Ambient Slaves SE/VR

[gargamel9]

2 hours ago, gregaaz said:

Here's part 2 of my conflict resolution blog. @gargamel9, please check out the final part at the end regarding the Windhelm docks. Is this something you are planning to address in future versions? There are some conflicts with other mods in this area because of other statics in the area and of course floating terrain can always be problematic, but I don't want to go in and spin up a super complex patch if you're going to be addressing it on your own.

 

 

I responded in more detail in your blog, but as for my addressing the Windhelm pier bug, I did not consider it much of an issue, as in my game the NPCs usually manage to get over the step, and then I forgot about it. As for updates, none are coming before spring, and even spring is uncertain for AS. I first need to finish my new enslavement mod, which will send the player either to SS++, or to a Frostbite Clan facility, what will be the first step in implementing my slavery overlay over AS. Then I'll add some quarries and mines in AS, so that's when it'll get updated. I'm hoping sometime around summer, but as said, my new job is pretty intense. Then I'll finally try and make a mod which will put the player through some harsh slave treatment at the hands of the Frostbite Clan in said quarries and mines. I just wish I could inflate time, because I have so many ideas...

[gargamel9]

@gregaaz, I forgot to add, if you're up for making your patch public, I'd like it as a basis for my further development of the mod, when I get started again, that is if you are willing to share. I can also post it in my files, with credits of course, or you can post it in yours, either way is fine with me. What matters to me is for the greatest amount of people having the greatest amount of fun possible, so I'm all for spreading my files through any channels available, and for people to use my work for their own mods in any way they see fit, apart, of course, anything involving children...

How does that mention thingy work? I can't seem to get it appear.

Edited December 1, 2021 by gargamel9

[gregaaz]

1 hour ago, gargamel9 said:

@gregaaz, I forgot to add, if you're up for making your patch public, I'd like it as a basis for my further development of the mod, when I get started again, that is if you are willing to share. I can also post it in my files, with credits of course, or you can post it in yours, either way is fine with me. What matters to me is for the greatest amount of people having the greatest amount of fun possible, so I'm all for spreading my files through any channels available, and for people to use my work for their own mods in any way they see fit, apart, of course, anything involving children...

 

I dig it. I haven't uploaded any files yet because until I get to the last part of my effort, the finished products might change a bit. But I'd be quite happy to share. Since you want to use them for ongoing development, please feel free to distribute them once they are ready. I'll keep you posted! 

 

1 hour ago, gargamel9 said:

I responded in more detail in your blog, but as for my addressing the Windhelm pier bug, I did not consider it much of an issue, as in my game the NPCs usually manage to get over the step, and then I forgot about it. As for updates, none are coming before spring, and even spring is uncertain for AS. I first need to finish my new enslavement mod, which will send the player either to SS++, or to a Frostbite Clan facility, what will be the first step in implementing my slavery overlay over AS. Then I'll add some quarries and mines in AS, so that's when it'll get updated. I'm hoping sometime around summer, but as said, my new job is pretty intense. Then I'll finally try and make a mod which will put the player through some harsh slave treatment at the hands of the Frostbite Clan in said quarries and mines. I just wish I could inflate time, because I have so many ideas...

 

No worries. I'll fiddle around with Windhelm Docks if I get time and see if I can improve the NPC traversal a bit - at least, once I've gone through everything else. Quarries and mines sounds interest - will look forward to checking those out in the future. 

 

Thank you, BTW, for the helpful screen shots on my blog. I'll compare those to what I'm seeing in game to see if I can nail down why it's acting funny. 

 

Quote

How does that mention thingy work? I can't seem to get it appear.

 

Can you elaborate on which mention thingy you're referring to? I'm probably just being dense but I'm not sure what you mean

[gargamel9]

16 hours ago, gregaaz said:

But I'd be quite happy to share. Since you want to use them for ongoing development, please feel free to distribute them once they are ready. I'll keep you posted! 

Thank you very much! I'll credit you as collaborator.

 

Thanks for the docks!
 

The mention thingy, I meant here in the forum, you "mentioned" me, what prompted a notification in my feed. It seems like a more efficient way to poke someone in the thread, rather than quoting, as often quoting for just notifications' sake can be somewhat misleading. It's the @username... okay as I am writing this, a context menu popped up listing usernames. I suppose that's how you do it. It did not pop up when I was addressing you last time. So this issue just resolved itself.  

