breach, we never do, but being complacent isn't the best policy in my book.

 

We don't need any further evidence to be concerned because the evidence out so far is cause for concern. What more do you want? People pauperized because of steam? Will that make you admit Steam dropped the ball big time?

 

I notice you are living in the UK and must remember the most famous recent use of 'There is no evidence that..' here? The BSE scandal? People died because of complacency on that one. Yes, the people who urged preventative caution then were called 'deluded and paranoid'.

 

Anyway, for some reason, you are determined to act as if this is not a cause for concern. So be it.

 

You may have the last word if you wish. (grin). I do hope for the sake of people who's details were stolen that you are right.

 

 

[DocClox]

Anyway' date=' for some reason, you are determined to act as if this is not a cause for concern. So be it.

[/quote']

Meh, he's made up his mind. There's no point in introducing conflicting evidence - he'll only get upset.

 

"Never try and teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it upsets the pig".

[WitchGirl]

He does realize that not all hackers are malicious right? I mean granted it's not the majority, but some people out there just break into things to show that they can. I guess they do it cause they like to confuse the fuck out of and embarrass the people they're hacking.

 

I seem to recall something like that happening to the pentagon; not recently, but historically. Dude hacks them, puts like a smiley face in their security code, leaves, does nothing at all, ______ later he's tracked down and arrested and there's this whole legal debocal about whether he actually did anything wrong.

 

But it would seem to me that regardless, that's one of the problems with Steam not one of the problems with Skyrim, which is what this thread is for. Or at least that was my assumption, I guess I could've been wrong and this could be the, 'rant about how unfair and stupid it is that steam does stuff and we still buy games from them' thread.

[labrat]

@Witchgirl. You have a point, this debate, whatever the merits on either side, is getting a liiiitle bothersome. But may I gently point you at the first post in the thread.

 

Steaming: ignore if you find it's getting a bit too much:

 

 

@Tregarin. Have you any idea how databases are maintained and secured at all? I know that Symon does.

The question is rhetorical, I don't want an answer.

 

@Tregarin and Symon. We don't know what data was copied/stolen or what the perpetrator intends to do with it, or when. Symon is quite correct to assume that as much information as possible has been filched - if only to facilitate further mischief. It is quite possible that the information sought was not for financial advantage, 'though a thriving data black market exists. It is unlikely that thee or me will ever know the truth of the matter.

 

Tregarin is optimistic, Symon is cautious. That is better than accusing each other of complacency or paranoia.

 

My own view is that:

Anyone involved in Hardcore Pornography who willingly puts genuine personal information into the public domain without due caution is a candidate for the Darwin Awards.

 

Anyone who proselytizes a commercial outfit that encourages or insists on stupid behaviour for their personal gain is suspect.

 

If all your activities/proclivities are well on the right side of the social pale then Steam offers a good and worthwhile service.

But if so, wtf are you doing on this website?

 

And that fence is shifting. Please do not trouble to deny it, just check the real world every now and again - if you can tear yourself away from Skyrim.

 

 

Symon, BSE Story:

 

 

Months before the crisis came into general public awareness I was listening to Farming Today at some godforsaken pre-dawn hour.

 

Farmer George: "....absolutely nothing wrong with British Beef, complete scare-mongering..."

 

Agricultural Minister: "Quite right, well said George. Fine British beef. Tradition. Contributes billions to the global economy."

 

Veterinary Officer: "Come off it George, I know for a fact you haven't eaten any of your own beef for months. Not since we got those lab reports."

 

Agricultural Minister: "What!?....What!?....What!?" [sound of spilling coffee]

 

---------

 

And that interview, not repeated later in the day, was the last I heard of BSE for about six months...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've now played well over 100 hours, and the list of niggles has grown considerably, however, I still think that it is the core of a really great game. Unlike the OP I haven't let Steam spoil it for me.

 

My biggest bugbear is still the "moral code" that the devs assume players have - kill prisoners or they'll stab you in the back, sacrifice the naive, don't trust someone who tries to surrender....that sort of thing.

 

 

[Tregarin]

Anyway' date=' for some reason, you are determined to act as if this is not a cause for concern. So be it.

