Jump to content

Are We Gluttons For Punishment?


Recommended Posts

Dictionary

 

noun: a glutton for punishment

 

a person who is always eager to undertake hard or unpleasant tasks.

 

Addendum: a person who knowingly or subconsciously seeks out hard or unpleasant tasks despite being aware of easier ways to accomplish the same thing.

 

Just brain storming on why people tend to make the same mistakes over and over again in life- both collectively and individually. They're not stupid, as some suggest. I say they're broken- broken psychologically somehow. But why? And can they be fixed?

Link to comment
1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Dictionary

 

noun: a glutton for punishment

 

a person who is always eager to undertake hard or unpleasant tasks.

 

Addendum: a person who knowingly or subconsciously seeks out hard or unpleasant tasks despite being aware of easier ways to accomplish the same thing.

I always think of a "glutton for punishment" with a variation of the definition of insanity. That is, a glutton for punishment is someone who does the same thing over and over and hopes for a different outcome (as opposed to expects a different outcome).

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Psalam said:

I always think of a "glutton for punishment" with a variation of the definition of insanity. That is, a glutton for punishment is someone who does the same thing over and over and hopes for a different outcome (as opposed to expects a different outcome).

What made me think of this were relationships, but I also feel like it applies to many aspects of our lives. We choose the harder path, knowing it's the harder path- and that baffles me about human behavior. Maybe the human psyche is wired such that we are not just driven to achieve, but also to overcome, persevere when the task is hard. And if the task isn't hard, we make it so. I certainly feel guilty of making things harder for myself than they needed to be and I kick myself for my bungling and stubbornness afterwards many, many times.

 

It can't be the challenge, could it? Or do I subconsciously take the harder course because I'm suspicious of success- in essence, afraid of my own success and comfortable with my self-doubts? I've read somewhere that people are sometimes afraid of their own success- whatever that means. Do we purposely program ourselves to fail? Sabotage our own efforts? Maybe sabotage other's efforts for the same reason?

 

Like have you ever heard of those people that win the lottery and then you hear that they squandered all the money of stupid things? They didn't know how to handle being rich- they just couldn't wrap their head around never having to worry about money again, so the blew it all. Obviously they played the lottery to get rich and maybe even had solid plans for how to use the money, but were lost when they actually did have it.

 

With relationships I often hear people lament that they don't feel "good enough" for the person they're with and they find a way to fuck things up. Sometimes they don't even say anything and just do it. You thinks this is why so many people cheat? Or never make commitments in the first place? Because they feel better punishing themselves, feeding their insecurities?

 

Can an entire society feel insecure and comfortable underachieving and subconsciously want to sabotage other's efforts to succeed? I think so.

 

 

Link to comment

I was wondering about that myself as I finally finished Death Stranding. Not so much the walking, climbing and delivering - that part was cool IMO. It was the final 3-4 chapters which were so cut scene heavy, you know Hideo Kojima - should be making movies not video games.

 

I mean seriously, it took almost 4 hours to get through the last parts and I hardly 'played'. At least I went and got something to eat, had a few smokes, checked LoversLab. Still.... Maybe I am a Glutton for punishment. I finally got Metal Gear Solid 5 on sale a few months back for PC (another Kojima title) and it took 20 minutes before I was turned loose to actually play. once I finished that mission I was given MORE cutscenes before I was turned loose at some offshore 'base'. I was tasked with going around and meeting everyone - and I KNEW each one would have a long cutscene. I pretty much uninstalled the game for another day......

 

I definitely have a love/hate relationship with his games now.

Link to comment

The human condition is a very difficult thing to understand in its entirety.

 

Humanity is both lazy and diligent. We are not unlike other things in nature in the grand scheme. We do tend toward the path of least resistance in most cases, but eventually we look for a challenge. This desire for difficulty is not from a sense of self-loathing or desire for pain, but ultimately an eventual sense of boredom. The human condition thirsts for conflict (not necessarily violent conflict), and conflict drives progress. Conflict is rooted into the DNA of all creatures, and to an extent the laws of physics itself (think gravity and the formation of our solar system and/or galaxy).

