The Future of TK17 ?

[hdiddy]

Welp. If Avarteas cannot talk to us himself and chooses to relay messages based on false information from K17, can't help you there. That is on him not us.

[hdiddy]

3 minutes ago, Marburg said:

I'm sure I will be attacked just like K17 but as a junior member of team i can attest that the message from Avarteas is 100% genuine and heartfelt.

 

The choice is clear. You can ignore his message and then VX will no longer be updated.
the Dev Team agrees with him and will not even try to replace him and carry on.

 

So instead of attacking the messenger you really should be talking about what you all want to do.

 

M.

I just want to talk to him myself. Simple as that. Forgive me if I really don't trust you or K17.

[_K17_]

6 minutes ago, hdiddy said:

I just want to talk to him myself. Simple as that. Forgive me if I really don't trust you or K17.

Fair enough, things are in motion, you will have your chance.

[AbSTD]

Guys if I may give everybody my 2 cents:

 

I don't feel affiliated to any "faction" frankly, all I care about is being part of a community where people (mostly) respect each other and have the chance to share and enjoy each other's created content.

What I can tell you is that I have joined KE and my honest unbiased (as much as that is possible, but I assure I owe NO allegiance to KE creators at all beyond the personal respect that I try to give to everybody) opinion is that it's a pretty good place to be in.

You may argue that it's a bit early for me to give an informed opinion and I fully concede that, but let me say that what I found was a very chill environment where anybody can do anything that could be done on MG (of course the site is young and has a long way to go but still). I see absolutely NO trace of any "paywall" of any sort; yes, some creators decide to set a price IN POINTS for their creations, but what's wrong with it? Personally I want all my stuff to remain completely free but does anybody think it is wrong to ask for (reasonable) compensation for work? you don't even have to necessarily pay with RL money if you don't want to, all you need to do to earn points is to contribute to the community in any way you are able, according to your skill level.

 

I won't blame anybody that does not share my opinion, but to me this system is absolutely fair and even well thought out, I newly joined up and all I had to do was upload 3 models in order to be abilitated to download all the amazing free stuff that's already there if I want and I have even already earned a decent amount of points myself.

I absolutely LOVED MG and I'm truly grateful to all the people who worked hard to keep it going for so long, but I do have to admit that there were situations where some people were just benefitting from the work of others and not only didn't feel the need to participate to the community in any way, but complained and even insulted on occasion when things weren't exactly to their liking. Personally I did not give 2 shits about the fact that my models had hundreds of downloads and a couple dozens of likes\comments but I have always been sympathetic to those who worked really hard (which I didn't xD) and rightfully pointed that out. Moreover I confess that when the entitlement went overboard and the complaining\disrespect went on I felt kinda pissed off too, despite it only being a very minor problem for me personally (not so for others who constantly had to deal with that crap).

 

 

[_Haze_]

25 minutes ago, Marburg said:

I'm sure I will be attacked just like K17 but as a junior member of team i can attest that the message from Avarteas is 100% genuine and heartfelt.

 

The choice is clear. You can ignore his message and then VX will no longer be updated.
the Dev Team agrees with him and will not even try to replace him and carry on.

 

So instead of attacking the messenger you really should be talking about what you all want to do.

 

M.

Says the guy that said 3 months ago that modsgarden will soon come back online.

[hdiddy]

11 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

@Marburg, maybe I should have done that in the first place, it would have save me a lot of trouble

Thanks.

Maybe the whole screen shot next time

 

[hdiddy]

11 minutes ago, Marburg said:

and why? Have i ever done anything to make you feel that way?

One day you will know that we're not the ones making up things and spreading disinformation.

 

 

Oh so you agree with me that KE is not behind a paywall then?

[hdiddy]

17 minutes ago, AbSTD said:

Guys if I may give everybody my 2 cents:

 

I don't feel affiliated to any "faction" frankly, all I care about is being part of a community where people (mostly) respect each other and have the chance to share and enjoy each other's created content.

What I can tell you is that I have joined KE and my honest unbiased (as much as that is possible, but I assure I owe NO allegiance to KE creators at all beyond the personal respect that I try to give to everybody) opinion is that it's a pretty good place to be in.

You may argue that it's a bit early for me to give an informed opinion and I fully concede that, but let me say that what I found was a very chill environment where anybody can do anything that could be done on MG (of course the site is young and has a long way to go but still). I see absolutely NO trace of any "paywall" of any sort; yes, some creators decide to set a price IN POINTS for their creations, but what's wrong with it? Personally I want all my stuff to remain completely free but does anybody think it is wrong to ask for (reasonable) compensation for work? you don't even have to necessarily pay with RL money if you don't want to, all you need to do to earn points is to contribute to the community in any way you are able, according to your skill level.

