Devourment Refactor

[Dongs REO Speedwagon]

22 hours ago, markdf said:

The limited macromancy I added was only ever intended to give modest bonuses and penalties for vore -- to make a vore at least somewhat possible for spellcasters.

 

If you have ideas for how to extend that system, I'm open to suggestions.

I choose to interpret this as an invitation. Text-dump incoming.
 

Spoiler

 

The core of this idea is to cater to the crowd that prefers macro/micro vore - or as it is alternatively known, size difference. Noms that feel feasible without the predator being some sort of stretchy magic-rubber anatomy-nightmare - it should be possible to imagine the victim fitting through the pred's mouth (or equivalent orifice) and inside its body without invoking cartoon physics too hard.

Now, when Macromancy was first mentioned in the thread, my thoughts immediately went to shrinking and/or giant(ess) stuff - a humanoid predator growing, or prey shrinking by a considerable margin. As in, the prey would be bite-sized, or at least doll-sized, to the predator - it's easy enough to imagine one fitting into the other. And why stop with humanoid predators? Picture in your mind, sitting in front of the fire in Breezehome, and Lucia's running around being a pain with that funny wooden sword you left sitting out on the weapon rack; one thing leads to another, and now you're small enough to fit into a skooma bottle, and you're trying to climb up the stairs to safety because Vix decided that you'd make a good snack right about now, and Lydia just WON'T. WAKE. UP. and put an end to this farce.

 

If that sounds like your idea of a fun time, I have ideas of how to make it work. I'm no modder, or even a programmer of any description, but I've lurked enough to know a couple common terms. I'm keeping Refactor's core philosophy in mind when I type all of this out - modularity and ease of upkeep. Nothing more complicated than it needs to be, nothing that can't be turned on or off with a flick of an MCM toggle or ini tweak.

 

The first step would be to implement a (toggleable) restriction on Devourment - Predators cannot eat something that is the same size or bigger than they are. Size is a subjective thing, and probably not something that the engine can detect on its own - Devourment seems to be able to tell the size of things when it comes to how many of them can fit in a stomach, but barring just using that as the criteria, I would recommend using a Size Tier tag of some sort. I imagine there'd be about four or five tiers of sizes, give or take- incidentally, enough to fit on a Faction Ranking scale from 0-4 if that could be used to implement the size-tagging, I really don't know enough about how that works. Of course, creatures/predators of a higher size tier would be compelled to attack/eat things smaller than themselves.

Tier 1: Skeeverweight - Foxes, Skeevers, Mudcrabs, assorted "small" animals that would usually just be prey to bigger creatures.
Tier 2: Medium - Humanoids, Wolves/Dogs, Chaurus, standard Frostbite Spiders, etc. Anything roughly person-sized, really. Yes, it's a bit of a stretch to imagine this size bracket devouring the previous one - literally. However, it's also where you're going to see the most vanilla-implemented hunting behavior between creatures. I'm also aware that, technically, this would prevent wolves from devouring the deer/elk that they take down - maybe an exception would be in order?
Tier 3: Large - Giant Frostbite Spiders, Bears, Sabre Cats, Trolls, Gargoyles, Werewolves/Werebears, etc. All of those creatures that are just in-between human- and titan-sized, but are visibly bigger than humanoids. This is what I like to call the Hunter Gamma Sweet Spot - it's silly to imagine some of these creatures going through the trouble of swallowing a person alive, but it's not TOO much of a stretch to imagine it happening. Especially if you've read Little Red Riding Hood, and don't tell me that playing that story out wasn't one of the first things you did with a creature-enabled version of Devourment.

Tier 4: Titanic - Dragons, mammoths?... not much else naturally, but we'll get to that. Suffice to say, these are the creatures to which humans ARE bite-sized, and probably among the first predators we all thought of testing out the mod with.

 

So, you might have noticed that I've left out a tier on the scale of 0-4... that is because Tier 0 is exclusively reserved for people or creatures that have been afflicted with the micro-version of Macromancy. A 30% size decrease will not be enough here - something closer to setscale 0.3 at the very least would be needed to line this up. Shrunken down to the bottom of the food chain, a person brought down to this tier will be fair game for just about anything... or anyone. Of course, let's not forget about the macro side of Macromancy - the growth alternative would achieve the opposite effect, turning the recipient into a towering giant capable of snatching anyone up off the street and gulping them down without too much trouble. This, of course, would set our giant(ess) to Tier 4 accordingly. I've thought about how these effects would change non-human recipients as well - I imagine that just moving a creature to either extreme of the chart would suffice, resulting in a Tier 4 macro-mudcrab on one end, or a shrunken-to-setscale 0.06 Tier 0 mini-dragon on the other.