[elekszid]

@gargamel9

 

Are you planning to add PAHE compatibility to buy and sell slaves?

[gregaaz]

Some good news, I did a little fiddling with my configuration and the issues with terrain gaps at the Windhelm docks seem to be have gone away. At some point I want to take a closer look at the navmesh in that corner area (maybe add some smaller steps to make it easier for shorter NPCs to ascend) but by and large that looks good now. I just need to do a patch that moves the barrel and fishing spot up above the new "floor" of the dock.

 

I'm going to try to get part 3 of the blog posted this weekend, which will wrap up the project and then I can share the modified plugins with you.

 

EDIT - actually, I think I have some insight into the problem. I noticed that I was having trouble going up the "sticky" stairs and on further investigation it looks like the bounding box for those end cap pieces does not factor in the "cut out" sections in the corners. Which means that before I could climb up to the its level, I was hitting a thigh-high invisible wall. I bet this is what the NPCs are getting stuck on also. When time permits, I'll investigate possible workarounds.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by gregaaz

[gregaaz]

Got another entry in the blog. Some of the Navmesh stuff is taking longer than I expected (doesn't it always?) but I'll keep the blogs coming so you can see things take shape.

 

 

[gargamel9]

6 hours ago, gregaaz said:

Got another entry in the blog. Some of the Navmesh stuff is taking longer than I expected (doesn't it always?) but I'll keep the blogs coming so you can see things take shape.

 

 

Again, this is some pretty amazing work! Your avatar is befitting . I was wondering, would would you recommend I do, what rues to follow, when I embark on expanding AS, in order to reduce the amount of work that is necessary to resolve all those conflicts, identical records etc.? To avoid creating them in the first place? Some are probably unavoidable, as I can hardly take into account mods I have not installed, but I am pretty sure there is at least something I can do.
Luckily, the upcoming new areas will be in much more remote locations, so there's that. But still. Thanks again!

[gregaaz]

4 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

Again, this is some pretty amazing work! Your avatar is befitting . I was wondering, would would you recommend I do, what rues to follow, when I embark on expanding AS, in order to reduce the amount of work that is necessary to resolve all those conflicts, identical records etc.? To avoid creating them in the first place? Some are probably unavoidable, as I can hardly take into account mods I have not installed, but I am pretty sure there is at least something I can do.
Luckily, the upcoming new areas will be in much more remote locations, so there's that. But still. Thanks again!

 

There's really no good way to avoid creating ITMs - while you can avoid them through some practices, these tend to make the CK a lot more frustrating to use since you have to work around its quirks. In my experience, the best approach to those is to just clean the mod in xEdit before publishing an update. 

 

You're absolutely right that its impossible to take every mod (or every combination of mods!) into account when resolving conflicts. When I make mods, I normally choose one or two mods that I'll explicitly avoid or resolve conflicts with (the unofficial patch, for example) and I listen for feedback about other conflicts and try to support those when possible. I do check against my "working" load order for major conflicts also and try to manage those, but I don't go out of my way to track down stuff like that. 

 

You are correct that putting stuff in remote locations will definitely reduce your conflict resolution burden, though I don't think that's absolutely mandatory. If something for your mod really looks good in a particular place, don't be afraid to claim it - it's not your job to maintain 100% perfect compatibility because that's just impossible. Though... I do need to move that Whiterun slaver's outpost at some point. I'm in the early planning stages on an add-on for the Whiterun area that adds an "Old Tannery District" where all the various shady businesses can go - this mod, Cannabis Skyrim, Whiterun Brothel, Laura's Bondage Shop, Bardal's Company (if it ever returns/gets finished), and so forth - maybe also the house from Wartimes. That ought to go a long way to deconflict my Whiterun region.

 

Edit - on addendum to the first paragraph that's specific to navmeshes. If you need to edit a navmesh, try to avoid changes where you merge or split vanilla navmeshes unless you absolutely have to (for example, the island navmesh at Riften Dockside is unavoidable - you just need to repair the deletion afterwards - whereas the island navmesh at Windhelm Docks could have been avoided). This will save you some work repairing deleted navmeshes later on. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by gregaaz

[gargamel9]

3 hours ago, gregaaz said:

 

There's really no good way to avoid creating ITMs - while you can avoid them through some practices, these tend to make the CK a lot more frustrating to use since you have to work around its quirks. In my experience, the best approach to those is to just clean the mod in xEdit before publishing an update. 

