The Future of TK17 ?

[hdiddy]

1 minute ago, _K17_ said:

I want to clarify a few things;

First, between Avarteas statement and mine, there were talk to see what could change Avarteas mind,

and we arrive on that conclusion (the end of my first post).

So this is not a bad interpretation of Avarteas statement, we all agree on this, including Avarteas.

 

So far all I see is Admins not willing to face the problem, but blaming the messenger;

First accusing me of fabricating Avarteas statement (then it was proving it is real).

Then saying I'm interpreting (explained above).

Then saying that there is no paywall content (when content are sold in Patreon, that they approve on KE site).

Etc.

 

They focused on everything except the community,

by trying to make thing personal, they did not address the real question;

 

Do you want TK17 project to continue?

If so, are you willing to negotiate?

 

After 5 pages, they still did not answer the basic questions.

I will repeat, time for division, insult, accusation is over,

we need to move forward together, or we will fall together,

like it or not we're all on the same boat.

 

Whats your basic question? Because you seem to not have answered mine. So what exactly do you want know that we have not answered?

[Joaku]

4 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

Do you want TK17 project to continue?

 

I'm onboard. Can pledge 10-20 $ a month. 

 

What's the problem in terms of keeping a domain? Is it the massive amount of content theft that carries the whole thing?  ?

 

[Edit] With the absolute caveat that there are absolutely no paywalls (other than whatever's going on with Hook). The Garden was always about freely creating and sharing content, and anything less than that is deplorable. 

[hdiddy]

Also if you want to discuss let's discuss like adults. Ball is in your court K17. The round table is open. Anyone who is a mod here and on discord has access to it, so lets discuss.

 

[Number251137]

15 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

Do you want TK17 project to continue?

 

Nah. Let it die. Kill it if you have to.

 

No good has ever come of threats and co-ercion. Do this and this or we'll do this and this. Really? Nowhere in this sorry thread has there once been an explanation as to why another site could not be created. Any believe it or not, I have been a big proponent of this. "Stop whining about KE," I said, "and go and help K17 create ModsGarden 2.0. Be bold. Be adventrous. Do something positive and make Klub 17 history." I said.

 

So I am all in favour of a second site, with a different philosophy. But if you absolutely refuse in every way to create another site then... stop. Give it up. Do something else. Because in humanity's long history, it is incredibly rare for someone to start off with, "Do this and this or X and & Y will happen!" and actually get what they want. So I'm calling your bluff.

 

Good luck with the rest of your life and I hope you remain safe and well. Farewell! 

[hdiddy]

Ok kill it then. That's on you.

[hdiddy]

I also guess we should tell the owner of Sugar and Spice to shut down his site also right? Or is this just about KE?

[EJAX]

25 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

Do you want TK17 project to continue?

 

 

Whilst I have no actual say in the matter, I figure he who has his name on the box gets to say what happens to The Klub17, no? If others want to start their own projects, then more power to them; just tell me where I have to go to get YOUR updates, cuz this is the only place I know of at the moment.

[hdiddy]

Also responding back to an accusation I made about @daspex, My apologies for assuming anything that you were not. Thanks for PMing me about it.

[hdiddy]

29 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

To address the silent majority that could be intimidate of speaking out (you cannot blame them),

we made a poll.

 

Note that we didn't put a 3rd option, because Avarteas made it clear that 2 sites is not an option.

The Admins may not care about TK17 Future,

but what about the rest of the community?

Well, then you have your answer.  KE is not the official MG replacement. You have said that numerous times. So go create the MG 2.0 and problems are solved. Unless you are trying to control who is allowed to create TK17 communities which is a totally different discussion.

[Gemini Saga]

I was feeling reluctant to bring my ass here as sometimes language barrier factor is that big in some places that any intent of throwing some light on the shadows it disembogue into a massive catastrophe
 

But if someone really wants my dimes on the matter allow me to extend myself:
 

I'm legitely concern about what I read in these pages, being the biggest one a some sort of emotional manipulation determined by the usage of the words of a team member against an initiative proposed by other members without fiendish mean at all
I genuinely respect avarteas for what he did and will do (want to believe he'll do) for the game development, he have litteraly turned VX in what it is right now, nobody will deny this!
 