[/quote']

Meh, he's made up his mind. There's no point in introducing conflicting evidence - he'll only get upset.

Good excuse to evade having to provide evidence... I haven't heard that since the last time I saw a debate with a Fundie.

 

 

On topic... they still haven't fixed the fucking Dragons not attacking and not giving souls! An ever-increasing niggle that is affecting one of the core mechanics of the game. (sucks, doesn't it?)

[Presto]

Beat the MQ today and finished up the Imperial civil war path and I was left with a feeling of "ok what did that do?" The game is great and there are so many positives to it but what really gets me is that it never feels like you are accomplishing something. Your actions don't seem to change the game world, all they do is change the way that maybe one NPC reacts towards you and the random things guards will say as you run past them. For all your accomplishments and your good/bad deeds I never feel like what I'm doing matters beyond getting me some gold or a new sword with a ho-hum enchantment on it.

 

The civil war quest line should have been filled with random skirmishes against your factions controlled forts/cities. Once you reach the top of the guilds you should have some options to control what they do and even invest money in it to improve on certain factors. Now that you've finished the MQ there should be random times that bandits and the like will run when they see you or at least fall back to take you on with some reinforcements.

 

Beyond that I'd like to see something that expands the game world a little bit so that even when you have beat the toughest dragon and smithed the best armor, there is still something for you to try to obtain and develop. Obviously this is where modding comes into play. The mods that made dynamic trading and economic systems made visiting shops more interesting to me. The mod from Fallout that let you create and develop your own town kept me exploring and trying to find what I could to add to my little city. Even the little mods that added random unmarked loot (collectibles/cards/unique joke items/etc) to the game always kept me diving into caves well past the "I'm a god" mark you always find yourself reaching.

 

 

[gregathit]

One thing that they did do with the civil war quest is they rounded up the jarl's for riften and dawnstar and have them as quasi "guests" in winterhold (if the imperials win). The complaints they give you when you talk to them are kinda funny.

 

I have also seen skirmishes occasionally between the former guards of all three stormcloak holds against the imperial soldiers (usually just a one on one or one on two deal). Also if you notice the imperial troops now occupy all three former stormcloak holds and the minor settlements as well.

 

Now having said this, I agree with Presto that it isn't much, but it is a framework that modders can build on to "fix" things so that you DO make a difference in the game.

 

Also another failing is Beth did not remove the essential tag from the leader of each stormcloak camp once the civil war is won. So if your like me and go to "tidy up" things by crushing the stormcloak holdouts.......you can't

[Presto]

One thing that they did do with the civil war quest is they rounded up the jarl's for riften and dawnstar and have them as quasi "guests" in winterhold (if the imperials win). The complaints they give you when you talk to them are kinda funny.

 

I have also seen skirmishes occasionally between the former guards of all three stormcloak holds against the imperial soldiers (usually just a one on one or one on two deal). Also if you notice the imperial troops now occupy all three former stormcloak holds and the minor settlements as well.

 

Now having said this' date=' I agree with Presto that it isn't much, but it is a framework that modders can build on to "fix" things so that you DO make a difference in the game.

 

Also another failing is Beth did not remove the essential tag from the leader of each stormcloak camp once the civil war is won. So if your like me and go to "tidy up" things by crushing the stormcloak holdouts.......you can't

[/quote']

 

I just finished so I haven't been able to see all the results of my "unification" of the land but I was left feeling very let down when I completed that quest. Literally the general and Rikke just walk away after the battle as if they were going for a Sunday stroll while the city was still burning around them. I had to do a double take and check my inventory to see if there was a reward or if I was missing something... apparently I wasn't.

 

In the end the whole civil war questline felt like a waste of time meant to give role playing nords and imperials some content for their next fanfic. I enjoyed the epic battles but the end result left me feeling like nothing in the game world had changed aside from a different guard spawning in different locations and a Jarl with a different name. There was so much potential here and this quest line could have rivaled the MQ if it actually had a little more depth to it (and the MQ could have still been better but thats another subject).