 

Conflict between creatures drives adaptation and evolution to a stronger and more successful creature, otherwise that creature dies off. Since humans have become the dominant species of this planet, we must create our own conflict for progress, either physically or mentally. How that conflict manifests is largely up to us. It's also one of the many reasons a by-definition "Utopia" is effectively impossible, because that definition explicitly requires a lack of conflict.

Link to comment

For some, it's ego, and having been coddled their childhood and never being allowed to fail and learn... AND, their failure was the fault of someone else that caused it. So, ego steps in to say, you can do this... and fail... "Not my fault... blame so and so..." try it again... etc etc etc, and never learn WHY they fail, because they are convinced it was never their fault.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, NymphoElf said:

we must create our own conflict for progress

So, you're saying that evolutionary instinct is at least partly to blame. I agree. Do you think boredom gives us too much time to reflect on past mistakes almost obsessively and develop a profound sense of culpability, guilt? I still think we beat ourselves up over feelings of guilt or inadequacies.

 

43 minutes ago, LadySmoks said:

never learn WHY they fail, because they are convinced it was never their fault

Ego huh? Good point. I'll think about that.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Do you think boredom gives us too much time to reflect on past mistakes almost obsessively and develop a profound sense of culpability, guilt?

To an extent, yes. The mind requires purpose, direction, drive. Without them, it looks for something to focus on. The easiest things to focus on in those instances are some of the most impactful moments of our lives, which are typically mistakes we have made. Mistakes are mentally prevalent, whether consciously or subconsciously, in order for those mistakes to be avoided in the future.

 

We can make a mental effort to reflect on the positives, but that's typically a conscious effort and must be repeatedly performed before it becomes a subconscious effort. It requires discipline.

 

However, it's important to not forget our mistakes. We must learn from them. Our successes and failures make us who we are, no matter how big or small those successes and failures may be.

 

Feeling guilty or inadequate is not inherently a bad thing. Becoming drowned in those feelings is. Admittedly easier said than done.

Link to comment

Depends on the context. In certain cases doing things the "hard" way can yield bigger benefits in the long run. This kind of mentality can be found in the "overachiever" types. It's what separates the likes of Latifi from the likes of Hamilton so to speak, to be among the best in a competitive sense you have to be kind of a "glutton for punishment" or a masochist if it's in a submissive BDSM sense.

 

But in a different context other than those two, that mentality can be seriously damaging and create irreversible complications for many.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Mr. Otaku said:

doing things the "hard" way can yield bigger benefits in the long run

True. But, as you say, that depends on what "benefit" we are desiring in the first place. I was more talking about why if given two or more paths to the same end, we might choose the harder one. If we are not sufficiently challenged in life and we make things harder to compensate, like NymphoElf stated, then aren't we in fact limiting ourselves? If we create strife where there was none before because we were "bored" or don't feel "challenged" enough, then what I was saying about sabotaging things knowingly or subconsciously is also true. This chaos we create is in order to grow? But, what happens when the feelings of the person come into play? Could not one that is emotionally troubled feel a greater need to cause trouble in an effort to further compensate? This seems true when thinking about people that have experienced significant emotional trauma and just "fall apart" so to speak.

Link to comment

Not gonna go in and individually quote and go point for point, but.. in a general sense on this "gluttons for punishment" thing, I think a good portion of it also lies in the fact that society basically gives us completely mixed messages from day 1.

 

"They" will tell you, "be kind, be generous, love your fellow (wo)man" and all that good stuff, yet those who society tends to elevate are (in general) the moguls.  Those who step on who they must, take what they wish, and build some manner of empire, whether it be in terms of money, power, or fame.

 

Not saying no one rich or famous is actually a decent person or anything, nor that there aren't plenty of poor, suffering asshats out there too, but seems to me we'd all have a much clearer idea of the "path to happiness" if we could ever get a clear sense of just what the fuck that's supposed to entail exactly.  Even if you try to give up on some of the big dreams and just live a decent, relatively humble life, it's hard to find true happiness there without some serious deep-held spiritual devotion to the idea.  Every time you look around, see all those things you DO want but for whatever reason can't have, it spins us all around again and basically we can either damn near kill ourselves trying to attain them, or sigh, go back to what we were doing and wonder "why not me?"