 

One thing that would be nice to implement in this theoretical expansion would be more ways of achieving the macro/micro effects, especially in-gameplay. Spreading a weapon/armor enchantment or spell to NPCs via SPID, craftable poisons/potions, anything to screw around with the size of yourself or others while out adventuring. This would need to be applied and balanced sparingly, of course, though I can't imagine it making too much difference if it doesn't affect actual combat stats - it would effectively just be an extra mechanical step added to what Devourment already does to combat in-game.

 

This is just a rough outline, and I don't expect anything to come of it. Take it as what it is - the sleep-deprived ramblings of a madman.

[vincentoroscoe]

I have now gotten the scrotum to expand when I have cockvore selected, but the struggle animation still only happens in the belly regardless. I have the node/body area correctly selected in the MCM, of course. Any idea why that is?

 

 

I'm also not sure how to have the locus set up properly for the breasts/pecs and ass, given both have two nodes/sliders.

[Joebob0330]

Question/Suggestion: Is it possible to make it so that breast vore can work in conjunction with MME to make milk?

 

[PurpleLove]

I wonder, how exactly does Prefill option work? When I set the chance to maximum I can hear NPC's stomachs making noises, but there is no belly. When I change belly size to max in BodySlide it then appears, but there's no morph animations.. no fun this way!

[markdf]

6 hours ago, Catastrophic said:

Hi!

I like this mod mostly for the locational vore. I'm not into people being eaten/swallowed all that much, but big into absorbed into a bodypart.

Anyways, I had a lot of fun getting the mod going but there were a few things that don't seem to be added yet that would greatly improve the experience for weirdos like me that don't like being swallowed whole. I know I am not the target audience, but I hope you can appreciate the suggestions regardless:

 

1. The locational vore seems to only specifically do the selected location/type of vore. I'd love to see an option to have it be random, ideally for a list where you can disable certain locations since I could only get a few of them working, and I imagine others have similar troubles.
2. Every vore location seems to control a single slider, but with CBBE many morphs look much better with multiple sliders being adjusted. I figured this could be something the advanced editing solves, but I wasn't able to figure out how to use the advanced editor since no examples seem to be included and the existing files are just empty JSON brackets. One example with CBBE is the BigButt slider looks fine from most angles expect it makes a weird 'shelf' where it tries to connect to the thighs if they are not also inflated.
3. Option to not shrink the part back down when absorbed, or to make it much much slower so it takes a day or so. Long enough that you could possibly have a dom (or pred as some people call them these days) with you and you can try to keep their parts big from constant eating. This comes along with an option to not have the belly fill up when the victim is 'dead'.
4. Friendly text toggle to not mention death. I know this won't help for the dialog mod since it's separate, but I would love a toggle to replace "You're dead" with something like "You were absorbed" or whatever. I get that the victim won't be doing much of anything, but I like the idea that they still exist in there somehow.
5. Ingredients and Food probably shouldn't 'come back up'. It's chaos when the player gets eaten due to the billions of items, but consumables being consumed at the same time makes sense and would offset this to a degree. For similar reasons it would be nice if coins could be put in a bag or something.

 

Devourment Refactor used to support any combination of sliders and nodes you wanted. It was a disaster, it required ridiculous calculations and tracking, and above all it was slooooow.

 

BodyMorphs_template.json isn't empty. 

 

I'll increase the limit on the Digestion Time control in the MCM to a full 24 hours (although keep in mind that could be as much as 20 days of game time).

 

Still looking for a good Papyrus method of making ingredients and food get eaten when they are swallowed.

[markdf]

3 hours ago, vincentoroscoe said:

I have now gotten the scrotum to expand when I have cockvore selected, but the struggle animation still only happens in the belly regardless. I have the node/body area correctly selected in the MCM, of course. Any idea why that is?

 

 

I'm also not sure how to have the locus set up properly for the breasts/pecs and ass, given both have two nodes/sliders.