Now, whereas I understand his communication to you what I can't get is how someone could be such miserable to use that statement and spread terrorist messages like "So, you want for TK17 to die?" just spreading fear among the poor little lambs that depend either of you or from people on KE! I'd say is a quicksand trap very well made but I'll give you the chance for changing my mind, so go ahead I warn that I read first then I draw conclusions and the one I drew right now doesn't seem to be a wrong conclusion at all, isn't it?
Also, I think that requesting Smoke to cease being part of the staff of KE in order to get a meltingpot on this drama is a little bit more your personal thing towards him which if I still reviewing the facts it have no foundations at all

Do not get me wrong K17, I have respected everybody in this community I even have felt myself ignored by important people in this community but never in my life I thought I would end up being emotionally manipulated

I think that if avarteas want to argue he's more than invited to talk here or adress the guys into the other open channels but from the bottom of my heart I tell you this, do not play with people this way!

I'm pretty sure this message will fall on oblivion or it will pass with no transcendence at all but I just want to help for people to open their eyes for a bit when it comes to manipulative messages!

Peace!

[AbSTD]

Guys I honestly don't think this discussion is going anywhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I honestly believe that the only issue that holds any real importance here is Avarteas and his position in regards of continuing developement.

If he is not in this discussion we are basically talking about nothing and we'll never find a solution. Would it be at all possible to have him join us directly?

On one side I understand not wanting the development of the game to stop and advocating for a solutions that allows it to proceed, on the other though I also find merit in the ideas of those not wanting to completely throw away a potentially good project just to accomodate the needs of one person who is not even talking to them.

I have the outmost respect for Avarteas and truly value his amazing work for which I'll always be grateful, but alienating yourself from the discussion when pretty much everything revolves around you does not look like the most sensible thing to do...

[EJAX]

15 minutes ago, mrwrong said:

Please understand this, because it is getting boring repeating it:

 

The lead developer of TK17 does not like the direction you have taken the community since the death of MG, and will stop developing unless that direction is changed.

Why stop developing? Just open another site and let 'em do whatever they're gonna do. It's not like anyone holds a copyright, or anything. Then everyone can carry on the game of "The Company Who Shall Not Be Named", just under a new name.

[hdiddy]

8 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

They could try to bury the facts, but it's all a question of money.

Avarteas don't want KE to profit from our work,

We are not, but if you call site donations to the site for upkeep, profit, well how were you expecting to keep MG 2.0 running?

 

9 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

That's why a second site is not the answer, Avarteas will quit if KE continue to sell content.

We don't end of story.

 

10 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

Contrary to what you may think, I was in favor of a second site,

but Avarteas made it clear he is not, and as a Team we support him.

Well I guess you have some convincing to do, Team leader.

 

10 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

Also, as soon as money is involve, you attract 3X attention,

the company with more lawyers then programmers.

We cannot go into the details, but I can tell you this,

you have their attention, like sharks to blood.

Ok...see my first question, how where you planning on paying for MG 2.0? Last I checked you were going to take donations.  So what exactly is the difference between what we did and what you are supposed to be doing?

[AbSTD]

Look people I was just thinking: if hypothetically we could take the real money (which is already not the main thing in KE, believe me, I'm an insider ? ) thing out of the picture completely while keeping the point system in place (it's a good idea guys it solves the leecher problem while giving everybody the same potential chance of contribution\reward) would this be acceptable for all the parties involved?

 

This is just a wild idea I pulled out of my ass, I know, but is there a chance to make this a starting point?

Also K17, you seem to be in contact with our good man Avarteas, could you ask him what it would take to bring him to the table?

[hdiddy]

3 minutes ago, AbSTD said:

Look people I was just thinking: if hypothetically we could take the real money (which is already not the main thing in KE, believe me, I'm an insider ? ) thing out of the picture completely while keeping the point system in place (it's a good idea guys it solves the leecher problem while giving everybody the same potential chance of contribution\reward) would this be acceptable for all the parties involved?