 

You're absolutely right that its impossible to take every mod (or every combination of mods!) into account when resolving conflicts. When I make mods, I normally choose one or two mods that I'll explicitly avoid or resolve conflicts with (the unofficial patch, for example) and I listen for feedback about other conflicts and try to support those when possible. I do check against my "working" load order for major conflicts also and try to manage those, but I don't go out of my way to track down stuff like that. 

 

You are correct that putting stuff in remote locations will definitely reduce your conflict resolution burden, though I don't think that's absolutely mandatory. If something for your mod really looks good in a particular place, don't be afraid to claim it - it's not your job to maintain 100% perfect compatibility because that's just impossible. Though... I do need to move that Whiterun slaver's outpost at some point. I'm in the early planning stages on an add-on for the Whiterun area that adds an "Old Tannery District" where all the various shady businesses can go - this mod, Cannabis Skyrim, Whiterun Brothel, Laura's Bondage Shop, Bardal's Company (if it ever returns/gets finished), and so forth - maybe also the house from Wartimes. That ought to go a long way to deconflict my Whiterun region.

 

Edit - on addendum to the first paragraph that's specific to navmeshes. If you need to edit a navmesh, try to avoid changes where you merge or split vanilla navmeshes unless you absolutely have to (for example, the island navmesh at Riften Dockside is unavoidable - you just need to repair the deletion afterwards - whereas the island navmesh at Windhelm Docks could have been avoided). This will save you some work repairing deleted navmeshes later on. 

Thanks for the reply! I'll try to avoid separating islands from existing navmeshes, or joining them then. I suppose it doesn't hurt if I don't touch triangles at the borders of cells, too(?). I'm trying to avoid that in my newest mod. Right now, though, I am making no progress at all. I wish I had a team to task I have such an elaborate and complex slavery system in mind. In particular, I'm looking forward to the quarries and mines, if I ever get there, in VR. The idea is, that you will be imprisoned at the premises and guards will make you mine ore from indepletable veins. Your inventory will be disabled or reduced so that you can only hold the pickaxe. You will have to then load the ore into baskets (using HIGGS) or onto carts and then bring those to a collection area, while being constantly harrassed by the guards and other slaves (as the mod will grow, you will also be able to befriend some slaves and maybe hatch an escape plan, or other scenarios). My hope is that this should make the players feel like they're really slaving. It'll be very physical. Unfortunately this means that I will have to also develop a much different SSE version for all the others, as the bove described mechanics will never work in SSE. So that's the remote location I was talking about. For mines and quarries it makes sense and adds to the atmosphere, especially with some nasty traps around, for escapees. I'm very excited about this idea, but it'll probably take me years *sigh*.

[gregaaz]

4 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

Thanks for the reply! I'll try to avoid separating islands from existing navmeshes, or joining them then. I suppose it doesn't hurt if I don't touch triangles at the borders of cells, too(?). I'm trying to avoid that in my newest mod.

 

 

It's not a bad practice to follow, though there's an important caveat: these are all fine to do if you need to do them. Like the split navmesh you made by the Riften gates was fine because it was the only way to achieve the setup you wanted. 

 

4 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

Right now, though, I am making no progress at all. I wish I had a team to task I have such an elaborate and complex slavery system in mind.

 

I feel your pain. I have a long-term back burner project of fleshing out the outfit system to reflect the region, heritage, politics, and religion of the actors, but there are just so many little moving parts that it's hard to just grind away at - especially when I'm constantly finding other projects to work on!

 

 

4 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

 

In particular, I'm looking forward to the quarries and mines, if I ever get there, in VR. The idea is, that you will be imprisoned at the premises and guards will make you mine ore from indepletable veins. Your inventory will be disabled or reduced so that you can only hold the pickaxe. You will have to then load the ore into baskets (using HIGGS) or onto carts and then bring those to a collection area, while being constantly harrassed by the guards and other slaves (as the mod will grow, you will also be able to befriend some slaves and maybe hatch an escape plan, or other scenarios).