 

Unless someone makes an SOS addon with struggle sliders, there wont be any scrotum stuggling.

 

For breasts and ass, you're really better off with sliders rather than nodes. Now that there ARE some male bodies with sliders, why not check one out?

[markdf]

1 hour ago, PurpleLove said:

I wonder, how exactly does Prefill option work? When I set the chance to maximum I can hear NPC's stomachs making noises, but there is no belly. When I change belly size to max in BodySlide it then appears, but there's no morph animations.. no fun this way!

 

Do those NPCs have a belly when they swallow someone?

[PurpleLove]

2 minutes ago, markdf said:

 

Do those NPCs have a belly when they swallow someone?

They do, and it works with morph as intended.

[markdf]

24 minutes ago, PurpleLove said:

They do, and it works with morph as intended.

 

Ah, looks like I forgot to add prefilled weight to the locational scaling calculation. If you turn off locational morphs, do the bellies show up? If so, then this will be fixed in the next version.

[PurpleLove]

1 hour ago, markdf said:

 

Ah, looks like I forgot to add prefilled weight to the locational scaling calculation. If you turn off locational morphs, do the bellies show up? If so, then this will be fixed in the next version.

Sadly no belly shows up, not even with locational morphs disabled. I don't think I did anything wrong, but you'll have better luck troubleshooting it for sure. 

Thank you for looking into the issue, and thank you for doing such tremendous work on the mod!

[InfinityKage]

Every once in a while the game will ask you about a weight scale. What is the scale there? 100 = 1 person? 50 = Dog? 200 = 2 people? I set a giant spider to 200 thinking it was about twice the size of a person but the resulting belly was like 10 times the size.

[Catastrophic]

8 hours ago, markdf said:

I'll increase the limit on the Digestion Time control in the MCM to a full 24 hours (although keep in mind that could be as much as 20 days of game time).

 

For locational morphs it seems to 'transfer' them to the belly during digestion, so this wouldn't really change anything. The location seems to shrink the moment the target dies.

 

[markdf]

1 hour ago, InfinityKage said:

Every once in a while the game will ask you about a weight scale. What is the scale there? 100 = 1 person? 50 = Dog? 200 = 2 people? I set a giant spider to 200 thinking it was about twice the size of a person but the resulting belly was like 10 times the size.

 

Yes, 100 is the default for a humanoid.

 

BodyMorphs vary in how they scale; some are relatively linear, some are more exponential. It's hard to come up with one system to manage any slider -- short of essentially reimplementing SLIF from scratch.

 

I'll experiment with the Burden exponent a bit. 0.4 might be slightly more manageable than 0.5.

[InfinityKage]

Sometime when I'm swallowed/digested it will bring about this cat and mouse game of the npc that swallowed me running to (i assume) the location where I sit invisible. I will then automatically teleport away and they will run to my new location. It will do this the entire time until "Become your killer" fully activates. Any idea what's going on there?

[markdf]

24 minutes ago, InfinityKage said:

Sometime when I'm swallowed/digested it will bring about this cat and mouse game of the npc that swallowed me running to (i assume) the location where I sit invisible. I will then automatically teleport away and they will run to my new location. It will do this the entire time until "Become your killer" fully activates. Any idea what's going on there?

 

Can you try switching the invisibility style in the MCM to "Spell" and see if that makes a difference?

[InfinityKage]

13 minutes ago, markdf said:

 

Can you try switching the invisibility style in the MCM to "Spell" and see if that makes a difference?

 

You know, I was think'n the same thing. I'll let ya know.

[markdf]

20 minutes ago, InfinityKage said:

 

You know, I was think'n the same thing. I'll let ya know.

 

I'm probably going to move to a hybrid system that uses the the Invisibility spell most of the time, but switches to alpha during dialogue.

[GalloViking]

Is it possible to do futa CV or is it male only right now? I'm using the SOS futanari addon.

[Catastrophic]

40 minutes ago, GalloViking said:

Is it possible to do futa CV or is it male only right now? I'm using the SOS futanari addon.

 

 It is. I don't know what the slider name is for the scrotum, but if you do 'Genitals' as the slider name it makes their entire penis larger and it works on futa and males.

 

However, it does not seem to be able to tell if the pred is a futa or not, and will try to do CV even when there is no C to V with.