[gregathit]

Typical Beth, great at getting the base and suck ass at the details. Ah well, with the CS in Jan we can start fixing this. I have plans for the stormclock jarls and their lackies........really there is a whole dungeon in Winterhold with NO ONE in it. Ah the screams....I can hear them now!!!

 

MUUUHHH HHAAAA HHHAAA HHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

[Kuroshu]

@Steam Hacking Topic:

 

 

Steam got hacked, and left it's ass open for the hackers to rape. That much is true. They could have taken anything that they had access to. This SHOULD raise concern even if a little. Atleast enough to admit that Steam isn't oh so safe.

 

Next is what they do after. Did they take measurements to ensure this won't happen again? How good is this? are they even doing something at all? This should be your defining factor in distrusting them or not. If they don't do anything then it's safe to assume there might be more hacking in the future.

 

No one wants money stolen from them so they should be careful with their accounts in these situations. Unless you have a totally separate bank account, etc. just for games...

 

 

 

On-Topic:

-Lack of any Horseback Combat. Hell I'd be happy if we can use the horse to attack... like making the horse kick/stomp mobs attacking us while horseback.

-Companions. Don't get me wrong, I love them, but not as much as I would like to since they're pretty bland. I know some people dislike talkative companions but I think they can make said companion interesting if done correctly. They also seem more or less like modded companions, simply given to you with little to no backstory,developement, or effort. I liked the vanilla companions in NV since they atleast have a quest involved with them AFTER you get them. One of my favorite mod companion is willow for a similar reason, there's a quest to get her and a few more while with her.

-Dragon Riding. Yes I said it. I want to use the dragon(Odawing) as a mount. and rain fire on cities, giants, mammoths, bandits, other dragons, etc.

-Finishers. I love them but I wish I can control when I want to do them....

-The Rebellion. I don't like Ulfric and I don't like the Imperials... Where can I go? Is there a Neutral path other than not joining? There should be a Third(forth if you include the not doing the quest-line)

-Horses and Companions. Not separate but together. Why can't my companion ride a damned horse? Or maybe Ride with me on the same horse? It's just sad(and funny at times) to see Lydia/whoever, trying to catch up with me and my horse, "Breaking Wind."

-Marriage. For now it's bland... wait till the CK comes out then It'll be more enticing... for now it's too plain...

-Houses decor. It's okay right now but I'd be better if you could pick/change the overall feel/theme of the house interior. Something like Fallout 3's house(I think it was FO3...)

[DocClox]

Good excuse to evade having to provide evidence... I haven't heard that since the last time I saw a debate with a Fundie.

 

You seem to have me confused with someone who gives a toss.

 

I don't use Steam, so it doesn't affect me. If I did, I'd be inclined to take the hack seriously but everyone has to make his own risk assessment on these things. Casting aspersions on someone just because they assess those risks differently from yourself is somewhat juvenile ... but that's not my problem either in this case.

 

Mainly, I just wanted to make an observation on the practical limits entailed in the education of pigs.

 

[WitchGirl]

 

On topic... they still haven't fixed the fucking Dragons not attacking and not giving souls! An ever-increasing niggle that is affecting one of the core mechanics of the game. (sucks' date=' doesn't it?)

[/quote']

 

I'm not sure this is always a bug. The only main times I've had this happen to me is when I kill a dragon that belongs to a dragon nest that I've cleared before. For whatever reason sometimes the dragons at the nests seem to respawn, (possibly because sometimes I neglect to find the path to the shoutrock and never actually obtain the shout from them) and because dragons have such a HUGE wandering radius it can be easy to mistake a nest-dragon for a random-dragon, but, and I think this is the source of the bug at least whenever I've encountered it, the programmers were smart (or stupid) enough to write in some bit of code about not being able to farm dragon souls by approaching a dragon nest and just not 'clearing' it. So though the dragon respawns, the one-nest-one-soul ratio remains intact.

 

As for them not attacking, sometimes I think it's just really hard to get their attention. Might have something to do with elevation, the dragon is too high up in the sky to see you, or maybe stealthy player characters that make the game think they don't wanna fight a dragon right now. It'd be equally annoying if every dragon always attacked.