 

This sounds conceptually very much like Slaves of Tamriel ++. You might want to connect with the authors and find out if they have any advice on best practices for achieving your goals. Might help avoid rework and give you advanced notice about possible pitfalls or shortcuts.

 

4 minutes ago, gargamel9 said:

My hope is that this should make the players feel like they're really slaving. It'll be very physical. Unfortunately this means that I will have to also develop a much different SSE version for all the others, as the bove described mechanics will never work in SSE. So that's the remote location I was talking about. For mines and quarries it makes sense and adds to the atmosphere, especially with some nasty traps around, for escapees. I'm very excited about this idea, but it'll probably take me years *sigh*.

 

Sounds like a pretty ambitious project. You might want to consider mapping out a project plan so you can attack each component separately; might make it less likely to overwhelm you and cause burnout.

 

On an unrelated note, I just posted part 4 of the blog, which details a couple of navmesh patching operations.

 

 

[gargamel9]

3 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

 

It's not a bad practice to follow, though there's an important caveat: these are all fine to do if you need to do them. Like the split navmesh you made by the Riften gates was fine because it was the only way to achieve the setup you wanted. 

 

 

I feel your pain. I have a long-term back burner project of fleshing out the outfit system to reflect the region, heritage, politics, and religion of the actors, but there are just so many little moving parts that it's hard to just grind away at - especially when I'm constantly finding other projects to work on!

 

 

 

This sounds conceptually very much like Slaves of Tamriel ++. You might want to connect with the authors and find out if they have any advice on best practices for achieving your goals. Might help avoid rework and give you advanced notice about possible pitfalls or shortcuts.

 

 

Sounds like a pretty ambitious project. You might want to consider mapping out a project plan so you can attack each component separately; might make it less likely to overwhelm you and cause burnout.

 

On an unrelated note, I just posted part 4 of the blog, which details a couple of navmesh patching operations.

 

Man, you're on fire! I think I have a pretty good idea about the order in which I want to do stuff. Burnout is always a concern. I learned that regular switching between projects helps, although it makes progress even slower. Apart from Skyrim I am also heavily invested in making my own 3D-printed garden railway Other stuff, too.
In an ideal world, I would have some slaves or acolytes who would do my bidding. Then stuff would happen quick, as in terms the systems, how everything should work, I have it thought out in fair detail. I pretty much know exactly what needs to be done. But bringing myself to do it is a whole another story...

 

[gregaaz]

Thanks for your patience everyone, here's the next entry in my blog. Navmeshes are finally all done, so the end is in sight

 

 

[research account]

so my game ctds with ambient slave enabled

[gargamel9]

3 hours ago, research account said:

so my game ctds with ambient slave enabled

Even with the latest version? (0.2c) Did you install compatibility patches, if applicable? (see list)
There could be a conflict with a mod that isn't included.

Otherwise I would try starting a new game/loading a clean, unmodded save, and if that doesn't help, reinstalling the game and all mods (if it's worth it for you) and/or using MO2. For some reason, in MO2, my game is much more stable, and I haven't had to reinstall it a single CTD issue.
Try disabling any mods that have no patch and which could be adding assets in the areas where the Frostbite Clan premises are (those can all be seen in the pictures).

[Durante]

Looks very promising, would be neat to have support for PAH mods to buy or sell

[Baltasarr80]

Or it has similar functions that would also be great because ... this one already has some feature that are missing in Hydragon and also has the possibility to make something that devious framework couldnt do

[research account]

17 hours ago, gargamel9 said:

Even with the latest version? (0.2c) Did you install compatibility patches, if applicable? (see list)
There could be a conflict with a mod that isn't included.