[GalloViking]

50 minutes ago, Catastrophic said:

 

 It is. I don't know what the slider name is for the scrotum, but if you do 'Genitals' as the slider name it makes their entire penis larger and it works on futa and males.

 

However, it does not seem to be able to tell if the pred is a futa or not, and will try to do CV even when there is no C to V with.

 

Sounds good, I'll try it out later! I've read NPCs don't use locational vore anyway so it should be a problem. On the topic of locational damage, trying to breast vore gives a strange effect while wearing armor. It's like it tries to enlarge them but fails partially, and only two tiny pieces show coming out of the torso. Works perfectly fine while naked, though.

[Seraph7289]

I finally got a console error when bellies refuse to scale. Can't figure out how to dump the console so I'll just write the relevant message here.

Lua Error: (skyrim SE directory)/data/SKSE/plugins/JCData/lua/dvt/init.lua:199: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'smoothness' (A nil value)
Lua trace: stack traceback:
      [C]: in function '__mul'
      (skyrim SE directory)/data/SKSE/plugins/JCData/lua/dvt/init.lua:199; in function 'BumpSliders'
      [string "local args = ...local object = args:dvt.Bu..."]:1: in function 'func'
      (skyrim SE directory)/data/SKSE/plugins/JCData/InternalLuaScripts/init.lua:203; in function <(Directory again)/JCData/InternalLuaScripts/init.lua:200>
Lua string: dvt.BumpSliders(args, 0.000...)

I'm probably not reading this right but as far as I can tell, the code tries to do math with a field that doesn't have any value in it. (Inspecting the file in question shows the smoothness field doesn't seem to have any initialization in the code. Unless it's imported from a different file and the game just forgets that happens?) Which leaves the slider variable at zero because it receives no value to work with. Interestingly this issue shows up after I reboot my computer and load a save.

Edit: Noticed a difference on line 199 between the version I had installed and the version from today. Still doesn't work, but now it says that it's trying to index morphsettings which is a nil value on line 203. So as far as I can tell the game just forgets what values these fields have after a while. (Or maybe it just fails to import the data? I don't know where the declarations for these variables and functions are stored.)

 

[trupanacea]

I've been having an issue where trying to defecate results in a CTD. I am unsure what is causing this, and haven't found a way to prevent it.

[markdf]

3 hours ago, trupanacea said:

I've been having an issue where trying to defecate results in a CTD. I am unsure what is causing this, and haven't found a way to prevent it.

 

I can't help without a NetscriptFramework crash log.

[markdf]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:28 AM, Dongs REO Speedwagon said:

I choose to interpret this as an invitation. Text-dump incoming.
 

  Hide contents

 

The core of this idea is to cater to the crowd that prefers macro/micro vore - or as it is alternatively known, size difference. Noms that feel feasible without the predator being some sort of stretchy magic-rubber anatomy-nightmare - it should be possible to imagine the victim fitting through the pred's mouth (or equivalent orifice) and inside its body without invoking cartoon physics too hard.

Now, when Macromancy was first mentioned in the thread, my thoughts immediately went to shrinking and/or giant(ess) stuff - a humanoid predator growing, or prey shrinking by a considerable margin. As in, the prey would be bite-sized, or at least doll-sized, to the predator - it's easy enough to imagine one fitting into the other. And why stop with humanoid predators? Picture in your mind, sitting in front of the fire in Breezehome, and Lucia's running around being a pain with that funny wooden sword you left sitting out on the weapon rack; one thing leads to another, and now you're small enough to fit into a skooma bottle, and you're trying to climb up the stairs to safety because Vix decided that you'd make a good snack right about now, and Lydia just WON'T. WAKE. UP. and put an end to this farce.

 

If that sounds like your idea of a fun time, I have ideas of how to make it work. I'm no modder, or even a programmer of any description, but I've lurked enough to know a couple common terms. I'm keeping Refactor's core philosophy in mind when I type all of this out - modularity and ease of upkeep. Nothing more complicated than it needs to be, nothing that can't be turned on or off with a flick of an MCM toggle or ini tweak.

