The Future of TK17 ?

[_K17_]

Because Avarteas don't want to create an account here,

he asked me to post his message;

Quote

 

For everyone who wonders where I stand in all this I will try to resume my thoughts. I started like many others doing textures and some addons for TK17 V75 simply because I liked it and wanted to give something back to the Modsgarden community. After a while I noticed that the development on the new VX version was somehow stagnant and I was invited join the team. From there onwards I coded most of what is now VX. It has been great fun coding and designing new features.I didn't do it for any credit - virtual or otherwise but somehow I found the Garden a special place in the internet. It was some unique place that preserved what the pioneers of the internet have created. A place in which people share their creations, their ideas freely.

Unfortunately those forces that try to enslave every human being on this space rock have finally brought down this place too. The sharing of information has been commercialized and criminalized beyond all decency. The sad thing is that all their efforts could not have done harm without all the internal strife, Over many years the garden was growing and we even created the best erotic game and this while we have to compete with companies that have many more coders and artists contracted while we do our work completely without even getting a single cent from it. Thanks to those who just saw it as a opportunity to grab something for free or pushing up their egos we have been thrown back.

In any case what really bothers me is all the in-fighting that wasted our precious resources in creating alternative versions and endless posts insulting those who called for unity. This is still going on even after we have lost access to the Garden.

Many think that to pay some $$$ for addons isn't hurting that much, but It divides us into those who have and those who have not. Same like it is outside and I see no reason to invest my efforts into a virtual variant of the madness already surrounding us everywhere else. Make no mistake - I not continue working on TK17 until we have an official modsgarden replacement without paywalled content.

Well I am a bit tired as you can see from those lines and I leave it to you all to decide what to do. If you decide just to join the queue to be a good slave paying even for the air you breath than you have to walk that line but without me. Those who decide otherwise let me know and we will create something new that will make everything before be compared to the stone ages. There will be no credit, no $$$ but a hard fight.

Your choice

 

Avarteas

 

For the ones that English is not their first language, the important part is that

Avarteas will quit TK17 project, if KE continue with Paywall contents.

 

Being our main coder, it forced the rest of the Team to reevaluate the situation.

We decided to stand behind Avarteas, and unless KE change their position,

TK17 will be canned (that include VX final that was almost ready for release, and VX2 that we would all work on right after).

 

That said, we are open to negotiate for a real Garden replacement.

On the condition that KE remove any paywall contents (Patreon is OK for donation),

and that Smoke is remove from the Admin and/or moderator position.

 

Instead we would all work together for a new (or modified KE) site,

that will include Admins from both content creators, and TK17 Team.

One that will unite the community, instead of dividing it up on multiple sites.

Where content and game update, support, bug report, suggestions, etc are all present.

Also where it will be as secure as the former Garden, but better by not being run by only one person.

 

We notice that the majority are not happy with KE, they are being silence by removing their posts/threads, closing threads,

and even ban from here and KE. And when they do voice their opinions, they are label as trolls (is the Team also trolls now?).

That is how you destroy a community.

 

Not a single day, we don't receive a PM about KE complaints, when will their be a Garden replacement,

or simply saying they are quitting TK17, not mentioning all the community members that we lost when the Garden went down.

Enough is enough, to KE, things are not OK, the community is imploding and we need to do something about it.

 

So we're asking everyone, what do you prefer;

A store content only, with no more game updates,

or a new Garden site with everything, like we describe earlier?

 

Please be civil with you answers, we need constructive feedback,

time for insults/divisions is over, we either move together, or fall together.

Thank you.

 

Team K17

 

P.S. To the Admins/mods, please do not delete any posts, or close the thread.

I will manage the thread. Thank you.

[hdiddy]

@_K17_Prove that Avarteas wrote what he wrote. How do we know it is not you who wrote it.

[_K17_]

5 minutes ago, hdiddy said:

@_K17_Prove that Avarteas wrote what he wrote. How do we know it is not you who wrote it.

Good question, simply ask Smoke's Mole, he will confirm it.

[hdiddy]

You could easily just screenshot his message right here in this forum and settle it for the whole community.  So prove it.  Who is to say this is just you projecting your own issue hiding behind a name.

[_Haze_]

8 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

Good question, simply ask Smoke's Mole, he will confirm it.

Sounds like a hit to me. Why single him out? You two have had your differences, its been drama free from you 2 for a while, yet here you are causing and creating drama. Perhaps there is truth to his statement about you.

[_K17_]

6 minutes ago, hdiddy said:

You could easily just screenshot his message right here in this forum and settle it for the whole community.  So prove it.  Who is to say this is just you projecting your own issue hiding behind a name.

Not my style. If you want to deny everything it's up to you,

or we could talk about it in discord (I will try to convince Avarteas to create an account there).