 

This is just a wild idea I pulled out of my ass, I know, but is there a chance to make this a starting point?

Also K17, you seem to be in contact with our good man Avarteas, could you ask him what it would take to bring him to the table?

Just want to make sure it is crystal Clear the only real money we take is site donations, and it does not use Patreon, we have or own internal donations payment system that keeps everything within the walls of KE. We don't sell points with our points system and will never sell points.

 

People get points by contributing to the community and redeem points though downloading content.  It is that simple.

[_K17_]

5 minutes ago, AbSTD said:

Look people I was just thinking: if hypothetically we could take the real money (which is already not the main thing in KE, believe me, I'm an insider ? ) thing out of the picture completely while keeping the point system in place (it's a good idea guys it solves the leecher problem while giving everybody the same potential chance of contribution\reward) would this be acceptable for all the parties involved?

 

This is just a wild idea I pulled out of my ass, I know, but is there a chance to make this a starting point?

Also K17, you seem to be in contact with our good man Avarteas, could you ask him what it would take to bring him to the table?

I listen to everything you said, if everyone was constructive like you, we would already have a solution.

I will try to convince Avarteas to go public...

[Mr_Smoke]

6 minutes ago, AbSTD said:

Look people I was just thinking: if hypothetically we could take the real money (which is already not the main thing in KE, believe me, I'm an insider ? ) thing out of the picture completely while keeping the point system in place (it's a good idea guys it solves the leecher problem while giving everybody the same potential chance of contribution\reward) would this be acceptable for all the parties involved?

 

This is just a wild idea I pulled out of my ass, I know, but is there a chance to make this a starting point?

Also K17, you seem to be in contact with our good man Avarteas, could you ask him what it would take to bring him to the table?

You do realize that this is a personal hit against me - he single me out, called for my removal, etc. In no way did Avarteas say that. That was K17 doing. At this point, K17 has no desire to fix this issue and have this resolved. He wants to burned it all down and hiding and using the excuse that avarteas will leave to have it his way.

[EJAX]

1 minute ago, AbSTD said:

Also K17, you seem to be in contact with our good man Avarteas, could you ask him what it would take to bring him to the table?

I thought K17 answered that quite clearly... A site that's not under First World jurisdiction, with no financial strings to pull. That means finding someone who's willing to foot the bill; can provide their own servers (preferably somewhere in low-earth orbit); and who expects absolutely nothing in return. Any takers?

[Mr_Smoke]

5 hours ago, Marburg said:

funny you should mention that.

 

Nobody ever banned you from MG for saying K17 was a traitor and out to destroy the game.

Nobody banned you for making all kinds of wild unsubstantiated claims and accusations about him or the rest of the Dev Team.

 

the question is simple: do you want to "win" or do you want further devepment of the game?

 

Before you answer, maybe listen what the rest of the community feels about it.

Maybe they are not that eager to pull the trigger just yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really trying to turn this to me.

 

You are the one saying that I should not be warned because you guys can't take criticism and will try to paint me in your little narrative. I say something that looks interesting about VaM and you guys are screaming that I'm causing a rift and what to convert people into patreon paying VaM users.

 

[AbSTD]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Smoke said:

You do realize that this is a personal hit against me - he single me out, called for my removal, etc. In no way did Avarteas say that. That was K17 doing. At this point, K17 has no desire to fix this issue and have this resolved. He wants to burned it all down and hiding and using the excuse that avarteas will leave to have it his way.

I'm sorry I must confess I'm not really into the underground dynamics. Perhaps I should have remained silent, but I truly want to see this fly, so I'm trying to do what I can to find a solution; I realize my naive BS might sound ridiculous to those who are deep into this, but I honestly don't know what else to do to help.

 

IMO if we can at least involve all parties it would already be a step forward

[AbSTD]

3 minutes ago, EJAX said:

I thought K17 answered that quite clearly... A site that's not under First World jurisdiction, with no financial strings to pull. That means finding someone who's willing to foot the bill; can provide their own servers (preferably somewhere in low-earth orbit); and who expects absolutely nothing in return. Any takers?