[gregathit]

Whether you learn the word of power or not the dragons at these locations DO re-spawn and they DO NOT give you a new dragon soul. Whether it is a bug (as in they shouldn't re-spawn or should give you a soul) is unknown at this time (at least I have not heard Beth say anything one way or another).

 

As to getting their attention - yea they seem more focused on bears than anything else in the world including you! I am sure this can be adjusted with the CS to have them prioritize you as a target as your level increases and perhaps even to start fleeing from you when you hit God-like power after defeating the main quest.

[Presto]

 

On topic... they still haven't fixed the fucking Dragons not attacking and not giving souls! An ever-increasing niggle that is affecting one of the core mechanics of the game. (sucks' date=' doesn't it?)

[/quote']

 

I'm not sure this is always a bug. The only main times I've had this happen to me is when I kill a dragon that belongs to a dragon nest that I've cleared before. For whatever reason sometimes the dragons at the nests seem to respawn, (possibly because sometimes I neglect to find the path to the shoutrock and never actually obtain the shout from them) and because dragons have such a HUGE wandering radius it can be easy to mistake a nest-dragon for a random-dragon, but, and I think this is the source of the bug at least whenever I've encountered it, the programmers were smart (or stupid) enough to write in some bit of code about not being able to farm dragon souls by approaching a dragon nest and just not 'clearing' it. So though the dragon respawns, the one-nest-one-soul ratio remains intact.

 

As for them not attacking, sometimes I think it's just really hard to get their attention. Might have something to do with elevation, the dragon is too high up in the sky to see you, or maybe stealthy player characters that make the game think they don't wanna fight a dragon right now. It'd be equally annoying if every dragon always attacked.

 

I'm not entirely sure about the one nest, one soul thing. I've cleared many dragon nests and regularly do a cycle of a handful of them all in a row, going back and killing the dragons there to farm souls and get the loot in the chests. I run into the problem of not getting a soul every once and awhile but it tends to be more from random encounters.

[gregathit]

Presto are you playing on PC or console. I'm on PC and I have yet to get a second soul from a dragon nest

 

The chests however I have noticed DO restock..........very strange......

[Presto]

Presto are you playing on PC or console. I'm on PC and I have yet to get a second soul from a dragon nest

 

The chests however I have noticed DO restock..........very strange......

 

Playing on console with the first patch (ignoring the second one until they figure out how to fix the problems it created). The dragons seems to respawn at the nests every few days, probably on the same schedule that shop inventories restock.

 

Whenever I'm in the mood for some new gear or want to stock up on some soul gems I just fast travel to a few in a row to kill the dragons and take the loot in the chests. Seems broken in some ways but believable in others. If there are all these dragons roaming about they must rest somewhere every now and again. If you kill the previous dragon that ruled the nest it makes sense that a new one would take it and call it home. I just imagine the restocking chests as the spoils that are left over after the dragon has killed a few adventures that have wandered onto the nest before you. Although it would make more sense to find it inside them when you loot them but I won't complain too hard.

[DocClox]

Presto are you playing on PC or console. I'm on PC and I have yet to get a second soul from a dragon nest

 

I'm on the PC and the dragon from Bonestrewn Crest does seem to respawn. At least I keep getting dragon encounters around that area, so I assume it's the same dragon. There are a few other areas with regular dragon respawns as well.

 

About the only thing that doesn't seem to respawn is the word on the word wall, but that's probably fair enough.

[Tregarin]

 

On topic... they still haven't fixed the fucking Dragons not attacking and not giving souls! An ever-increasing niggle that is affecting one of the core mechanics of the game. (sucks' date=' doesn't it?)

[/quote']

 

I'm not sure this is always a bug. The only main times I've had this happen to me is when I kill a dragon that belongs to a dragon nest that I've cleared before. For whatever reason sometimes the dragons at the nests seem to respawn, (possibly because sometimes I neglect to find the path to the shoutrock and never actually obtain the shout from them) and because dragons have such a HUGE wandering radius it can be easy to mistake a nest-dragon for a random-dragon, but, and I think this is the source of the bug at least whenever I've encountered it, the programmers were smart (or stupid) enough to write in some bit of code about not being able to farm dragon souls by approaching a dragon nest and just not 'clearing' it. So though the dragon respawns, the one-nest-one-soul ratio remains intact.