 

I won't blame anybody that does not share my opinion, but to me this system is absolutely fair and even well thought out, I newly joined up and all I had to do was upload 3 models in order to be abilitated to download all the amazing free stuff that's already there if I want and I have even already earned a decent amount of points myself.

I absolutely LOVED MG and I'm truly grateful to all the people who worked hard to keep it going for so long, but I do have to admit that there were situations where some people were just benefitting from the work of others and not only didn't feel the need to participate to the community in any way, but complained and even insulted on occasion when things weren't exactly to their liking. Personally I did not give 2 shits about the fact that my models had hundreds of downloads and a couple dozens of likes\comments but I have always been sympathetic to those who worked really hard (which I didn't xD) and rightfully pointed that out. Moreover I confess that when the entitlement went overboard and the complaining\disrespect went on I felt kinda pissed off too, despite it only being a very minor problem for me personally (not so for others who constantly had to deal with that crap).

 

 

Thank you for this. Because you at the very least decided to check it for yourself and form your own opinions. That is all we have ever asked of folks before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunately for some that is too much to ask for.

[hdiddy]

3 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

So the Mole confirm it. Like I said since the beginning, we need to focus on the big picture, save the project, for all our sake.

Moles? What makes them a mole? Is this how you treat members?....jumping to conclusions calling them a mole. Were you not just talking about uniting a community? Geez. I know a few people in Alpha and I asked for screens since you would not provide them. Done and Done

[hdiddy]

6 minutes ago, mrwrong said:

I'm in full reverse gear here. After re-reading the message, and taking it on its own, I have to say that none of Averteas' conditions on continued involvement appear contingent on the reform of KE.  It is instead contingent on a free access replacement for MG.

 

Averteas states he will not continue with VX unless this exists. He says nothing of other websites, other than that he doesn't want a pay model to be the main point of access.  

 

Unless I have this wrong and there is a further conversation to clarify what he wants.

 

Something me and you can agree with.

[hdiddy]

1 minute ago, _K17_ said:

If he need to do a clearer statement, so be it.

Everything I said was cleared with him first.

I am more a direct person, that's all.

Honestly he should post his own statements. Where....who knows, but they should come directly from him. It's like you are his publicist or something

[hdiddy]

I should also add the issue at hand is for god knows what reason they think all content on KE is behind a paywall. which is absolutely false. If the team bothered to just take a look for themselves they will see that.  We are not the ones hiding from the truth.

[Mr_Smoke]

36 minutes ago, _K17_ said:

If he need to do a clearer statement, so be it.

Everything I said was cleared with him first.

I am more a direct person, that's all.

Me too, that is why you picked up this personal grudge against me, you did not like when I called you out for modifying my work. To trigger you, I created a patreon, and it seems to have worked. You could of ended this petty argument but you decided to continue it. Oddly enough, I thought there was some agreement that we would not create situations like this. Yet here you are, putting your grudge against the community and using it as a finally resort. 

 

Looking at avarteas post, he want a this petty argument to end and for all sides to come to a understanding. I have said that I'm willing to talk. You have made it clear, that you don't want to. In fact, I should be talking to avarteas if he has this feel towards me. As I understand, he had no issues, NOT 1 problem with me, I had no issues with him. He said that in MG and in other posts that he respects my work, and I respect him. Though I will say this, our ideology are not the same BUT he is free to believe that, and I'm free to believe what I want to believe in.

 

As mentioned, it is you that does not want me. And I said, it before and I'll say it again. I don't mind seeing around. Funny enough, you questioned LL leaders, and discord admins on why I was even made co-leader - that very fact served proofed to me that if you had it your way, you would of banned me. Either way, I'll admit this because I have balls to do it- I removed people, not for the sake of KE or me and anyone else but for the sake of the community. Just like people are tired of seeing us argue, they are also tired of seeing toxic accusation being said about this faction or that faction. Its not constructive - in fact it just dampers the mood in LL. Either way, I was shown that those folks created their lovely community TK17 FREE. Unfortunately it seems to have been shut down because they either failed to follow by LL guidelines, why should we allow the page to be shut down? If you or any of low class junior members are not gonna do anything to help and keep this club up, than I will. Hell, I'm doing it so you can announce MG 2.0.  But that itself seems to be triggering you.
 

[Mr_Smoke]

17 minutes ago, mrwrong said:

Indeed, so reading between the lines - with MG2 seemingly as far away as it has ever been, they are turning attention to KE as the best current hope.

 

My question to you then is this: will you discuss reform to its model to allow the development of the game to continue?