Or better yet (give me a moment to PM you).

[hdiddy]

So you create a public message to speak on someones words but you can't provide their own words? Really? Sorry I don't believe you.  Here is what I think. Feel free to prove me wrong if you have the reciepts.

 

1.  You don't have a new site or anything close to a new site, so all the talk about MG 2.0 coming back is merely vapor.

2. You sent in Daspex who has account but never logins into KE to check out what we are doing.  You think we didn't know when Daspex logged in?

3. You saw not only is there nothing their paid or behind Patreon, the community is approaching 1000 active members and has already met its $650 donation goals for the year

4. In addition to that, you saw new modders and old modders bringing in content.  Not old content but new content, brand new stuff for the game.

 

So in the end you realize your personal vendetta with Smoke has put you into corner.  No site, No Community, No nothing, and now you want to bring up stories and false claims to continue to divide the community.

 

So you unless you can show something worth seeing. This is a bunch of hot air.

[_Haze_]

28 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

We notice that the majority are not happy with KE, they are being silence by removing their posts/threads, closing threads,

and even ban from here and KE. And when they do voice their opinions, they are label as trolls (is the Team also trolls now?).

That is how you destroy a community.

Lets see if this gets censored by K17 or any of his  subordinates. Gonna screenshot it too.

 

It seems like its true that you have been stroking the flames and creating drama with them. In fact you failed to controlled their attacks, that loverslab moderators had to come in and put some control in here. You are luck that they didn't delete this page. Otherwise you would be crying a blaming KE of shutting down the loverslab page.

 

You are truly pathetic. I can't believe that I had the hopes that you could of brought some unity and peace towards this game.

[hdiddy]

37 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

We notice that the majority are not happy with KE, they are being silence by removing their posts/threads, closing threads,

and even ban from here and KE. And when they do voice their opinions, they are label as trolls (is the Team also trolls now?).

That is how you destroy a community.

The majority?

 

So lets see Boomshakka, Alejandro, Kutkor, Generalkebab and all their aliases are now the majority? This 3 man majority who does not contribute a thing to the community except criticism and trolling is who you want to cater to? Really?

[_K17_]

So far, all I see is Admins on the defensive, instead of confronting the problem, simply accuse us of lying.

@hdiidy, first no idea who is Daspex, nor I went to your site,

second every single word on the main post is true,

but you don't have to believe me, let the community speak.

Then we will talk.

 

[hdiddy]

4 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

So far, all I see is Admins on the defensive, instead of confronting the problem, simply accuse us of lying.

@hdiidy, first no idea who is Daspex, nor I went to your site,

second every single word on the main post is true,

but you don't have to believe me, let the community speak.

Then we will talk.

 

To be honest this post came out of no where. Not sure the reasoning or why now, but we have just been doing or own thing. We not bothering you and you not bothering us.  Sure we have booted a few folks (about 4) out of this club for trolling, spreading misinformation, and just not helping but outside of that things have been chill.

 

So if Avarteas is not on LL, not on KE, and pretty much just on the Alpha site.  What exactly was told to him and by whom? Also what issue does Avrateas have with Smoke? Last I checked the person who has issues with Smoke is you.

[Dregar]

As someone who has joined KE since the first few days I feel compelled to react to the many wrongs in this post.

And since you are asking for feedback, here it is:

 

23 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

One that will unite the community, instead of dividing it up on multiple sites.

Where exactly is the problem with having a second community? Why is it that you two can't seem to grasp that people have their own will and are free to do what they want? Such as setting up a forum or community of their own? Why do you want to control where people flock to and make their digital home? 

 

32 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

If you decide just to join the queue to be a good slave paying even for the air you breath than you have to walk that line but without me.

Seriously? ... Just because you have some misguided sense of fighting a capitalist system, you feel the need to drag others in your fight too? And then demanding to demote an admin, 'or else...'

 

I joined KE a while ago and must say I am very happy with the way the points system is set up. I've seen you and some other trolls incessantly bring up this supposed 'paywall content'. Where exactly is this paywall content? And even if there was, why would you get worked up about it? 

 

Then on a more personal note: Modsgarden was a nice place to have, but the forums where a real mess. KE offers a good working website, a nice catalogue system, provides content I like and lets me interact with people I respect for their work. I've heard nothing from you about a replacement website, so of course when KE was brought up I was very happy and still am.

 

Please answer me this: Why would I want you to take that away from me, just because you want people to join your website (which doesn't even exist yet) instead?

 

My advise to you two would be: The only way to succeed with creating / uniting a community is to not worry about what anyone else is doing. Live and let live. In other words: Focus on your own shit and if people feel your website is better, then they will certainly flock to it instead of KE...

 

Your post is quite telling, really.

[_K17_]

7 minutes ago, hdiddy said:

Also for the 100th time we don't have any paywalls.