 

As for them not attacking, sometimes I think it's just really hard to get their attention. Might have something to do with elevation, the dragon is too high up in the sky to see you, or maybe stealthy player characters that make the game think they don't wanna fight a dragon right now. It'd be equally annoying if every dragon always attacked.

Heh... the last patch was supposed to fix those very problems... shame it did sweet f all in that regard and broke oh so many other things.

 

The not attacking ones I can kill on the wing... which just makes them spaz out in the sky and fly around until I get bored and leave. (run away really, since the game thinks it's attacking me and you can't fast-travel if you're being attacked... even when the bugger is miles away!)

 

Dragons not giving souls are usually the ones that randomly attack towns/appear on fast-travel... though I had the Whiterun scripted dragon decide not to give a soul yesterday. Seriously fucked up the main quest right there.

 

Of course, we need to add the whole "dragon flying backwards while the game insists you're in combat" to what Bethesda has achieved... always a delightful thing to encounter. (run away and the dragon starts following you... either Bethesda fucked it up badly, or they are trolling us!

[Stryker]

What keeps Skyrim from being great is that the CS hasn't been released yet.

[Dee383]

Right After Finally Buying And Playing This Game ...

 

Who Ever Invented And Created This Inventory And Magic Casting System

Wants His Head Decapitating I Hate It That Has Ruined My Gameing Experience And

No Hotkey Function Makes It Even Worse ...

[Symon]

It's a common complaint. Bear in mind that the game was created for consoles, NOT the PC. PC inventory handling and hotkey remapping was obviously an afterthought.

 

What you should do is write to Bethesda, tell them you love the game except for the interface which mars the gameplay badly. Urge them to bring out a patch for a proper PC style interface.

 

If they get enough of those, they might rethink things. (Yeah, not much hope but worth a try).

[RustyXXL]

No Hotkey Function Makes It Even Worse ...

 

I agree with the interface being poorly made for the PC-Version, but you can assaign hotkeys to spells/weapons and shields at least, by favouring them, opening the Favourites-Menu, hovering the thing you want a hotkey for and then pressing 1, 2, 3 etc...didn't test though wich keys you can use, but my guess would be 1-0...

[Chbaakal]

Well, the hotkeys (1-0) do work, with a trick to get a dual blade combo set up right for quick changeovers. But I've learned to adapt and overcome (HOORah!) to the interface, myself. Of course when the CK arrives, I'm pretty sure that within a month or two, someone will have devised a trustworthy interface solution to fix any issues.

 

That said, I've found these other issues to list:

 

1. The lackluster Main Quest/non-gamechanging quest endings leaving you feeling "Why did I bother."

 

2. A cut scene for riding the dragon after it was freed in Whiterun, one that you could skip after so many viewings. I can imagine that soaring over and through mountain ranges, skimming the tops of trees as you head to your destination would be a nice touch. And, of course, summoning a dragon to ride around would be fun as well.

 

3. Fishing! We have cooking, hunting, and skinning, but I only found one fishing pole in the far North, and you can't use it! I just want to cast into these rivers with a rod and reel, use a spear, or even use a small net to catch some fish.

 

4. Enchanted Arrows. I miss those!

 

5. As Archmage, I should be able to order these mages around! Build or upgrade the Guild Hall and the surrounding village. Make it into a place worthy of Practitioners of the Arcane!

Winterhold is a dump! And it needs more mages and acolytes wandering around, even a few to train with and sell to!

 

And my last;

6. The Bard's College. Why? I can't play an instrument, or sing. Or do anything except fetch lost or stolen crap. Let's get a band together and drink, dance, and fondle serving maids!!! To the tune of this music:

 

 

(Ignore past 3:36, dead space....)

 

Or other Renaissance/Neo-Folk tunes that fit the Norse/Celtic crossover effect of Skyrim.

 

Okay, I'll stop now...the last was a little much to expect from Beth...

 

ChBaakal