You should know that HDiddy gave them the option to join. In fact I was told to go to my little corner if they joined. Which I said I would do. In fact I had nor have no intentions on continuing this petty argument with K17. To put in perspective, he has said that "I'm dead to him". Oddly enough, I'm a straight male, I never thought I would have that said to me over the internet. I've only had that said to me by the psycho females and fucked with.

Either way, I said it, they said it. The option is open. But a certain individual as you saw, he has a issue with me. After I said, I'm willing to talk to fix this petty issue, but he is always saying "WE ARE DONE TALKING" or just flat out said he does not want to negotiate with me.

[hdiddy]

2 minutes ago, mrwrong said:

Just to pick you up on that: the creator was banned from LL without warning, a few hours after Oz started throwing shit at him via PM because he refused to allow him into the club. Possibly a coincidence. probably not.

Most likely not without warning as the creator liked to send me random PM's calling me the C word. That is what most likely got him kicked

[Mr_Smoke]

8 minutes ago, mrwrong said:

Just to pick you up on that: the creator's profile was banned from LL without warning, a few hours after Oz started throwing shit at him via PM because he refused to allow him into the club. Possibly a coincidence. probably not. Given it was a closed club where members needed to be approved, and he was the only manager, it could not be updated and new members could not be admitted.

He was banned because after we explained and proved his accusations were wrong, he still continue to spew the same message. We debunked his claims. And he still continued to post non-constructive posts.

 

Like I said, he can hate KE than help improve the situation in LL. But that is not the case.

[hdiddy]

To add on to what Smoke said we have not closed the door on Team K17, even when both sides agreed to have 2 separate sites. We created a separate walled off section for the Dev tea, similar to Alpha channel, and created a completely separate group called "Team K17" to signify the Dev team. We provided the same treatment to Pervoketer giving him "Hook 5 Dev" role when he joined.

 

So even with all the insults and falsehoods that get thrown at us, we have never closed that door. Now does that mean you come in and we give you the keys to the place? Not really.

[hdiddy]

Well Avarteas basically said no go until MG 2.0.

 

So I'm not sure what the issue is. Because K17 said they will have MG 2.0 ready in January.  So what exactly is the problem? What is KE's involvement here?

[Mr_Smoke]

5 minutes ago, mrwrong said:

He was banned after creating the free club. I don't think he was even a member of this one.

Well that explains it, we had no power in that. But the fact that people are still crying censorship and blaming us. That is funny. At the end, LL moderators and Admin has that power. Not me and anyone else in this club.

 

The fact is this, a false narrative is being said and other team leaders are letting it spread and get to a critical level just to shift blame on Me, HDiddy or Oz. Either way. This thread was pointless. Oddly enough, you don't see me, HDiddy or Oz creating post and putting a ultimatum on a petty argument. 

[hdiddy]

The most important statement that matters from Avarteas is the following:

 

Quote

I not continue working on TK17 until we have an official modsgarden replacement without paywalled content.

 

Now who is responsible for making that happen?

 

Quote

That said, if it's the case, there is a chance it can be reactivated and, more importantly, data restored.

That is one of the reason why we were not in a rush of starting a new site.

But now we will, with the option that the Garden could come back.

We will do this in 2 phases, first we will have a temporary site that we will use until January,

if by then the Garden comes back online we'll transfer the data to it.

If not, then we will create a permanent site and transfer the data from the temporary site to it.

 

If by Miracle we get our hands on the original Garden data (Morotaika made backup) after 2020,

we will transfer all content to the new permanent site.

Once we have more info, we will define what we mean by temporary/permanent site.

Hope that this explanation helps a little.

Thank you.

 

Well looks to me Team K17 is responsible.

 

So I will ask the question again. What happened to the site the team was planning to launch back when this message was posted?

[EJAX]

 

6 hours ago, hdiddy said:

Is it really slipping away? Or is this more so your control over the community is slipping away?

Who's in charge of putting out version q? That's the "team" I consider relevant.

[Joaku]

What exactly is the problem here? Get people together who are willing to help out with the domain bills, set up something similar to the Gardens layout (just for the sake of familiarity), and off we go? Seems simple enough. 

[hdiddy]

1 minute ago, Joaku said:

What exactly is the problem here? Get people together who are willing to help out with the domain bills, set up something similar to the Gardens layout (just for the sake of familiarity), and off we go? Seems simple enough. 

Exactly.

[gregathit]

Knock off the personal insults.  LL rules specifically prohibit this:  https://www.loverslab.com/guidelines/

[EJAX]

27 minutes ago, Joaku said:

What exactly is the problem here? Get people together who are willing to help out with the domain bills, set up something similar to the Gardens layout (just for the sake of familiarity), and off we go? Seems simple enough. 

Getting an address isn't the problem. It's getting one you can keep.