When there is exchange of money (Patreon) for content, that is the definition of Paywall content,

and you are the one accuse me of lying.

So far this dialog will end nowhere, we need to face the fact the community is slipping away.

You may deny it all you want, but it will not change the fact.

[hdiddy]

@MrWong LOL, PR is not my full time job and 1000+ other members on KE might disagree with you. You are free to your opinions though

[hdiddy]

2 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

When there is exchange of money (Patreon) for content, that is the definition of Paywall content,

Ok where is it? If you want to accuse us of having something then tell us what and where it is. As you said let the community know.

 

3 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

and you are the one accuse me of lying..

Well your lying about this paywall thing. Unless you want to clear up that statement

 

4 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

So far this dialog will end nowhere, we need to face the fact the community is slipping away.

You may deny it all you want, but it will not change the fact.

Is it really slipping away? Or is this more so your control over the community is slipping away?

[hdiddy]

If K17 wants to be ok with Image and Video Patreons (Which I know for a fact he is on record of saying) that is his prerogative. But to then spin up this post up and accuse us of doing something he is ok with for A&B but not C&D (which we are ok with) blows my mind.

[hdiddy]

If anything the biggest criticism we get is our points system.  People want to come in and just download to their hearts content.  Unfortunately that's not how it works, which hey we can't please everyone, but those folks usually end up requesting a delete and leave.

[_K17_]

They are so concern to defend KE finance, that they are missing the big picture;

THE KLUB 17 could die, result no more innovation, community will loose interest,

after all other sites will fall, including KE.

 

Without Avarteas we cannot do this, he simply ask for no more paying for content, is that to much to ask.

Since you say that there is no paywall content, so what is the problem to make it official (everything free)?

[_Haze_]

3 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

THE KLUB 17 could die, result no more innovation, community will loose interest

Did you even read your statement? You are currently doing that. In fact, why did you create this stupid thread? You should be working on creating MG2. Instead you are in a sinking ship and trying to drag everyone down with you.

[hdiddy]

2 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

They are so concern to defend KE finance, that they are missing the big picture;

THE KLUB 17 could die, result no more innovation, community will loose interest,

after all other sites will fall, including KE.

 

Without Avarteas we cannot do this, he simply ask for no more paying for content, is that to much to ask.

Since you say that there is no paywall content, so what is the problem to make it official (everything free)?

Still not sure what you are talking about defend KE finance. Are you talking about our site donations now? What do you mean "KE Finance"

 

The Klub could die? Really bro? Exaggerating much? You and Team K17 have developed the game in an undisclosed forum for years only releasing updates and the game to MG when it is done. There is nothing stopping you from still doing that. You can literally release to Discord if you wanted to.  The only people responsible for the game dying if it does is you. KE has nothing to do with game development.  We are about the modder community.

 

Anyway do what you said you are going to do and connect me to Avarteas through Alpha channel or whatever medium as using you as a conduit tends to muddle the message.

 

All the downloads in our downloads section is free.

[XxMaryxX_]

As I've stated in Discord, I'm sticking with K17 they got us this far and in all my time in this community there has never been so much drama, TK17 has always been free the team have given thousands of hours of their time for FREE, what gives anyone the right to say that their time is more valuable than the team that gives them the software they need, yes I've heard the "people have to put food on the table" argument but that goes for the team too but they decided to give their time for free.

[_K17_]

7 minutes ago, hdiddy said:

Technically if you read the statement and believe it to be true. Avarteas never mentioned KE.  And if he is talking about KE, seeing that he neither logs into this site or has a KE account he is most likely getting his "Facts" from K17.  As you can see, those so called statements tend to not be true

I didn't interpret, I talk to him about it, he made it clear he will be quitting TK17 because of you.

All this will be confirm to you directly...

[hdiddy]

1 minute ago, _K17_ said:

I didn't interpret, I talk to him about it, he made it clear he will be quitting TK17 because of you.

All this will be confirm to you directly...

Let me guess because you told him we have downloads behind a paywall? Am I right?

[_K17_]

5 minutes ago, hdiddy said:

Let me guess because you told him we have downloads behind a paywall? Am I right?

No because the community told us, we don't need to create accounts to your sites to know what is going on,

people will talk to us when they are not happy.

If you stopped deleting their posts, or calling them trolls, you will have a real feedback of the situation.

[hdiddy]

1 minute ago, _K17_ said:

No because the community told us, we don't need to create accounts to your sites to know what is going on,

people will talk to us when they are not happy.

If you stopped deleting their posts, or calling them trolls, you will have a real feedback of the situation.

Oh ok so because 3 known members who didn't like our points system decided to spread false rumors that we have all downloads behind a paywall, you simply just believe them? Ok now. I now see how you operate.