 

Some of us are better than others at defining our OWN happiness, where it doesn't depend on societal ideology, but really I think for most of us, it isn't usually so easy.  Couple all of this with the (almost always true) adage that "we are our own worst critic", and that only deepens despair and resignation when we don't have a beach house in the Maldives, a garage full of classic muscle cars, or at least a wonderful and/or gorgeous someone special on our arm.  We almost can't really help figuring that on some level, that's our fault.  Sure, lots of people will adopt a cynical "Fuck everyone, it's all THEM being assholes!" attitude, though deep down, that's usually more an excuse and cover than anything.  None of us likes to be left out.

 

Meh.. it's a deep and complicated issue.  Really didn't even mean to get that into the whole mess.  ;)

Link to comment
1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

True. But, as you say, that depends on what "benefit" we are desiring in the first place. I was more talking about why if given two or more paths to the same end, we might choose the harder one.

I understand what you're saying, and that's why i emphasized quite heavily on the contexts that the mentality would fit or not fit in. Benefits can be subjective depending on the person, and the goal in question doesn't have to be the absolute end where you can reach via a comfortable path and not go any further. Taking the hard way to reach your immediate goal can prepare you in ways that allow you to be better prepared for challenges in the future that will truly test you. Being a glutton for punishment can keep you one step ahead of your problems at all times.

 

Think of it like practicing twice as hard as you need to so that the real test becomes half as hard. Then you carry over all the gains and work twice as hard again, repeating the process until you've become kind of an overachiever. That's the benefit as well as the goal. I'm simplifying it quite a bit obviously, but that's the idea behind it where i can see the hard way being the better way.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Kitty said:

Meh.. it's a deep and complicated issue.

Anything involving "evolved" carbon based life forms usually is, lol.

 

More on point, you surmise that people are highly frustrated with their life sometimes and unsure whom or what to blame. They'll pick something or someone consciously and it usually isn't themselves. However, deep down they know who's responsible. They hide or they lash out at whatever they've picked instead of trying to come to grips with their shortcomings/feelings. They make things harder for not only themselves, also those around them.

Link to comment
17 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Anything involving "evolved" carbon based life forms usually is, lol.

 

More on point, you surmise that people are highly frustrated with their life sometimes and unsure whom or what to blame. They'll pick something or someone consciously and it usually isn't themselves. However, deep down they know who's responsible. They hide or they lash out at whatever they've picked instead of trying to come to grips with their shortcomings/feelings. They make things harder for not only themselves, also those around them.

Yeah, in general.

 

I mean, I really sorta hate generalizations but.. some of them do apply for the most part.  And of course, it stands to reason that while even the rich, powerful, famous etc have bad days and frustrations of their own, certain things just aren't in their wheelhouse to be all bitchy about.  I mean, if you're a rock god or something and you've got like 12 chicks on your arm any given day, you lack much credibility when you start bitching you can't find a girlfriend.  :P

 

Sure, they may all be vapid whores, but that's a lot more than most of us will ever get.  xD

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Psalam said:

I don't know. Ever heard of Meghan Markle (and the Oprah)?

Only barely.  I really pay very little attention to current events.  Generally too depressing of just piss me off.  xD

 

Only real point was that 'suffering' is highly subjective (like most things), and I tend to not hear people whining about being broke when they're worth millions, lonely when they're surrounded by sycophants, hungry when they own a restaurant chain... basically some version of "the grass is always greener, but try a mile in someone with *real* problems' shoes"  ;)

Link to comment
On 3/21/2021 at 6:38 PM, NymphoElf said:

eventually we look for a challenge.

 

On 3/21/2021 at 6:38 PM, NymphoElf said:

we must create our own conflict for progress, either physically or mentally

 

This pretty much explains why I have become a master procrastinator - sometimes waiting till the last possible second to do or complete something. It challenges me with knowledge that failure will have consequences, and I suddenly find myself pushing myself to succeed. Now I know enough to avoid doing this when there is possibility of failure due to outside influences - like traffic for example.... I always leave early enough to give myself plenty of time. Yet other things entirely within my 'control' I find waiting till it's right at that cusp. For those wanting an example, how about holding ones piss.... right up to pissing ones pants, but instead making it to the toilet in time. Is that a new dance? You could say that.

 

If I failed more, then this would be a good example of being a glutton for punishment.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. For more information, see our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use