My bad I did not explain myself. I'm not talking about making Avarteas go on with developement, just to make it possible for him to come to this club and speak for himself

 

sorry for double posting

[hdiddy]

2 minutes ago, EJAX said:

I thought K17 answered that quite clearly... A site that's not under First World jurisdiction, with no financial strings to pull. That means finding someone who's willing to foot the bill; can provide their own servers (preferably somewhere in low-earth orbit); and who expects absolutely nothing in return. Any takers?

Well actually...it was supposed to be donation supported, I guess that changed now.

 

[Mr_Smoke]

10 minutes ago, AbSTD said:

I'm sorry I must confess I'm not really into the underground dynamics. Perhaps I should have remained silent, but I truly want to see this fly, so I'm trying to do what I can to find a solution; I realize my naive BS might sound ridiculous to those who are deep into this, but I honestly don't know what else to do to help.

 

IMO if we can at least involve all parties it would already be a step forward

Honestly, don't feel bad. But at least see it from side of argument. As you saw - we are not selling mods as what they are claiming to be. In fact our goal was to salvage and create a new constructive community before it fades away.

[ntsa]

I'm the clown who voted for the first option cause you didn't add a third. Everyone here is discussing this as if TK17 is the only 3d adult character creator/posing game on the entire internet.

Let's face it, TK17 is an old zombie dog that is kept alive through a miracle tbh I don't even know what's keeping it alive. You need to stuff a lot of shit into that dog to make it work, and it's janky as hell.

Then there's this thing about paywalled this paywalled that, firstly without H5 I doubt many of us would still be playing this. Hell I haven't touched the game since the days of hook3 and 4 until last year and even then it's on and off, but H5 is already 'semi' patreon. Yes there's H5 basic but come on, the one on the patreon is from 2017, that's three years ago and wait a little more than a month four years old.

With MG dead the 2019 version isn't on loverslab in an obvious spot, but it's on klubexile, and it's already more than a year old.
Want h5 objects? Want physx hair? Want skin layers? The fact of the matter is we're already paying for stuff.

 

The old modsgarden was a utter mess, that's a fact. Search function was nigh useless, mods were all over the places. I sure as hell didn't enjoy clicking through threads after threads that were 50-100 pages long to find mods, then hoping that the links haven't expired yet, then clicking on the author's profile sending a pm hoping for a reupload only to see that the bugger hasn't logged on in years.

However did things change? No.
Why? I don't know, maybe cause no one cared.
Now it's dead, and all I can say is good riddance.

 

At the end all I see is a group of people who said they'll do something, but didn't, and another group of people who did do something, and at current that something is the best we've got in a long time. But I can't see a clear reason that's stopping the group of people who haven't done anything to do something better and make the opposition obselete, other than something something paywall.

 

Don't like it? Do it better. If it's good I'll drop KE and flock over just cause it's better and I'm sure I'll not be the only one.
If not let this old dog die and move to greener pastures. We all should probably look up and around us maybe we'll find something better.

[Mr_Smoke]

Gonna post this in big, bold fonts because K17 is literally failing to even negotiate. We extended offers to talk and he does not want to because he wants to burn it all down.

 

KE is not going anywhere. When it was launched, HDiddy and Oz offered K17 and the team to join. He said NO!

 

We have proven to debunk all rumors that we are selling mods. After we showed them the errors, they still continue to create a false narrative to we are selling stuff.

 

And speaking about "selling mods", K17 for some reason is pointing the finger  at me. After I have said - Lets talk, he fails to be a man and have a constructive discussion to fix this issue.

 

K17 and co, are constantly changing the narrative. Site going offline over the summer and eventually dying in September - they said to be fixing the issue. That issue on bringing MG online has just been vapor. In fact K17 said to creating a new site based on donation. Nothing was said until a month later, in which he said 2021 is gonna be the year for MG2 to launch.

 

Otherwise, the thread was never meant to be constructive but to stir the pot and shut down the LL club page and blame KE - maybe blame me lol. Either way, I'm done having to clean it up. If LL admin or Moderators want to shut it down - I won't be disappointed. I tried keeping it civil and clean for MG 2 but K17 does not want that.