 

The first step would be to implement a (toggleable) restriction on Devourment - Predators cannot eat something that is the same size or bigger than they are. Size is a subjective thing, and probably not something that the engine can detect on its own - Devourment seems to be able to tell the size of things when it comes to how many of them can fit in a stomach, but barring just using that as the criteria, I would recommend using a Size Tier tag of some sort. I imagine there'd be about four or five tiers of sizes, give or take- incidentally, enough to fit on a Faction Ranking scale from 0-4 if that could be used to implement the size-tagging, I really don't know enough about how that works. Of course, creatures/predators of a higher size tier would be compelled to attack/eat things smaller than themselves.

Tier 1: Skeeverweight - Foxes, Skeevers, Mudcrabs, assorted "small" animals that would usually just be prey to bigger creatures.
Tier 2: Medium - Humanoids, Wolves/Dogs, Chaurus, standard Frostbite Spiders, etc. Anything roughly person-sized, really. Yes, it's a bit of a stretch to imagine this size bracket devouring the previous one - literally. However, it's also where you're going to see the most vanilla-implemented hunting behavior between creatures. I'm also aware that, technically, this would prevent wolves from devouring the deer/elk that they take down - maybe an exception would be in order?
Tier 3: Large - Giant Frostbite Spiders, Bears, Sabre Cats, Trolls, Gargoyles, Werewolves/Werebears, etc. All of those creatures that are just in-between human- and titan-sized, but are visibly bigger than humanoids. This is what I like to call the Hunter Gamma Sweet Spot - it's silly to imagine some of these creatures going through the trouble of swallowing a person alive, but it's not TOO much of a stretch to imagine it happening. Especially if you've read Little Red Riding Hood, and don't tell me that playing that story out wasn't one of the first things you did with a creature-enabled version of Devourment.

Tier 4: Titanic - Dragons, mammoths?... not much else naturally, but we'll get to that. Suffice to say, these are the creatures to which humans ARE bite-sized, and probably among the first predators we all thought of testing out the mod with.

 

So, you might have noticed that I've left out a tier on the scale of 0-4... that is because Tier 0 is exclusively reserved for people or creatures that have been afflicted with the micro-version of Macromancy. A 30% size decrease will not be enough here - something closer to setscale 0.3 at the very least would be needed to line this up. Shrunken down to the bottom of the food chain, a person brought down to this tier will be fair game for just about anything... or anyone. Of course, let's not forget about the macro side of Macromancy - the growth alternative would achieve the opposite effect, turning the recipient into a towering giant capable of snatching anyone up off the street and gulping them down without too much trouble. This, of course, would set our giant(ess) to Tier 4 accordingly. I've thought about how these effects would change non-human recipients as well - I imagine that just moving a creature to either extreme of the chart would suffice, resulting in a Tier 4 macro-mudcrab on one end, or a shrunken-to-setscale 0.06 Tier 0 mini-dragon on the other.

 

One thing that would be nice to implement in this theoretical expansion would be more ways of achieving the macro/micro effects, especially in-gameplay. Spreading a weapon/armor enchantment or spell to NPCs via SPID, craftable poisons/potions, anything to screw around with the size of yourself or others while out adventuring. This would need to be applied and balanced sparingly, of course, though I can't imagine it making too much difference if it doesn't affect actual combat stats - it would effectively just be an extra mechanical step added to what Devourment already does to combat in-game.

 

This is just a rough outline, and I don't expect anything to come of it. Take it as what it is - the sleep-deprived ramblings of a madman.

 

Well, as a bare-bones start, I'll add a toggle for "micro mode".

 

In micro mode:

* stomach capacity is reduce to 0.7 + (pred skill)/15. The default is 1.0 + (pred skill)/12, where 1 means same-sized prey.

* no pred can swallow a prey unless they are at least 25% larger. 25% may not sound like much, but scaling isn't linear so it's probably a bigger difference than you expect. DOES NOT APPLY TO DIALOGUE (or any other form of scripted vore).

 

It will be in the next update so you can fool around with it a bit and see what you think.

 

I'm not particularly inclined to add a bunch of macromantic potions and whatnot -- only have a limited number of formIDs available and I'm running out -- but the effects are all there in the ESP, so it would be pretty easy for someone to make an addon containing any number of interesting macromancy spells and items.

[PurpleLove]

Thank you for working on a prefilled issue, definitely a sight for a sore eye! Although I don't think I've seen any of them with struggle morphs. Is there a chance it could work out? Again, thank you so much for your hard work!