Otherwise I would try starting a new game/loading a clean, unmodded save, and if that doesn't help, reinstalling the game and all mods (if it's worth it for you) and/or using MO2. For some reason, in MO2, my game is much more stable, and I haven't had to reinstall it a single CTD issue.
Try disabling any mods that have no patch and which could be adding assets in the areas where the Frostbite Clan premises are (those can all be seen in the pictures).

i have the latest 0.2c version i installed compatibility patches , iam using mo2

 

this is what my crash log says

 

Possible relevant objects (5)
{
  [   1]    Character(FormId: EF0DB566, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: TESNPC(Name: `Slave`, FormId: EF0DB565, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`))
  [   1]    TESNPC(Name: `Slave`, FormId: EF0DB565, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`)
  [   1]    TESObjectREFR(FormId: EF0DB4D0, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: null)
  [   1]    TESObjectCELL(Name: MarkarthFrostbiteClanOutpost `Frostbite Clan Markarth Outpost`, FormId: EF0D5BFA, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`)
  [  68]    TESPackage(FormId: 0003EAB9, File: `Skyrim.esm`)
}

[gargamel9]

16 hours ago, Durante said:

Looks very promising, would be neat to have support for PAH mods to buy or sell

I am not planning on integrating PAH, but eventually, there will be a slavery system of my own. A much different one.

[gargamel9]

15 hours ago, Baltasarr80 said:

Or it has similar functions that would also be great because ... this one already has some feature that are missing in Hydragon and also has the possibility to make something that devious framework couldnt do

Those are eventually coming, but it's still far away, as I have little time, and am not very proficient in programming. It could take years, but it's coming.

[gargamel9]

2 hours ago, research account said:

i have the latest 0.2c version i installed compatibility patches , iam using mo2

 

this is what my crash log says

 

Possible relevant objects (5)
{
  [   1]    Character(FormId: EF0DB566, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: TESNPC(Name: `Slave`, FormId: EF0DB565, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`))
  [   1]    TESNPC(Name: `Slave`, FormId: EF0DB565, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`)
  [   1]    TESObjectREFR(FormId: EF0DB4D0, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: null)
  [   1]    TESObjectCELL(Name: MarkarthFrostbiteClanOutpost `Frostbite Clan Markarth Outpost`, FormId: EF0D5BFA, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`)
  [  68]    TESPackage(FormId: 0003EAB9, File: `Skyrim.esm`)
}

I'll consult this with gregaaz, he might have an idea, thanks for the feedback.

[Baltasarr80]

One question should i stay for now with 0.2b or go with 0.2c in a new game? Im talking about the exterior changes

[gargamel9]

26 minutes ago, Baltasarr80 said:

One question should i stay for now with 0.2b or go with 0.2c in a new game? Im talking about the exterior changes

If 0.2b works fine, there isn't really a reason, as in, don't fix what isn't broke. That said, greaaz's cleanup of the mod fixes numerous navmesh issues and ITMs, as well as other stuff, which can potentially cause problems in combination with other mods, so it should be the superior version. It doesn't change any of the outposts, any interiors or exteriors in any noticeable way, and it does not add any new features NPCs etc. It's just a fix that hopefully will allow the mod to by run by many of the people who were experiencing CTDs, though, as you can read above, CTDs can still come up for some.

[gargamel9]

14 hours ago, research account said:

i have the latest 0.2c version i installed compatibility patches , iam using mo2

 

this is what my crash log says

 

Possible relevant objects (5)
{
  [   1]    Character(FormId: EF0DB566, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: TESNPC(Name: `Slave`, FormId: EF0DB565, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`))
  [   1]    TESNPC(Name: `Slave`, FormId: EF0DB565, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`)
  [   1]    TESObjectREFR(FormId: EF0DB4D0, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: null)
  [   1]    TESObjectCELL(Name: MarkarthFrostbiteClanOutpost `Frostbite Clan Markarth Outpost`, FormId: EF0D5BFA, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`)
  [  68]    TESPackage(FormId: 0003EAB9, File: `Skyrim.esm`)
}

I'm forwarding the reply from gregaaz, my resident genius. It seems, the problem is with the ZAZ version:
 

" [   1]    TESObjectREFR(FormId: EF0DB4D0, File: `Ambient Slaves SE.esp`, BaseForm: null)"

 

This is the problem here. Without looking at the file, my guess is that this is a piece of ZAZ furniture and the user is running an old version of the ZAP, probably 7.0.

 

Actually, before I click "send" I'll check in xEdit... yeah, note the baseform. The issue is the ZAP, and most likely you'll discover that the user is either running an out of date version or doing something ill advised like installing both 7 and 8+ and letting the plugin for 7 "win" the conflict.

 

[Hpl55]

Thanks for this.

 

any option to turn off synth voice please? Its soo uh immersion-breaking